I appreciate his history and how it guides this, but I argue that - in the context of addiction - not banning alcohol and its societal promotion is a greater harm by any government. Absurd? Yes. But deep down inside it’s no more absurd than prohibiting marijuana considering their similarities in societal use. I was going to say similarities in relative harm too, but alcohol is killing vastly more people than all other recreational drugs.
Canada legalizing marijuana simply stopped criminalizing normal society. The matrix of harm/help of alcohol, weed, and others is way more complex than prohibition.
We already know what alcohol prohibition did in the U.S. and we know that our prisons are filled with people who happened to have a dime bag in their pocket when a cop stopped them. He’s not an idiot. He has to know about both of those things.
What a douche.
What does this aging fossil have to say that’s important?
There are bad outcomes to cannabis use. It can kick off schizophrenia and depersonalization disorder, it actually can lower your IQ, and ending up in hospital because of palpitations from the high doses in gummies also happens, as well as cannabis hyperemesis, and it can affect sexual health and cause long term changes in the brain. This podcast did some great research https://www.psychiatrypodcast.com/psychiatry-psychotherapy-podcast/2019/5/1/marijuana-and-mental-health
Do I think recreational use is any more risky than alcohol? No. But using alcohol every day isn’t great and neither is cannabis. A drink or two, a joint on the weekend? Not a big deal. Have some fun.
I think legalization in Canada is a bit mixed, dispensing with arresting and prosecuting people for having a little pot was a waste of time, and I don’t really care if people relax with it. But there is a demonstrated increase in adverse outcomes from cannabis with legalization on the studies. And the 90 zillion weed stores in every city is overkill. Literally one on every block.
I don’t use cannabis, the two times I’ve tried it it just made me tired so I don’t see the point, but I don’t care if people do. I just don’t think it’s wise not to know the risks.
It’s always good to hear what the experts have to say on these matters.
All I see here is the common kneejerk reaction to anything remotely criticizing marijuana. Elton John is a dry alcoholic and has been supporting other people with substance abuse issues for many years now. To him trivialization of any sort of drug use is negative. Calling it “the greatest mistake” is just some hyperbole to highlight the issue he sees. And he’s not wrong in that there are many people, like in this comment section, who act as if there are no negative side effects to consuming cannabis. That is not only wrong but dangerous, because it is a drug and like all drugs it has its downsides that people need to be aware of. Still, personally I think decriminalization was the right thing. But stop acting like cannabis can do no evil.
How are you the only level-headed person in this thread?
The others have smoked too much.😛
Stoners on the internet generally seem to think it’s a cure-all.
I smoked last night but even I know it’s not good for you. It’s an escape. It’s likely safer than alcohol… as edibles anyway… but smoking it is likely on par with smoking cigarettes and vaping is going to increase cancer rates too.
I suspect it degrades your ability to recall memory too and that the more you use it the worse it gets, but that’s hard to quantify given that our memory seems to get worse as we age anyway.
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I believe the risks of cannabis are significantly less than nearly every other recreational drug out there. Hell, I am a huge psychedelic proponent, which in many cases causes less physical damage than most other drugs but also comes with its own list of caveats.
But yeah, I see what you are saying and agree. It is important to understand the correct risks of just about anything in life.
Some dry alcoholics love their soapbox though. I’ll occasionally bash alcohol, but I honestly try to keep my opinion to myself unless I am with other recovering alcoholics. (Repetitive negative reinforcement has a place, believe it or not.) What I am saying is that it is easy for someone in perpetual recovery to get a hair preachy. It’s a thing. (Also guilty here, btw.)
I would wager marijuana, even eating it rather than smoking, is more harmful than coffee. I’m not totally certain, since I don’t drink coffee. I do consume marijuana.
The toxicity level of caffeine is going to be much higher and cause some nasty cardiovascular issues at higher dosages. (I was hospitalized as a teen for a caffeine overdose, actually. It’s not a fun time.)
This is a rough estimate, as I didn’t send too much time looking, but 1.2g of pure caffeine is enough to cause seizures with an estimate I saw of 5-10 grams to be lethal.
The first result I saw for a lethal dose of THC was 1.2g/kg so for a 180lb (81.6kg) person that is about 100g. (That’s a lot of pure THC, btw.)
there are many people […] who act as if there are no negative side effects to consuming cannabis
Nah, I’ve had those negative side effects and I know them well, including depression from withdrawal, short term memory lapses and Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome. They sound bad but they don’t compare to other drugs in the slightest and in my case are incredibly manageable. None of these are permanent or life-changing and go away within a week after quitting cold turkey, which I’ve done many many times. Are you sure you’re not exaggerating the danger bit?
