*please note i deeply value and respect the vegan movement. i am just critical of how humorously it precipitates in online spaces, particularly this one. :)
You must log in or register to comment.
first time i heard someone using the term carnists it was being used as an insult and i was so confused because “wait why are vegans mad at carnivals now?”
I once had a fling with a vegan girl who referred to me as a “carnie”, intending it to be a jab at me. Having worked in a carnival for several years I found it hilarious she tried to make it an insult.
Awww they’re not hurting no one…
exactly 😂😂😂😂
You misunderstand.
I get the fun and appeal of being a little mean, but you’re punching down innit? It feels weird to call out a group that’s not hurting anyone.
i call out groups all the time when they do funny stuff
marvel fans aren’t hurting anyone either but i often make fun of them :) i wouldn’t personally call that punching down but if you must, feel free i guess
marvel fans aren’t hurting anyone
This is how you get slapped by Martin Scorsese
he’s right behind me isn’t he
Absolute 🫷😀🫸 Cinema
It’s… so counterproductive. It’s like zero waste, we don’t need a few people doing it perfectly, we need millions doing it imperfectly. By being such dicks and so combative about it, they actively are stopping people from having anything to do with them and reducing their animal product consumption. I’ve recieved various responses to this, from “If someone being mean to you stops you from not continuing to torture animals then you’re a really shitty person” (and like yeah you don’t have to convince me, I’m already suicidal, but contrarianism and not liking groups that are dicks to you is human nature) to “I don’t care, you’re evil and deserve to feel bad” it really seems to me like those people ironically just like hurting others and don’t really actually care about improving lives for animals. Give up animal products? Sure! Give up shitting on people? NEVER! Certainly not all vegans are this way but the vitriolic ones online certainly are and give the rest such a bad name.
pretty good summary and it’s sooo much an exclusively internet problem
Imagine being such a coward that you specifically choose to start shit on a community that has downvotes disabled.
It’s nobody else’s fault when an instance configures itself wrong.
I have provided polite feedback about the utility of downvotes, in threads that went ‘it’s great this instance has no downvotes, so everyone has to use their words for polite feedback!,’ and some ShitJustWorks admin put a boot in my ass like I was ruining their fun. The modern internet’s idea of civility is complete nonsense.
Are you referring to Lemmy? As I write this, I can see your downvote count (7) as well as your upvote count (12).
I am using Voyager for Lemmy on Android. It has a setting to show both values instead of just the sum of them (which I believe would be default setting).
If a server has downvotes disabled (as does dot blahaj dot zone), you will only be able to see downvotes coming from your own server (which is dot world).
unblocking you temporarily just to say that this is by far the tamest callout-style post i have made in a hot second, 196 or not, both in my messaging and in reception :) people are being by and large very chill here and i am proud of this fact. when you see insults getting thrown, report it as it’s not allowed here. oktakecarebyeeee
Sure, it’s super tame if you ignore the insults getting thrown against vegans, which are far more than the ones in the opposite direction both in this thread and elsewhere around Lemmy. But since those are sent against the same people you’re throwing hostility against, everything is still “tame” to you. Fucking amazing.
“Could it be that I’m annoying and the broader Lemmyverse just doesn’t like me? No, it’s OP who deliberately got them going and turned them against me”
I’m not a vegan and I’ve never insulted people for eating meat, but I have eyes and I can observe that people get far more shit for being vegan than for not being so on this site. Keep on deluding yourself to maintain the fantasy that you’re not in the wrong, though.
people get far more shit for being vegan than for not being so on this site
Get over yourself. Nobody cares what you eat, they care when they proselytize and demand that everyone takes their views. People don’t hate vegans, they hate annoying soapbox screamers.
Nah.
That’s a nice argument, senator. Why don’t you back it up with a source?
TIL there’s vegan slurs. Don’t think I’ve ever been called something specific for being pro-meat. And I do loooooove my meat-based diet, let me assure you. No vegan slur would ever change that.
um, good for you?
