Hello. So last week I went to a school reunion for the 20th anniversary of my hometown school. I’m not the kind of person who enjoy this kind of social events, but for this time I made an exception. My old friend from that time asked me to go and I thought I would be funny (spoiler alert: it wasn’t funny). After the event and speeches, all my classmates and I went to a restaurant. I sat in front of a girl that I had a bit of a crush on when I was a kid. During the dinner I was mostly in silence, they were talking about gossips, old memories, relationships, comparisons… At some point she talked about a boyfriend she had. She said that she cheated on him like 10 or 20 times, she didn’t know the exact number. The thing is… She was laughing about it, and so the others. “I told him I cheated on him, I don’t know how many times…” She said, like nothing happened. My ex girlfriend told me that she also cheated on his fiancée some time before the wedding. She always said that infidelities are always there, like it is normal… But is it? I’ve been thinking about it for some time now, because I know some other cases. But I don’t understand… There is no sense of morality ot loyalty or empathy?
My understanding is that infidelity is very nearly binary in its commonality.
There are groups of people for whom infidelity is normal, it is the norm. They believe that everyone cheats, and in their experience everyone does, because they are cheaters and are friends with cheaters. They believe that fidelity is impossible, and claims to the contrary is just social posturing
Then you have groups of people for whom infidelity is basically unthinkable. That it is the greatest breach of trust possible. It is not just not normal, it is non-existent— you don’t cheat, your partner doesn’t cheat, your friends don’t cheat, no one you know cheats. If someone you know cheats, or someone known by someone you know cheats, it is legitimately horrifying: this is not merely social posturing, it is literally shocking to you, because in your world, cheating simply does not happen. It is horrible.
Cheaters think everyone cheats. Non-cheaters believe no one cheats, or only horrible people cheat. These two groups tend to self sort themselves into groups. Bad things happen when the two groups intermingle, in fact.
What’s also a tragedy is when someone who would naturally be in the non-cheating group ends up, mistakenly, in a cheating group. They will begin to feel like everyone ELSE in the world cheats, while they themselves never would. They keep getting hurt, they keep getting betrayed, and they don’t understand why. They need a better friend group… and let me be clear: non-cheating groups ABSOLUTELY EXIST. Those groups simply don’t interact with cheating groups— they basically don’t even know that the cheating groups exist, and would be horrified to find out. So if you’re caught up in a cheating social circle, getting out is really hard! You need to find people who have literally nothing in common with the people you already know!
It kinda sucks. I don’t know a solution.
Absolutely. I belong to a non cheating group. It’s just seems completely unfathomable that it could happen. Most of us are in 15+ year relationships and are friends with everyone. It’s not just a “the women are friends with the women, the men are friends with the men” situation. We got a blend of genders all participating in the same hobbies. There would be so much social cost to cheating it would be kind of insane.
Where I work though there’s a decent amount of drama in that regard though and I have noticed that one common factor is that the relationships are atomized. They either keep their old friends going in and there’s almost zero expectation of their partners integrating into each other’s friendships or there’s just this expectation that men and women are fundamentally different creatures. That whole men are from Mars women from Venus shtick. From the outside it seems like emotional distance where people look at each other like they aren’t targets of empathy - more like they play by a book as if they can just put the right inputs in they will get the desired outputs.
I know this is entirely anedotal and that anybody could theoretically cheat for any number of reasons… It’s just something that I noticed about the groups of cheats that I am aware of.
Yeah. IDK how people can fit cheating in to their life.
I just don’t have that much time apart from my spouse I guess.
Also I’m not particularly attractive I guess so even before I was a balding 40 something I’ve never encountered someone who wanted a quick fuck in the broom closet or whatever.
I’d like to believe I’m a non-cheater, but what I’m saying is that’s never really been tested.
Also having kids changed things. I wouldn’t want to betray my partner, and that’s very important to me, but it’s a lot more important to me to not mess up our young family. My spouse and I are romantic partners, but we’re also a parenting team.
I don’t know anyone who cheats… Except my Uncle Chris, who has been unilaterally excommunicated from the whole family.
Huh. I don’t think I know anyone who cheats so I guess I got lucky. Your post is plausible
From time to time I get a ride from someone at work I have zero interest of becoming friends with. In those rides I get glimpses of a complete different reality where he and his friend group lives. It is horrifying and it completely matches the description of the parent comment.
Yup, this was me at a lunch table at work. Dudes were pulling the most repulsive stories about fucking another chick while their GF is doing XYZ or not washing between their side girl and main chick and i just couldn’t sit there. Pretended I got a notification and was like “whelp I got work to do, later!”
