An Anti Hero is basically a good guy who is kinda bad, or does good things for bad reasons. Deadpool’s a classic example of an Anti Hero
Everyone in the Expanse. Naomi, Drummer, Fred Johnson, Bobbie Draper, Chrisjen Avasarala, Monica… Obviously, Amos, Peaches, Miller, and even Holden.
All of them do reprehensible things. Some did them and made up for it. Some still do them to win.
Really? Holden damn close to the platonic ideal of a reluctant hero, with a strong moral compass.
He wobbles a bit later with all the PTSD, but generally always tries to do the right thing the best way he can.
Naomi and Bobbi too, Naomi did bad stuff in her back story, but she’s much surer of herself and her sense of right and wrong due to that. Bobbi possibly a very mild anti-hero as she can lean a little blood knight, but not quite anti-hero in my view.
Drummer and Fred Johnson are much more morally grey, and start out as more antagonists than they end up being.
Avasarala is similar, but she’s also a magnificent foul mouthed mother. She can get anti-hero status for sure.
Amos I think is more of a villain protagonist (dueteragonist?) than anti-hero.
Miller is anti-hero in the Shinji Ikari type.
Agreed. I think Amos can rightly be called an antihero, same with Miller.
But Holden is the archetype ‘good guy’ and everyone else is also unambiguously ‘good’ who occasionally do morally gray things for pragmatic reasons.
Such a great show (haven’t read the books (yet) sorry!)
Anti-hero: the protagonist whose methods, while effective, are not openly supported or celebrated because they fly in the face of “norms.”
While I agree with your analysis on Holden. Reluctant hero, to be sure. He sure did screw over Earth and Mars on a fairly regular basis to make his points stick. He disobeyed orders and protected a Belter ship, which got him bounced from the Navy. He declined promotion so he could keep shagging the pilot of the Cant. He went alone on sending out the message that got them caught by the Donny… and that was all before shooting down a medical relief vessel, shearing off the drive section of a UNN vessel, targetlocking every ship in the Ganymede AO as he escorted the Weeping Somnambulist away. In-universe, Holden will do just about anything to advance his own ends. He’s a privateer, his motives and methods transcend in-universe moralities, which we can only see because we know all the pieces. It’s not 'til the Behemoth that he gains the patina of “saviour” — in contact with the dead, chosen by the protomolecule for direct communication, and having escaped death enough times to engender trust.
For most of the others — Amos (that guy --> just walk away), Naomi (clubbing Cyn ‐‐> waking the Presence), and Alex (we don’t talk about Alex) for running with Holden; Fred (stealing missiles, selling Inaros out to the Inners --> “in my quarters, stop them”), Drummer (executioner --> “speak plainly”), and Bobbie (warrior, defector, ronin, mercenary --> fucking Valkyrie) for materially supporting Holden; in-universe, they would also be regarded as Anti-Heroes until they’re not because of their arcs. Don’t hate the playa. Hate the game.
Maybe “hero of the belt” = anti-hero precisely because it undercuts the frame of a “classic” hero. Much to be learned, then. Maybe I just want them to be anti-heroes because I have so much respect for these characters, their subversion of “norms” and willingness to address a greater good.
Nice touch with the comparison between Amos and Shinji Ikari. If this had been 2 years ago, I wouldn’t have known. I see it now.
Also, Clarissa Mao?
I agree with your view for how they’re seen in universe, but “anti-hero” is a Doylian status rather than Watsonian.
Holden follows heroic, regarded as heroic by our 21st century Anglo-European society morality. Alex, while the heart of the gang is more of an anti-hero due to his commitment phobia and run of failed relationships.
They’re all (except Amos (except he kinda is in his own way)) admirable characters, and worthy of emulation.
Clarissa, like Fred Johnson, and to a lesser extent Avasarala (although more so in the books) started off in antagonist roles, and thus tend to be more anti-hero /accepting of less moral choices because of that. Good arcs and development with all of them. But Johnson is more supporting cast, so doesn’t quite get to anti-hero for me on that count, but made difficult choices to make up for past crimes.
Does Agent Venom count? I’ve only read a little about the character, but enjoyed what I saw.
In - I think - the first issue, he ends up carrying an armed grenade in his mouth for most of it; I remember there being some pretty funny quips about it.
After watching Andor, I guess Luthem Rael fits that title. Dude’s absolutely savage. Forced to use the tools of his enemy to fight for freedom that he’ll likely never experience. He sacrifices good people on order to protect the whole
It’s also established that’s he’s an accelerationist. He’s intentionally baiting the Empire to crackdown more brutally on dissent in an effort to forment rebellion among the common people of the galaxy. He fears that if he does not do this, there will be a day when the Empires grip is too tight to escape.
