As I said in another thread elsewhere on the same subject:
The Protest Vote Paradox™
As we’ve all read time after time in the months leading up to the election, the Protest Vote™ simply states states that:
“We refuse to vote against a Tyrant-Felon in order to send a clear and concise message that we will not stand for [roll D20 for random popular single issue], and alongside our refusal to vote against the Tyrant-Felon, is a collective hope that the aforementioned clear and concise message- if ignored, is received under unmitigated duress!”
-Cut to Tyrant-Felon’s win, and the aftermath:
Whether observed or not, the behavior of the Protest Voter will attempt to achieve the following:
• Obnoxiously tell everyone: “We told you all what would happen!”
• Onnoxiously claim there is: “No way protest voting could cause trump to win.”As both of these options cannot simultaneously be true in the same reality without breaking important time-space things that we would probably prefer not be broken- we are left with only a few logical conclusions:
- Protest voters have no idea what they’re talking about.
- Protest voters don’t understand the concept of hypocrisy.
- Protest voters have somehow learned to defy reality and become exempt from the concept of paradoxes, thus creating an entirely new study of theoretical science, known as Bulletproof Symbiotic Hypocrisy Theory, or BLsHt.
Something, something, something Ted Talk.
- Protest voters fell for a propaganda campaign (maybe by the republicans, maybe by Russia or China trying to destabilise the USA).
all of the above, plus perhaps iran, dprk…
Occam’s razor that versus the campaign was SO POORLY RAN that it didn’t inspire people to vote against a literal dictator.
As both of these options cannot simultaneously be true
They absolutely can. Protest voters not voting don’t encompass every democrat vote lost, there are simply many unconvinced people who became apathetic and didn’t vote despite having nothing to do with protest voters, with the latter being a minority. Stop your logical fallacies based on false premises.
So, you’re claiming that the protest both worked to help elect trump, and simultaneously didn’t work to help elect trump……
Gotcha.
I’m claiming that protest voting wasn’t a significant factor in trump being elected, unlike democrats running on having the, I quote, “most lethal army in the world” during an ongoing genocide, bringing the Cheney, and a myriad of other problems. The dems only have themselves to blame for being incapable of offering a better, more desirable option than Donald J fucking Trump
Sooooooo…. All the people saying “you should have listened to us!” and, “We told you this would happen!”
Liars?
Because a LOT of you seem to think that your little protest was a clear message sent and received.
All the people saying “you should have listened to us!” and, “We told you this would happen!”
Liars?
Not liars, just unaware that, outwards (i.e. internationally), there is no difference in policy between democrats and republicans. Now, what are you gonna do, bash to the left of you (the ones who actually organise to fight against fascism), or join us?
Okay, so-
It DID work and you all successfully got trump elected?
You’re kind of making my point for me here. Pick a lane and stick with it. Either your protest was effective and you take credit for where we are now, or it was a waste of time and effort.
Removed by mod
I hope they at least got paid. Doing that level of BS for free would just be sad
I don’t think its even paid shills. We have generative AI now, and can VPN with fake accounts pretty easily as regular consumers. If we can do it, they can do it on a larger scale and professionally, and not just ‘their side’, but global rivals.
If another country wants your country to do something stupid, all they have to do is get a bot army to upvote bad ideas and pump out memes and comments supporting whatever policy you think will negatively impact your rival.
If they’re NOT doing this already, then they’re terrible at their jobs, and I don’t think they’re honestly that incompetent.
That said, don’t assume they’re only trying to influence everyone other than you. All that social media data created a system to predict who you are and what buttons to push to get you to act.
That would also be nicer than an army of people sincerely believing they’re doing the right thing by not voting
“Oh damn I lost the race I thought was easy again. Could I be a shit party with shit messaging and wet farts for fans? Nah its everyone else whos wrong”
They still put forth the mutually exclusive arguments, simultaneously. “Our protest couldn’t have had an effect, so we totally didn’t sacrifice American LGBT folk for a chance at saving Gaza” + “If the Dems had just given in to our protest, we would’ve voted for them and they would have won”
Both arguments are stupid on their own merits, but together, they paint a picture of intellectual and moral bankruptcy.
Your supposed to vote for the candidate that represents your views. Doing so should never be considered sacrificing anyone unless you candidate is the bad guy.
