Vance is one of Trump’s most vocal supporters and an outspoken critic of U.S. aid to Ukraine.
. . .
Vance has said that it would be “completely irresponsible” for Ukraine to join NATO. He has also argued for the U.S. to focus solely on preventing Chinese expansion, even if that means sacrificing sovereign Ukrainian lands to Russia.
“Any peace settlement is going to require some significant territorial concessions from Ukraine, and you’re gonna have a peace deal, because that’s the only way out of the conflict,” Vance said in February.
Another Russian stoogie.
Not everyone who disagrees with war or your position on it is deep throating Putin.
They have Putin’s cock firmly up their ass but they tell themselves it’s just a turd.
But someone that blatantly argues for Russia’s benefit probably has some ulterior motives. Doesn’t have to be deep throating Putin, money will probably do.
I mean it sounds like he wants chea p Russian labor and goods to compete with Chinese versions of the same.
He’s a Republican. He just wants to personally get rich and doesn’t consider or care what happens to other people on the way to it. Sacrificing half a country that isn’t his so that an oligarchy can turn around and sell back the oil, gas and coal of the land and potentially farm goods at a cheaper slave labor produced price sounds like shrewd business practice to him probably and figures it would get him on the good side of Putin a man with powerful connections.
He misses the mark that China and Russia are working together and you can’t really separate that to get one to hurt more than the other. But that’s getting to much in the weeds of his plans.
I know it’s hard but people generally aren’t some evil spy or some terrible monster aiming to cause destruction. A lot are just people. Self centered and uncaring of the pain they cause and sure they didn’t do anything wrong cause it was supposed to work out for them. People don’t need to get paid first to be awful.
I’m not Republican.
Everyone uses third person pronouns to refer to Vance and the suddenly you can’t figure it out when faced with a counter argument?
Really? Are you for real?
Some of them just hate Ukranians for no reason?
Not wanting to fund a war doesn’t mean they hate Ukraine or it’s citizens.
Okay, let me walk you through this.
You see a kid down on the floor being kicked by a bully.
Your ‘solution’ is to not intervene, because you’re ‘against violence’ ?
Fucking logic.
Right!
Except the kid is across the world, and we don’t know them very well. Last we heard, they were one of the worst children in the world. Instead of asking the neighbors to pool money to build a boat to go save this kid, you go to all your neighbors and steal that money.
Fuckin’ a logic.
Oh, so you do hate the kid.
That clears it up, thanks.
You’re welcome, glad you could put more words in my mouth.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
🤮
how does he always look like he’s like 3 days into a binge drinking session?
Oh look, he shaved his beard for Daddy Trump. Wouldn’t want Dear Leader to disapprove of your facial hair now would we, Jay Dee?
He has to continue his twink transition. He’s obviously the bottom in this relationship.
I’ve been on the outside observing this escalating shit show for 8 years now and I think I’ve finally reached the point where I don’t even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.
I mean, I know there’s a lot of history behind it etc., but just the past months? I don’t even…
I hope shit gets better for ya’ll, I sincerely do.
Putin is behind all of it
I’m Finnish, so if there’s one thing I’m aware of it is Putin and his various machinations.
He’s not. He didn’t put a gun to the head of the judges que made the president immune to prosecution. He didn’t punt a gun to the politicians denying climate change. He didn’t call on Trump’s followers to storm the US capitol. All of that was the US and it’s people.
Putin was probably just cheerleading his puppets as it all happened. But make no mistake, seeds only grow in fertile soil.
Don’t worry. It won’t. As an American, I too have reached that point as well.
Still rooting for all the millions of you that I know are awesome people, but …yeah.
Don’t worry about it, a lot of us in the US feel the same. I’m just tired, boss.
don’t even have the words to convey what I feel about the current state of American politics.
It’s just fascism, volks.
Can you imagine this clown being president when the rapist with 34 felonies is deemed unfit for office or has a McHeartattack?
Good. No more war. No more foreign aid. We need to focus on Americans and America.
It’s not mutually exclusive, which of his policies are actually focusing on Americans?
Last time we did that we had 2 world wars back to back
Can you expand on that? Seems conflicting.
A policy of no war, no foreign aid and especially focusing on America and everything in it… how did that lead to world wars?
I’ll answer the “why would it now lead to disaster” part, and by shuffling names, places, & contexts around I believe much of that can be obliquely backported to the same question with respect to runup to the world wars of yore.
