So wait.
GitHub is Microsoft?
EDIT: Okay, fuck that. I was just getting all set up there but not now.
I am trying to decide between PyCharm and VS Code for my Python IDE. I was leaning toward VS Code, but they’re Microsoft too, aren’t they?
Can I suggest vim or emacs?
Has been since 2018, and acquisition news caused quite an upset at the time.
PyCharm is a solid choice. It just works. But if you’re open to another editor, take a look at Zed. It has python support too. It’s super snappy and way less bloated than the others.
If you like VSCode you can try VSCodium which supports almost all features of VSCode but should be fully FOSS without Microsoft proprietary blobs.
I can forgive not knowing github is MS.
but, how in the actual fuck did you not know VS Code is MS?
do you just close your eyes and code blind all day long?
Maybe they are just getting started with learning programming, be kind.
Ding ding ding ding ding!
Like, just BRAND NEW, leaning baby programmer!
Nope, not that. Haven’t earned the name ‘programmer’ at all.
Just a guy who is starting to learn and is probably going to abandon learning but is going to try anyway and is trying not to fuck up in the beginning! Guy.
Plus I’m 63. So learning anything at all is like nailing boards to sand.
Maybe I learned it, but that was last week. Can’t expect me to remember last week shit.
If you want to use VSCode without the Microsoft bits, they actually provide that officially. VSCodium is VSCode with all the Microsoft-specific bits stripped out (or rather, not added in in the first place, at compile time). It’s all open source too so you can either verify yourself or have a knowledgeable friend do an audit on your behalf.
I use VSCode at work a lot and enjoy it quite a bit. A good alternative would be to use Kate/Kwrite with all of the coding plugins and the linter plugins turned on, the experience is pretty close to VSCode/ium without store extensions.
Keep learning and asking questions! Maybe programming isn’t something for you or maybe it’ll be a big part of your life. You’ll never know without giving it a try.
Please don’t get discouraged by the curmudgeons. Not all of us experienced in the field have given into grouchiness.
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Might check out Zed. Relatively new editor from the folks behind Atom and treesitter. Extremely fast with an excellent interface and vim mode. The second best vim mode behind Neovim.
I’ve been testing Zed for the last couple weeks for some Vue / Nuxt projects. It works great for that and seems very stable so far, but is also developed by a for-profit. Curious to see how the Zedless project works out.
I actually think their comments when it first went open source are pretty compelling. I don’t disagree with you and I’m interested to see how zedless fares, but new projects of this scale are tough to do well and quickly. I’m pretty happy with their current approach.
Zed is great! Not as many features as IntelliJ, but insanely fast, and new features are being added all the time.
I’m also very new to doing any type of programming, and also don’t remember things from last week lol. I use Kate, it’s from KDE which is from the Linux world but works on windows! They have some other good programs that also work on windows (and Mac too I think!) if you’re trying to extract yourself from there. I don’t know python very well so don’t know if Kate is the best choice compared to PyCharm for your use case, but might be a good allrounder.
Continue.
Oh come on, it was a really big deal. M$ bought GitHub. FOSS collectively shit itself for a week
Github was bought in 2018. For all we know, OP could have been 10 at the time
OP said they were 63 and only now getting into programming. I can understand not knowing these things tbh.
It was also ages ago. Any discussion of it will have long since died down so if OP is new to programming then they won’t have come across this.
Yeah they bought them almost 10 years now?
I recommend Codeberg or Forgejo!
VS Code has a fully open source base which excludes proprietary extensions and default telemetry ( kind of how AOSP is for Android)
Check here for more info:
https://github.com/microsoft/vscode/wiki/Differences-between-the-repository-and-Visual-Studio-Code
And VSCodium is the project that releases builds from the VS Code source code. Privacy-conscious developers should use VSCodium (which is fully FOSS) instead of Visual Studio Code (which is partially proprietary and includes tracking).