Decades of blaming third party voters is why we have two parties that don’t represent the people today. There will be pain breaking that trend, but eventually it will pay off.We’re probably making the classic mistake of homogenizing a heterogeneous group.
I doubt any individual holds both opinions simultaneously.
I doubt any individual holds both opinions simultaneously.
They put forth both arguments simultaneously, regardless of whether they believe one or both. Or neither.
Okay, who? Which person specifically is doing that?
Next time I run into one, I’ll send it to you.
Those aren’t mutually exclusive, you’re not that stupid so why pretend?
“There weren’t enough of us to sway the election” and “had more people worked with us we would have one” are the same statement: both point out that not enough people did the thing you’re so pissed about
“There weren’t enough of us to sway the election” and “had more people worked with us we would have one”
“Had more people agreed with us, we would have had more people who agreed with us” is not anything but a statement of obvious, if wishful, fact, and is not what is being said; not in my summary nor in the arguments of the people I’m referring to. Nor does it make any sense as an argument, explanation, or point of any kind. Utterly vacuous.
The argument being put forth, and I suspect you’re well-aware of this, is that if the Dems had taken up whatever position these protest-voters wanted, that would have convinced enough people to vote Dem who otherwise would not have done so.
that if the Dems had taken up whatever position these protest-voters wanted, that would have convinced enough people to vote Dem who otherwise would not have done so.
Yes, that is your strawman of their arguments
Yes, that is your strawman of their arguments
And your claim is that they were actually saying “If more people agreed with us, we would have more people who agreed with us.”
Would you like to explain how that is, in context, anything resembling a salient point? Or is your argument that they were spewing empty phrases, and I was wrong to apply meaning to their words?
If protest voters had voted for Harris, she still would have lost, because twenty million democrats stayed home. She didn’t lose because of protest votes, she lost because white middle class voters decided they didn’t want to bother, because the election won’t affect them anyway.
If 77 million people vote for Trump, and 75 million vote for Harris, that any single voter’s vote is only one vote does not mean that if they vote for Trump, it’s a morally neutral act. Not being the tipping point is not absolution for one’s actions or inaction. And doing mental backflips to justify a vote for Trump because they were ‘just one vote’ instead of taking some time to fucking reflect if Trump winning was the outcome they wanted to support would make them an utter cretin.
The core issue is that many Americans don’t seem to care if fascism comes to America. This includes protest voters, but yes, protest voters are only a small percentage of that much-larger category.
Fascism came a long time ago, now they are just ripping off the politically correct mask.
I mean, they didn’t sacrifice American LGBT folks for a chance to save Gaza. They sacrificed us for absolutely nothing.
Actually, they sacrificed us for an even faster genocide of Gaza. So now everyone loses!
But it’s not their fault, and even if it was, America deserves genocide. /s
Yes. The naraccism prayer is on clear display with them:
That didn’t happen. And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And if it was, that’s not a big deal. And if it is, that’s not my fault. And if it was, I didn’t mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
They’ve cleared stage four and I await to see how they spin the last two.
Based on news of Elon setting up fake pro-Trump liberal advocacy groups before the election do we know how much of these arguments are coming from legit leftists IRL vs manufactured consent? Just curious, when you say ‘they’ are these people you’ve talked to IRL or online?
There are a good number right here on Lemmy.
Others who scrubbed months of their comments immediately after the election.
Lemmy users is really not a group that represents voters in any category other than lemmy users.
I don’t believe I claimed anything otherwise - just pointing out they exist, and you can find examples here on Lemmy.
How prevalent outside of online spaces… I don’t know, not something I’d be tracking personally.
We fucking told you so:
Still thinking the people to blame are the DNC elites that went on to run on a right platform, even inviting fucking war criminal mass murderer Dick Cheney to advocate for them.
Also Trump is not something that just happened. The US is an empire in decline and Trump is a symptom of that. The conditions of decline are maintained by the Republicans and Democrats and voting either won’t be enough to turn things around.
Its been time to fundamentally reform the political system at the very least since 2016.
Its been time to fundamentally reform the political system at the very least since 2016.
