Back in January Microsoft encrypted all my hard drives without saying anything. I was playing around with a dual boot yesterday and somehow aggravated Secureboot. So my C: panicked and required a 40 character key to unlock.

Your key is backed up to the Microsoft account associated with your install. Which is considerate to the hackers. (and saved me from a re-install) But if you’ve got an unactivated copy, local account, or don’t know your M$ account credentials, your boned.

Control Panel > System Security > Bitlocker Encryption.

BTW, I was aware that M$ was doing this and even made fun of the effected users. Karma.

  • DicJacobus@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    When I switched to a new CPU I got a bit locker message and it was one of my biggest computer scares ever. I couldn’t remember if the shop that assembled my pc would have enabled it or not. And wasn’t available to contact.

    I had to take a risk. If I continued there was a 50 50 chance my shit would have been bricked. Thankfully. That shop had the foresight to NOT randomly enable features the client didn’t ask for

    • sqozenode@lemmy.world
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      I ran into a similar problem after a bios update.

      Turns out “this update may wipe out your bitlocker key” also means “if you don’t have bitlocker turned on, it’ll just wipe out your windows key.”

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    I’ve actually had this occur before to a machine I specifically disabled the tpm on so that it wouldn’t happen (it was an account less frozen kiosk). I was fuming the entire time I spent rebuilding it.

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    I got into coding in the last few days. I have a project. Bumping into this while I’m trying to learn this shit? Fuck me. You know, we could just stop using money

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    This was the exact same situation I experienced with my old Surface 6. Started to look into Linux firmware on Surface devices and deactivated secure boot because it wouldn’t boot Ventoy at all and do nothing, so I figured to try again with no secure boot. It still didn’t work so I turned it on again, but was then greeted with this Bitlocker screen which I didn’t even know it had activated up until this point. I set up a local account so I had no key to reset or something and was literally not able to do anything besides reinstalling the entire system.

    Luckily I had nothing important on it lol

    Weirdly the activation was saved on the MS servers so I didn’t need to do that again at least (was a preinstalled system so I wouldn’t have known the activation key anyways, I thought “When it doesn’t work I’ll switch to Linux fully because I’m not paying for that garbage system”).

    After I updated Ventoy I was able to boot again even with secure boot on, there seems to have been an issue with that specific version.

    I had Windows on my device since I bought it (around 2018) only upgraded to W11. It never mentioned anything about Bitlocker before this incident so if I had important stuff on it it would have been so over. Well, never save important files on Windows without backup is what I got out of it

    This caused me literally bigger problems than my switch to Arch Linux after having only used Windows the entire time xD

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        2 months ago

        Disabling it entirely is possible, but I want to keep the encryption and set a proper password for it instead of the stupidly long recovery key. That and similar features seem to be locked behind the pro version.

    • REDACTED@infosec.pub
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      Do home versions even come with bitlocker? There might be nothing to adjust

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        They do and it auto activates when you add a Microsoft account. It cannot be turned off on the home edition as it doesn’t have the full bitlocker settings. Came across this one on some machine i was working on a while ago and i ended up having to pull the SSD from the customers machine and plug it into something with pro to actually disable bitlocker.

    • nargis@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      I had a windows home installation too, local rules may vary, but mine (India), I could turn it off from the command prompt.

      manage-bde -off C: (or any other drive) was what I used.

      Edit: nevermind, you meant that you wanted to change the key. That’s not possible, unfortunately, you might have to use some other encryption software.

    • Wrufieotnak@feddit.org
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      2 months ago

      Might be, so better check like this user did:

      Just checked my wife’s laptop. Local account, secure boot off, windows 10. It had a message telling me to setup a microsoft account to ‘finish encrypting the device’. I clicked turn off, and it’s currently decrypting the hard drive. Blech.

  • HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    2 months ago

    Fuck Microsoft.

    I remember back in highschool a buddy encrypted his harddrive, didn’t backup his key. He Lost ALOT when I upgraded his comp

    • gnygnygny@lemm.ee
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      That’s not a Microsoft issue. Loose your key and the door will stay close whatever it is.

    • Aganim@lemmy.world
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      But how is that relevant to your ‘Fuck Microsoft’ if he knowingly encrypted his device, which is how you make it sound?

