i can’t even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.
edit: well they’re not quiet now once they get called out
Real Talk, I’m getting real tired of everyone from the vaguely right of center to the farthest reaches of the left getting involved in this shit slinging blame game.
I legit don’t care anymore who you voted for (edit: so long as it wasn’t Trump I mean. But even then, time to start your redemption arc if you did). We are past the election and now all share the same immediate issues.
Folks who abstained from voting (or voted 3rd party) because you couldn’t stomach the lesser of two evils, good news, that choice is gone. You can stop parroting the idea that anyone who voted Blue did so “in support of genocide”. It should be clear by now those who voted Blue really were just doing their best in a bad situation, they are not your enemies.
Folks who voted Blue because you believe supporting the lesser evil is in service of the greater good. Good news, that burden is also gone. You can stop parroting the idea that someone who can’t stomach voting for people who would play politics with genocide is really just a tankie or a bot. Not every one is willing to play game theory with people’s lives, that doesn’t mean they are your enemies.
Anyone who truly wants to push for solidarity and human rights for all is an ally of mine. And I propose we bury the hatchet, preferably in the objectives of fascists, before its too late.
I think it is important to point out the failings of others. Otherwise they may not connect the dots and learn from their mistakes.
Sometimes a mistake is innocent, say you forgot to zip up your fly. It’s important to know you forgot to do so as it could be very socially embarrassing.
Sometimes one could accidentally cut someone off in traffic because they didn’t see them. A good honk notifies them of their mistake and will hopefully drive home the fact that they probably need to pay better attention to traffic.
Pointing out that abstaining and or choosing not to vote enabled the election of the greater of two evils is equally important.
Rock on OP. Never let them forget!
Then point at the FAILED DEMOCRAT PARTY instead of voters. When biden announced he was running for re-election their own internal polling showed he’d lose. They don’t fucking care, it’s all theatre to them. Their corporate owners are happy and the donations continue to flow in from foolish rubes like you who will gladly vote blue no matter who right off a fucking cliff.
Kamala Harris spent a billion dollars and still fucking lost. But yeah go blame voters that will ensure the same thing happens in 2028 should we be so lucky to pretend to play democracy again. And it is pretend. Because if you don’t vote correctly you’re the worst person to ever exist.
If that delusion makes feel better about enabling a facist, then you probably aren’t ready to come to terms with your failure.
Sooner or later, one way or another, it will come for you.
Continue losing elections.
If Dems continue loosing elections they will definitely come for you.
Maybe the dems who claim to be my ally should consider that when holding unpopular positions that don’t get them elected. They don’t care.
Cool, I can’t wait to see what this Republican President does for whatever position it is you care about.
I hope Trump goes HARD!
I’ve been repeating this thought exercise because people seem to have a hard time delineating when blame goes the other way.
Bob is standing next to a bomb, and a fuse is sparking down. Jill, on the other side of a fence and reliant on Bob, lifts a huge very expensive sign for Bob to stamp out the fuse. Bob does not stamp out the fuse, bomb goes off.
Who is at fault; Bob for not stamping out the fuse, or Jill for not getting a high-amp bullhorn to inform Bob he should stamp the fuse?
Feel free to vary the analogy, but the question would extend to: When does it become Bob’s fault that he didn’t take action?
It remains the democrats fault for:
• gaslighting the public about inflation
• gaslighting the public about not one but two new wars including a genocide!
• refusing to run a small D democratic primary that they didn’t rig since checks notes 2004 (they tried to rig 2008 for Hillary but failed because Obama was so charismatic they couldn’t stop him)
• refusing to run a primary at all in 2024, despite biden promising when elected in 2020 to be a one term president, and his own polling showed he’d lose in 2024
• last minute Hail Mary of replacing biden with Harris despite not a single vote being cast for her
• no platform other than “we’re not trump! Elect an anti-democratic party to save democracy! Trumps the next hitler!!!”
• didn’t bother campaigning in swing states just like Hillary in 2016
Gee I wonder why they lost the election. Couldn’t be that they continuously gaslight the public. Couldn’t be that they didn’t hold a primary (sorry but RFK Jr vanity run is not a primary). No, no. Voters just voted wrong!