“It will burn… Very brightly”
In the end, he was right. The Death Star vindicates his methods. Without Luthen laying the groundwork for the Rebel Alliance, the Galaxy would have been a boiling frog and the Death Star would have led to its brutal oppression for generations.
He’s absolutely a hero and without him the death star would’ve probably obliterated the rebellion (if it even existed without him). His methods aren’t exactly “good” though from the perspective of good vs evil. As we see with Mon Mothma who is maybe a bit naïve and definitely doesn’t approve of his methods. But I think a rebellion needs a Luthen. He knows he’ll be hated by pretty much everyone, but in the end he managed to get so much done. He’s the fall guy so the formal rebellion doesn’t have to get their hands dirty.
Fred Flintstone Garfield
They said anti-hero.
Beatrix Kiddo “The Bride” from “Kill Bill”.
Sooo evil, but you just have to love her.
I wouldn’t say she’s an anti-hero, her soul motivation is revenge. It’s just a point of convenience that she’s also taking out bad guys.
Yes, the sinister toe wiggling
Tarantino. Toes. Figures.
Didn’t see him posted yet, Walter Joseph Kovacs aka Rorschach.
The one who hates immigrants, gays, and liberals? Might want to take a little closer look at your favorite character.
The question was favorite antihero.
An antihero (sometimes spelled as anti-hero or two words anti hero) or anti-heroine is a character in a narrative (in literature, film, TV, etc.) who may lack some conventional heroic qualities and attributes, such as idealism and morality. Although antiheroes may sometimes perform actions that most of the audience considers morally correct, their reasons for doing so may not align with the audience’s morality.
Perhaps a post titled “Who is your favorite antihero?” Isn’t the best place for you if you’re just looking for reasons to be offended.
Woody Harrelson’s character in Zombieland was perfect.
That’ll do pig. That’ll do.
Isn’t this just a hero?
Can you be a hero for not doing anything?
Assuming he didn’t do it (he didn’t), he’s taking the fall for a saint so that’s saintly on its own imo
Saint Luigi 🙏
The Warden in Superjail!
You’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone he’s the hero.
Now, if you’d said Jailbot…
I take it back—JailBot it is
Bill Burr.
Iirc, the original definition of an antihero didn’t mean a bad guy you root for. It meant a hero in the story that didnt embody the traditional heroic traits of courage, strength, faith in God, noble morality, etc. The antihero is the hero who is not really heroic - a hero who is kind of just a normal person. An example of this being Don Quixote - a man who spent his time fighting dragons and rescuing princesses only in his imagination.
These days, almost all heros outside children’s books are antiheros. Because true heros are flat and one dimensional and unrelatable and don’t contribute to an engaging plot. These days, it isn’t thrilling enough for us to hear how the knight slew the dragon. He must first overcome… I dunno, his childhood trauma or something… And then he can slay the dragon!
I just recently started Don Quixote and have only just made it into part 2, but he doesn’t really strike me as a hero. Maybe in his own head he thinks so. He’s certainly the protagonist, but from what i’ve read so far, he’s been rather antagonistic towards the people he interacts with.
Gianni Schicchi (the operatic precursor to Weekend at Bernie’s)
Weekend Bernie’s does not get the recognition it deserves! Such an amazing/stupid movie that I haven’t seen in far too long.
Ant Man.
Which one?
The Irredeemable Ant-Man is an interesting one - he’s a low level, lazy SHIELD worker who steals an Ant-Man suit and uses it for selfish things. But you probably meant Scott Lang. I’d say Scott is more of a regular hero.
Yeah Scott Lang’s not an anti Hero by any stretched imagination. I would hope he doesn’t mean him.
Ant Man must be the anti-est hero, doesn’t get any anti-er than that
Which one?
Pym, I’d assume. I mean, the guy beat his wife, created Ultron, and is generally even more of an asshole than Stark…
That was technically a Skrull who beat Hank Pym’s wife. A perfect replica of his personality, tendencies, and mental well-being, but still not technically Hank Pym himself. This failed to redeem him, I think.
That’s not what an anti-hero is. The anti-hero is when the main character is the bad guy. Think Walter White or to a certain extent Dexter Morgan.
You’re half right. An anti-hero is someone doing bad things for a good reasons. While dexter only killing criminals could count, White is a different case as he is in no way making meth for a good cause.
That’s not really the definition either
The term antihero gets misused a lot, but villain protagonist is absolutely not correct either. An antihero does not have to be the protagonist, and a protagonist who is a villain is still a villain, not an antihero.
Often the clumsy fool with a pure heart is the anti hero. For example Forrest Gump