Just because other things are worse doesn’t mean cannabis is good. It’s definitely better in comparison, but it’s still a far cry from being harmless. That’s all I’m saying. I’d argue it should be treated similarly to alcohol, in that you’re not allowed to get it as a minor. And THC content should be better regulated, like alcohol content somewhat is. More THC only for adults, for example. It’s idiotic to demonize cannabis, especially with alcohol being such a big part of everyday life for so many people. But that doesn’t mean it’s fine for everybody to consume THC like it’s nothing.
What you are describing is legalization. The thing that Elton John is railing against here.
Yes. I disagree with him, but I also understand where he’s coming from.
I understand where he is coming from as well, but yes, I disagree with prohibition in general and it’s not for political reasons.
The best way to get someone to do something is to tell them they can’t do it or they shouldn’t do it. It’s human nature, especially during youth.
Just because other things are worse doesn’t mean cannabis is good
Sorry I gave you that impression but that’s not my point. My comparison is not necessarily meant to paint cannabis as good. (And so what if it did, anyway, what’s wrong with that as a fine drug of choice?) I’m saying its side effects are more manageable compared to the side effects of other recreational drugs to the point of them feeling like a minor inconvenience. When I feel bad, I quit cold turkey and it all goes away in a couple of days. That has never failed me (or many people I know who take breaks) in ten-plus years of mixed use. But ask them about cigarettes and they straight-up complain they can’t stop.
That’s all I’m saying. I would never say that it’s for everyone or that it’ll be necessarily good for you to consume it in whatever form. I don’t actively recommend cannabis. Fine if you do and fine if you don’t. But let’s not exaggerate the effects.
Edited for clarity.
Yes. Anyone who has experienced physical drug addiction knows that not all drugs/addictions are created equal.
For example, you can literally die from alcohol withdrawal.
If anything, cannabis keeps me sane enough to not need to medicate myself with harder shit to escape this shithole reality.
Soooooooooooo, Germany’s Legalization is fine then?
Okay good! (Join the BubatzGartenClub!)
Bin ich cool genug, einzuladen?
Na klar!
Fuck off elton. You know as well as anyone the same can be said for alcohol. As a legalization person I am very disappointed in at least the illinois legalization. It does not allow for private grow for everyone and puts to much money into to small of hands. In addition all the adult entertainment should have severe advertising restrictions. They should be restricted to only having adverts in other adult businesses. So liquor stores, dispensiaries, gambling establishments, bars, etc. stores should not be able to advertise liquor but just have the section with prices and thats it. Same with restaurants. We should totally allow adults to do these things but it stay out of the general public space.
Illinois is especially bad on catering to this shit. I agree, their cannabis laws suck, but I also hate that every bar also has slot machines. Let’s encourage two addictions at once and make every place you can get a drink a place you can also lose your shirt!
I’m just on the Indiana side of the Indiana/Illinois border and I appreciate being able to drive half an hour to a dispensary, but Illinois “vice” laws are seriously fucked up.
yeah we are so close to having good things but the corruption always spoils it. Its the traditional democrat half a loaf. I would rather have the half a loaf but what I would really like is a well baked, well made, full loaf. This is not a both sides things, btw 4 the peanut gallery. Half a loaf is way better than no loaf. We are super lucky to be positioned to draw tax money from so many states though. Yeah though I would like it not to be apparent that anything is legalized when driving through the state but see a bar or liqour store and boom you can get all the info you need. I agree with the slot machines but honestly I would rather not allow the internet stuff. You want to gamble then get off your ass and go to an establishment. If internet was not allowed I sorta can see why bars would be allowed like sports book and slots.
Finally we agree.
I spent age 16-25 a constant pothead. I mean, some weeks I’d just never be sober. My friend said that I sat up in bed, opened the drawer, pulled out a baggie, packed a bowl, smoked 2 hits, and then layed back down. All without waking up, or stop snoring.
I have never once done any other drug. I’m 42 now, and haven’t smoked weed in about 10 years.
I know others with similar stories. Weed does not lead to other drugs. Your choices do.
Weed opened my mind to trying other drugs, for sure. It wasn’t weed itself though, it was the fact that I was told growing up that all drugs, including weed, will ruin my life and health. I tired weed and it was giggly and relatively benign, which made me realize that everything I was taught was wrong.
I’ve had some of the best times of my life on MDMA, with my partner!