Yea, it was happening, not very fast but RCV or other FPTP alternatives were spreading. Now it’s probably going to take a back seat now that Trump and Co has returned to power. Yet another consequence of the short sighted bLuEmAGa folk
You can understand that Harris would have been undeniably less awful than trump but also still terrible and basically offered trump-lite policies. This means that people who actually want fascism are just going to vote for trump and many of the people who want progressive policies are going to be apathetic and stay home. This isn’t about all the tankies protest voting, it’s about all the normies who already don’t vote not caring because she ran a dogshit campaign.
Protest voters bLuEmAgA screeching didn’t happen in a vacuum
And those uncommitted/undecided voters change their minds easily. What if for every protest voter screecher posting their “bOtH SiDeS” BS there were 5 uncommitted voter lurkers saw it and just went “Eh fuck it, I’m busy with work anyways” they’re not protest voting, those are just uncommitteds doing what uncommitteds do.
Scale that up to nationwide and on major social media platforms that totally would have promoted it thanks to those wonderful algorithms and you can see what it’s a problem
Had a friend who was not particularly radical or politically involved who was almost discouraged enough to cast a third-party vote for all the “BOTH SIDES BOTH SIDES” rhetoric.
Words have power.
Words have power.
Yup, I was saying the same thing pre election in a couple of my wonderful discussions with those
bots“people” such as anticolonialist (whos been silent for months now a day after the election LMAO)I see it all the time on platforms that provide statistics, a comment or post can easily have thousands upon thousands of views but like 2 likes and maybe a reply. It’s those thousands that are really easily influenced and they don’t even bother to like/dislike something let alone answer surveys and polls and are incredibly likely to just leave that mail in ballot on the kitchen counter so it’s impossible to know how many there were that could have been potentially influenced
such as anticolonialist (whos been silent for months now a day after the election LMAO)
The pro-Palestine folks haven’t been quiet. They just get downvoted below visibility by Blue MAGA folks who like to pretend that all the pro-Palestine folk were Russian bots.
Nah, plenty of us were pro-palestine enough to vote for the one of two candidates who didn’t want to entirely destroy Gaza. Good thing single issue voters got what they wanted though, right? Right??
I would love it if the bLuEmAgA crowd would sit down for an hour and actually understand electoral politics and how abstaining/voting 3rd party is objectively worse than voting strategically. But some people’s morals in the immediate choice are more important than their long term morals, so here we are.
Sure but if I’m going to put the blame on someone it’s going to be the politicians who refuse to do anything but ratchet right and not the people who are mad about it.
Man, do you not remember what it was like 20 years ago? Even 10 years ago? “We’ve ratcheted right” is empty fucking rhetoric. The Dems have been moving leftwards ever since the nadir of labor support in the 90s. Is it enough? Fuck no. Are we rightward of that? Have we moved right since? Also fuck no.
The people who are ‘mad’ about that have just chosen to kill as many Palestinians as US support can, in addition to genocide against LGBT folk and immigrants, immense damage to the working class, and God knows what fucking else will emerge in this shitshow of a fascist regime.
I’m not going to sit here waiting for Medicaid to be repealed so I can enjoy exsanguinating by internal bleeding because I can’t afford my meds in our fuckhole of a country and say, “Oh, shucks, well, those folk, they were just SO mad that they let the Nazis win, I guess they’re still okay in my book :)” I’m pissed. And I’m pissed for everyone who’s going to get fucked worse than me, which is, unfortunately, a great many people.
Kamala had every opportunity to campaign on medicare and labor but instead she decided that a lethal military, trump-lite immigration policy and agreeing with biden on everything. Sure there were people pretending third parties mattered but apathetic voters are a response to her dogshit campaign at the end of the day. You need to get people excited to vote for you if you want to actually win an election in this country, trump did that for his nazis, kamala did not for the left.
Sure there were people pretending third parties mattered but apathetic voters are a response to her dogshit campaign at the end of the day.
Apathetic voters are a loud and clear declaration of “I don’t care if the literal fascist wins” in this election, man.
Harris having a dogshit campaign doesn’t change that. Harris’s dogshit campaign condemns Harris, and her allies; but the victory of Trump condemns everyone who stood by and refused to do the least thing, a cast vote, to stop him.
Apathy is not an excuse. Apathy is exactly why they deserve condemnation. Anyone who is apathetic about fascism is not someone who deserves a milder rebuke than would otherwise be given. Apathy about fascism is a serious moral failing.
Sure but getting mad at your average apathetic willfully ignorant American is just a waste of energy, and if anything is just going to make them ignore politics even more.