I get being a slut when you’re younger, I was, but why have a SO if you wanna fool around? Like why hurt someone?
In my experience yes.
My ex was always rambling about how men were always unfaithful, “oops I slipped and my dick ended up inside her” she used to say, to describe how easily men are unfaithful. She made it absolutely clear she wanted a monogamous relationship.
I was never unfaithful to her, but of course it turned out she was herself unfaithful numerous times, and it was crazy how bad she was at hiding it, almost like she wanted me to break up. So I did, and good riddance!!!
Later when I was moving in with a new girlfriend, and I was collecting some of my things at my ex, she was all dressed up, and all over me, kissing me and trying to win me back. She tried to kiss me on my mouth but I turned my head so it was on the cheek.
My girlfriend was waiting in the car outside, and she saw the lipstick on my cheek when I came back, obviously not too happy about it. But I explained it was all my ex and not me.
Lucky for me she didn’t ditch me, and later my new girlfriend agreed to become my wife, and we’ve been together for 20 years now! 🥰A friend of mine had just bought a very expensive apartment in Copenhagen together with his girlfriend. The papers were signed and the deal was closed. There are a few days where you can get out of the deal, and in that period my friend was told his girlfriend had been unfaithful. He didn’t believe it at first, but the day after the deadline for getting out of the purchase, his girlfriend broke up!
I’m not saying women are worse than men, but the idea that men are more unfaithful than women is bullshit. There are more men than women in the relevant age groups, so obviously on average women have more sex than men do. That’s simply a statistical necessity.
Hah I’ve never heard the Pigeon Hole Principle applied to infidelity. Pecker Hole Principle?
Pigeon Hole Principle
Thanks I never heard of that, but that seems to perfectly describe the principle.
I never heard of this Principle, despite having applied this myself to male/female dating society (including infidelity).
I always imagined it as a Pairing Musical Chairs Principle, where m and n are the amount of chairs and people in team A, and n and m in team B, where n > m.
Thus team A mostly rushes for any chair doing little else, while team B either don’t bother playing the same game and instead decorate their respective chairs at team A or they fight for the taken chair that’s always greener than the free ones.It’s math principle. But it assumes the massively oversimplified scenario that you’re pairing up groups A and B in basically one go. This is nowhere near reflective of reality.
As for your description…how do I put this delicately…I think you’re overthinking it. I wish you well, bud, I really do.
The importance here is that over time, people pair up and the ones left are fighting for the remaining chairs / relationships. The more people have paired up, the more likely the remainders of group A struggle even harder to find a chair/partner, hence the existence of male-gendered incel and ‘forever alone’ communities.
There’s no overthinking it. It’s simple math and there’s no way around it other than somehow adding more women.
I personally don’t cheat, wouldn’t cheat, being Demi/ace. But unfortunately everyone around me either cheats or has an open relationship then gets jealous when their SO gets some action. A lot of them have STDs.
Married 20 years, never thought abut cheating, got divorced , and remarried 15 years now, and never think about cheating. If you commit to somebody, they should be your one and only, IMO.
Cheating is definitely in the minority of my social circle. I know of 2 amongst 100. At least people who were shameless enough to be admitting it.
That said, I do have maybe 5 open relationships in my friend group? I don’t usually ask, so maybe 10 total. My wife and I are monogamous. If you’re not, whatever, you do you. It isn’t a religious thing, it’s just how we roll.
But good lord at least talk about it, agree on it and stick with it. If you don’t then you’re a dick.
I guess this means that cheaters are more inclined to go to school reunions.
Seriously, I think that fits. Many people (not all) cheat because they are unfulfilled in life. And the same cohort also might go to class reunions for the same reason… to try to find fulfillment.
Tw: child rape, abuse, drugs, cults, alcoholism, all kinds of random stuff.
Nah that person’s a piece of shit. Everybody laughing could be in a state of internal WTF JUST LAUGH ALONG or actually be part of whatever shitty culture. A lot of places legitimately don’t see how this is just insanely bad emotional maturity.
Remember though, people are VERY dynamic… Whenever you think you know the range of what people are like, just remember that you’re wrong and you ain’t seen nothing yet, and there are still far more conservative and far more liberal, and far smarter, and far dumber, and far more messed up stuff out there.
I dated a dude last summer that was telling me about a trans girl he dated years ago that grew up in a trailer park, hooked on meth, and was habitually raped by adults her whole life and everybody in that meth cult thought it was normal.