      I’ve enabled FDE on one of my Linux devices, I’ve already had to mount the filesystem in a rescue environment once because a failed update caused the system to be unable to boot. I would also have been hosed if I had lost the encryption key. Ok not really, because that’s what backups are for, but you hopefully get the point.

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          I know, and the ‘fuck Microsoft’ is completely warranted for that. But shouting that and then coming up with a story where somebody enabled it themselves and subsequently lost their key, that doesn’t make a lot of sense. Unless it was to illustrate the dangers of FDE, but in that case the point could have been made a bit clearer.

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          It logs literally everything you do with screenshots, then sends it to M$ despite their assurances that it would be local only.

          Super invasive!

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            I’m not aware of them uploading the screenshotted data, not for now anyways.

            • GoodLuckToFriends@lemmy.today
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              The data is indexed and parsed somehow. The last report on it that I saw had a picture of a semi-famous person be properly indexed under the person’s name, despite it being a picture that was taken by the person talking about recall, which means the image was not public. Whatever recall was doing, it analyzed the picture, and that’s probably not a local process.

        • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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          It takes a screenshot every five seconds and runs an LLM over it to extract text. Then there’s a UI where you can query it for what you did in the past.

          It came under fire when they wanted to introduce it last year, because it stored all that data on your disk in unencrypted form. Meaning if anyone manages to run malicious code on your system, they don’t need to do the collecting themselves anymore, but can rather just send off any screenshotted passwords or whatever other secret things you might’ve been doing on your PC at any point in time. In particular, Microsoft had claimed that the data would be encrypted and it wasn’t. Didn’t even need special permissions to access it.

          No idea, if they fixed the encryption now, or if this is just a case of the shitstorm having died down, so they roll it out now. But yeah, even with encryption, the implications aren’t great. If your parents or boss or law enforcement want to know what you were doing on your PC, they now have an exact history. And Microsoft could still change their mind and decide to upload all your data at any point in the future.

            • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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              Yeah, good question. I imagine the screenshotting itself is largely negligible, although obviously not free either. I don’t know when the LLM gets to do its job. Theoretically, it could be delayed until some point where there’s not much going on on your PC.

              At some point, Microsoft wanted to roll out these AI features only on PCs which have an NPU, which is basically an additional CPU with a different architecture optimized for pattern recognition and such. I don’t know, if they still hold onto that requirement, but it would mean that it wouldn’t hog your CPU at least.

              They have been somewhat desperate to roll out Recall, because it was the only semi-useful out of a handful of features that they came up with to somehow integrate AI into Windows. So, that’s why I’m never quite sure, what requirements they’re still holding onto.

  • spicehoarder@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    I just installed Manjaro on my daily driver over the weekend. My entire steam library just works. My dev tools all work(better) on Linux, and free office is nice and familiar. Fuck widows.

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    You know, this is actually one Windows decision I agree with. Encryption should be default, especially on portable devices like laptops. For an OS aimed at people who want to use their computers, rather than understand them, you have to choose an encryption that works by default for most of your non-tech-savvy users.

    If they want their data truly in their own hands, or full control, use Linux.

    If they want to use Windows, but not rely on a Microsoft account for recovery, get the bitlocker recovery key and write it down (which you can do).

    But I think this looks like a sane default.

    (Full disclosure, I don’t use Windows for anything I care about!)

    • highball@lemmy.world
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      Would be fine. The problem is, Microsoft is encrypting drives and not telling anybody about it. Average users have no clue what any of this is and are completely unaware they need to create a passphrase for safe keeping.

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      Respectfully, hard disagree and terrible take. I work in IT, and your stance only makes sense if people have some tech knowledge. Which is never going to happen for the average person.

      I can’t tell you how many older people I’ve had to tell that I can’t save their grandkids first pics because of bitlocker

      • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
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        That still happens without bitlocker. Computers are dropped. Facebook passwords are forgotten.

        I acknowledge automatic encryption is going to make some more cases of lost data, but, with respect, I think the benefit of making fewer cases of stolen data is worth it. I agree with the other commenter that users should be made aware of it more clearly.

        Also, as much as I hate the push to Microsoft accounts, I have to admit it helps mitigate this problem: if all ordinary users have an account looking after their master keys, then they can turn to that when they forget their login password etc. but the opportunistic thief on the train can’t (as easily). Not every grandma has a Millennial relative at hand to boot Linux to rescue files off her HDD. And for those who don’t like to trust their master keys to Microsoft/Apple/Google? There’s Linux. And external backups. And saving your password somewhere safe.