Congrats bloodmouth.
THATS THE ONE! I was trying so hard to remember the new one I was called that I really liked. That one is t-shirt worthy. One half over the other in a bloody grin.
hehehehe ‘bloodmouth’ 🤭🤭🤭 i love it too much
It’s beets
“Carnist” is one the weird ones throw around. Makes it sound like I worship the Flesh Mother, the Great Changer.
Which is pretty cool.
I’m not into that. Can I still be a carnist if I worship a flesh daddy instead?
Glory to the Flesh Mother!
As we consume thy flesh, transform us into thy carnist servant!
Grant us thy will through thy flesh, Great Changer!
Renew the world through thy emboldened flesh!
I fw this
it’s not a slur, it’s the name for the ideology you follow. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism
Thinking it’s a slur is as silly as people thinking cis is a slur and exactly as reactionary.
Imagine being proud about a diet that’s destroying the planet. Even petrol companies pretend not to be ass holes.
Meh, I wouldn’t say proud. I’m just not going to change it. If you don’t want to eat meat, don’t.
I’ve got solar panels, I ride a bicycle, don’t fly, don’t have a car, I recycle everything properly, I conserve water, and generally try to consume less whenever possible.
Is meat bad for the planet? Sure. But by and large, I don’t think me eating meat three times a week is going to have much effect. I’m much more concerned about people elsewhere on the planet discovering the joy of meat, like growing consumption in China.
You did say “I love meat, let me assure you”. That’s pretty proud.
Firstly, other moral goods don’t rebuff moral wrongs. Owning solar panels doesn’t mean it’s morally okay to kill animals for your tastebuds.
“I don’t think me eating less meat will have much effect”. I mean, if everyone thought like you, global warming might happen. If everyone thought like vegans, (and went vegan today) we’d literally solve the climate crisis. Animal agriculture accounts for 40-60% of total emissions.
How can you be concerned about growing meat consumption in other countries? “Gee I sure hope people don’t act like me, that’d be concerning!”. Rules for thee.
That’s not to mention the antibiotic crisis where treatment resistant bacteria are developing in animals due to overuse in livestock. Or the development of animal flus like birdflu, corona virus, swine flu, ebola etc etc, which emerge from consuming animals.
You’re doing so much good, why not do the little extra step of going vegan? It’s so easy nowadays. Good for you, good for the planet, good for the animals. There’s no practical downside?
why not do the little extra step of going vegan?
because it’s ineffective at addressing the issues facing the environment.
Animal agriculture accounts for 40-60% of total emissions.
all of agriculture is only about 20% of our emissions, so this just can’t be true.
There’s no practical downside?
inconvenience, social ostracization, and aesthetic deprivation are actual downsides. further you don’t actually know what is good for them: you’re not their doctor. finally, it would be better for the animals if it shrunk industry. the industry grows every year, so it is not any better for the animals.
You did say “I love meat, let me assure you”. That’s pretty proud.
Fair enough, I can see how you’d read it that way.
How can you be concerned about growing meat consumption in other countries? “Gee I sure hope people don’t act like me, that’d be concerning!”. Rules for thee.
Yep, it’s hypocritical, and I accept that. But it’s still a cause for concern, considering the broader context.
Over the past decades, we’ve seen a global rise in living standards. Especially in countries like China and India, which represent a significant chunk of our global population.
China’s poverty has fallen dramatically over the past decades. The average Chinese person is now much better off than they used to be. If you look at poverty figures, you’ll see a nice little ski-slope: back in 1990, effectively 98 percent of Chinese wereliving below the current poverty line. In 2019, that was down to below 16 percent.
Same thing for India: a dramatic poverty decline since the 1980’s.
If you’re at least somewhat aware of economics, you’ll understand that an increased standard of living also leads to more consumption: people can now afford cars, they can afford to travel, they can afford more food - which includes meat.