100%
I use this on my private setup, but struggling to get tge Python language server to properly work. Apprently the VS Code one is unavailable. What do people use for this on VS Codium?
kind of how AOSP is for Android)
https://9to5google.com/2025/03/28/google-android-aosp-changes-announcement/
I know 😢
iswas
Yes, also remember to completely avoid Typescript and C# since they are also Microsoft. And Rust since heavy ties to Amazon. Don’t look for a job on Linkedin (where most listings are posted) because that’s also Microsoft. Actually, just to spare you the time, avoid programming altogether and do something like farming, since no Big Tech influence there. /s
I do like the work Microsoft has done with typescript itself, but more and more I’m seeing they are trying to tie up the language to VSCode, treating other editors as “second class citizens” for it and that has started to make me reconsider things.
Yes, also remember to completely avoid Typescript and C# since they are also Microsoft.
This, but unironically.
I’m retired and doing hobby projects in Python and java, so I get choices (including not playing) but wtf, big tech figured out how to take over open source?
That’s particularly evil.
Python’s creator and BDfL works at Microsoft.
I’m not trying to be like some HOLY MOUNTAIN that no unclean things can ever touch.
I’m just trying to keep myself free. I’ll use people’s stuff. If that starts becoming bondage, I’m out
A cynical explanation would be using the EEE theory to explain all of this.
A more nuanced one would be that corporations benefit from open source since it creates an easier pipeline to onboard engineers and they also benefit from the free labor that people put into the projects out of passion. Whether they want to kill OSS after embracing it is debatable, but they definitely want to have as much leverage on it as possible.
Bill Gates stated: “One thing we have got to change in our strategy – allowing Office documents to be rendered very well by other people’s browsers is one of the most destructive things we could do to the company. We have to stop putting any effort into this and make sure that Office documents very well depend on proprietary IE capabilities. Anything else is suicide for our platform. This is a case where Office has to avoid doing something to destroy Windows.”
That Wikipedia is a gold mine of evil.
They can support these languages because they have the resources to do so.
I feel like a good illustration would be a bicycle.
- My bicycle works fine, a little slow, but it beats walking, and requires little to no outside resources or upkeep.
- My neighbor, Joe Microsoft, slaps an 80cc motor on my bike. It’s a lot faster, and less work for me, and Joe keeps it full of gas and tuned up, and fixes it when it breaks.
- I need Joe now to support my biking. I no longer have the resources to do it at this level, but Joe does.
Is that about right? Are we selling open source for speed and convenience?
So why were they blocked?
they were blocked for supporting russia invasion of Ukraine.
Source?
I mean the owners of this “Estonian” company are Russian and Belarussian (company ownership is public record here in Estonia and foreigners can easily start companies), so I wouldn’t be surprised, but I also hate how easily unsubstantiated claims spread on the Internet.
One of their main contributors are in US sanctioned regions (Russia) so they can’t access it.
Really! Can’t believe them. Yeah fk microsoft.
Russia is being sanctioned because of its aggressive war against Ukraine.
Microsoft aren’t the bad guys for enforcing international sanctions.
So what about the organic map users. They should ban the contributor if they need to ban it soo bad.
that’s practically impossible. TOR is alive and well, as if any rando in any country sanctioned by the u.s. cares.
of course they could Great China Firewall the shit out of everything and still fail.
but we’re on the downward spiral, so be gleeful!
Sanctions are bullshit economic violence. This is a great example.
Probably better this economic violence than I dunno, the physical violence Russia has exerted on the Ukrainian populace?
Not sure why you’re arguing “better” when we have both.
I don’t think we’re currently doing both of those things to Russia.
K
So a person that happens to be iving in a sanctioned country, makes them banned? Bullshit
yes, that is the purpose of sanction. to target the lowest rung of society for supporting and promoting the invasion of Ukraine.
It is bullshit, you’re right.
I assume most Russian GitHub users use a VPN to avoid it. He has chosen not to in order to make a point.
The real worry is what happens when the US declares sanctions on random allies in their stupid “trade war”…
Once the US starts saying that nobody who trades with the US can deal with Canada, Denmark, Mexico, etc… then it starts to get interesting.
