Google has been trying to make Android proprietary for a few years now, and that’s not news, as many AOSP default apps have been abandoned over time in favor of proprietary Google ones. This was never a huge problem for me, as you can still use those apps without network access or use open source alternatives like Fossify on a custom ROM.
However, the situation is quickly getting worse, now that Google is actively trying to prevent the development of custom ROMs and taking a page from Apple’s book by forcing developers to beg them for permission to release apps on the Android platform, even outside of the Play Store - giving Google full control.
Is there still any hope left for privacy respecting Android ROMs? What do you think will happen next? And what would be your suggestions for those looking for a phone in 2025?
If you have a different perspective on the situation, also please comment below!
The EU. That’s where my hope lies.
the eu is pushing for every chat conversation to be snooped on lol
I live in EU, and that shit drives me nuts.
Stop spying on your citizens!
The “EU” is a set of instances with multiple backgrounds and interests. Multiple bodies can work in totally different directions.
Denmark is.
That was then, now they are very pro FANGS and removing all barriers because they are afraid of tariffs and want the US to keep selling them weapons for Ukraine.
I’ve always wanted to try one of these.
yeah i can see this kinda thing becoming the resistance by the looks of it. i’m already wondering to myself if it could be practical to use something like this with postmarket or aosp.
i wonder if i could make it thinner and more ergonomic if i desoldered unused io.
Fuck it, I’m going back to Landline
Weary traveler, I beseeth thee to not harken down this path.
I hear tales of dark spirits haunting those old byways. Ones of greed, with an emotionless façade, and hunger for gold from too-eager souls.
Do tell. I heard it is just VoIP. I guess there is surveillance there too?
I was more referring to telemarketers. Lol. I don’t use landlines anymore for that reason. I’ve thought about it from time to time, but then I hear about the experiences of other people who still have them, and apparently it’s just a telemarketer cesspool at this point.
It’s more expensive than you think, and it’ll probably be VoIP even if you get it from a “normal” phone company
There’s no hope for privacy at all as long as American and the 5 eyes exist.
I was thinking this. With advances in text recognition, they can potentially filter all that data now. Since five eyes is essentially for industrial espionage, google first requiring access to source code to ensure compatibility, and that you can’t really turn off chrome web page sniffing (I have found the disabled chrome app still running, with “force stop” available,) all this makes more sense than the little bit they’d squeeze out of ad revenue chasing people who avoid chrome and google assistant. After all, it isn’t bad actors or people who already buy from google they are spending so much effort on - it is the tech competent.
No, not really I suppose
Until substantially more people join the fight for privacy or something else fundamentally changes, I think there is a very real possibility of Google completely clamping down on Android while governments and workplaces mandate apps that only run on phones with all of Google or Apple’s bells and whistles.
But the folks at GrapheneOS, Calyx, and Murena seem to be a devoted and resourceful bunch, so I am hopeful that they can give something for us to work with, even if Google pulls the plug, whether it’s a fork of Android or rebasing to mobile Linux.
If that all falls through, I’ll look for whichever phone supports Linux best and eventually move everything over. The vast majority of the apps I use regularly on my GrapheneOS phone aren’t very demanding and have a decent alternative on Linux. And whatever apps are forced on me by other people will reside on a dedicated Android phone, ideally with a removable battery.
For this year, I’d still recommend a secondhand or reseller Pixel with GrapheneOS. Everything just works on it.
we need the devs who make lineageos to come up with something, because that’s what most people have access to. and their stance is that they won’t be doing anything to bypass any of google’s restrictions.
that’s if unlocking is still a thing in the near future.
Plain burner flip phone and a wifi only Linux device that connects to a hotspot. F google and Apple.
Enticing but would require most to completely change the way they use their devices, unless the Linux device is in the size and shape of a phone.
That’s true but it’s either that or accept a Google or Apple phone. It’s what I do and I love not having instant reply expectation placed on me.