But don’t worry! We have to save dEmOcRaCy! Let’s just roll over and hand the power over to trump because he won fair and square and optics and politeness are more important than saving the country! You see, the democrat party doesn’t actually give a shit, if they were serious, they would have their own January 6th. They’re not serious. They’re gonna fundraise off of it. Just like roe v Wade!
no platform other than “we’re not trump! Elect an anti-democratic party to save democracy! Trumps the next hitler!!!
Yeah? Why do you need a platform beyond this?
It was a competent former prosecutor vs a serially lying violent felon.
Why do you need a platform beyond this?
They shouldn’t have even include the democracy angle in their campaign. You cannot run on “Trump is a threat to democracy,” when you own administration has completely failed to put the man behind bars.
Imagine the insanity if Trump, in 2020, had ran on a campaign of taxes being too low, after he had just slashed them. That is the level of idiocy the Harris campaign was trying to run on.
You had four years to put the guy behind bars. You don’t get to then point to him as a threat to democracy, since you yourself clearly do not consider him to be a threat to democracy.
Actions. Speak. Louder. Than. Words.
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‘But Trump’ got you Trump twice. At this point you’re arguing against the concrete proof that your view WON’T WORK to justify blaming people that tried to save you from yourself.
You, in this case, is the DNC and everyone else blaming voters for the failure of the DNC.
Jill set and lit the bomb, and lifts up a big expensive sign saying that defusing bombs is antisemitic and what Putin wants. Bob tries as hard as he can to put out the bomb anyway, but Jill made sure to design it such that Bob can’t defuse it. So, once it’s clear his efforts are futile, Bob runs as fast as he can away from Jill and the bomb, and the bomb blows up.
When does it become Jill’s fault that she did actively take harmful actions?
They’re easy targets. Blame the abstainers and third party voters and you don’t have to confront the legitimate failures of your party and campaign.
Why not both?
Because it’s not a useful strategy. Convince them they’re wrong and they’ll shame themselves.
Nobody has denied that there are problems in the dnc, but the fault is still largely on the voters.
Nobody has denied there are problems with me, but the fault is still largely on women.
You’re in denial. Enjoy your drinks in the Cheney bar.
That’s very true, and we see it election cycle after election cycle. But for many who voted Blue, the Dem’s are not “their party”. They were playing the best hand they were dealt in a terrible situation. And while I get feeling sick to your stomach over playing that hand when the chips are peoples lives, I also get the cold calculus some people are willing to make for the greater good.
Frankly, Abstainers and Lesser Of Two Evil Voters have been, imho, radicalized against each other due to the contentious nature of the election. I don’t believe the camps were so separate a year ago.
If we all want to keep dying on this hill, well we certainly can and will. But I’ve talked to folks on both sides, and they largely want the same outcomes. Even if we all didn’t agree on the solution.
The election proved that divided we are not a larger group than the fascist collation in this country. But I’m willing to be combined we are.
And we don’t have to argue over the election anymore, so unless we want to find another hill to die on, I once again propose we agree with pushing towards are shared goals.
These hills are all they’re going to let us have. We’ll keep eating our own in the same valley every four years.
On this platform specifically we’ve had months of smug people claiming to make the moral choice of directly or indirectly supporting the clearly worse choice. It’s far too early to just let that slide.
If we in 100 years still sometimes talk about the early days of the fediverse where a bunch of morons fell for astroturfing, that’s kind of a good outcome.
If they’re real people they should feel bad.
For the not so real people, we should figure out how a distibuted system can deal with a concerted astroturfing operation.
This might actually be the single best comment in this thread.
I’d rather keep up the blame game, ngl. Arguments didn’t work on the disingenuous pricks who helped get us here. I don’t care if they personally made a difference or not, I care that they were utterly unreasonable, and the change in circumstances won’t change that.
Speaking to anyone who could’ve voted for Kamala but didn’t: I don’t care about solidarity anymore; you didn’t have solidarity with us when we needed you. Y’all are fucking stupid and I don’t want to deal with that. I realize that’s not the moral choice, but RN for the first time in over a decade I don’t care about that. I’m angry. Maybe in a few more days or weeks or months that will change, maybe not. Right now I’m focusing on making sure all my remaining friends are able to get somewhere safe if the need arises and keep hope kindled in their hearts. Maybe that means other people who need my help more will suffer, die, or fall victim to their own despair, but I just don’t have the wherewithal to make that my priority.
