- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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I am literally here, now, commenting on this because I am reading the article to this on reddit and … I can’t believe they are going to start punishing upvotes! That is the final stray for Reddit. Its dead. Gone the way of Digg. I am literally here now to start moving over to Lemmy.
I just realized - and must keep in mind, with a federated platform like lemmy, all of your upvotes and downvotes are broadcasted across the network. ANYONE could track your upvotes and downvotes in THIS system.
I had no idea how much I valued voting privacy.
What’s Digg?
Digg was a news and comment aggregation site before Reddit existed. It was pretty fantastic for its time. Reddit is like Digg on steroids.
Funny enough, Digg is making a comeback
Here is an example of an instance admin abusing the privilege of being able to see who voted for what content. OTOH, this incident was noted, and people started abandoning whole entire communities there and moving them elsewhere.
THIS is the freedom that the Fediverse offers: not that you can do whatever you want, but that you don’t have to remain beholden to anyone else (like spez), and instead can move elsewhere at any time, while still accessing the entirety of the Fediverse (unlike Reddit which gates it behind their API limiters, for the sake of profit).
Banning for mentioning Luigi is just absurd. Up voting has been a thing for a while , they just extended what it violated. Before this, up voting excessively or so soon after account creation flags you as a bot
Honestly, I don’t even like the downvote/upvote system because it promotes censorship and a lot of the times it’s just an agree/disagree button. I feel that no matter how right or wrong someone is, they should always be able to express their opinion in a civil manner (obviously there are mods for removing rule breaking posts/comments). Downvoting just kills any discussion.
I’ve been places without upvotes and downvotes and they’re just garbage piles of spam and useless replies.
The Steam Comminity Forms for instance: if you’re trying to get any useful information on a recent release go somewhere else, as half of what you’ll find is people complaining that the game is *woke" (because there is a woman or a minority in it somewhere), and the other half is people complaining that the game isn’t a completely different genre.
With downvotes the useless, troll, and off topic comments can be filtered out to not clutter up the useful posts.
Absolutely: the voting systems were out there for a reason:-).
Not really, it’s removing the comments that isn’t violating is the real problem. There are definitely comments that should be downvoted for many reasons
Well ideally that’s how downvoting should work yes. In practice it’s abused a lot as a “I disagree” button.
I’d rather people just downvote and move on than engage with trolls or trade insults with each other.
i dont mind downvoted, but auto-removal by mods is kinda worst, because they will just set the filter to remove certain words, and then the account gets flagged.
Well, I don’t disagree with you. All I’m saying is that I’ve personally seen the downvote function being abused a lot. It kinda works for making interesting posts visible but in the comments it usually leads to certain arguments (even civil ones without insulting or trolling) being downvoted and hiding the comment. Karma is honestly meaningless to me, I just enjoy conversations and seeing different opinions even if I disagree with them. I see why it exists and in a perfect world it’s a great way to make moderation manageable on bigger platforms (like reddit and lemmy). Sadly we don’t live in a perfect world.
Trolling and insults usually break rules and can be reported. Comments like that deserve all the downvotes they get since they detract from discussion and don’t add to it. Although honestly most forums I visit deal with that pretty well too (with no karma system in place).
Is it really the fault of the system then, if it was set up with one intention but then was abused?
Btw, reddthat.com has downvotes disabled, so if you made an account there you would never see them again. The downvotes would still affect the sorting of the comments on other instances though, and thereby the frequency of replies.
I for one want downvotes, if I say something incorrect then I deserve it, but I don’t want downvotes from people who are just trolling - nor upvotes from them, nor replies either - bc then it takes some of my time and attention to try to guess what is going on, and sort true facts from their fictional views of the world.
So for me, it’s not “voting” that I would like to see addressed and fixed, but rather the presence of trolls. Which PieFed (and the Lemmy apps Sync and Connect) provide many tools to help with, e.g. it can block all users from an instance, unlike the Lemmy feature of the same name that merely acts as a community muting but does not actually block the users themselves in any way.
I love how PieFed is heavily pushing towards the democratization of moderation, but that’s another subject altogether I suppose:-).