It’s like the good ole days before cell phones. 😂
It also allows me to significantly improve my personal privacy.
For an experience a bit more familiar, you might consider a pixel, GrapheneOS and pgpp. If I understand it correctly, this setup is a Google-free and privacy-based carrier alternative to the system that is currently at risk.
Google free but with a google phone. Yall know they can put backdoors in hardware? Does everyone not think it is a coincidence that the only phone that works well for this in the United States of Fascism is a Google phone?
@Sailor88@lemmy.world @ComradePedro@lemmy.ml
I’d really love a Linux phone (personally, I have a Linux PC and I use Arch, btw) so don’t get me wrong when I question: what about the banking and government apps? Yeah, because finance systems are getting increasingly digital around the world and every payment will eventually need to involve banking apps, and you guessed it: just Android (Google) and iOS (Apple), no Linux, no KaiOS. One will eventually need apps to pay for rent and consumer bills, even for buying groceries, as fiat currency will get more digital and less physical.
And, no, European Union won’t fight against it because, in fact, the same European Union is seeking to digitalize EUR (see “ECB publishes third progress report on the digital euro preparation phase”, published by European Central Bank on 16 July 2025). It’s not a matter of if, but when physical currencies will become ruled out, and “For Our Security™”, Linux (alonside other alternative OSes) will either be ruled out from internet banking altogether or it’ll be forced to comply with “security requirements” that, in practice, would turn Linux indistinguishable from Android and iOS.
And this seems to be where everywhere is headed, it’s not just an European or USian phenomenon. The future is bleak.
You will use Monero or Parrish.
No, seriously though, the circular economy is growing and by contributing to it, you are giving the middle finger to these fuckers.
Monero will be illegal to own within the EU next year.
It won’t be illegal to own it. It just won’t be possible to buy it from a centralized exchange.
How do we know its not a scam like the rest?
Because the government outright hates it and is doing everything it can short of outright banning it which would be a transparent violation of their own laws. When the government hates it so much that they literally write papers on purposely attacking it in order to suppress it, you know there’s something there.
what about the banking and government apps?
Use the browser versions. Not everything has to be done through apps
@mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
I’m Brazilian and many Brazilian banks require apps, be it for generating a unique code (e.g. Itaú’s iToken) to authorize/authenticate, to scan a QR code every time the Web client requests an action (e.g. Mercado Pago and Santander), or even to do mobile-only transactions such as Pix (Brazilian instant payment/transfer) because our Central Bank (BACEN, who created and maintains Pix nationwide) requires banks to limit Pix in a per-device basis. The latter is crucial because Pix became the main payment method around here, and it can’t be done through Web browsers.
Then, there are the “safety measures” inherent to these banking apps, so they refuse to work outside rawdogged Android/iOS. Even enabling “Developer mode” or having some apps installed (such as Termux; apps can see which other apps you have installed) is enough for some banks to refuse logging in (and certain banking apps won’t even tell why, just some generic error message).
Also, depending on where a person works, the employer may require the employee to receive their paycheck at a specific bank, which in turn will require an app if the employee is willing to use their own paycheck to pay their bills. Banks have been trying to push their mobile internet banking to their customers, with many banks (such as Bradesco) closing many of their physical branches so people have no nearby ATMs to do banking things.
Finally, even browser-based internet banking (e.g. Caixa Econômica Federal) sometimes require the installation of software akin to kernel-level anti-cheat because “muh security”, and some will support neither Linux nor virtualized Windows (most (if not all) virtualization hypervisors can be easily detected by techniques such as the Red-Pill).
So it’s not as easy as “use the browser versions”, unfortunately.
That sounds horrifying. Although also completely predictable and expected, but I didn’t know that in Brazil it had reached that level. Isn’t Lula supposed to do something about it? Back in his first presidency (I was in Brazil back then), Linux was becoming the main OS.