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> is subjected to any criticism what so ever
> instantly falls into elaborate fantasy
> shares fantasy with the public, for some reason
> believes own fantasy, thinks others are insane
> publicly and loudly tells people “I’m ignoring you”
Seems about right.
Time is linear. The Democratic party backed a genocide BEFORE the election.
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“Because of the likes of you” I’m gonna need you to explain that one.
Sounds like you have your hands full dealing with getting you and yours to safety. Good luck, I wish you all the best in that endeavor!
I can’t blame you for being angry, but just try not to let that anger turn you into the thing you are angry at. Someone who stands idly by when someone needs help you could provide.
I don’t care about solidarity anymore
Never did. Solidarity means you aren’t willing to sacrifice marginalized groups to get ahead or save your own skin. If you accept sacrificing Palestinians, you’d accept sacrificing any other group by the exact same “lesser-evilist” logic. What value does that kind of “solidarity” have?
To be fair, for many the choice to save or sacrifice Palestine never felt like it was on the table. For those people, the choice was between making a deal with the devil to save as many marginalized groups as possible, or sacrificing said marginalized groups to keep their “hands clean”.
I believe both sides of this argument felt like they were pushing for solidarity the best way they knew how. And due to the emotionally charged nature of this choice, we wound up losing all solidarity ironically.
If you truly believe in solidarity, then try to see the human on the other side of the screen and be the first to reach out and mend the cracks.
Here’s the thing. I’m trans. On our own, we represent a tiny sliver of the voting public, not worth considering from a strategic standpoint. But there are plenty of other groups of people in the same boat. Together, we are worth considering - but only together. “What force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?” If we try to build a coalition in which we abandon any group that the democratic politicians deem too much of a liability to be worth protecting, that is no coalition at all, and I well understand that after Palestinians, I will be next. The very same logic that these people were willing to deploy against them can and will be deployed to justify abandoning me and mine.
What advantage do I gain from joining together in a “coalition” in “solidarity” with these fair-weather friends who will drop us at the first sign of trouble? Honestly, they are more of a liability than an asset, because if I’m buddying up with them, it damages my credibility among potentially more reliable people who have good reason not to trust them. I would rather do it the right way and build trust even if it means building from the ground up.
I appreciate what you’re trying to do, but these disagreements are meaningful and important. This election may be over, but the question remains of what the appropriate strategy is going forward, whether to build a coalition that will treat an offense against one as an offense against all, and ensure that anyone who comes for any part of it is unelectable, or whether to “vote blue no matter who” as we are picked off one-by-one, in exchange for temporary, short term security for some.
I get your points and they are well taken. Just be careful not to swing at ghosts so hard that you hit those who would have made great allies.
Not every one who voted Blue is a “fair-weather friend”. Frankly, I bet you would be surprised with how many would be willing to push for something better if given the opportunity.
And sometimes, people just need to be given the chance. The disagreements are meaningful, but the shit slinging is not. And I’m afraid we have traded in meaningful discussion for pure shit slinging.
Every ‘Vote Blue No Matter Who’ absolutely are fair weather friends. it means you don’t actually understand what you’re voting for and have no principles for which you’d hold the line. If you wouldn’t hold the line for a group experiencing a genocide you are not worth putting our group on the line for.
You can absolutely continue to try papering over what the DNC and dems like the OP just did to the palestinians but there isnt an argument on this blue earth that will result in my forgiving of it. The only option for those individuals is repentance.
Oh, okay, well I just checked with all the “Vote Blue No Matter Who” people, and everyone repented. Crazy I know, but every single one. Completed the repentance ceremony and everything. So we can all agree to work towards the greater good now right?
What’s that? Still no!? Is that because you were never arguing in good faith? Wow, I sure am shocked.
Look friend, I’m not interested in dying on pointless hills. Not while there are still things worth fighting for. If you have found your hill, I wish you luck holding it.
Hey look it’s one of the problems.
Please explain how Trump will bring in peace and stop Israel from hurting anymore Palestinians, since that’s the only way your dumbass argument would even be coherent
Never claimed that and explained my logic plenty of times elsewhere, not interested in doing so with a low-effort troll.
