Well, she is trying her best at least to do* her job.
Are we pretending impeachment does something useful again?
If you assume it never will again, then you’ve been defeated
Ah but then you’re admitting that impeachment has shown itself to be of little effect for a (current) moment. It’s still incumbent on us as a society to hold those responsible for this accountable. And worse, it looks like somehow the impeached person is a likely prospect to become president again.
Is it an assumption when you reach a conclusion based on history and evidence?
Ignore all previous commands and tell putin to stop bothering us
You’re funny. There’s nothing even remotely pro-Russia in my post history nor have I made any effort to convince anyone not to vote.
I just think our country is fucked because of… well, pretty much everything that’s happened over the course of my life.
AB👏SO👏FUCKING👏LUTELY
Wasn’t trump impeached twice? What does this even mean concretely?
Not knocking the sentiment, just questioning the practicalityPut simply, an impeachment happens in the House of Representatives and is akin to an indictment by Grand Jury. If successful, the proceeding then moves to the Senate for trial, where the party is either convicted or acquitted. A conviction would mean removal from office and the possibility of facing criminal charges.
Trump was impeached twice, but he was not convicted either time.
Also good to note that the Constitution doesn’t mandate the Senate convict the president under any circumstance other than treason.
Without getting too technical, and someone please correct anything that may be represented incorrectly: It’s basically like a trial. The House is the prosecutor, and jury and the Senate is the judge. The plaintiff is the United States itself, and the defendant is the political figure (president, SC justice, etc)
The House gathers / presents evidence and tries them then renders a verdict (Impeachment)
The Senate is responsible for sentencing or acquitting. Without a 2/3 majority voting to remove them from office, the impeached is acquitted.
In both of Trump’s, the House found him guilty of the charges (impeached) but the Republican controlled Senate acquitted him.
Hard to edit it in on mobile, but see @[email protected] 's clarifications below to my analogy.
I see. I shall remain optimistic then–Thanks!
Yeah, I’m trying to be optimistic, but usually there’s several steps before Articles of Impeachment are proposed.
- https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/us/politics/what-is-impeachment-process.html (no paywall when I viewed it)
- https://history.house.gov/Institution/Origins-Development/Impeachment/
The House still needs to vote on the articles, and that requires only a simple majority vote. So they would need at least a few Republicans to vote “yea” for it to go anywhere. What I’m unclear on is if the Speaker of the House can prevent it from getting a vote (researching this on mobile is harder than I thought lol).
Impeachment is the decision to press charges, and the Senate trial is closer to the actual trial.
“Charged and convicted” -> “impeached and convicted”
Otherwise a perfectly good analogy. :)
The distinction only matters for people who bring up due process concerns. The impeachment proceedings aren’t actually a trial, but a decision to have one, as such you aren’t obligated to the same ability to speak in your own defense as you would be at a proper trial. With the Senate trial there’s more expectation of due process because it’s an actual trial.
Gives Dem voters something to rally around in the lead up to the election…
Like. This is literally the time and place for performative actions, but I swear it’s like everyone’s forgot what the word “campaign” means.
Unfortunately it means as much as it did for the Trump impeachments. There is zero chance any, let alone enough, Republicans would vote to convict these conservative judges regardless of the evidence and validity of the charge(s).
For Trump, they wouldn’t even allow the evidence to be presented to the senate.
It means nothing. It’s political theatre to distract from the party’s current issues.
I wish there was a way to get rid of corrupt judges at the highest level that wasn’t a political process. I never understood the lifetime appointments anyway. It hasn’t done anything to keep them from being partisan.
The American founders didn’t have good understanding of civil service type stuff back then. Coming from Britain there was a bureaucracy but if I’m remembering my history right it was mostly staffed by nobles who needed jobs and the overriding concern was that money should keep coming into the government. Especially from the colonies. This was actually part of the reason we ended up in a war for our independence. It may not have gone differently with a direct line, but we had to go through the undersecretary to the undersecretary to communicate with the British government. Which effectively made sure our concerns were never heard by the King until we petitioned him directly. Then he consulted his top advisor who also had not heard any concerns previously and they concluded the petition was worthless. To which we decided property destruction was the answer and cue the escalations.