Or if the US fucks up enough for the rest of the world to put a UNO reverse card on the US. If China and the EU do that, the US is fucked within a few months. A “you can’t trade with either of these markets when you trade with the US” would be interesting.
And tbh, from what I gather it’s absolutely a option that is being discussed in diplomatic circles. The main reason it’s not on the table is the huge amount of debts the USA has in China. And the EU will use it as a backup arrow for “further escalation”. Maybe someone should tell Trump who actually delivers the machines for the factories he wants to “bring back”. Hint: It’s not the US.
Yes,you understand how sanctions work.
A person living in a sanctioned country can also no longer buy certain things, travel to certain countries or use certain services. You couldn’t buy a Boeing Plane during WW2 in Germany as well…
And considering that Russia is waging a fucking genocidal war and a hybrid war in Europe and a majority (according to relatively independent statistics) of the population stil supports that shit and has done so for a long time (when they still could have changed course) it’s god damn right these sanctions exist.
BTW: Cuba is being sanctioned by the US for simply nationalising US held companies (Fidel Castro wasn’t that much of a communist in the beginning) since 1960 and basically none gave or gives a rats ass.
a majority (according to relatively independent statistics) of the population stil supports that shit and has done so for a long time
Most Russians are afraid to talk about politics at all. Their responses when questioned are either “I agree with what the government is doing” or “I don’t talk politics.”
We should be strengthening our ties with these oppressed people in order to help them, and help Ukraine as a result. Instead we’re doing the “average intelligence” play of furthering their oppression while funneling money to the MIC.
This war has been a great example of how many useful idiots are around us.
Yes. That’s how sanctions work.
Part of the intention is to pressure citizens of the country for violating international law so they exert pressure on their governments to stop.
Another part is to remove the use of tooling to support the sanctioned nation.
Russia could stop the war and problem is solved. This isn’t Microsoft being the bad guy, this is Microsoft following international law.
Does that work?
Is it right to tell random people “hey you, it’s your job to break local laws and topple your dictator, we could invade you with actual trained military people but that would be inconvenient for us”?
“Is it right?” Are you kidding? Yes, it’s obviously a better alternative than invading another country and killing people. It’s one of the ways we have learned, as a species, to avoid massive wars and losses of life. If you’re advocating for war as an alternative then you should fuck off and die so you don’t get other people killed in the process.
Is a strictly enforced economic sanction better than an all out regime change invasion/occupation of another sovereign country that costs the lives of millions… we’ll have to get back to you on that one.
No, it’s not right.
People on these forums have been conditioned to see the world through their fairytale-lens and nothing else, though.
A part of oppression is removing people’s ability to fight back. Anyone who holds the average Russian responsible for the war is just playing into the hands of the cabal. It’s like they never heard of Navalny, or any other Russian dissenters.
These people need our help. We shouldn’t victim-blame them and say they need to topple a dictator all on their own.
Same goes for North Korea.
Microsoft literally had no choice.
when you’re a corporation with billions of dollars and US politicians cost millions on the high end, you can choose to do whatever you want.
“Microsoft continues to work with Russians despite sanctions due to ongoing war in Ukraine” is probably not a headline they want to see.
Of course not, but can you say that it’s not convenient for them to stiffle foss alternatives to microsoft/apple/google software? many open source projects are at least partially made by russian developers.
It is still an unnecessary risk for them.
true, but let’s not pretend that they were without agency in this decision and in decisions leading up to the current context.
When the big tech guys showed up to the inauguration and sat in the front row to pay tribute it was such a clear example of how capital always yields to authoritarians.
Exactly. The real issue is the sanctions against Russia. Why those sanctions involve FOSS projects, I’ll never understand.
Government and major corporations are the exact same entity in the US.
I wish, but when I am looking gor a job the employer will look at the green squares and leetcode score or something stupid like that instead of my projects or having a discussion in general.
Wrong thread?
I presume they mean the green squares on their GitHub account.
This is great. Now I can submit issues easier and look into contribution. Storing projects on Github is awful. The signup process is a mess.
Boycott all US based services.
This is the way.