You are not allowed to even nod at a reddit article anymore. The voting system on lemmy is broken though. Your votes shouldn’t follow you.
There are upsides and downsides to everything. Open votes means it’s harder to manufacture consent. That’s something someone on Reddit could do, where they bot vote their own content to the top of the feed and nobody would be none the wiser because you don’t know how and when someone voted. And it’s not really a “could do”, it’s something that (at least a few years ago) happened regularly.
But on Lemmy voting is open so if someone starts up a bot farm to push their content to the top it is (relatively) easy to discover.
shouldn’t follow you
Do you mean… across communities? PieFed has a community-specific metric iirc, or else it was coming soon, but Lemmy has nothing even close to this.
PieFed also has anonymous voting, but I am personally against that, as it seems too easy to abuse. I’d rather go the other way and make everything fully public. If you want to offer someone a criticism, then why not attach your username to that message being sent? Doing that would make for a much more civil environment IMHO.
You don’t have voting privacy here on Lemmy though, and theoretically instance admins could “punish” you based on voting patterns.
But decentralization helps that
If an instance becomes oppressive, nothing is stopping you from going to a new one. You can’t do that with Reddit. Let’s say my instance Lemmy.ca becomes awful, I can make a new account on another and still comment on this community. That’s the beauty of the Fediverse.
On the other hand, harvesting that sort of data is as simple as creating an instance and Federating with whatever sub you want to spy on
I mean any organization that’s a risk to use my data maliciously is one that can afford buying it, so I actually prefer this to my data being equally easy to access but reddit gets paid for it.
My comment isn’t too say that Reddit is good, but rather that we might be able to do things on Lemmy a bit better for user safety/privacy. Aggregating upvotes to an origin seems good to me
I hate to say it, but if you’re that concerned I wouldn’t up or downvote anything.
But then they would be easier to spoof and thereby enact vote manipulation.
PieFed was doing some experiments along those lines. Personally I don’t like the idea of fully anonymous voting and would rather go the other way and make them fully public - that would give people pause before doing things like downvoting every single reply to a post or every post in a community, or following people around and downvoting everything that they do.
Voting ideally would be a 2-way proposition where someone can offer their opinion, and the recipient should have the ability to choose whether to receive it or not - i.e. be able to block someone who is abusive, or whole entire instances where that is exceedingly common (cough Hexbear cough, and their very common alts on Lemmy.ml).
whatever sub you want to spy on
Is it really considered spying if the sub is pretty much shouting the information freely to whoever wants to request it?
I have intercepted this communication to say yes, it’s still spying! 🕵️
If I post to a public website in a plaintext protocol and my ISP also intercepts+logs that transmission, is it spying since the post was public anyhow?
So keep that in mind when interacting with the fediverse
These are public forums, it’s almost the point for things to be public. You could argue that votes shouldn’t be part of it, but ultimately due to the decentralized nature they must be communicated to all servers
They already do, some instances or communities will ban you for downvoting everything.
Which is kinda fair, why are you here if everything displeases you?
This article fails to mention that Huffman has previously praised Musk and how he runs Twitter.
Huffman said he saw Musk’s handling of Twitter, which he purchased last year, as an example for Reddit to follow.
More importantly he’s a doomsday prepper with fucked up views:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich
I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.
YES!! THANK YOU!!
huffman caught whiff of what’s happening, and this is just a stupid empty move to stir people up and try to cause chaos. everything that’s happening is so that people can manipulate and exploit investments. i got my second (or third? fourth?) permanent ban for bringing it up… well probably - i don’t know because reddit removes the comment it bans you for and doesn’t let you see it. so fucking done.
What a tiny little apocalypse fuckbag. Fuck Spez.
I might actually loathe him more than Musk.
If I end up on top after the apocalypse I’ll go out of my way to get him as a slave.
I planned on catching him for sport, followed by slowly serving him up like kebab to poorer after the apocalypse.
hunger games.
In Hunger Games they usually die swiftly, in this situation he’s being kept alive as long as possible.