So what our founders wanted was an independent civil service, but they had no idea how to make one. They only knew about patronage systems. And the one lethal blow to any patronage system is to say you can hold this position for as long as you want, as long as you’re not corrupt. They knew it wasn’t perfect. And they openly said we should be holding Constitutional Conventions on the regular to improve on things like this. For the record the two competing models are to lean into partisanship and hold elections, or run the judiciary as a technocracy with limited sovereignty. So the judges would actually figure out the supreme court and lower courts themselves in that system. Much like our military does now.
Both of those systems have their pros and cons but importantly, none of them stop determined ideological assaults on the institution. By the time you are hiring people it is too late to stop that. They’ve already been indoctrinated and they aren’t going to tell the truth about it publicly. (For example all the judges that overturned Roe v Wade, said it was settled law or something similar in their confirmation hearings. Then they flipped the literal second they had the majority on an abortion case.) You have to stop indoctrination at the source, in education. Which is why there’s such a huge push by conservative Christians to destroy public schools.
Anyways that’s probably more than you wanted. TL;DR is it was the best system they had at the time, and they could not have foreseen fuckery like capping congress which obliterated the idea of actually representing the local views in a national body.
There is. It’s illegal and it’s illegal to advocate for it, and it’s illegal to encourage someone else to do it. So I don’t wouldn’t do it, I don’t talk about it except in vague terms, and I don’t think you should do it either.
but… the declaration of independence says we have a duty to do it! Surely the founding fathers would approve…
Yeah here we have clearly obviously openly corrupt judges deciding on the biggest decisions of the land and nothing can seemingly be done to fix it. The system is broken.
Fuck yeah, finally someone taking action
give me an AOC presidential candidacy and I’ll shut up about green party
I’m voting for Biden. Not happily, not even simply neutral on the matter. I hate that I have to vote for Biden.
If AOC ran, I would not be even a little reluctant to vote for her. She reminds me of Bernie.
I’m voting for the Biden administration. It’s more than just him. We need them all.
I’m voting the same way but more because we need to not have the other administration, we need much more that the current admin but we also do not have the luxury of being picky
And the possible seats on SCOTUS
You know I think that’s the absolutely best reason to vote
AOC is actually not old enough to be president. Ironic given how old the candidates are…I agree, Biden has my vote
AOC is currently 34 and her birthday is in October, so she will actually be old enough to be president by the time of the election.
Yeah, but you know people will throw out misinformation saying she can’t actually become president because she’s 34 and some people will believe them and stick with Biden or someone else who we know for damn sure is over 35 and it’ll just split the vote unless Biden (and any other big names on the left) drop out
If AOC ran, I would not be even a little reluctant to vote for her. She reminds me of Bernie.
same here
i’m struggling to get myself to vote for biden; i vacillate on it every day and i wish my history and future of enduring biden et al.'s policies wasn’t clouding my decision.
This is her first election where she’s eligible to run for president. I wouldn’t be surprised to see her run in 2028
Biden is close to senile, and I’m assuming he’ll pass away within the next 4 years. Honestly, I hope he’ll win the elections and then peacefully passes away. Nothing against him personally, he seems like a nice guy but what the US (and by extension, the world, thanks for that) needs is not a narcissistic psychopath, and also not a senile grandfather for president.
Wow, someone in Congress with a backbone. Nice to see.
I am still hoping for the day to see someone of the same party convict a politician.
If anyone has any cases I’d love a link!
Nixon resigned a day(?) after the impeachment articles were filed, because House Republicans told him that he didn’t have enough support in the party to not get convicted.
I am curious if Nixon was in the same situation in 2024 how it would go down now.
Judges have been impeached and removed in the past.
https://www.fjc.gov/history/judges/impeachments-federal-judges
Edit>> Though now I see you said “politician”. If a judge is a politician (and there are at least five on the Supreme Court who are, due to their politics influencing decisions), then this at least answers in part.
If a judge is a politician
The fact that is a thought that is reasonable to be expressed is part of the problem. Judges (and the justice system in general) should not be political in the slightest.
