Yeah, fuck those Oklahomans! Those idiots deserve to suffer and struggle.
That’s not the message to take from this.
Oh? What is?
That they keep voting for people who “love the working class” and who “have great economic policy” but every classically Republican state is a fucking shithole that constantly needs money from blue states to stay barely afloat.
It’s yet more evidence that the GOP don’t have any interest and/or ability to properly run a country. All their ideas fucking suck and everything they touch is worse for it, and their base needs to realize this. Also educated or not it’s so insanely obvious these days just how bad shit is and whose at fault but us North Americans(I’m Canadian, same problems here but more boring) can’t stop but chase the right when the center falters. At this point people should be mocked, this shit’s inexcusable in ways it wasn’t as much even only 10-15 years ago.
At this point people should be mocked…
That’s what I did.
Mocked, yes, but saying they deserve to suffer…I dunno honestly yea I kinda agree but I’m trying to take something more productive from the data.
Mocked, yes, but saying they deserve to suffer…
Well, is it not true?
Do you think it’s true?
That the states that consistently vote Republican are also consistently among the states with the worst quality of life, and that there’s a correlation between the two.
That Republicans don’t actually care about Americans.
You reap what you sow.
Some might say that makes you deserving of it, and others might disagree. But the apparent causal relationship exists outside of moral judgments.
That red states are shittier than blue states. An objectively true fact.
Even other red states say this shit about redder states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thank_God_for_Mississippi
I know. How does that make my comment wrong?
We generally don’t hate people from red states, I’m in Oregon. We see them like a kid that won’t stop touching a hot stove. It’s more a disappointment than a “fuck em”.
Like maybe they are just stupid?
Why you have to call them stupid?
Gestures broadly
Maybe. How many times does a kid have to burn himself on a hot stove before we accept that he’s just stupid and a lost cause?
Never. But we can still be disappointed. Not everyone in red states sucks, the majority of them seem to though.
Apparently you’ve never had people tell you that you don’t matter because you’re from a red state. I’m trans, stuck in a red state, and get to have people tell me I deserve what the state is doing to me and my trans siblings because we were born here.
Obviously Texas wouldn’t be so red if we would just vote for Democrats, right? Therefore, we must be part of the problem! As long as one person votes blue then that cancels out all the red votes so we really have no one to blame but ourselves!
I voted blue. Fuck you.
Could you share more about your trans siblings? I had understood that being transgender was relatively uncommon, and I realize there may be genetic or other factors involved. It’s new to me that multiple members of a family might identify this way, and I’d love to learn more if you’re open to sharing. Thanks!
Individual responsibility, bootstraps, etc.
Apparently you’ve never had people tell you that you don’t matter because you’re from a red state. I’m trans, stuck in a red state, and get to have people tell me I deserve what the state is doing to me and my trans siblings because we were born here.
Girl, that is absolutely bullshit, I am so sorry to hear that. I have family in both Alberta and Saskatchewan (Canada’s blindly right-wing provinces) and it is brutal if you’re not white, male, and hetero. Even moreso if you’re visually not one of those things, and you’re in a rural area.
One of my kids is trans, and we’re about to get a Con federal government, so we’re pretty worried for her. Who knows what care will be removed when Canada’s Trump Loving Party takes over (the Conservatives are looking like they’ll get a majority).
(For anyone who doesn’t know our parties, that’s the Federal Liberal Party (Centre/Centre-Left Wing), Conservative Party of Canada (Right Wing), New Democratic Party (Centre-Left/Left Wing), Bloc Québécois (far tougher to describe. They swing from Right to Left Wing.)
That red states vote against their own interests. They have massive needs and lag on many wellness metrics, yet consistently vote for politicians who are happy to keep them that way via the policy they enact
Exactly. They’re idiots and they deserve what they get.
Man you seem pretty happy about it, almost like you want your country to suffer.
Every Oklahoman I have ever met would agree with this statement unironically
Blue-voting Oklahoman here!
…yepI feel called out.
I dont want my blue friends to suffer, but yeah i deserve to suffer for being born here.
I can’t believe they would vote for a different candidate after suffering under the current candidate! FOOOLSS!!!