Although the usual 2 party system ensures that the next government would destroy everything, so I imagine all the open source effort was demolished and it can’t keep being rebuilt from scratch every 4 years, when the next government return everything to microsoft.
Anyway, I sent you a message because I have personal interest in the issue. Thanks for the useful but horrifying information.
well need a wine for android. or just a vm. EDIT: I momentarily forgot about waydroid…
There is Android virtualization already (e.g. Genymotion, Android-x86 project, QEMU, among other projects), but just as “Red-Pill” can detect virtualization for x86-based systems, the same concept applies to ARM-based virtualization, and banking apps would likely detect the atypical environment. Also, things such as fingerprint reader (needed to authenticate for certain banks) are likely to not work properly for emulated environments.
I also momentarily forgot about it, but there’s waydroid! if we modify it a bit(make it look more normal, like make it think some common apps are installed), we should be able to get it to run banking apps. also just don’t use fingerprints(but that could also be implemented).
As of right now, it’s looking like GrapheneOS will be unaffected, and Google has yet to lock down the bootloader. So this should remain a valid option for at least 2 years.
Other than that:
- Any smartphones with an unlocked bootloader + any ROMs without gapps
- Chinese smartphones with non-Google Android builds
- Linux smartphones
- Bonus: Huawei is about to release their own non-Android OS, but I wouldn’t expect it to be privacy-friendly
Honestly there probably isn’t any good, long-term solution. Personally I’m somewhat shocked we’ve gone this many years with reasonably open smartphones. Next step is probably closing bootloaders in new laptops, as part of the switch to ARM (which is already undergoing).
I’m pretty seriously considering the pinephone. I think it’s super neat there’s a LoRa module backplate you can buy with it, although my understanding is nobody has made it work with meshtastic yet.
I’m a huge fan of Pine64, but I wouldn’t expect the PinePhone to be a great replacement for an Android smartphone. Personally I have quite extensive experience with PineBook Pro, PineTime and PineBuds Pro. I haven’t had the chance to try the PinePhone, but I’d definitely go for the Pro.
Even then, prepare for a junky experience and forget about lixuries such as good camera, nice screen, smooth UI/UX. Their devices are great, and the ideas behind them more so. But unfortunately they rarely work well, perhaps with the exception of PineBuds Pro.
FYI, the Pro has been discontinued: https://pine64.org/2025/08/14/august_2025_short_update/
Hey everyone! As many have noticed, the PinePhone Pro is currently out ot stock on the Pine Store. Unfortunately we have to deliver you the following news: the PinePhone Pro is officially discontinued. We were told it didn’t sell well enough to keep production going. But the good news for current owners are that spare parts will still be made for up to two years, depending on demand. Meanwhile, the trusty PinePhone (A64) is still alive and kicking, and Pine Store plans to keep it rolling for about two more years.
Well, that sucks. So I guess the better move here would be to wait for something new? I don’t think the regular PinePhone is at all viable as a daily driver.
Depends, if it is used as a dumbphone (calls, SMS, being in sleep most of the time), it is okayish. However, going outside dumphone sphere, it becomes cumbersome to use.
If it can handle basic calling and texting, mp3 playback, and occasionally open my banking/email (both of which have acceptably usable mobile websites) I think I can work with that. If I’m home I use my computer, if I’m out and about I’m too busy to be on my phone for more than it takes to transfer money or fire off a quick text.
I’ve heard that there’s phones that use Linux, so I imagine once modifying Android isn’t an option focus will probably go into making that more viable.
There has been focus on making it not viable in my opinion. We’re going to need to use dumb phones and faraday bags soon. I am about to give up. I can not compete with a bunch of psychos with billions of dollars that constantly need more and more money and data.
Since my Dad wasnt able to get me a Google Pixel I’m honestly considering a dumbphone at this point. Make my Samsung a glorified MP3 player.