Weed led me to lsd which led to improving myself through some good long looks in the mirror. Meanwhile opiate addiction is far more frequently caused by legitimate prescription (and I’m not advocating against it, yall don’t want to experience surgery like those of us who are allergic have to)
Improper education leads to other, harder drugs. See DARE
Good call. I had my first intro to drugs in 3rd grade health class. I walked away thinking weed was the absolute worst thing you could do, but meth and acid were alright. I later found out that lesson was right in only one regard.
I mean acid and a few other psychedelics are ok. Meth abuse is harmful for sure, same for many opioids except when used in a medical setting or if you actually need them.
Cool story. Weed should be legal. But let’s not pretend it doesn’t have any harmful effects. Alcohol and smoking should be illegal though.
His point is that it’s not a drug that has to lead to other drugs
yes it has, though not as big as some people make it out to.
it has, because it’s illegal and puts people into contact with the legal market.
When you actually look at it, alcohol or coffee (depending on your interpretation of drug) are far bigger gateway drugs, alongside tobacco/nicotine/vapes.
I agree with everything you say. vapes (i dont like that name) were alot more controlled being sold only in ecigarette stores, and when they weren’t disposable or these small little devices, there was not many people who were “non-tobacco users” starting.
Source: worked in the e-cigarette industry for a few years. Left when big tobacco came in.
No one is pretending that, certainly not the person you responded to.
Shut up, nerd.
Alcohol should be illegal? What a dumb take.
My choices led to other drugs, and my choices led to me living a happier life, finally breaking free from my self-destructive habits. These Nixonites corpses need to finish their rigor mortis already.
Different people take it differently. I lead a super active life, and am more active than my friends who don’t indulge.
I clean, do stuff, am active, and consume heroic amounts of weed. I wake up early AF and am always early to things. I am not forgetful either or act “confused”.
I know everybody is affected differently, yet I hold the belief that the “stoner stereotype” is not as much about the weed slowing people down but about people being themselves and using weed as an excuse.
Perhaps my belief is due to my experience with it.
Perhaps my belief is due to my experience with it.
And you just demonstrated far more self awareness than Elton John!
He must not be very intelligent to hold these debunked and outdated views. Quite out of touch with reality.
He seems to be a sobriety zealot. Most of the damage caused by marijuana is the illegality of it
I agree that it could be considered addictive. But same could be said about booze. Prohibition is horseshit.
Yeah, having nuance on the Internet is hard.
It can be addictive. It can lead to other drugs. Neither of which means it needs to be illegal.
Lead to other drugs, no.
If we want to worry about addicts, maybe we should worry about all of the sugar addicts, considering obesity is a much bigger problem when it comes to all sorts of things in society, especially our healthcare system.
Sugar, ultraprocessed food, shopping/overconsumption, porn, gambling. Lots of normal things condoned by our society can be addictive for a segment of the population.
Right, but detracting from the point isn’t very productive. Weed does have the opportunity to be addicting. Now that the world is leading towards more open use of it, hopefully we can do more research and better understand how things work.
Absolutely, do the research. But don’t pretend like this is the big addiction problem that must be solved.
no i never said anything like that. there is other drugs that have that issue like opioids
I know you didn’t, but that’s essentially what Elton John is saying.
elton john can walk down the yellow brick road
This is honestly one of the saddest parts about all of this. 80+ years of scientific research that we could have been doing. All of the treatments and medicines that we’d likely have…
Every single time we learn something new and positive about a chemical in cannabis, I can’t help but think that we should have known this shit for decades…
Yeah its really stupid. Also on kinda the same point i wish hemp was used more widely.
The sugar problem is wild. And I’ll admit iv beens in it’s clutches a lot longer than weed. Also I’m still happy with weed, and while I am trying to cut back on the sugars wholly shit it’s so much harder than weed. Or booze, which I also enjoy and struggle with.
It can make sense if you flesh it out. The headline and two lines the musician said about it are shallow, but there’s a grain of truth in there.
I do believe that overuse of marijuana is going to be a negative. Kids under 24 using marijuana is going to be a negative. And both of those are going to increase with legalization.
Neither are as harmful as prohibition, but they’re still harmful.
Potheads don’t need to be on quite the same level as alcoholism, but it should be closer than it is. If you’re not acknowledging the harm of using the legal system to enforce this, his quote makes sense. He may not have stated it well.
Issue being that legalization always leads to less and safer use.
Safer, sure. Less? Absolutely not. More people will use marijuana when it’s legal.
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Factually incorrect across the U.S. in legal states.
And yet in Canada after legalization use has infact remained the same.
But OP’s feelings say otherwise!
I only found sources claiming usage frequency remained the same but the amount of users has increased.
nice.
His opinion is like a candle in the wind.