How can you run on a platform of democracy, when democracy has gotten the average American citizen jack shit?
“Vote for a Democrat. If Democrats win, nothing will fundamentally change. If they lose, then you will lose your right to vote for a Democrat again!”
That’s a shit platform that is doomed to fail. Democrats have been running on the platform of “we’re the last hope for democracy” for a generation as this point. And at some point people simply give up and decide, “well, democracy clearly ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, as neither side actually wants to help regular people.”
but also still terrible and basically offered trump-lite policies.
Harris didn’t say she was going to deport millions of working Americans for being the wrong colored skin.
Harris didn’t say she was going to weaponize the entire political machine against people who passed some off-hand sleight that offended her.
Harris didn’t say she was going to actively dehumanize and torture the entire LGBT community for existing.
Harris didn’t say she was going to actively remove every protection from working class people.
She said none of this. The other guy said it multiple times, and now he’s following through on it! Big fucking shocker!
Seriously. The “both sides” arugment has been so tired out for so long that you cannot legitimately believe that it means anything. Believing the silence said by one side and giving that more weight than what is being actively repeated by the other side is short sighted at best, and intentionally malicious at worst. We’re on the worst side now, and I will treat people who repeat it as the worst side.
You do understand that by saying she would be less awful than trump and trump-lite that I am not saying she would be the same as him? That implies that Trump is worse?
Admit you were wrong and learn from it.
No? I voted for Kamala but I still think she’s a piece of shit, just a smaller piece of shit than Trump and I’m not surprised she lost
I see democrats are already doing their best to blame everyone but themselves. Can’t wait to see who you run against him for his third term. I’m sure whoever they are, they’ll be a carbon copy of Obama, like the last three elections you ran against Trump.
You guys just really fucking love losing.
I’m sure whoever they are, they’ll be a carbon copy of Obama…
You think Clinton, Biden and Harris are carbon copies of Obama?
You’re right, Obama could articulate a sentence.
Based
Translation: “I did everything I could to usher the fat orange fascist into power, but the DEMOCRATS are the ones to blame!!!”
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
I am so tired of strategic voting
Have a look at the swiss voting system 😇 hope you see the way for improvement 😁
But first kill this stupid pardon right of president making all courts a fucking joke and waste of money
First pass the post suuuuucks. Literally anything else is at least slightly better.
Well apart from outright vanguard single party rule or dictatorship. Absolutely.
Alaska actually had ranked choice this last election. No green candidate in a state they could have done the most good in though
Unfortunately, that’s the only kind of voting there is, so long as there are factions and negotiations (ie always, realistically speaking).
People think of voting at the polls like an opinion poll, but it’s not, or shouldn’t be treated as such. We are the equivalent of electors in a college or legislators in a parliament. What we wield is not our opinion, it is our political power, what little sliver of it we have in the great mass of the electorate. If Senator John Q. RealtivelyLeft abstained on a bill for universal healthcare tomorrow because the wording displeased him, we wouldn’t say “Well, that’s just his opinion”, we’d lambast him for forsaking a chance to make this fucking country a little less miserable for his own petty partiality. Same with voting.
Look to your left and to your right. Your fellow voters are there, and it’s only by majority vote that anything gets passed.
Be strategic. And also, be loud and unafraid of your own position; it’s the only way the calculus on strategies changes.
And vote for ranked voting when it comes up in local elections.
Or approval voting
Yes, and that is why you have to have a mechanism to trigger a national vote to cancel any new written law before it takes effect
It is called a referendum
As well as a way that anyone can issue a change of the constitution by triggering a so called initiative which than has to win vote to get through
And of course, make sure nothing disturbs separation of powers like a pardon law or president setting judges without a vote.
aren’t you enjoying your pseudo-democracy?
Just one more time bro! Just vote for the Dems one more time bro, and they’ll definitely stop being a lesser evil. I know they’ve never done anything to actually obstruct America’s slide to fascism, but just vote blue no matter who one more time bro I’m sure this is the time!
I see the people who insisted that they had to keep doing the genocide for the election are still trying to blame everyone else
I see the people who obnoxiously shouted at everyone that bOtH SiDeS aRe tHe sAmE for months before the election are beginning to see that they’re not.
It’s too bad they have that commonality with MAGA in their shared lack of shame to admit it.