China is already the world’s largest meat consumer - but there’s a catch: they’re lagging in per-capita consumption. Experts predict that with increased urbanization and rising income levels, Chinese people are going to eat more and more meat. Because they can finally afford to do so.
Meat consumption is also on the rise in India. While there’s certainly plenty of Indians who don’t eat meat on religious grounds, actually over 70 percent of the population does eat meat.
So, see why I’m worried? Because they’re going down the same path towards overconsumption that we ware. Is it hypocritical to say to a no-longer-impoverished Indian or Chinese person that they shouldn’t want meat, cars or shiny new phones? Yes. But one can also hope that they learn from our mistakes in that regard. Overconsumption is going to have a profound impact on the scale of those two countries.
That’s not to mention the antibiotic crisis where treatment resistant bacteria are developing in animals due to overuse in livestock. Or the development of animal flus like birdflu, corona virus, swine flu, ebola etc etc, which emerge from consuming animals.
Those are certainly things I’m worried about. Especially considering recent history regarding covid. God only knows what meat production is like in some countries, and I shudder to find out. It’s only going to get worse if producers try to fill that increased demand.
You’re doing so much good, why not do the little extra step of going vegan? It’s so easy nowadays. Good for you, good for the planet, good for the animals. There’s no practical downside?
Well, honestly, at some point it gets really tiring to shoulder the burden of basically everything. I’m using a computer to type this, my previous post was on a phone. They both contain lithium, cobalt, coltan and other materials, a lot of which get mined with either exploited workers or outright slave labor. The clothes I’m wearing were probably made by an exploited worker in a sweatshop. And you can keep going on and on and on. There’s really no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism, as any economics professor will point out.
So on some days, I like to enjoy a nice burger. Even if it might not be good for me or the planet.
If you value veganism either you should be vegan or you’re lazy and want others to fix problems while you hinder them
I can’t handle not wanting to kill myself, let alone a giant change in diet. What’s this, another way in which my existence is detrimental to others? Add it to the fucking pile, it’ll be enough to get me to kms eventually.
Look I’ve got terrible depression and chronic nerve pain. Idk what to tell you, hurting isn’t a good reason to hurt others.
Personally I tend to feel better about myself when I’m doing good, I think that’s pretty common. It’s not so difficult of a change, if you learn like 5 solid lentil/bean based meals you can make easily (such as stews you can just throw in a pot) then you can just rotate through those as you learn.
Something like a chilli non carne, Moroccan chickpea stew, couple of dhals, and a pearl barley stew with lentils. I can dump some of what I use to avoid starvation when brushing my teeth is a 2 hour battle if you like?
You’ll have more of an impact trying to convince people to try meatless mondays than you will by shaming people who aren’t fully vegan.
I uh don’t think you understand what veganism is about.
I’m queer, and for a long time I was not allowed to marry my wife. Imagine how ridiculous it would be to say something like “you shouldn’t shame people for not treating you as an equal. You would have more of an impact trying to get people to recognise your relationship for medical authority purposes”. It’s just completely missing the point.
Humans are not fundamentally different to non human animals. Each one of them deserves dignity and respect, every cage must be empty.
Passive aggressively wagging your finger at people who haven’t committed completely to veganism won’t empty any cages. Convincing people to reduce their consumption peacemeal will. It sounds like you care more about the sense of self satisfaction than you do about the animals being harmed though so go off.
🙄 when you get angry at racists, sexists, sex pests, DVers, people that beat dogs, whatever are you angry because you want to feel a sense of self satisfaction? Or because it hurts you to see people hurting others and behaving in reprehensible ways?
Yeah me too.
For every person I see who is actually vegan, there are a dozen people who complain about the existence of vegans, denounce vegans as hypocrites, and insist vegans are doing veganism wrong. And thank the heavens for all those vegan Indians, or the numbers would be so much worse.
Americans simply have no idea how fucking expensive it is to produce meat at the scale they want to eat it. We are one Dust Bowl away from ground beef going to $12/lb and patriotic burger-eaters lighting the suburbs on fire in protest.