I’ve known wealthy people who were good people, wealthy people who were bad people, poor people who grew up and embraced greed and became rich, slum lords, teachers that cheat on each other and end up trading spouses and remarry. Old retired people having orgies, bdsm people who want to be whipped bloody to get off, and also 40 year old virgins and people who will never, ever find anybody because of circumstances and they think it’s okay. Forgiving people, people who hold grudges, people who judge blindly, people who live in their own world of privilege, people who are miserable from listening to nothing but npr, sociopath guys who want to get with me, girls who flirt with me but rob me, people absolutely addicted to drugz nonstop everyday but otherwise are perfectly functional members of society, people with iq of 50, people with iq of 170. Families that behave like Mafia and families that behave like community leaders. Families that barely resemble families
There is always a bigger fish in the pond. There is always somebody who pushes your understanding of what an npc can be. Everybody’s so incredibly different, yet in a certain light, we are all the same.
My point is, be yourself. If it sounds off to you, then it isn’t a good fit for you. Use your best judgement, try to think deeply to define your morality by reading some simple philosophy - or not. You’re special and unique and that’s okay. Life is a long journey of finding what you like and what likes you back. It really is worth standing up for what you believe in, but also try to keep an open mind and at least truly understand what other people’s lives are like. But you still need to put your own mask on before you can help others. And remember, it’s your life, it truly is what you make of it.
People are all dumb though and make mistakes. We’re just animals, all learning by making our own mistakes. Some not learning, some deciding that they want power, others deciding on bizarre motives.
You do you, and pave your own way. Be honest with yourself though, that’ll save you a lifetime of time.
I’ve seen a lot of cheating. So I suppose it’s common. Not the norm, but common.
In the end it all just boils down to people not being really good on general.
I’m not sure what kind of infidelity happens in high school, but I suspect if someone cheated on me by kissing someone else while we were in high school, I wouldn’t be upset, mostly because the nature of relationships in high school I don’t think of as long lasting. I’ve never cheated nor been cheated on though.
I agree. In high school is different. We all fall in love with a different person every day. But I think she was talking about her mid twenties.
Cheating is like divorce it’s common if you look at the percentage of relationships. They are both less common if you look at at individuals. Cheaters always cheat again, those who get divorced often do so again.
The thought has never crossed my mind, and it would have never crossed the minds of anyone I know. I have no urge to cheat and neither does my partner. I have generally thought that it’s a very unusual and uncommon phenomenon for someone to cheat, and I find it surprising how many people here think otherwise
Welcome to The Against Matrimony Club, we have mimosas.
The against monogamy club has coke and group sex
Some people are just shittier than others. What they look like on the outside has no bearing on their inner beauty.
I think infidelity varies, but one thing doesn’t: people who cheat and have zero remorse are not trustworthy.
You may have had a crush, but it sounds like you got lucky by missing out.
I guess there is some cultural nuance - my impression is that for some people, sexual exclusivity is understood as an impossible virtue which it is important to appear to uphold, but where breaking it is kind of like sneaking a cigarette after having quit.
Which doesn’t make them untrustworthy necessarily, they just have a different understanding of how big of a deal it is.
You have to consider a few things here. You’re not the only one with social anxiety at that event. Your reaction is not to go in the first place (my MO as well) or to sit quietly hoping it shall pass with haste. Others talk too much. School reunions are such a rich vein for neurosis because you’re guaranteed to be judged by your peers. Peers who knew you very well when you weren’t a more well put together person yet. Few people behave like themselves there. So if the woman says she cheated a million times lol, her neurons may be on the fritz as well because she’s more thinking about how she dunked Sharon’s head in the toilet in freshman year or whatever. And that memory is haunting. And she’s sitting just over there! WHY HASN’T SHE SAID ANYTHING? … So you need to have a salt shaker handy for anything you hear.
Also, some people like attention and will say anything to get it. People like to construct a public persona around their worst character traits, the ones they’re unable to change. It’s like they’re putting a cool leather jacket on, aviator shades too. To distract themselves from their inner monolog, which very well might be telling them what a piece of shit they are.
And cheating is common. In my social group I know of a handful of cases. Drunk and horny, sober and crushing - the motivations are on a scale. In some relationships these secrets never get revealed, in others they’ve made the bond stronger, others have broken up. I would say very few people brag about it but hey, we contain multitudes. Some people end up in an unhealthy game of hurt oneup(wo)manship. Relationships are hard fucking work.
It is also a different picture when you have children with your partner. The willingness to forgive infractions increases for the good of the children.
And while centuries of indoctrination of monogamy and loyalty to your spouse can make this hard to accept: some people make open relationships work. I think it’s more often than not the last stepping stone to disaster but if you can make it work, vaya con dios. I have a hard time with it but I’m trying not to judge.
None of this needs to change how you feel about cheating though.