Especially github. I thought all of you were supposed to leave that when microsoft bought it. I never used it but I definitely wouldn’t these days…
American here, please do this.
All of our companies are run by scumbags taking advantage of useful idiots. We need more options and legitimate competition.
Sucks for Organic Maps but that’s the FAANG.
is forgejo the same thing as codeberg? it looks similar… just curious
Forgejo is such a terrible name 🙄
That’s because it’s using a language you don’t speak.
I love Esperanto, so to me forgejo is very cool
Foregejo : codeberg = lemmy : blahaj.zone
Forgejo being a fork of gitea
And gitea is the fork of gogs, just to complete the family tree
I believe Forgejo lets you self host while Codeberg provides the hosting.
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CodeBerg is a Forgejo instance
Codeberg is a forgejo instance, yes
There is some serious crapitalist hate for organic maps. I never heard of it util is was taken off the play store for a bit. I side loaded it that day.
Organic Maps is not at feature parity with paid options but it is pretty damn good for FOSS. I use it almost daily for driving around city/suburban Australia and it very rarely gives me bad directions - certainly no more than the paid option i previously used (Sygic).
Its also a really great base project to build on top of. The routing system is a plug in library which can be easily replaced. That means if someone wants to build something that collects and utilizes live data for traffic/construction avoidance they can totally do that. Adding new map layers is also a big one that they made sure is going to be easy to do.
Has anyone actually created a traffic plugin yet? This is one of the main reasons I use Magic Earth still. I regularly bounce between that, Organic, and OsmAnd. They all have slightly different features.
Has anyone actually created a traffic plugin yet?
The organic team doesnt wanna deal with collecting user data so they wont do it. Getting live location data from millions of people basically requires using and feeding into google services and thats a no go.
Ofcourse someone else could do it, but thats just a waste of time, if google can cut you off from their API at any point.
Even if you start your own project, no matter what you do, there will always have to be some company that collects all the data. That company no matter how cool and FOSS will eventually be forced to cooperate with law enforcement and then you are back to what we have now with google.
Location data is just too sensitive and impossible to anonymize properly.
But isn’t there a possibility to fetch data from official websites (like https://stau.info/ in Germany) around your place? It won’t be as good as google, but better than nothing.
As long as it only pulls data and doesnt share any its not as bad. But each of these local services most likely use different APIs and formats, so implementing it wont be so easy. For just large highways its realistic imo, but if you want data for inside cities it becomes impossible.
If the database of traffic info become so large that it’s impossible to download it all at once it means you have to selectively download data for your location/route which makes it possible to infer user location again.
It works well, and I’m a huge fan and contributor to Open Street Maps (which it’s bassed on). But it doesn’t do traffic, which is unfortunately wha I need from my navigation apps 99% of the time.
If they had a paid option to cover the costs of using TomTom’s traffic API, I’d make the switch.
But it is one of the best when it comes to cycling or walking. I’ve been using it for years now.
Why would it get removed? Can’t have any competition for Google Maps or what? Well, it won’t get removed on F-droid
Well, now I know what will be my daily driver. Thanks!
Anything to reduce the advertising revenue of these jackasses
I’m looking forward to the time Forgejo starts supporting Forgefed
Yeah with their recent grant it looks like it’s the next priority, that will be pretty neat:
Why did they get removed? I feel like I’m missing a whole backstory here.
Seemingly one of the contributors has visited a disputed region and logged into GitHub from there. By law (export controls) Microsoft must not provide service to that place. So some automatism flagged the account and also the organic maps repo. So far so normal. But either Microsoft dragged it’s feet in communicating and resolving the issue or the organic maps team was not doing their part in the process. Doesn’t matter, the outcome is still worth it.
By law (export controls) Microsoft must not provide service to that place. So some automatism flagged the account and also the organic maps repo. So far so normal.
not normal at all! don’t serve the website. that is normal. but ban anyone logging in seemingly from there, on sight? that’s literally “shoot first, ask later” in tech! totally abnormal, if this is the reason
Don’t shoot the messenger. The regulations are pretty draconic. I have to ensure the training for that every year.