Now it’s OUR turn to tell you we told you so, only we’re far less smug about it.
And allowing Trump to return to power is stopping the genocide how exactly?
Because at this point it’s getting worse and there’s soon to be a second genocide going on here in the US.
Soo much better!/s
And allowing Trump to return to power is stopping the genocide how exactly? Because at this point it’s getting worse
Uh… Big news, fella, there was a ceasefire. Kamala openly said during campaigning that under her rule America would always have “the most lethal armed forces in the world”.
Yea, maybe you should have pressured Kamala to flip on this like I was posting about for a fucking year before the election. Instead centrists told Arabs, Latinos, the poor, and other minorities to fuck off and this is the result. Now you’re here pathetically posting stuff like this almost daily to make yourself feel better, but its really transparent and gross.
Instead centrists told Arabs, Latinos, the poor, and other minorities to fuck off and this is the result.
Remember when you lot said “Fuck off, I don’t WANT the non-fascist candidate, let the fascist candidate who despises minorities and openly yearns for their death, win”?
Good times.
I’ll be sure to show up at your door vomiting blood when they strip Medicaid from the ‘unworthy’. Assuming that comes before the camps for those on psychiatric medication for ‘healing through labor’. And probably both of those will come before the Racial Hygiene laws, so I can’t do it after that.
Remember how I said I voted for her and have said I would be voting dem the whole time and you still insist I didn’t. I also said that Gaza would look really bad for them and would lose them michigan but you insisted that changing their mind was political suicide. So glad they listened to people like you.
Remember how I said I voted for her and have said I would be voting dem the whole time and you still insist I didn’t.
I don’t remember this, though it’s certainly possible, considering how many people playing stupid games I argued with during the lead-up to the election.
I also said that Gaza would look really bad for them and would lose them michigan but you insisted that changing their mind was political suicide.
My opinion on the public opinion on Gaza changed all the way back in March with the emergence of new polling numbers on US Dem and independent opinion on the genocide. Before March I said that it was impractical for the Dems to change their platform when the majority of Dems still supported Israel (or did not support the removal of aid, which amounts to the same thing). Having lived through the US electorate sleeping through Israeli genocide several times in my short life, I don’t think it’s ridiculous that I thought they’d sleep through it again, while us few who cared about foreign policy looked on in horror, as we had the last three times.
I did opine at several points after March that I understood why a change may not be a net gain since opinions were deeply divided, but that they should commit to an anti-genocide anyway, since either position had become a losing position with regards to large portions of the electorate.
So glad they listened to people like you.
Did Gaza protest votes lose the Dems the election or not? I wish you lot would make up your mind.
I think they contributed significantly, but I put the blame on the people who decided Genocide at all costs, aka the candidates.
I don’t think the genocide was the deciding factor. I don’t think winning over swing voters on both sides of the genocide would’ve saved us, unfortunately. The numbers which came in after election day were… not close enough, and the issue not rated highly enough by voters to make up the difference.
I put significant blame on Biden for ignorantly trundling forward for months despite internal polling telling him that he was cooked, some blame on Harris and her allies for running a shite campaign, and the overwhelming amount of blame on the ~90 million voters who said “I don’t care if fascism wins” and the ~77 million who said “I want fascism to win”.
In a just world, Biden would be reviled as the man who lost the republic, and I intend to put that forward regularly for as long as I can. In a just world, Harris’s political career would be dead. I’m less dedicated to that. But neither of their flaws or positions justifies letting fascism win. If Biden and Harris deserve a noose, even, that would still not mean that the electorate was not at fault. The final choice between fascism and a non-fascist regime was ultimately decided by the electorate, not the candidates. You can place blame on the chef who makes a burnt stir-fry and loses the contest for incompetence or malice, but in the end, it’s the judges who decided that they preferred the “Glass, arsenic, and dogshit sandwich” - or didn’t care enough to make a decision either way - who made the ultimate decision.
For those who sat by and let fascism win despite being nominally left-wing, this is essentially an expression of frustration.
This wasn’t even “Trump supports my one issue”. That would be ridiculous, but there’s a logic to it, if one legitimately values a single issue above all others. But it wasn’t. For all of them who stood by and let Trump win, they did so with the knowledge that Trump was worse on the issue they were supposedly protesting against.