I get vegancirclejerk posts in my feed and in most cases I am not sure if these posts are serious or just making fun of vegans. Most of the time it looks like troll posts. It’s more like a meat-hate cult.
Its a circlejerk, the whole idea is to troll
deleted by creator
Hi there!
I believe the old mods of vegancirclejerk were inactive, I was just recently promoted and hoping to change that perception! I agree, WAY too much unironic carnism is posted there.
deleted by creator
carnism
you are the person this post is about
I think a big problem is that most people who stumble upon posts from Vegancirclejerk are random non-vegans who see it in their feed. Is it even possible to exclude communities from the everything feed on Lemmy?
It’s a shame because VCJ and VFCJ were my favourite communities on Reddit but the vibe on their Lemmy counterpart is not quite there yet. I just want my cruelty free echo chamber back dammit.
Is it even possible to exclude communities from the everything feed on Lemmy?
Yes it is, I have blocked several and never see them unless a sister on another instance gains traction
Yeah seems like it, either way it’s cringe. On one hand these are sicere and that is just too bad for vegan comunity, on the other hand it’s pure trolling - which is just sad.
It’s more like a meat-hate cult.
Lesbians?
Girldick tho
lesbians may love meat on occasion 😁
What in the goddamn is a ‘goofy slur’?
hyuck hyuck
I’ll fucken do it again
[Goofy falling yell]
deleted by creator
I guess I don’t see the posts you’re referencing.
Also, I think you meant participates, not precipitates.
no i mean precipitates, it’s one of my favorite words
e: a synonym would be “manifests” or “incarnates”
Wow, I had no idea my known definition of precipitate was so low down the list of its meanings. Thanks!
and thank you for letting me flex my favorite word :)
I’m glad to see this interaction contributing to Lemmy’s cordial atmosphere.
Because as they say, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate.
<EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER>
Also a favorite of mine, but that meaning is usually transitive. So it “precipitates <something>”, not simply “precipitates”. A more syntactically equivalent synonym would be “causes” or “leads to”.
Like “slightly misusing a word on Lemmy precipitates a nerd-off”.
“manifests” and “incarnates” are also both capable of being transitive, and i in fact use “precipitates” transitively here, it’s just that i kind of left the object of that verb implied rather than stated, most likely because i was rushing to not get cancelled
an example would be saying just “i like how quietly clouds precipitate” where “rain” is left off because implied. i recognize my sentence was a lot less obvious for sure tho 😝
It’s true and cringe, you should still go vegan though
No.
Great argument
Hey, at least I’m not one of those weirdos who drinks stolen breast milk
I buy mine.
From a consenting woman or from a breast milk thief?
It fell off the back of a titty truck
I personally love cheesebreather, bloodmouth, and milk-drinker.
Bonus points to milk-drinker because that’s not even a term made by vegans to call people coward babies. Play Skyrim and you’ll hear it all over the place!
Carnist doesn’t count because it’s not technically an insult. It’s just a name for someone that practices carnism. Carnism IS terrible, but the purpose of the word is no different than Christian to Christianity.
It’s hilarious that carnists get so butthurt about being called what they are though so I enjoy that part.
I always feel like “carnist” implies they’re a pervert too
Filthy, degenerate carnist out there holding hands and hamburgers!
I personally love cheesebreather, bloodmouth, and milk-drinker.
see i just couldn’t keep a straight face if you tried to say those while making eye contact 😭😭
I’m glad accurate discriptors of your lifestyle seem as ridiculous to you as they are!
bloodmouth sounds like the name a supervillain
or their last name, idk
Carnist seems to imply that they eat ONLY meat though. They’re not carnivores, they’re omnivores. It’s on the same level as using the terms pro-abortion and pro-life to describe the two sides of that debate. This kind of name calling of an out group is not too far removed from all the wacky names flat-earthers give to all the rest of us just living here on the globe not being wack-a-doos.