Sadly Mass is also close to #1 in terms of cost of living.
I like it here but I don’t like what it costs.
I have also thought that before I moved from Mass to Oregon. Just my experience of course, but my state taxes increases 2x and everything seemed to be more expensive.
I moved from CA to NC and the taxes were absolutely worse.
EDIT: They were, I even had a check that was half in one state and half in another, and guess what? The CA check was bigger.
Education, healthcare and quality of life aren’t cheap. Want cheap? Go to Oklahoma.
How is Massachusetts being outrageously expensive not diametrically opposed to “quality of life”? The average person can’t get ahead in Massachusetts which is why they are leaving to go elsewhere.
Oh no! #1 in cost of living and #1 in quality if life? And among the lowest poverty?
Do people really just need social support to thrive? No way! It’s gotta be stuff! Cheap stuff! That’s what life’s all about!
Pretty easy to have high quality of life and low poverty if all the poor people leave because there priced out.
if all the poor people leave because there priced out.
What an utterly bizarre take.
You got a better explanation? People are leaving Massachusetts and the cost of living is high . The most likely reason is that poorer people who can’t afford to live there any more are leaving. Otherwise why would you leave a state with such a high quality of life?
The people leaving largely aren’t the poor, though. They’re the middle and upper class looking for lower taxes. They’re leaving because the high quality of life there benefits those with less money disproportionately compared to those with more money; public transport and good public schools matter less to the wealthy than to the poor.
Bingo
What’s the wealth inequality metric for them?
Not the worst but top 10 in inequality
Also with the high cost of living most of the poor move out so that would make it seem lower then if you look at the inequality to the neighboring states where people may move to or the u.s. as a whole. Probably harder to find but it would be interesting to see inequality among people born in Massachusetts, including those who left. Would be interesting to see if there system is actually creating successful people, or if they’re just kicking out unsuccessful people and attracting already successful people from other states.
Well, all it does is drive up the cost for the working class who live there who are then forced to move out.
If you were born there, that does indeed suck. If you bought your way in there, it’s a win. If you were born there and can afford to keep living there, also a win
No arguments from me, that’s why I don’t want to live anywhere else.
It does sting a bit to be stuck living with high rent in an apartment when my income would allow me to buy a decent house in another part of the country. But then I likely wouldn’t have this income in other parts of the country, either.
When I moved back to the US from China, I immediately had health insurance thanks to Masshealth. Helped me have peace of mind while I was searching for a job back here. And now I get to work for an organization that helps other people land on their feet when big life changes happen, which is easier to do here than elsewhere.
It’s pretty difficult to find anywhere in the US currently that has good jobs, good entertainment and restaurants, access to healthcare, good schools, and isn’t expensive. Sure, you can get a house cheaper in rural Kansas or something but then you have to live in rural Kansas.
Very well said. I live in the other state from the meme and I’m broke af. I could be living in a better state and still be broke af but getting things from my taxes rather than them being used to put Bibles in schools.
This doesn’t really tell the fully story, 1/3 of MA’s pop. Still voted for Trump…
First in education, clearly that means education makes you lib’ral, and gay! And trans!
Massachusetts is fucked. Only a good place to live if your very well off or a career welfare recipient.
Go back to your kapusta.
Am I supposed to know wtf that is?
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Another way to view this is that the poor are voting republican now. Trump won those making less than $100,000 handedly while Harris won those making above. Probably because he’s offering them a solution to there problems, deport the immigrants and bring manufacturing back. His plan is dumb and won’t work but at least he’s putting something forward unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same.
The democrats are slowly becoming the party of the out of touch elite, and memes like this don’t help. The democrats need to be putting forward solutions to those problems, and trump has shown it doesn’t matter if they’re viable or will actually help. If these “dumb poor people are rubes who will fall for anything” give them something to fall for. Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
Probably because he’s offering them a solution to there problems, deport the immigrants and bring manufacturing back. His plan is dumb and won’t work but at least he’s putting something forward unlike Harris who says everything will stay the same.
This is exactly what I was pointing out to my friends. Every one of us are making six figures, and could not understand why anybody would vote Trump.