I was thinking of selling the Samsung, getting a dumb phone or Purism. I gave an old Ipod classic thay still works. Its so nice to listen to shit with no tracking.
Not on Android. People love to stan for Android because “it’s open source,” but Android would have gone nowhere if Google didn’t buy it, and Google wouldn’t have bought it if they weren’t convinced it would let them scrape more personal data than Gmail. (And Andy Rubin made Android because he heard Steve Jobs say the iPhone would run OS X, and he thought he could probably whip up a Linux distro to run on a phone.)
You could get an iPhone and not run any apps by Google, Meta, Microsoft, X, or any of the other privacy-opposed companies. You’d also better change the default search off of Google. DuckDuckGo is an option. Ecosia might be. Not sure. The issue is, while Apple says they’re all about privacy, that’s based on them being a computer/hardware company first (and Google being a data company first). However, Apple is heavily leaning into services now — Apple Music, Apple TV+, Apple News+, and more — and there are rumors they want their own search engine. So while Apple may be privacy strong now, you don’t know what they’ll be a year from now, or three, or five.
It’s like Tim Cook (Apple CEO) said about Facebook when they introduced the tracking limiter. “You can still give Facebook permission to track you all over the web, they just gotta get your permission first.” That’s true of privacy. You can still use Google, Meta, Microsoft, X, TikTok, and other privacy-violating companies’ products, but what you share is entirely up to you. You can use some of those services in Safari and block some tracking, or you can install the apps and allow it all. It’s up to you.
Or, you can buy a Pixel and reward Google’s business model, and put GrapheneOS on it. That is probably better, privacy-wise, than using an iPhone. But you’re still rewarding Google’s business model. And if they’re making so much money off your data that opting out isn’t even an option, why does the Pixel cost the same the iPhone does (and more, considering the Pixel Fold)? You are getting more RAM, but RAM is cheap. You’re not getting a better processor — Apple has won that race for years. Camera tech is about 50/50. Screen is up in the air — I think Apple’s is better, but Google et al use higher resolutions. Apple buys from the same companies but screens are made to spec which is why Apple’s are better than those by companies they buy from. Their spec is more demanding. “Good enough” is what passes in Android — it’s like how iPhones use NVMe and Androids use UFS. NVMe is more expensive, and it’s faster on paper, but in the real world? UFS is good enough. You wouldn’t see a difference, or a significant one, in real world usage. So what are you paying for in a Pixel? The lower specs plus the privacy/data factor should make the Pixel significantly cheaper… except Google is a publicly traded company, so they can’t sell it that low.
Apple may not be the best option, but they’re advertising that they are (with regards to privacy). And I think they’re trying. I’m not saying they’re saints. They are doing better than Google though. And you have to decide if that’s worth your money. And dealing with a crappy keyboard. The keyboard sucks.
Apple has a search engine, it’s just not publicly accessible. They’ve had a web crawler for many years and their internal search engine is likely what powers things like siri suggested sites and information for apple maps. It is correct they could enter the search and advertising game at any moment, though unlikely because it would destroy their brand integrity.
That said apple is no saint for privacy. For one they actively enable google; they take billions from google to fund safari development in exchange for prioritizing google as built in search and feeding google user data. For a company like Mozilla this is an ethical conundrum; without googles money they’d likely be done. For a company like apple it is inexcusable. the few billion, while a tremendous amount (I think 18 billion?) is a pittance to them.
Further to your point of “active permission” with the tracking limiter this is not always the case. Apple is aware and does not do anything to reform. Part of the reason companies want you to use their app on ios is because then you will be far more likely to open links via the in app browser, which is still safari/webkit, but now escapes sandboxing and allows for far more precise tracking and fingerprinting even if you utilize the tracking limitations built into ios.