        • acid_falcon@lemmy.world
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          Not nearly as much. If someone breaks their motherboard in half but the hard drive is okay, I can get their data unless they have bitlocker. Microsoft is encrypting drives and storing the keys in the TPM only, and it is insane. My grandma doesn’t have state secrets on her laptop, she doesn’t need encryption.

          • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
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            So, your grandma doesn’t need encryption. She might not need a seatbelt either. But it’s not only state secrets that are worth protecting. Does she have internet banking, with cookies stored in her browser? But many people do, and it’s either encryption for everyone, or for (almost) no one.

            • acid_falcon@lemmy.world
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              Hah is there a rash of nursing home break ins that I’m unaware of? I’m in the field, the way that is happening is phishing with fake ads and emails

              Very few people are breaking into a laptop for cookies, it’s tremendous amounts of work, and is usually targeted. Motherboards die all the time, and take the TPM with them

              • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee
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                Hah is there a rash of nursing home break ins that I’m unaware of?

                I mean, not Windows user lives in a nursing home. I wish! But some lose laptops on the train, and some even throw their computers away!

                Sure, most of the risk is remote through emails etc. Maybe you’re right. Maybe the balance is better the other way round: let all Windows Home users’ computers stay unencryptedv at rest, and keep encryption for Pro users. I grew up with a high focus on security; maybe I’m paranoid.

                But phones are all encrypted these days. Obviously they’re more mobile and at more risk, but that suggests to me that laptops are subject to similar, if smaller, risks.

                • acid_falcon@lemmy.world
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                  I get it, but as someone who has had to tell little old ladies their data is fucked, I am beyond pissed at Microsoft’s implementation. They should not be encrypting data without forcing lay people to have backup codes printed or on a flash drive or something.

                  They’re doing this because they want to force people to her Microsoft accounts, probably just to collect more data.

                  And for the record, I am very pro encryption The half assed way of encrypting even if there isn’t a Microsoft account connected and therefore no way to save keys somewhere is completely unacceptable

        • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
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          2 months ago

          How many has it protected though? Maybe 2? It’s not logical to ask the user if you want to take over their data

            • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
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              Locked out recoveries, yes, but I am fairly certain that encrypting data you don’t own without notifying is some kind of crime

  • Dimi Fisher@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I still don’t understand why there is no other mainstream os in competition alongside MS except IOs, I wouldn’t call Linux mainstream of course, don’t you think that’s a bit weird?!

    • Dragonstaff@leminal.space
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      MS abused its monopoly in the 90s. The Clinton administration was too lenient, then the Bush admin kowtowed completely. Now, there’s largely no chance for another operating system to compete.

      • Dimi Fisher@lemmy.world
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        Why so! and what Clinton and Bush have to do with an operating system that is used globally!? I think you overestimate MS

        • jnod4@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          Right wing politicians will always be in favour of big corporations, they pay good money

          • TheOakTree@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            And big corportations will always pay good money, so long as it makes/saves them money in the future

        • Dragonstaff@leminal.space
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          I’m not sure how to explain the concept of walled gardens to people who grew up with four websites. In the 90s, most software was “shareware”, you could try it out for as long as you wanted, but businesses were expected to buy licenses.

          MS used it’s dominant operating system to drive web browser competitors out of business. This is illegal. The whole concept of capitalism is built around competition, but MS used it’s power to stifle ’ innovation. The Clinton administration beat MS in court, then the Bush Administration dropped the case before the appeal was heard. If they hadn’t done that, instead had broken up Google, Meta, Apple, and the lot of them, the world would be a lot different now.

    • spicehoarder@lemm.ee
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      Microsoft is almost good as dead. These days, Linux takes just as much maintenance as XP used to. They’ve got maybe 5 years left until laptops start shipping with alternatives to Windows. My bet is it’s going to be SteamOS.

      • weissbinder@feddit.org
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        I have way less maintenance to do than on my old XP machine.

        And considering all the shenanigans Microsoft does starting with 10, I guess this still holds up.

      • Matt@lemmy.ml
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        Maybe SteamOS Lite if the device doesn’t have a proper GPU.