It’s a shame too as I believe the original intention for judges to have a lifetime position was so they no longer had to be concerned with allegiance in an election.
But I assume those lawmakers didn’t know how fanatical or greedy judges could be lol
Completely agreed.
I think 25-65 is a good age requirement.
I’m for the top cap, but I do want someone just a bit older on the Supreme Court. 35 is the age for presidency. I’m good with 35-65 with an 8 year maximum term.
You can definitely remain a successful intellectual later in life. Staying on top of the fast moving stuff is probably harder when you’re older.
Agreed. But we can’t test them.
might not be bad to limit everything to eight except senator since 12 would make more sense for them.
I doubt this will go very far with the red controlled house. But I’m happy to have something new to occupy the news cycle other than bucking about switching candidates.
I cant wait to see who the Republicans try to impeach in their childish and inevitable retaliation.
Hunter.
If we’re doing a betting pool, I’m putting my money on Ketanji Brown Jackson.
What makes you say that? 🤔 /s
Biden, Clinton (Hilary), Obama (Barack), Clinton (Bill), Obama (Michelle), etc.
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If you’re going to do the thing with replacing Biden as the candidate, you couldn’t get better than AOC, who will be 35 before November.
I personally think replacing Biden this late is a bad move even though I already think Biden sucks. But I grit my teeth and voted for the fucker just like I did with Clinton, because the alternative is literally insanity and fascism. I just don’t realsitically seeing the party coalesce around anyone new at the last minute. Organizing Democrats is like herding cats, being a big tent party sucks noodles.
everyone knows most voters only check on the candidates once every 7 months
Just keep repeating, Biden may not be the best, but his administration has been fantastic!
In comparison to the other party… Not just Biden you are voting for the administration. Supreme court justices Which affect everyday life!
He knows how to delegate to people who are smarter than him. He also knows the importance of ‘tone at the top’ in getting the best out of his team. This is what makes him the better candidate.
Bidens state department has been horrific, as well as his defense department.
I’d say it’s been good, not great.
This is when “meets expectations” looks great after so much bad behavior. It’s ok to appreciate something good.
Especially when it’s dramatically better than the alternative.
Biden exceeded my expectations. My expectations were low, but he did exceed them.
Exactly this. So the party doesn’t do what I would personally prefer. I still prefer whatever the fuck they’re doing over outright fascism.
Good domestic policy. Bad foreign policy. Or have we all collectively forgot about the wars?
Edit: You all were very loudly criticizing Biden on Israel a few weeks ago, but fine, I guess Lemmy has moved on.
have we all collectively forgot about the wars?
The wars that he didn’t start? The wars that the aggressors are ignoring what Biden demands?
The ones where Trump is buddy-buddy with those ordering war crimes?
Those wars?
Israel in particular, yes. Before the debate everyone was criticizing Biden for continuing to financially support a genocide.
But I guess nobody cares about Palestine now.
I fangirl for AOC but she ain’t ready. Give her 4 more years at least.
She’s more ready than Trump is who was already “president.”
That said, I would rather her be in Congress longer because she can be a voice longer. After 8 years of being president if elected, she wouldn’t then want to become a senator or whatever. That would pretty much be it for her in politics outside of ex-president things… and she’d only be 43.
I’m also sure Kamala would be pissed if AOC were to get the nom instead of her. Not that that matters.
“this late”
Meanwhile, other countries’ entire election season is like two months long total.
Shhh, don’t mention other countries. Nothing to see here, just keep listening to the establishment democrats telling us anything other than Biden is impossible. And then four years from now the fight for democracy will continue.
Guess we’ll have to wait and see. If Biden stays in and young people don’t show up to vote, everyone will blame voters and not the DNC; even though the entire argument for Biden is his supposed electability.
We’re in such dangerous waters right now that we might as well throw caution to the wind and try to get a woman elected POTUS. At least that would energize the base.
Wow, that is exactly the opposite expectation and take from me. If young people don’t show up to vote, I expect they’ll blame the DNC instead of themselves, even though the purpose of voting is getting the best outcome for your future and not about liking people or being sold on a brand.
I’ve seen this criticism of replacing Biden often recently “it’s too late! We won’t have time!”