It’s exhausting. To see people complain about support for genocide and then decide that if they can’t stop it, they’re okay with INCREASING support for genocide, and starting a few new ones for good measure.
And honestly, I’m only a little pissed that I’m in the sights of the regime, if not the first target (that, unfortunately, will be our trans countrymen and women). Mostly I’m pissed at the idea that ‘left’ people embraced injustice entirely without gain out of either spite or sheer empty-headed thoughtlessness. Are they the lynchpin? Would they have saved us? Probably not. Maybe if they put 100% in campaigning, but I can hardly blame them for not doing that. But they should have known better than to stand by and let fascism in. By the values they preach, they should have known better. And by the fact that most of them still prefer puffing up their inaction as some form of heroic resistance instead of a contribution to a literal fascist victory?
Well, forgive me for not wanting that narrative of ‘Inaction against fascism is heroic’ to take root, in case we still have elections in four years. God only knows what kind of margin of victory or defeat we’ll be dealing with.
You entirely dodged the question.
How was allowing Trump to return to power stopping the genocide? How is it not worse?
Why are y’all so obsessed with third party voters lmao
OP has lost their shit over third party voters every day since the election.
If they can blame the voters then the DNC doesn’t need to change.
Sounds true… but if you remove one excuse, they will find another. They would rather go down with the ship than change.
After all, changing means losing thier cash flow and influence. Letting the reps win means they can probably keep those things for the rest of their personal lives. They’ll be dead before we become a true one party system.
Because it would be the solution to a better voting system
More parties are better, because there is never just black or wait (or better said just blue and red)
The world is more nuanced than that, but sadly this is already too complex for too many people.
I voted 3rd party in the last UK election, it probably helps that our system is 650 elections at once across the country. You are only voting for your local representative. But it is still FPTP which is pretty bad as a system, it’s still less shit than the US system though.
My thinking is that sure they won’t win this time but if support for them starts to increase (it is doing so) then the party may at some point put more focus on this area for a future election and win. This is how they have now got some influence and also if you look at the local level it takes even less. Most local council elections where I live are won with less than 1000 total votes because they cover pretty small areas. There are of course also cases where a party loses narrowly because of a 3rd party, a local one here had the minor parties fighting between each other and the incumbent national party came dead last with 5%.
It lets them ignore the responsibility of running a bad campaign with a failed strategy.
Seeing how Democrats keep gnawing on this bone really lets me know the Democrats are never going to ever win another election. Anything in the world to avoid having to change their failed strategy. They ran the Hillary Clinton campaign and lost again, but God forbid they changed that no it’s the voters who are wrong. Should we appeal to voters who care more about the working class than the business class? Nah fuck that. Should we appeal to people who don’t like people like Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney? Nah fuck that. Keep fucking that chicken.
Removed by mod
Nothing disturbs Nazis like when others don’t follow the rules - the rules are there to oppress others and ignoring the rules undermines the implied order. Break rules. Fuck with their idea of safety. Mail them letters to their house. Show them pictures of their own home interior. Make them afraid.
Keep this, nix the rest.
Spoken like a Republican reading the second amendment 🙄
Uh, no. I’m a filthy socialist. But I’m also aware of how voting works within the system.
Removed by mod
I can’t tell if you voted for Harris because you said you voted against the bad man but are being really defensive of the people who helped Trump win.
If you did anything but vote Harris, you did not vote against Trump in our shitty first-past-the-post system. Don’t kid yourself.
If we’re going to start blaming people who let Trump win, let’s start with Joe Biden, who was too stubborn to drop out before the 2024 primary. Then, let’s move on to his aides, who kept his declining cognitive abilities from the public. Then let’s move on to any Democratic Party members who met with Biden before the 2024 election and were aware of his diminished capacity. Then let’s move on to the members of the DNC who decided to protect Biden from real primary challengers (they drove Dean Phillips out of politics for trying to run, by the way), despite the fact that 60% of Democrats wanted a different candidate.
Once we’re done blaming those people, let’s move on to blaming Harris, who did nothing to distance herself from Biden on Gaza despite knowing that it was polling very poorly with a base she needed to motivate. Then let’s blame her for adopting a flacid, middle-class oriented economic policy and abandoning the economic populism that worked in 2020. Let’s also blame Harris’ top strategists, Jen O’Malley Dillon, David Plouffe, Quentin Fulks, and Stephanie Cutter, who ran the same strategy of trying to flip moderate Republicans that lost in 2020.