And I asked them how many people in their lives are poor, living paycheck to paycheck. I have family members who are working two or three jobs to get by. All the work Biden did is not being seen or recognized by them.
Are they are under-educated yokels? Are they morons for not keeping up with politics? You can call them what ever you want. Theyre still a voter.
Face it: what they’re hearing from Democrats vs what they’re hearing from Trump are pretty clear cut and we can stay in this echo chamber all we want on Lemmy. Those folks aren’t listening to us. They’re just trying to survive and will vote accordingly.
Six figures? Lucky you.
The Democrats must be doing something right, if their states have better everything.
Maybe if the Republicans would listen to us, we could all have the best schools and hospitals.
They don’t have better retention rates.
CA, NY, IL and MA are all in the top 5 for states that have the most people leaving.
TX, FL, NC and AZ are attracting the most people.
Massachusetts has priced out average people. If you aren’t the inheritor of some generational wealth you have a better chance of being upwardly mobile elsewhere.
This is due to rent gouging, not democrats.
You can’t blame “rent gouging” without blaming the government for condoning it and setting up the conditions that encourage it.
The cost of living in blue states is absolutely due to city/state level Democrats. Democrats write the zoning laws. Democrats decide the tax laws. Democrats build the infrastructure and public transportation. Democrats also vote down rent control and affordable housing requirements.
Red states are controlled by rich Republicans. Blue states are controlled by rich Democrats. Sure, Republican rule makes Oklahoma the shit hole that it is. But don’t try to give Democrats a pass for making Massachusetts as expensive as it is.
No, it’s from rental agencies that do as they please out of greed. They don’t condition anything, they just don’t do anything about it.
they just don’t do anything about it.
Even after ignoring everything I said, you still admit I’m right. If the local government doesn’t do anything about it, who is supposed to?
That really has mostly to do with the high cost of living. And it’s going to be high in an area inhabited by businesses on the cutting edge of technology. Those jobs have high wages because they need highly educated people, and highly educated people come from the best universities in the country, many of which are in Boston, and Cambridge. Not to mention the great schools in commuter range in Providence and Worcester.
Red states don’t have higher education, and they don’t have innovative industry, so they don’t have the population density issues that blue states have.
Maybe if red states had these things, they’d have a high cost of living, too.
Most of the people fleeing MA for those states are working remotely for their companies still in MA. Mostly DINKS and young (primarily male) single professionals that don’t really have public education or healthcare as any sort of immediate concern. That’s gonna lead to problems when the average age of red state populations inverts itself. Better make sure that they can’t not have babies.
And yet. Manufacturing was down under trump in 2016 even before covid hit and under Biden manufacturing is the highest it’s been in decades.
So according to you it’s worse to acknowledge we can’t go back in time than to lie to people and promise that which we (in the 3rd party pov sense, meaning NYC republicans) actively subvert every day? One would have to be exceptionally stupid and stubbornly uninformed to believe this is reasonable.
he also proposed nuking a hurricane…
but yes, democratic leaders have left us, so it’s easy to say both sides are corrupt, especially as long as insider trading and conflicts of interest are OK to them.
Say your going to tax the billionaires at 50% and use that money to pay for Healthcare and child care, don’t cozy up to them so you can raise another billion dollars to lose another election .
That was basically Harris’ tax plan.
What Would Kamala Harris’s Tax Plans Mean For You? | Kiplinger - https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/kamala-harriss-tax-plans-2024
It doesn’t matter what your platform is if it’s not communicated effectively to the median voter
How do you communicate effectively to someone with their fingers in their ears screaming nananananananana? Please advise, oh political oracle.
Trump seemed to get through.
Democrats are forbidden by their patrons from using too much populist rhetoric. That’s the number one reason why they fail to connect with what has become a very populist country, thanks to decades of wealth transfer to the top.
Bernie used populist language and the Democratic establishment pulled out all the stops to give us “anybody but Bernie”. Now we are living the consequences.
What’s neat is that you appear to have internalized the conservative view of the Democratic machine in this country. They are completely incompetent…but also such shadowy and powerful figures they control what everyone says and does and control who votes for who…except when it comes to republicans who these scary shadowy figures are unable to competently manipulate ever…
Ah yes, now that you made fun of the prior commenter, we have convinced the world and now Kamala is president?