#EnslaveSteveHuffman
I have no idea what you’re about but just based on this alone I’d let you share my tire barricade
Nice, thanks. Because the only way I’d survive the apocalypse would be as part of a community, I’m not exactly the warlord type. And plenty of people in the thread are on board with the same idea, so I’m fine with sharing spez.
they want something like a 4400 future, if you watched the show basically its the rich/wealthy enclaves in thier perfect city, while outside is like madmax/desolated. add in a little time travelling, superpowers and body possession arcs. i dont think it lasted many seasons.
I hope Reddit dies! Free Luigi!
oh, it won’t… it’ll turn into a weird cross between thedonald and 9gag in a few months. mark my words.
thedonaldgag?
oh jeez… someone please grab that domain before they get any ideas…
i know this may sound counterintuitive, but just look at they way they changed their minds about electric cars.
Gagdonald?
Dude something very weird is going on on Reddit. I’ve been through it with them for 12 years and this is like nothing I’ve ever seen.
I finally deleted the terrible Reddit app when my feed was blasted with repeated comments that “Reddit is far left and the left are domestic terrorists.” Sorry what?
These very weird not based in reality comments are posted almost verbatim in every thread. These people usually never respond to conversation.
It’s very very weird
I think your prediction is probably spot on. Reddit already feels like incel 9gag with a bunch of Russians pretending to be American college students.
Edit: oh if that’s your optimistic take then oh wow haha I am staying here on Lemmy I’ll start posting too
that’s my optimistic projection, i don’t see it going any better anyotherwise.
please stay. we need your doots. this is freedom from reddit.
There’s
This
Be careful, .world mods are likely to bad you for calling for action
But that’s not a call to action. Or is that the joke? Lol
You cannot wish for anything to die on .world, especially if it is a person or a corporate-person. The “centrist” .world mods look down on anything that makes capitalism or republicans look bad.
Wait, but which .world mods? I’m technically also one of those and I don’t think that way. lol
Mostly news, world, and politics. In that order. But, it has been a lot better since the FlyingAsshat got his pink slip.
Ohh I can see that with World News mods. Yep, can attest some of them are dipshits. That’s why I have them blocked and their sub too.
The instance operators are just trying not to get legally accountable for it? Call for murder is prosecutable in many countries. Also in the Netherlands where that instance is located.
Removed by mod
Just the fear of that alone was enough to cause dmv.social to shut down, back during the waves of CSAM attacks, before the automated software was implemented to filter it out.
So what you’re saying is I’m right.
This is 100% accurate. I’d rather people say what they feel they need to say, regardless of my personal opinion. But we’d rather be cautious and remove the more blatant advocations of violence if it means we get to keep the lights on.
The entire system wants you to forget about Luigi and the entire issue. Sort of memory hole it like so many other things and let them punish him in secret. So it’s no surprise Reddit and others will try to Streisand it.
Exactly. That’s the best part. There would have been a Luigi article every once in a while giving an update or whatever. Nothing is going on with him rn. But blocking his name is getting everyone talking about him again, and some are switching platforms because of it.
Streisand effect, much like how Msm was trying to paint as a degenerate killer, and made people find out why he did it
They have been suppressing Luigi news every chance it pops up
I spoke with the moderation team for r/PublicFreakout, who told me: “It started with r/comics.” In late January, a cartoonist was permanently banned from the comics subreddit for “Nazi apologia,” after posting a comment dismissing the idea that Musk had made a Nazi salute at the inauguration (a gesture that, notably, had inspired a wide swath of moderators to block X links from their subreddits). Musk found that cartoonist’s tweet and called his ban “insane,” inspiring his followers to assail r/comics.
That’s some bull shit. Well we are seeing a serge. So come on down! The fediverse will talk when reddit won’t allow you.
Musk then decided to attack whitepeopetwitter and got it banned temporarily, reddit call it brigadin. I was in a sub about a particular Asian YouTubers and they did this to the channels sub, it was making them look bad because their channel was declining from all the sht they did to their former employees
Now why would Steve Huffman be afraid of Luigi?
luigi doesnt look like an alien.
Luigi Luigi Luigi Luigi Luigi
If you’d only said it three times, you would’ve summoned him. So close!