Anyway, once we’ve held all those people accountable for letting Trump win, then maybe we can see if there’s any blame left for protesting leftists or apathetic working-class voters. And before you ask, yes, I voted for Harris. I just don’t hold the powerless accountable for the powerfuls’ mistakes.
I just don’t hold the powerless accountable for the powerfuls’ mistakes.
…So you agree advocating against Harris was a mistake? The thing that everyone else said would be a mistake?
How are these people any different than “I care about the economy” voters who never verified any of Trumps claims? Just a little mistake, nothing to hold against them.
…So you agree advocating against Harris was a mistake? The thing that everyone else said would be a mistake?
What the ever loving fuck are you talking about? You think when I said the powerful, i meant Muslims and anti-war protesters who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Harris? Or working-class voters who decided Harris’ shitty economic plan wasn’t worth standing in a poll line? And I guess you must have thought the powerless were the people who spent over a billion dollars campaigning with Mark Cuban? Is that how broken your brain is?
We’re talking voters, dude. No idea why you keep bringing up POWER as if people are incapable of blaming two things at once. The Democrats blew it, no doubt about it.
But anyone that didn’t vote for Harris helped Trump win.
It’s literally the first comment, dude. I detail a huge fucking list of powerful people who fucked up so bad the Democrats lost to one of the least popular Presidents of all time, then ended it with, “Anyway, once we’ve held all those people accountable for letting Trump win, then maybe we can see if there’s any blame left for protesting leftists or apathetic working-class voters.” It’s literally a politicians job to win elections, but this community is full of memes blaming the left because the Democrats suck at their job.
The existence of people more deserving of blame doesn’t absolve the people less deserving of blame for their faults. Stein voters/non-voters are not blameless here.
I despise the Democratic Party. That doesn’t make me less pissed off at the voters who campaigned against her
What the ever loving fuck are you talking about? You think when I said the powerful, i meant Muslims and anti-war protesters who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Harris?
It would seem that they felt that punishing the powerless for Harris’s mistakes was okay.
Seriously Pug? You think that Muslims watching their people get ethnically cleansed aren’t powerless? You think college students getting beaten by cops and accused of antisemitism for protesting a genocide aren’t the powerless? You think people exercising the tiniest amount of control they have over their democracy by withholding their vote means their not the powerless ones? How many groups are willing to scapegoat before you start holding people with actual institutional power accountable?
Seriously Pug? You think that Muslims watching their people get ethnically cleansed aren’t powerless? You think college students getting beaten by cops and accused of antisemitism for protesting a genocide aren’t the powerless? You think people exercising the tiniest amount of control they have over their democracy by withholding their vote means their not the powerless ones?
Your argument is that the powerless shouldn’t be held accountable for the sins of the powerful. Yet simultaneously, you claim that voters punishing American minorities with genocide and a fascist regime is justified, because of the sins of the Dem elite.
Sorry that you think that welcoming genocide is only bad when Dem elites do it, and not when voters ushering in fascism do it.
I voted against Trump. Voting for Trump wouldn’t be a vote against Biden. Reading further down thread with the attacks you have against another commenter, I don’t think you’re terribly literate at understanding people who disagree with you. It’s either that or disingenuous because you want to fight. Your pick.
When liberals lose, they always blame someone else.
This is what happens when your campaign entirely consists of cringe memes, preaching “civility”, and talking about how eager you are to submit to the wills of the opposition.
Left and Right wing liberals, it would seem… if 2020 was any indication.
Those of us who disliked Biden and thought Harris wasn’t enough held our contempt and voted against the bad man.
Yeah, except for the fact that I know a lot who didn’t. It might be a shock to you, but there was a big push in left-leaning communities here on Lemmy and elsewhere on the web to either not vote for Harris or not vote at all. It was so fucking full-force in major leftist communities with so little interest in Trump that I’m convinced it was a targeted disinfo campaign. One that worked.
I think so too…
Lemmy and leftists communities aren’t even a blip on the graph. Go to a PA town and ask them what lemmy is. Or what communism is for that matter. They voted trump because his misinfo campaign was way larger than the one you’re complaining about. And also because the democrats suck.
I love when people ignore parts of my comments for the sake of their argument.
Removed by mod