Bernie is fucking right.
?
You lumped a huge percentage of people as putting their fingers in their ears.
Maga is going to vote maga. And there’s a huge chunk that didn’t vote or were surprised Biden dropped out. Those folks didn’t put their fingers in their ears. Like Bernie said, they were ignored.
People who were surprised 5 months after Biden dropped out didn’t have their fingers in their ears in your version of the world? I think you and I mean very different things by that phrase.
With all the fucking TV ads and mailers the campaign spent billions on. If the average voters is just covering there ears then why spend so much on advertising or why even campaign at all? Yeah some people are like that but they’re deep in the maga cult, there’s still a large amount of people open to both sides if the messaging is right that decided this election. Harris’ messaging didn’t work though.
I mean the marketing was effective. A lot of people including Donald trump thought he was going to lose. Just not effective at getting people who support Biden to get off their ass.
You go on Joe Rogan for one. Kamala ran the last presidential campaign that will ever rely so heavily on the legacy media apparatus. This whole cycle proved that they are only broadcasting to themselves and real people are elsewhere on podcasts, twitter and YT.
She did go on Call Her Daddy.
Who do you think the people putting their fingers in their ears are, in this case?
Check out leopards eating faces for the next few years…those people, whether it’s moms surprised the education department is again going to punish their kids, Muslims surprised trump hates Muslims and wants them eradicated, EV company owners who think being allowed to support means being part of the narcissists inner circle, Latinos shocked that their friends or family members there illegally won’t get special protections no matter how many times McCarthy rears his head.
“EV company owners” aside, most voters in this country just want something to change, and they’ll vote for whoever promises the most of it. Harris’ campaign didn’t do anything nor promise anything that resonated, and practically everything she said ended up morphing into her highly-rehearsed stump speech. No talks about Medicare for All, no talks about the minimum wage, no talks about legalizing weed, and kowtowing to the right on border policy by accepting the ‘crisis’ framing. Harris also failed to address the situation in Gaza in a way that mattered, even though it was a major issue for undecided voters in key states like Michigan. Over 100,000 Democratic primary voters there cast an uncommitted vote over Biden’s handling of Israel and Gaza, which is more than the margin by which she lost the state.
The right took advantage of this. An EV company owner paid a PAC to distribute ostensibly pro-Harris pamphlets in predominantly Arab neighborhoods in Michigan saying she was the most pro-Israel candidate on the ballot. The right helped put abortion rights directly on the state ballots as propositions, letting people believe the choice could be separated from who they voted for (see Florida, where the proposition lost at 57% support when the state voted roughly the same percentage for ol Don).
Harris had a potential base on the progressive left, but the DNC insisted on tweaking her campaign to try to win over right-moderates. That doesn’t work anymore, precisely for the “sticking fingers in ears” attitude you mentioned from right-wing voters. It’s asinine for the DNC to continue to try and appeal to them, when the median Republican voter thinks Democrats are agents of a satanic agenda. Regardless, the message the DNC seems to have gotten from Nov 5 was that they lost this election because they failed to move to the right hard enough. The ratchet effect continues.
As a side note, I know several trumpets who would’ve voted for Sanders in 2016 were he the Democratic nominee, and would’ve voted for Walz even this election were he the main guy on the 2024 presidential ticket. Such people are not very coherent ideologically, they just want someone in who has big ideas.
Unfortunately, it’s just not enough to be “not the other guy”, even if the other guy is a convicted felon, rapist, and just all-around a downright awful human being.
edit: grammar and wording in a couple spots
Now, I have to hope our state Gov’t can do everything possible to keep up the laws and quality to protect us.
And the people of both states will continues to be ordered like this irregardless of which party is in power. Funny, huh?
I crisscrossed Oklahoma on one of my cross-country trips, the state absolutely sucks and they even know it that’s why you can legally drive like 80mph through the whole thing.
Kansas also sucks but khp uses the highway as a way to punish people with the wrong license plates. A majority of traffic stops in Kansas were of out of state drivers as recently as a few years ago.