Notice how only sketchy games with tons of blatant ads will prompt the “ask ad not to track” box. Instagram, twitter, youtube, reddit, etc generally don’t because they don’t need to track you through permitted routes. Apple has long been aware of this and continue to do nothing (forcing links to open in safari or another browser, limiting traffic on in app browsers, etc). Lord knows what other tricks scumbags like facebook have to circumvent systems and track everything you do. Apple is well aware it happens without user consent but tolerates it and then has the gall to say their hardware and software is “privacy oriented”
Yes, ironically I just read another article about how Facebook/Meta has gotten around the ATT (App Tracking thing, I forget what the other T stands for) with in-app browsers. The article’s point was that all the beef between Apple and Meta is just for show and that they need each other like Apple and Google, Apple and Samsung, et al. So yeah, with you on that.
People love to stan for Android because “it’s open source,” but…Google wouldn’t have bought it if they weren’t convinced it would let them scrape more personal data than Gmail.
I mean it can be both? Android has been awesome for many years precisely because it was open source. It’s the reason we have had and continue to have so many custom ROMs. It was open source so it could be run by Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc. while Google collected all the data. It also meant that independent developers could create their own OSs without any of Google’s BS in it. And that was fine, because us nerds are not even 1% of the market. But something seems to have changed because they’re very suddenly clawing back control of the entire OS. Pretty much the beginning of the end for private mobile devices. This trend is likely to continue faster than the community can create workarounds.
The open source thing is largely a myth, though. AOSP is what’s open source. The version of Android on Pixel phones and Nexus before them was forked from that and bundles a lot of closed source stuff, like Google Play Services, Gmail, and more. But it’s close enough to AOSP that devs can target it and it should run on most/all Android forks.
So then Samsung and others take AOSP and they fork it and make their own OS that is based on Android. They are required per licensing to use Android branding if they want Play Store access. There are other rules, like Chrome and/or Google has to be on the main launcher page, Play Services has to be included… if they don’t play by the rules, they can still fork Android, they just can’t use the name Android… like Fire OS and Switch OS. (It’s unclear if modern Switches use any Android code. Before they were released they were rumored to have forked Android. Switches absolutely do not run Android apps, but the OS borrows several cues from Android design language.)
The open source thing is largely a myth, though. AOSP is what’s open source.
You say it’s a myth, then say it’s not a myth. Which one is it? Is it open source or not?
AOSP and production versions of Android (what’s on the Pixel) are not the same thing.
Yes, that’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.
It was open source so it could be run by Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc. while Google collected all the data.
Wait, it being open source should have no effect on this? It could just as easily be closed source as long as Google offered licenses for manufacturers to use it.
Offering licenses means they could take back their permissions at any time.
OEMs want open source for the same reasons as everyone else.
OK, but Google essentially still has that power, despite the OS being “open-source”.
That has nothing to do with Google, that has to do with the US government.
How does it have nothing to do with Google, if Google did it, even if it was by order of the US government? Regardless, this still clearly demonstrates that AOSP being open-source has no bearing on an OEM being able to use the full Android system or even the name “Android”.
Contrast that with a fully open system like Linux, where this wouldn’t be possible. No OEM would get banned from using Linux, even if the US government ordered it.
How does it have nothing to do with Google, if Google did it, even if it was by order of the US government?
Because Google has zero control over it. You’re REALLY reaching here…
You mean the company that gave Trump a gold brick. No thanks. God I wish there was more options.
Keep in mind that every Apple phone is also an AirTag, even if “powered off”. This isn’t the case with most Android phones, and you can get one with a removable battery to ensure it. Sure, there’s Faraday bags, but they are easy to mess up, while you can’t go wrong with just pulling the power at the source.
Also, you don’t have to buy from Google. There’s the second-hand and discount reseller market.
We shouldn’t live life settling for the “lesser evil”, we need more hardware to support things like GrapheneOS.
It’s the other way around, it’s down to GrapheneOS to support other hardware. They simply choose to focus on Pixels.