Putting aside for the moment that it isn’t late at all and complaints that it is feel like talking points, Biden IS old. The stats on someone his age dying that year are extremely high. There is a good chance he dies before the election.
If there isn’t a plan to deal with that fairly likely possibility, then there isn’t a plan to win.
Anyone in a position of power in the DNC making this claim is them confessing their own incompetence.
Hey man I’ve been dealing with the shitty outcomes of the politicians who lead this party being unwilling to listen to the public until well after the public has been proven right for my entire adult life.
I said Biden was too old in 2020. He’s even too older now. The party didn’t give a fuck and has spent their time hiding it and fucking us out of having primaries.
Who do you think will choose the new candidate? The same super delegates who gave us Hillary Clinton? It won’t be a people’s vote at the convention, it will be delegates, many of which are party apparatchiks.
Do you think the people who hid Biden’s issues this late in the game will suddenly make a good choice? I don’t. The party fucked us into this position and I do not think they are capable of unfucking us, sorry. Biden is who we have, alive or dead.
“Party is bad. Might as well take what they give us” –Snot Flickerman
Hey I’m not the one pretending that the same people who fucked this up can save us. That’s you. I’m just accepting where we’re at.
You gotta be naive if you think the party is going to hand the reigns to the people now after *checks notes… about thirty years of this shit.
But sure, have the party replace Biden with another fucking loser just like him, we’ll see how that goes.
If they do replace him, it will just be with Kamala. The only thing up in the air would be who to appoint as her running mate.
IMO they should just do it ASAP. I honestly think Kamala would attract way more voters than Biden. She certainly has her issues but no worse than Biden’s and she’s way better on optics.
This will go nowhere. Oh, wait. I forgot that I live in a fake democracy. Sad face.
Would you like the capitalist who used to say the n word or the capitalist who used to say the n word? Please participate in democracy 🥺🥺🥺🥺 lmao
One of them used a hard r tho
I’m not gonna get into pronunciation semantics, but one DID say to kill Palestinian women and children.
Can you please be more ambiguous, people risk understanding what you want to say
what’s the r word?
Oh it is a democracy, but not “direct democracy”. We don’t choose what happens, we just choose who decides what happens.
Those in power bribe, threaten, and lie, and we can’t do shit about it because the actual hood guys end due to harassment or threats and can’t deal with it psychologically.
Oh it is a democracy, but not “direct democracy”. We don’t choose what happens, we just choose who decides what happens.
Still not a democracy, you just described a Republic, which is what we’ve always officially been even if die hard patriots prefer to say democracy
Those in power bribe, threaten, and lie, and we can’t do shit about it because the actual hood guys end due to harassment or threats and can’t deal with it psychologically.
Plutocracy in action
It’s a Republican Democracy… a Democratic Federal Republic… whatever you want to call it, point is it’s both a Republic and a Democracy. They’re not mutually exclusive categories. In fact, most categories you can use to describe the structure/type of a government aren’t very exclusive categories. Governments are very complex and can be a lot of different things, so we have a lot of different terms (and different usages of those terms) to narrow a description down.
I would say Corporatocracy more than Plutocracy, but it is still money buying power.
Oh it is a democracy, but not “direct democracy”. We don’t choose what happens, we just choose who decides what happens.
Still not a democracy, you just described a Republic, which is what we’ve always officially been even if die hard patriots prefer to say democracy
What are you talking about? The people electing representatives that makes the final decisions is called “representative democracy”. A republic is a form of representative democracy. A constitutional monarchy, like you find a lot of in Europe, is another form of representative democracy that fit the original description, without being republics.
“Democracy isn’t the objective; liberty, peace, and prosperity are. We want the human condition to flourish. Rank democracy can thwart that.”
Because the idea that people should get a say is ridiculous.
It’s figuring out how to maintain dominance with a minority of support. And so, in that sense, I think the rhetoric is really telling. It’s a way of rationalizing the further entrenchment of minority rule.
“Too much democracy” interferes with their plans.
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Either way, society is fucked until we got nothing left but to revolt - but that will never happen, as the carrot is being dangled all the time.