(L)
We have free speech here.
Kinda. We have a bunch of small instances each with its own set of rules/norms. Lemmy.ml for example is not going to take a very different approach to moderation then lemmynsfw…
Everyone says that, but I haven’t run into any issues and .ml is the main one I use
You’re lucky! I did run into issues.
deleted by creator
Since you deleted your comment within the last 15 minutes of posting it, it still shows up in my inbox.
“Try saying something bad about China”
Okay.
The CCP is a blight on humanity, just like the IDF/Israeli government, Russia, and now including the US. Fuck China, I’ll never set foot in that country (except maybe Hong Kong) if I ever had the opportunity.
But in an .ml sub, like [email protected] or whatever they have over there, or even the official announcements sub. Bonus points if you reply to a federated Hexbear user with that.
Winnie the Pooh sucks my ass.
He want dat honey.
Now say that in a .ml-run community
And you might never. But lemmynsfw is a porn instance whereas .ml is not. Hence different goals for moderation.
Reminds me of the HD decryption key fiasco on digg. Everyone just kept posting it over and over in every thread. Moderators started banning people. People started jumping ship to Reddit.
It’s what caused the first digg exodus, with the better known redesign failure being the second.
It’s kind of sad that it isn’t as pronounced as it was on Digg.
at least on reddit people are complaining about the shadowbanning thats been going on, they said it was also unearned and criticized teh admins why were some accts shadowbanned for 10years,.
They’ve also really amped up the content moderation bots and are on the warpath for anything perceived to be bot accounts. Shadow bans are being given out for accounts that are hours old and haven’t even posted.
I don’t get it. Reddit’s so much more egregious than digg was - why haven’t more users jumped ship? the soul of the platform was broken with the API change, yet most users stayed, and the ones who did leave haven’t shown up here.
was Lemmy just not ready?
Because the user experience didn’t change, so it wqsn’t obvious unless you kept up with specific news.
Also, it’s still where all the porn is.
On r/RedditAlternatives people say e.g.:
- it’s software made and run by tankies
- it’s way more difficult to figure out how to use, than e.g. Reddit, much like Bluesky is easier than Mastodon
- it looks so much more empty, especially for topics not about using Linux or generic memes - where content at?
- they don’t need apps and will continue so long as Reddit hasn’t killed off old-Reddit yet
- they don’t want to bother with change, and their niche sub is where their current community is located, with very few others willing to move, hence they do not either (crabs in a bucket)
Obviously all of these have at least a germ of truth, as well as being mixed in with laziness and believing falsehoods, like that Reddit isn’t already changing underneath them, so that even using old-Reddit as they have for years, it’s not the same anymore as it was.
Also, Lemmy isn’t doing well in terms of adding new features to capitalize on attaining more users - e.g. in many ways the software here is even more authoritian than there, since while there is a modlog there is no modmail, no notification upon removal or locking of your content (notice the similarity here to being shadow-banned?), and the modlog simply says “mod”, so there is zero recourse to understand or appeal a mod decision. Plus lemmy.ml routinely instance-bans people from communities that they’ve never even heard of, for a single criticism of something going on in Russia, China, or North Korea (which ofc would be perfectly understandable for a rule violation, except that’s never stated anywhere in any rule set!?!?!? how are people supposed to follow the “rules” when nowhere are they ever written down!?).
And don’t even get me started on the TROLLS here!!! That is the express purpose (this one even written down, tbf!:-) of Hexbear, to have the opportunity to “dunk” on liberals - which itself is totally fine, so long as both parties give consent to it, but the trouble comes when it spills out from those communities, or when someone stumbles into them by replying to a post seen in the All feed, without the ability to read the side-bar text first explaining what it is all about.