          • DFX4509B@lemmy.org
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            Even older dGPUs like the R9 270/270X or 280/280X, hell, even the R9 290/290X or 390/390X (R9 390/390X is just a faster 290/290X which ships with 8GB VRAM as standard issue), while admittedly pushing it a little, will also work fine for most indie titles and even truly ancient (as in DX9-era and earlier, think stuff like Silent Hill 2 which launched in 2002 for the PC) AAA stuff, you’ll just need to manually enable a compatibility toggle for GCN1 or GCN2 cards to work with AMDGPU in DIY distros like Arch or Gentoo while last time I thought some prebuilt distros like Fedora enabled it by default.

            These are the compatibility toggles you’ll need to set in kernel parameters for GCN1 and GCN2 cards to work with AMDGPU if they’re not set already. GCN3 and newer natively supports AMDGPU without needing said toggles.

            amdgpu.si_support=1 amdgpu.cik_support=1

      • superkret@feddit.org
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        Microsoft is thriving and will continue to do so, just probably on machines running Linux.
        They get paid $$ per month per employee by most businesses in the developed world.
        There is a mature alternative to desktop Windows now. But there isn’t for AD, Azure, Exchange, Kerberos and M365.

        • spicehoarder@lemm.ee
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          My bad, I meant their consumer grade stuff.

          I would generally agree with you on their cloud/server solutions. However, I do think AWS will get there some day.

    • superkret@feddit.org
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      If you don’t just look at desktop computers, GNU/Linux and Android/Linux are the most used operating systems in the world (not sure which is in the lead).
      If you look only at desktop computers, the most used OS is Minix, which is installed on most Intel CPUs and motherbords.

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    They desperately wanted to eliminate personal computers and replace them with dumb terminals running over the net.

    When the public rejected this idea

    THIS is their response. They are still insisting on total control of our computers.

        • DFX4509B@lemmy.org
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          Good luck locking loose mainboards sold for the DIY market, which don’t come with anything installed by default, to a given OS, the only way that could maybe work is forcing the OS in ROM.

          Another way would be to discontinue the socketed desktop form factors and replace them all with mini PCs that are as locked down as the current Macs.

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            Thinking for two seconds:

            MS pays Google to start enforcing some device verification thing so you can only view a good chunk of the Internet if you pass verification? (Assumes Google goes even harder making the web Chrome-focused)

            Ooh Cloudflare could be invited to the party here too. Constant CAPTCHAs if you’re not on an MS AUTHENTI-PC! device. (Think Private Access Token)

            …fill in the gaps friends 😉 you know MS has already debated all your “suggestions” anyway

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              This is already part of the trusted computing spec its called “remote attestation” I would actually expect it more targeted at multimedia who are hot to keep you from copying their stuff and banks.

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              Google already does precisely that with their “open source” mobile OS. People underestimate how easily these guys can ruin stuff

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                  First off, Google has made agressive deals with phone manufacturers to ship spyware with their phones by default, and some of the stuff can only get taken out by rooting/jailbreaking the phone. By doing so, they acquired nearly 100% of the app store market share, and then used it to make “useful features” such as integrity checks that are tied to the Play Services app (which is an always on spyware background app).
                  The end result is, even if you manage to root your phone and install a custom ROM (which is not always available to every model), a bunch of apps will refuse to work properly because you fail the Google Play fingerprinting steps and are assumed to be a security vulnerability. If I’m not mistaken there’s also some shady stuff with certificates, too

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              So you’re suggesting MS will somehow block non-Windows OSes from installing, even on hardware like loose mainboards for building your own PC with, or even on barebones mini PC kits or certain laptop SKUs, which don’t ship with an OS installed to begin with and expect the user to install it themselves? I mean, unless something extreme happens like changing the entire PC platform to be like the current Macs, that won’t be feasible.

              Also, doing that would kill the Steam Deck which I doubt Valve would take sitting down.

              • brbposting@sh.itjust.works
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                Ah no

                so you can only view a good chunk of the Internet if you pass verification

                /

                Constant CAPTCHAs

                Get Google & Cloudflare to make the internet suck if you didn’t pay Microsoft[‘s vendors] “enough” for hardware

                Just sounds great doesn’t it?!

              • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
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                No. You know nobody can do that. It’s illegal almost everywhere to even try. But in usa maybe happening soon. They can still import parts for years until they ban that too

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                SecureBoot pretty much does this. There is nothing preventing motherboard manufacturers from blocking adding non-MS keys if they wanted to.

                • DFX4509B@lemmy.org
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                  Except AFAIK loose mainboards aimed at the DIY market, as well as barebones kits, don’t ship with SecureBoot turned on by default and an off switch for that is mandatory to the PC spec.

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      They desperately wanted to eliminate personal computers and replace them with dumb terminals running over the net.

      I don’t know about that.

      Dumb terminal concept was more what Chromebook was doing.

      Microsoft is doing something even stupider.

      • jim3692@discuss.online
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        I think they want you to only use Windows and pay for cloud storage.

        By enforcing BitLocker and Secure Boot, they are trying to eliminate dual-booting (you don’t need to dual-boot Windows/Linux anyway, as you can just use WSL2 /s).

        By enforcing disk encryption, in general, they try to force the use of cloud storage, by making data recovery nearly impossible. Most people are probably too lazy to buy external storage, and manually copy their files over.

        This guarantees 2 money streams. One from Windows’s tracking/advertising and the other from OneDrive subscriptions.

      • Don_alForno@feddit.org
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        MS execs blathered about “the age of software running locally being over” long before Chromebooks.

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        Dumb terminal concept was more what Chromebook was doing.

        I mean, for a lot of people they’re fine especially if they’re priced appropriately. Especially with a lot more software as a service out there. My problem is that all of them have a built in drop dead date on when they’re going to stop getting updates and there’s not really a great option for the devices post ChromeOS.

        ChromeOS certainly can be a good system. I still have my old CR-48 from when I got selected to test the OS and even when it was in its infancy, it was solid. I used it for a lot of my college career because it was better than my Asus eeePC which had Ubuntu on it.

          • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            2 months ago

            If my Chromebook could run Linux or even pure Android, I’d probably use it way more often. But it being a locked down distro with android bolted on is useless to me.

            • I can’t really do anything major on it that I can on a cheap laptop
            • I can’t really use it for the same games or programs on Android, as the form factor really gets in the way, even in tablet mode.

            It feels like the worst of both worlds. It’s fine for people who use a laptop/OS as a bootloader to a web browser, its not fine for weirdos like me.

            • Fluffy Kitty Cat@slrpnk.net
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              2 months ago

              Funny thing is that a cheap netbook has stats that would be fine for anything we did in the 90’s maybe even some games too

              • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                2 months ago

                The Chromebook I have, is overall fine. It runs ChromeOS pretty well, and most web pages don’t make me beg for more RAM or CPU. ChromeOS does a fine job, to the point I wonder if I ran Arch or something on it, it’s a crapshoot.

                I think most laptops these days, even the cheap ones, are probably fine when you run a light OS on em. I’ve used computers that were 10 years old and ran most things decently well.

            • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              You could always put Linux on it. I believe there is a way to do that for most ChromeBooks nowadays.

              • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                2 months ago

                I tried, doesn’t work. There’s no documentation for my laptop or its board codename. I briefly got it to consider an Arch Linux ARM ISO but it just looped an error code on boot until you turned it off.

          • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
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            2 months ago

            I have never bought a device I could not own completely and flash the rom with what I want. Except once I had iPhone 3 but it was easily jail broken, but I still feel dirty. How can someone think they own and control something I bought? There is something fundamentally wrong with that and I agree it should be illegal

    • toastmeister@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      Not to mention DRM. They want to own your computer and prevent any kind of modification so that movie producers give them money.

          • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
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            2 months ago

            Not really. Your problem in us is the lobbying lawyers. It’s a political systematic problem. The demonic corp entities that crave endless growth will never not do anything that could potentially suck any data from or control a customer. The ones that get “money” for things like this are your law makers. The Republican authoritarian faschists are the winners, along with billionaires that can afford to buy laws. No movie producer. No one in any business except exploitation on the mass scale can profit from these moves. In some countries it is illegal. In the us it is business

              • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
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                2 months ago

                So not movie producers. You just mentioned them as another category being fucked? Because that’s what they are

                • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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                  2 months ago

                  The film industry benefits from HDCP and all DRM, they aren’t being fucked. I’ve looked back over the conversation, I think you have it flipped in your head.