Using the term butthurt is some straight up 90s era homophobia too. Nice.
From my understanding, carnism is closely related to speciesism. Most people wouldn’t eat dogs or cats, but happily eat chickens, cows and pigs.
That could be carnivore, carnist means they follow carnism, which is the ethical framework that justifies human subjugation and exploitation of non-human animals
genuinely curious, how is ‘butthurt’ 90s homophobia?
It isn’t. It’s in reference to “having a stick up your ass”, which means being uptight and overly serious. Because they are stiff, as though a firm rod had been run the length of their body.
People also mistakenly believe that to be a homophobic phrase too. Mind you, there’s a slim distinction here. Telling someone to “shove it up your ass” could be considered homophobic, though I think of it as just rude. I feel like context would matter a lot here.
The youth today think everything insulting must be a slur of some kind and are obcesse with moral purity.
The youth today have nothing to do with it. It’s reactionaries who take a genuine issue (people using actual slurs) and apply it to situations that work in their favour (acting like ‘carnist’ or ‘cishet’ are slurs).
I can’t find anything except random tweets saying as much, and a medium article behind a paywall saying it isn’t.
So… I have no idea either.
I think carnist is a useful word that a lot of people get caught up on. As you say it’s not a pejorative, just a word that describes someone who chooses to eat meat as opposed to carnivore which is a creature that can only eat meat. All humans are omnivores, but not all are carnists.
Reddit had some vegan communities that were about recipes and food-porn shots without constantly talking shit about people who ever eat anything non-vegan.
Lemmy… has some vegan communities.
You’re not kidding. The ones on here go out of their way to make sure non vegans never turn vegan.
They seem to think that if you don’t immediately go vegan you’re trash, instead of helping slowly push people in that direction.
I’m not a vegetarian but my culture has a ton of great vegetarian options. I give these recipes to friends after they have them at my place. This is a good first step to get people to eat less meat. Just make good food that happens to not have meat. Baby steps. I would say about a third of my meals are vegetarian at this point.
Preach
Some things are so horrible and evil that it’s difficult to ridicule them, it requires a lot of creativity.
Carnismisn’t one,carnismis an academic term, andcarnistjust means “a proponent of carnism” (it may be in some dictionaries already).https://www.carnismdebunked.com/
Deal with it, meatflakes.
“Debunked?” It’s delicious, and that’s a subjective truth for me that cannot be debated - there’s nothing to debunk.
Solipsists are truly the worst.
You should try human flesh. There are some countries that humanely kill unadoptable children, their flesh is subjectively delicious, it’s an undebatable truth! And if that’s not to your liking, Elwood Dog Farm humanely slaughters all numbers of dogs for your gourmet pleasures. Debunk that, vegans!
I have no problem with eating non-pet dogs, but there is real danger that comes from cannibalism. Don’t be stupid.
No more danger than eating puffer fish. Avoid the brain and spinal tissue, you avoid the risk of a prison disease. Besides, if we’re talking about dangers to our health, veganism is quantifiably healthier and correlated with longevity.
And what do you mean “non-pet” dogs? Why wouldn’t you want to eat your pets? They live a much happier life before their slaughter, and it’s easier to manage the texture of their meat when they’re live-in stock.
You haven’t thought this through much, huh?
veganism is quantifiably healthier and correlated with longevity.
in some respects for some people. some of the studies (china study, for instance) have been debunked, though.
you aren’t a dietician. even if you are (i admit, i was guessing), you aren’t my dietician, so maybe you shouldn’t be telling other people what a healthy diet would be for them.
meatflakes sounds good. mmmm like bacon bits on a donut
I’ve got a few family friends who were livid when they found out their daughter had watched the movie “Bambi”, because they were convinced it would make her Go Woke the next time they tried to go deer hunting.
“…but I’ll happily eat someone else who has been made ‘my’ bacon!”
Too bad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I bet he did want to be my ham though!
This classic is for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAF35dekiAY
bro said meatflakes 🤣 say it again