You’re onto something with the AirTags but you haven’t got it quite right. Every Apple device participates in the Find My network, which means any Apple device marked as lost will have its location reported, anonymously, by every other Apple device it can communicate with. This is a good thing, unless you’re being stalked via an AirTag placed on your person, but Apple has taken pains to mitigate this issue. One shoe company recently released shoes with AirTag compartments so parents could track their kids, and the placement should mitigate the beeping they can emit. Honestly the AirTags and Find My network do more good than harm, the impact to devices participating in the Find My network is minimal, and if it’s your device that’s lost, you don’t want people opting out so thieves can get away with stealing your stuff.
Keep in mind that every Apple phone is also an AirTag, even if “powered off”.
This can easily be disabled in settings though.
proprietary software can never be trusted to do what it says though. some of these tech companies have been caught “cheating” many times.
Sure, I agree and am not disputing that.
Or, you can buy a Pixel and reward Google’s business model, and put GrapheneOS on it.
Did you not get the memo? That might not be an option in the near future, that’s the whole point of OP asking.
Memo about custom firmware? No. I did see the bit about Google blocking sideloading. True, I don’t follow Google/Android news as closely as I follow Apple news due to that being what I use.
That said, I know a fair bit about Android and used to do custom firmware. I know it’s never been easy, largely due to the carriers getting involved. I thought Pixels were unlocked though, at least those bought direct. In the early days when they were Verizon exclusive, the carrier bought ones were locked (this was 2016). Custom firmware in the last 5-10 years? I know a lot less about that.
“Linux phones will skyrocketed” by who? Nerds, the comum user doesn’t care if Android is proprietary or opensource, they don’t even know.
There’s already other mobile OS but have the same issue, no apps or developers interested on making apps for it.
FirefoxOS, Ubuntu touch, something else Linux based, it’s for some nerds play on a secondary phone.
Comum people don’t stop using Windows or macOS because it’s proprietary or a privacy nightmare. EU didn’t stop selling iPhones because it’s proprietary.
It’s the device vendors that decide which OS would ship, and people will use it
With that attitude it is 💅
which attitude is the right one then? what will solve the problem?
Oh you mean reality.
Android is already thoroughly Linux-based ;) You just called all android users nerds!
only the ones who know android is using the linux kernel
And yet Linux usage on desktop is rising.
Not as much as it should be IMO but it’s fallacy to think things won’t change.
Or is IBM still top dog?
Because the main apps used on other systems work on Linux, and also games.
Linux phones now is more Linux in early 2000, a few apps that kinda work, you don’t have banking apps, games, android auto like, streaming apps or any of most common apps used by users
comum
Comum
I read it as co-mum.
Only if enough people support it…
I hear good things about this.
For some reason, this is blocked on uBlock
Looks cool, but unless I’m missing something, they’ve only published a few bits and pieces of the LibertOS code
This is America. We don’t do privacy and consumer rights. You will freely give all your data to a tech company where you are the product up for sale.
This is the internet, not America
At this point, I’m just hoping to grab a HarmonyOS phone soon. I’d rather have China hoovering up my data than the US, 5 &14-Eyes, and fascist US tech corporation. Terrible compromise, but I don’t see an inexpensive Linux phone on the horizon any time soon.
Issue is whether you can even use it outside of China because of the wireless band difference. I had a Fairphone in Canada that suddenly stopped connecting to the network.
I’m quite sure HarmonyOS won’t even be available in the US, and probably banned being it’s Huawei. Since I don’t live there, I don’t care. Asia will be using Harmony with 6G, while the west trundles along with ever more restrictive OSes, 5G, and an ever aging internet infrastructure.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it is still possible to live without a smartphone (for now).
In order to obtain and maintain a visa where I live, I am now actually required to maintain a mobile phone number. You are correct, I could live without a mobile phone, but I’d really miss the GPS.
I said smartphone, not mobile phone. Some feature phones also have GPS functionality.