Maybe they voted against the incumbent so overwhelmingly because things are hard.
People vote based on their feelings.
When they were feeling pain, the message from the Dems was about how great the economy was, but the reality is that the stock market and GDP don’t speak to the quality of life of these people. To them the Dems saying how great things were was dismissive of their real concerns.
Meanwhile, Trump latched onto their fears and concerns. Yeah, his policies are idiotic, and millions will suffer and be in worse shape. But when they said they couldn’t pay the mortgage or buy groceries, he listened. The Democrats didn’t because they’ve abandoned the working class that should be their backbone.
Maybe they voted against the incumbent
I wouldn’t be so confident about assigning such motivation.
Sounds like making an avg citizen feel heard was the Trump card
So wait, the poor and the hopeless, looking for some kind of help, voted unanimously for TRUMP, and those happy with their current conditions and wanting no change voted for Harris.
The maps were identical in 2020 (following a republican administration):
And 2008 (following a republican administration):
Once you get back to pre-social media era internet, you begin to see Oklahoma have shades of blue.
Perhaps we could collaborate on this.
Now that I have pulled Oklahoma’s electoral results going back to 1988, now you can pull Oklahoma’s education results going back over the same period of time and we can see if there is, in fact, a correlation between the quality of education (overall education rankings) and how the state votes in presidential elections.
I suspect that it was not purely the quality of education which influenced the “red shift”. I would bet that the lower-quality of education made the influence of social media more effective for those targeting the less educated to adopt a conservative political position.
Just share your findings here and we can work together.
Well done. I’ll leave my response up, but I’ll admit that the Massachusetts/Oklahoma example is a bad one to make the case that Trump was the populist in this election and Harris was a vote for the conservative “no change” position.
Ah yes, of course, Kamala was the more conservative option in the last election. Donald Trump is also an actual populist that cares about you. You are very smart. /s
Yes, I believe that was actually true. Look at him, slashing and burning his way through cabinet appointments.
She was definitely the more conservative choice. It’s ok that I’m not smart.
I like how you put “trump” in all-caps bold to help us better recognize that you are on TEAM RAPIST.
Also, the state that always votes blue is happy with their situation, and the state that always votes red is begging for change. You really can’t figure out how each state got into their respective positions?
Perhaps the state that wants change should try voting for someone other than a Republican every single election.
Just because the person you are replying to has a different opinion about how people vote, doesn’t mean they are a trump supporter.
I don’t think this person is your enemy.
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They never said they voted for him. They pointed out that the living conditions in the red state are worse, and the chose to vote for Trump. Presumably under some kind of belief that he will ameliorate those conditions.
Before you tell me he won’t, I know that he won’t. They don’t know that though. And they have gigantic right wing echo chambers telling them all about how he will.
You think a rich nepo baby wants to help working class Americans instead of himself and his rich friends? LOL
I don’t, but a large chunk of america does. I think that speaks a lot to the democrats messaging.
The world’s richest man is helping a billionaire get elected and that’s not one of your main points to voters? No but Harris can’t attack billionaires because that’ll anger all the ones on her side.
I see the ones under republican state leadership, clamoring for change, yet in reality voting for the same assholes that govern them into the ground? Not sure how you’re not seeing that, though I imagine it’s willful
theres a reason education goes out the windows in red states… otherwise they might understand theyre voting against their own best interests.
its a priority to keep them stupid to stay red
it is. racism and hate go a long ways.
Conservative =/= Status quo
Conservative = Regressive
this might just be the dumbest thing i’ve ever read
maybe youre just completely unfamiliar with the word “conservative”. those red states dont want change. they want to conserve their regressive stance.
I think it’s pretty clear that the current Republican party is fundamentally different than the one of 15 years ago. Whether they consider themselves conservative or not, they are the party that is promising change from the status quo.
The parties have clearly changed roles with respect to manual laborers. The blue wall doesn’t exist anymore because of this. What it all means, I have no idea, but we need to update our mental model of the two parties. Their demographic have fundamentally changed.
Way to tell on yourself about your lack of education.
The states that consistently vote Republican are also consistently amongst the worst states for quality of life. There’s a correlation there.
They also consistently take more money from the federal government than they provide.