Lemmy requires ENORMOUS efforts to curate someone’s feed, by blocking users, communities, and even whole entire instances (speaking of, the Lemmy feature that “does that” actually does not do that - it would have been better named as a community mute, since it still allows users from the instance to appear in communities not located specifically on that instance), and in the meantime people get bullied and name-called for their beliefs. Surprise: most normies do not enjoy that happening to them, hence just walk away rather than put up with all the gaslighting and other crap coming at them from Lemmy users. We aren’t terribly welcoming here, in many ways.:-(
Elon Musk. President Donald Trump’s extremely online lackey has aimed plenty of ire at Reddit from his perch at DOGE, first attacking the federal workers he’s been firing en masse for discussing the chaos on r/FedNews, then expanding his purview from there.
Fuck fElon, fuck spez, fuck trump, and fuck the american oligarchy.
Fuck all oligarchies and oligarchs.
Luigi is not a hero. He is an alleged hero.
I have just left Reddit and deleted my account, on account of this.
Fuck Reddit.
I read the article and I couldn’t believe how much of an effort they’re making to silence people. This is the world we live in. It’s so sad.
Congrats on dropping your balls to become a man
Mod:
Please link directly to articles, and provide archive links in the body or comments. I’m not locking or removing this at this time, but please take note in the future.
FWIW, seeing that the link was to an archive encouraged me to check out this Lemmy post. I understand the policy decision, but I wish I could see an indication in my feed that an archive link is available.
Understandable, although it is difficult and time-consuming to moderate such links, and nearly impossible if they are allowed outright. In this case, there was already significant discussion before it was identified (as well as other factors), so I made a judgement call to permit the rule violation. This is a user who should know better.
You may be interested in using the tesseract lemmy client, which provides a smart linkbox on every post which includes archive links, etc.
I like being able to see the source before I consider investigating further - archive.org links at the top level make that harder.
Not even an acknowledgement from OP, that’s just disrespectful and shitty.
Oh no, somebody didn’t respect a faceless mod on the internet?? What is this world coming to!
Excuse me, I have a face. It is clearly a lemming astronaut holding up a peace sign. * huffs off stomping in my space boots *
i was reading the same post on reddit, people agree with the enshittifcation process going on,.
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I suggest using a euphemism for Luigi from now on. Sort of like how Pres Xi of China was “panda” on chinese social media to avoid censors. How about Muski? Eloni?
Green Mario
I think you mean green Mario
Yep, sorry. I realized my mistake and fixed it right before you replied.
Hopefully we do none of that.
I thought it was really interesting seeing someone get banned from lemm.ee and they were able to still access other instances.
They can just make a new account on another instance and come back anyway, it’s like whack-a-mole.
You can always switch instances if your lemmy server implements policies you don’t like
Yep, you can’t control Lemmy, because it’s free, open source, and decentralized.
The only way to control it is to make its users go away, and whaddya know, we’re still growing!
You can switch instances?
Yep!
You can’t port your account but you can easily create a new account. I think that’s what they meant by that.
Ah, I see.
However, you can export your subscriptions/blocks through your profile and import them to your new instance. No, you can’t take your entire “identity” with you, but is that really so bad?
But can you know that what you see through your instance is being manipulated?
Wouldn’t be that hard to archive and validate your posts and it’s so easy on lemmy to leave a bad instance.
easy on lemmy to leave a bad instance
Too damn easy! That’s also why I have a couple alts lying around in case I need to jump ship again.
That… doesn’t really answer the question. So it’s relatively easy to leave, but how would you know that you needed to in the first place?
If the voting of posts on an instance were being manipulated, or the visibility of certain sources or users, or if commercial influences were affecting administrative decisions or moderator behavior, how would you know?
How do you discover that you are in a bubble? That the information being presented to you is intentionally skewed in order to project a narrative?
How do you exit Plato’s cave if you don’t know that you are in it?
By having an external source of truth to compare against. In this case you could spin up your own instance, and as a mod you could see where all the votes were coming from, so you could simulate having the same set of defederations as some other instance. Anything that does not match up then warrants further examination.
People did something similar and found that lemmy.ml was modifying its internal database logs - though it was claimed that it was merely due to the newest software release that it alone was running at the time, before it got rolled out to become public. I never followed through on that further.
That’s all somewhat expensive to do, but basically if you run your own instance then you have total control. (Even then, you won’t know what’s going on inside of the OTHER instances that you do not control!).
The