What are we, North Korea? We can’t accept information from certain countries? I can understand being wary of state-sponsored information terrorism, but “Hey, here’s a Cuban road? A good place for a guava and cheese pastry?”
Come on. This was really the trigger?
Apparently, one of the contributors did a push while visiting Cuba and since Cuba in sanctioned by US they just blocked the entire repo. Insane.
Source?
Probably.
No self-respecting DEV would update README.md…
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43492578
Other places mentioned ‘U.S. sanctioned region’.
They’re a direct competitor to one of microsoft’s products, and a better one at that.
I’ve switched to CalyxOS 6 or 7 months ago, OrganicMaps came with it. I have never looked back.
Who could have ever anticipated Git hub going to shoot after Microsoft bought it
Microsoft products definitely gets worse over time lol
don’t worry more ai slop in github will fix it
you can say shit on here. also fuck and cock and ass. it’s the internet
Could you like, stop policing other peoples speech? I am sure they know they can say shit on the internet, they just choose not to.
how about you police my policing, and then i will police my whole ass
AssCopsAreBastards
you can’t just let them do whatever they want
BANG BANG BANG ASS POLICE OPEN UP
FUCK
Some people just like swearing, it seems. Like it makes them feel like an adult or something, I dunno. Duck it.
Very interesting 🤔💭
Whyyy???
Anyone have the story behind this? Fuck Microsoft and all that, but Github has historically been pretty good when it comes to not banning people for stupid reasons. Usually, it’s a DMCA thing or a valid security threat.
Recently, there was some controversy about closed source code powering a component of the project (https://github.com/orgs/organicmaps/discussions/9837) but I didn’t keep up with that. Could this ban be related to that?
Some contributer got flagged by US sanctions based on their IP, I think
That’s weird. Russians and Americans aren’t sanctioned from working on projects together. The sanctions are mostly targeted towards industry and defense. Tucker Carlson works for Russian media and freely travels between the two countries. There has to be something more to this, like the IP came from a known state actor.
They got unbanned, but it eroded trust that it won’t happen again
Welcome to the “free world”.
conservative: says a racial slur
Online Platform: bans user
conservative: “sO mUcH fOr tHe tOlEraNt lEfT 😡”
Person: *makes an app for everyone to use*
Twitter baby: “Racial slurs! Racial slurs!”
Removed by mod
Eh, you don’t really have a point when people get banned for saying men aren’t women.
Please elaborate? What exactly do you mean?
Removed by mod
Let me give you an analogy.
I was born in the People’s Republic of China. I immigrated to the United States of America when I was not even 10. I grew up in America, I grew attached to the principles of Freedom and Democracy. I went through the proper channels and I obtained Citizenship through the proper way. I am an American.
If someone were to tell me that I’m “not American”, and that because I was “born Chinese, I must be Chinese for the rest of my life”; or, in your phrasing: “A Chinese person cannot become American” you’d be a xenophobe.
Gender is a social contruct. If a man wants to be a woman, or a woman wants to be a man, just let them. Its not denying that they have XX or XY chromosomes, that is what their biology says. But being a “Man” or “Woman” are labels society attributes to those chromosomes, just like the concept of Nationality.
TLDR: Please just let people be whoever they want to be. If you start attacking people’s identity, nobody is gonna wanna talk to you. If you want to spread transphobia, you can go to twitter. Enjoy your nazi bar.
Censored for saying:
“People get banned for saying men aren’t women. You don’t have a point when mods abuse their power. Looks like my comment was censored for even pointing that out.”
Literally just proving me right and the original commenter wrong every time mods abuse their power here.
Russia is free to fuck off out of Ukraine, simple as.
I’m sure there is a lot that the random developer who happened to be born in Russia can do about that.
“Bro, just overthrow your government”. ~ random redditor, probably.
Ironically the US is more likely to drop the sanctions before Germany, where Codeberg is based.
Edit: They’ve gone self hosted. That makes more sense.
Viva la self-hosting!
Power to the people!