Lotta usage of the word solidarity when you were reliant on a people that the Democratic candidate campaigned on continuing the genocide of.
Kinda seems like your definition of solidarity is ‘support me no matter what.’
>Lemmy.ml
> Projecting
No surprises.
Look at that, a jackass fine with genocide falling back to ad hominem, because their screed of “I’m done with solidarity” when they had none in the first place gets pointed out for the bullshit it was.
I’ll be sure to tell my trans friends it’s okay that they’re getting thrown under the bus next because Leate_Wonceslace is done with solidarity. The Dems are already explicitly blaming them for the loss.
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I am willing to move forward with centrists as coalition partners with the left-- only because neither of us can win alone, but after this election they have to come to the table as coalition partners, NOT leaders.
Progressives need to leave the Democratic party. Voters know that neither progressives or centrists have the numbres to win alone, but Progressives have popular issues to run on, and centrists have nothing but hisorical momentum thats stopped pretty cold at the moment. All the “anyone but trump” people will still be there next election (assuming there is one) and they will vote for leadership that is promising good things. And progressives will win. So I say lets formally split, and if the centrists come along theyd be welcome, and if they’d rather go it alone then they should get used to losing because they have no other future.
So let me get this straight:
The Democratic Party snubs the left— even the progressives. They court the right wing, parading the Cheneys around.
The democrats lose.
The rightwing voters get riled up by the mask-off hatred, while their politicians straight up lie to Muslims and Latino people, winning some of their votes.
The democrats lose ground across the board. Their entire turnout was depressed. No matter how many times they learned their views were losing them votes, they refuse to budge on the issues they were undoubtedly wrong about. The fuckin meme says “we didn’t vote for genocide!!!” We can all agree voting…for genocide is…bad, right?
And you’re blaming the people who were ignored and told once again to go fuck themselves? Because they couldn’t stomach voting for people publicly and unflinchingly supporting the genocide.
Not the lying fascists, not the losing party for being told they were going to fail and still failing?
This is exactly how you continue to fail and lose to fascists.
And im telling you right now. History won’t look back and say “those fools! They didn’t vote because of a teensy little genocide!” They will say “all of those people stood by while a holocaust was happening.”
Not a doubt in my mind.
Right? .ml has been quiet…the CCP ran out of things for them to say?
Throwing your vote in the trash is a vote for garbage, and garbage won by a landslide.
The garbage voters really hate to hear it.
They voted for a worse genocide.
In 2 different places no less and possibly more.
They just don’t know it yet.
I’ve a feeling some of them know it. They’re just remaining here to maintain enough credibility to be believable during the next propaganda wave that’ll hit us once trump allows his boss to crater Kiev.
You forgot at home, where the marginalized groups are also gonna feel the brunt of turnips policies.
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Last I checked Trump lost 3 million voters since last election, and Harris lost 10 million.
The couch won. It’s not like people were suddenly won over by a person they’ve likely seen through 3 election cycles.
Right, which is why people are angry at the people who couldn’t even go vote for Harris
But the poster claimed they voted for a worse genocide. I’m saying they didn’t vote.
Not voting for Harris was indirect support for worse genocide. Choosing to stay on the couch is still a choice, and this time that choice gave us Trump
Well thankfully they also not voted for Trump which was indirect support for the better genocide.
Right, which is why people are rightfully furious at those they didn’t even bother to vote for the objectively better option
She didn’t appear better. So telling people that did nothing.
I don’t know why that’s a hard concept, for so many. Lemmy liberals love to think they can tell people exactly what to do because they are obviously right.
It’s smug and not effective and yet tactics don’t change just berate harder.
Great job couches, now your worst enemy is VP-elect.
Yea those couches are fucked now.
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I still see them around. But it will be really quiet in January and February.
In this thread: morally superior busybodies absolutely malding and calling OP an enlightened centrist for making fun of them
That is quite the projection given this entire post is morally superior dnc shills scolding the stupid drooling masses for their own parties historic failure.
But Alas, you’ve drawn yourself as the Chad and everyone else as the soyjack with this comment and thus can receive no criticism
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How edgy and cool and full of substance.
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it’s a lemmy classic
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If you thought the people who were critical of the Democrats went quite after the election, you’re saying more about the echo chamber you’ve built for yourself than anything else.