Oklahoma has voted for Republican presidential candidates all but once since 1952 (in 1964), with the Democratic candidate having failed to pick up a single county in the state in all elections since 2004
History. What you obviously weren’t taught.
You must be from Oklahoma.
One state has consistently voted for democrats and one consistently votes for leopards. It isn’t really surprising that the state consistently putting leopards in power is unhappy with their current situation.
You know, folks are giving you a lot of unnecessary shit for this comment. And I get that when viewed with sufficient context and cultural awareness of American politics, the meme clearly implies at least a correlation between voting blue and an improved quality of life. (edit: which mind you I do believe exists, at least in so far as it compares to voting red)
But I also saw it and thought, “this meme could easily be interpreted by MAGA cultists to justify their vote for Trump”. They would of course be wrong, but with the isolated set of data provided by the meme, it really doesn’t only imply what it thinks it implies.
It’s necessary.
If their comment wasn’t smartass idiotic, maybe not.
I dunno, I have a hard time being mad at Inigo Montoya.
He was at least handsome and with a purpose in life.
I think we are interpreting this correlation in two different ways.
The demon buer sees it as:
bad living standards → vote republican
(because in this election the selling point of the republicans was the economy(/+immigration (because they also partly blame immigrants for the economic problems)), while for the democrats it was the the “protection of democracy” (which isn’t really the biggest concern of someone struggling to pay their bills (or also not desired if that democracy got them to where they are now)))
others are seeing it as
vote republican → bad living standards
(because if republicans are no good, and if a state has been consistently voting republican in the last years of the state’s local elections, then the state also won’t be no good)
(the arrow means “causes”)
(not directly directed at anyone, besides everyone who reads this post: ) Just because there’s a correlation, we can’t say in which direction the causation goes, if there is one.
Oklahoma has much bigger numbers in the rankings there. USA! USA!
Massachusetts is also 4th in the country for states with the most people leaving to live elsewhere.
No doubt due to cost of living because Massachusetts is ridiculously expensive. The friends I have there are either leaving or totally resigned to not owning a house or ever retiring. Comparing a historically important coastal population center to a historically poor and strategically insignificant flyover state doesn’t prove much.
The states with highest domestic emigration (e.g. people voting with their feet to leave) are overwhelmingly left leaning. (Except for Louisiana and Ohio)
strategically insignificant flyover state
Cushing, OK has a bone to pick with this.
Assuming that is a missile silo or something in which case I stand corrected on that front!
Major petroleum marketplace. The commodity trading floor is in a big city somewhere else. But a lot of the oil actually changes hands in our around Cushing.
Gotcha. FWIW I have no bone to pick with Oklahoma at all. If anything the fact that people criticize it for being a backwater probably means that it’s awesome.
As an Ohioan that tracks. We’d long been the poor person’s progressive state but yeah I’m ditching to go somewhere I’m safe, even though it sucks to leave somewhere affordable
So progressive places make a place so desirable to live in that people are willing to compete with each other for the experience.
“Why are blue states always so expensive?!”. It’s supply and demand. High demand to live someplace makes it expensive.
My million dollar house is worth as much as it is because of its located near high paying jobs, good school, and good neighbors. It’s expensive to live where I live because lots of people want to live here.
There’s higher demand to live in Florida and Texas. Look at the domestic immigration numbers. People are leaving CA, NY, IL and MA in droves.
Yeah, but it’s supply and demand. I bet your million dollar home isn’t next to an apartment building. Cities would be much cheaper if it weren’t for NIMBYs who already own homes insisting that their homes must appreciate in value at all times.
How is people leaving almost exclusively “progressive” places an indicator of competition?
Look at the inverse of that chart. Most people in the country are moving to places like Florida, Texas and Idaho.
Because shitty makes for cheap.
How is this confusing?
Some states need to lose their right to self govern
Post civil war, the USA should have imposed rules that enforced integration.
They didn’t have the will, and now we reap the consequences as a nation, to have the south still stuck in the moral degradation that comes with dehumanizing a portion of our population to the point of enslavement.
I’ve recently been imagining separating the countries of the US, or as Americans like to call them; the states.