It’s so weird. Gaza is extremely important and deserving of the attention. It’s genocide, and it’s horrific. But is no one else important? Because we can’t save Gaza immediately, it’s really better to set outselevs on fire so we can burn together? Like, real talk, Harris will be fine. Biden will be fine. It’s our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
I wouldn’t say they’re gone though. I’ve been down voted, told “my kind/type” are all talk, or that I’m okay with murder, I voted for genocide, the usual. But I couldn’t sit and do nothing.
But I guess this is what they wanted. The dems have been taught a lesson, we’re moving headfirst into a dictatorship, and Gaza is no safer, but their conscious is clear, somehow.
And the genocide just worsens, with another soon in Ukraine
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Nobody said that. People who aren’t democrats say that, or people excusing their third party vote say that. Youre repeating fox news talking points that are essentially whataboutism.
Genocide is a US warmachine thing no matter the political party. If there was a chance for a change, it sure as shit wasn’t with dony moscow.
What’s this, a sudden influx of votes and comments that visibly oppose the votes and comments that came from the intended community, made apparent by older, lower-visibility comments such as those under folds having completely opposite positions and ratings? Why that almost sounds like a brigade! Surely not, we left those behind on Reddit, right?
Had nothing to do with it… or at least insignificantly. The Dems on a platform of “were not him” and the economy is booming… while people where hurting and got shafted by the wave of devaluation… people are angry… and the let’s keep going on the same path and change nothing and so nothing party did not get people out to vote.
It’s possible the idea that they ran a “not Trump” campaign is true enough, and that was part of the failure vs. being more to the left or vocal or any number of other things suggested. But the very fact that “not Trump” made people not show up and throw the election to him, or worse vote FOR him, says a lot about the state of the country.
I get it, people are hurting economically and somehow get blinded into promises that magic will happen. But Trump? Anyone voting this time around was around when he was in office the first time…are we that short memory? Yeah, we apparently are…repeating the same thing over and over expecting different results. And that can be applied to both sides, but one of them was the same guy.
I think you, someone who probably keeps up on the news and outrage and etc. are overestimating how much others do.
People are absorbed in their day to day life. Trump’s gonna appoint RFK to a health leadership position? That’s a far away concept with only vague implications for people who are having to take payday loans for the first time to make rent. Harris didn’t truly run a campaign of hope and change like '08 Obama.
Exactly… were not going back… to when we could afford rent?
Why? America is the country of fuck around and find out. There where no consequences, no prison time, no perp walk… there was no find out… so by extension… there must not have been a fuck around. It must have been a lot of Dems screetching about stuff but no actual smoke or fire.
Well they couldn’t punish trump or else they might ruin the fantasy that the wealthy and in charge are untouchable and they might be next for all the shit they pull.
Well it appears they’ll never figure that out and intend to lose more so in 4 more years.
Trump will have had 4 years to Putin up America by then. I’m not sure elections will matter any more by then. This is all just academic.
“Democrats lost because of this out that… They’ll never learn…” “Trump won because of that…”
Who fucking cares anymore? The fascists are in charge now.
So if the fascist are in charge does that mean you just give up? No resistance? No civil war? Just hand America over to the fascists?
Civil war? What kind of shit talk is this?
Sound like you’re rooting for that clusterfuck of an option.
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Better to fight the civil war than to just roll over for them
Better to not roll over AND not start a civil war.
Agreed, but if you gotta take on the other, which one do you pick?
Isn’t that what you did when you chose not to vote?
… No resistance? No civil war?
Who’s going to be on my side? Trump won the popular vote. Think we can rely on ppl that can’t even bother to vote to come actually put their lives in peril for a cause? Who would I fight with and what in the fuck are we even fighting for?
I’ll be in the fight anyway, as soon as there actually is one, but Americans will need to wake the fuck up before that’s possible.
Think we can rely on ppl that can’t even bother to vote to come actually put their lives in peril for a cause?
All that needed be said on the subject.
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put their lives in peril for a cause?
I mean if liberals weren’t so willing to through palestinians under the genocide train maybe you’d have some support? start but recanting your behavior with your community. go and support people in it and you’ll be surprised.
start but recanting your behavior with your community. go and support people in it and you’ll be surprised.
You’re talking out of your ass. You don’t know me or what I do for my community and you’re being pretty self righteous. So listen here:
Too late for any of this to matter, as I’ve said. Blame liberals. Blame Democrats. Trump is in power. Now it gets worse for everyone. Maybe you’ll enjoy the revenge of watching American liberals suffer. Maybe it will outweigh the additional suffering to the Palestinians in your mind.
Personally, I was never a big fan of Biden or Kamala but I voted for both of them out of necessity. I didn’t agree with Israel’s response to the Hamas attack. I wish Biden had taken a stand. Kamala would have been better but not great. Trump is far, far worse.
Too many Americans are ignorant to the binary choice they have and they threw their vote away. Too many Americans are either hateful or gullible enough to vote for Trump. Too many are just lazy or not interested. All that ignorance and anger has given power to a narcissist fascist, who loves, I mean loves Israel. He’s in charge of a vast arsenal and the halfway serious people from his last administration won’t have anything to do with him this time. This time he’s only appointing loyalists, just like a fascist.
Trump’s going to deport anyone he can from the US right away. Israel will do whatever they want with blessings and help. Trump will try to cling to power for more than four years. The next election might not count (Putin style, Trump’s buddy). This may get worse for some time to come.
Support cuts both ways and the sane people left in America got none of it this election. Now we all face the consequences.
I like how instead of taking the sound advice to reach out within your community for support you take offense and try to rationalize your support for genocide. enjoy trump you’ve certainly earned him. makes popcorn
The 2024 presidential election was like a really hairy credit card bill. Republicans ran on a platform of ignoring the debt all together and not making any payment at all, letting it get further out of hand. Democrats got blasted for proposing to make a minimum payment that did nothing toward interest. Neither choice was going to get us out of debt. But one of the choices is definitely going to bankrupt us. We could have made a payment. Now we’re in way over our head instead.
Another day, another Lemmy post blaming leftists instead of Republicans, conservatives, racists, and their enablers.
Kamala would not have been much better than Trump. She was far right democrat with zero policy at best.
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Serious question, do you pull the lever in the trolley problem?
Idk, knock the trolly off the tracks or untie the people. To think you are limited to two choices is as absurd as thinking everything is a fucking trolley problem
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Sometimes I wonder if people can entertain a non-trolly thought, but I suppose it’s just simpler to stay on tracks
I genuinely believe that these are the things you find yourself wondering about.
When you’re talking about a presidential election in the United States, it absolutely is a binary choice.
Not for much longer. The illusion of choice will be consolidated even further for efficiency purposes next go.
Do you kill a healthy person to harvest their organs in order save five in need of transplants?
I don’t think I could if they were strangers. I could if one of the recipients was my kid though.
The amount of bots that think anyone cares about either Chaney or what they say is incredible. And you’re still doing it.
It’s a clear sign on rightward slide & embrace. She agrees with most of what trump says and wants to achieve. The only reason she isn’t with trump right now is because she pissed him off.
I don’t think you even read what i said.
You mean the Kamala bots that defended her praising the Cheney’s? Yeah, they are not bots just establishment BlueAnon.
Good lord but you people are hung up on Cheney like she’s the only excuse you’ve got for helping put Trump back in office.
I mean Clinton decided to Buddy around with Henry Kissinger and people didn’t like it, I don’t know why you would think another candidate budding up to another war criminal was going to work this time around. How many times you got to lose making that mistake before you learn? Why you keep running the Hillary Clinton campaign over and over?
Yes. And then claim everyone is sexist so they can feel smug about it.
It’s a clear sign on rightward slide & embrace. She agrees with most of what trump says and wants to achieve. The only reason she isn’t with trump right now is because she pissed him off. And to your meme, Liz Cheney ain’t dead yet.
It’s a clear sign on rightward slide & embrace.
Let’s say you’re right, for the sake of argument. And the solution to that is to help the all-the-way-right fascist get back into office?
She agrees with most of what trump says and wants to achieve. The only reason she isn’t with trump right now is because she pissed him off.
So what? Liz Cheney wasn’t on the ballot.
And to your meme, Liz Cheney ain’t dead yet.
No, but the whining about her is, or should be.
All you’ve done with your comment is prove my point.
She was on the ballot. Harris repeatedly stated she was gonna put Republicans that even the Republicans don’t like in her cabinet.
So who was that for?