USA’s multi-decade cultural imperialism and dogged pursuit of economic hegemony led to it imposing itself as a global barometer and gatekeeper (despite being famously incompetent at both). The upshot is that now, even though philosophically it would be wonderful for the US to finally stop enforcing a petrodollar-driven serfdom on so much of the world in the name of “infinite (US economic) expansion”, pragmatically speaking a magical and abrupt “pull out” would be wildly irresponsible, much like yanking an arrow out of a wound in the direction from which it entered (causing a Jackson Pollock’s worth of collateral damage). That would largely be because the sudden power vacuum would not be able to be filled in time by other countries (who are under-resourced due to aforementioned hegemonic squeezing), leaving not enough people to “not tolerate the intolerant”, leading to explosive expansion of the “ignorant bullies masquerading as politicians” brigade (not unlike Hitler’s opportunistic power-grab while the politicians who should have been the ballwark against him hubristically sat on their hands). See: https://www.ournationalconversation.org/post/explaining-the-paradox-of-tolerance
Well, the U.S. doesn’t have to worry about enforcing the petro-dollar, because the Global South is pulling away from the petro-dollar. The U.S. is going to have to start looking into opening up those oil reserves that Biden closed and bringing jobs back to America that were exported to other nations. Self sufficiency, at least more so than current, needs to be the goal. The world, outside of the Western World, is turning its back on the U.S. and rightfully so… sooner or later so too will the Western Powers turn their backs on the U.S.
I agree though that an abrupt pullout like Biden did in Afghanistan is a stupid fkin idea and should be done gracefully.
Manufacturing jobs, and most other low wage jobs, never left the US. That is a lie fed to you by your wage slave masters. The US currently manufactures 300% more products than we did in 1972 which was the last year of the golden age of the 20th century US. The wage slave masters automated those jobs, so we do triple the production with 1/100 the workforce.
We are already self sufficient. Isolationism will not help any of your stated goals, and will cause global instability.
So I work in the IT industry… almost everything IT related, some portion of it has been exported overseas. Same goes for the customer service industry.
Sounds like you need unions. One of the many reasons I left IT was the complete lack of unions.
He still wants to send all the aid Israel will not ever want to commit genocide.
Unfortunately the U.S. belongs to Israel.
And fkin lol @ people downvoting:
No more war.
No more foreign aid.
We need to focus on Americans and America.
Holy moly, some of yall are insufferable.
If you think US can sustain itself without foreign products, you’re high on your own farts. Open a window to the basement, get some fresh air.
I never said anything about trade… wtf lol
Holy shit, can you not think just one little step ahead?
You jumped to the conclusion that I’m asking for some kind of self imposed trade embargo. You’re pretending to, “think one little step ahead”… you fkin with a game of checkers, I’m on 4D Chess. GTFO. lmao
Yeah. I can see you’re not the sharpest hoe in the shed.
Playing 4D chess… As the pigeon.
we heard you the first time. get down voted twice ig
Vance doesn’t want that, he just wants out of this particular conflict so he can start shit somewhere else.
God forbid.
Yes, it would be bad to start another war somewhere else.
Lmao, living in a glass house during a hail.
“Let’s focus on not getting hit”
Yes, that’s kind of a pre-requisite to being on Putin’s payroll…
He’s clearly on Peter Theil’s payroll. Theil personally bankrolled Vance’s senate campaign and was the only one Theil funded that was successful.
If you keep making up conspiracy theories that every Republican takes orders from Putin, you’re going to miss their actual agenda. Shit like Project2025 isn’t Putin’s agenda. Thats a Koch project. Theil’s got his own techno libertarian eugenicist project that Vance is an acolyte of.
Removed by mod
Without NATO we’d have said bye bye to Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and maybe Poland
Remember, if russia does it, it is NOT:
- Facist.
- Imperialism.
The irony of someone with the handle anticolonialist spouting talking points in favour of an imperialist land grab where they are literally creating colonies of Russians along the corridor of Ukrainian land between Russia and Crimea is just beautiful.
No one is supporting anything like that. If the US would stay out of everyone else’s business the world would be a much better place
Removed by mod
Go away
I’m not going anywhere. I will call out US imperialism and colonialism every chance that I get and I will stand against anybody defending that imperialism.
Russia invades its neighbour, unprovoked, explicitly to seize their agreed sovereign territory
“Why would America do this?”
Removed by mod
I mean, that’s straight up not true lol
Your claim is that Ukraine - while not at war - was bombing itself? And that would be a legitimate casus belli for Russia to invade them, and then seize that territory for themselves?
That’s a batshit insane take
Removed by mod
Oh silly me, your argument is even worse than I thought!
So the “bombing the Donbas” you’re talking about is the previous time Russia declared an unprovoked war against them!
“Russia had to invade, because last time they invaded, the Ukrainians fought back. Those bastards!”
Edit: as an aside, you somehow still managed to be entirely wrong, despite not even saying anything in your reply directly - the internet isn’t free, it’s extraordinarily expensive to run, and costs the consumer to use their ISP, too!
So tired of your repeated misinfornation and outright propaganda. You’re done here.
https://www.crisisgroup.org/content/conflict-ukraines-donbas-visual-explainer
deleted by creator
Though your misinformation campaign is off to a VERY good start, I’m afraid that it bodes badly for anyone taking you seriously enough to consider anything you say as resembling a point, let alone a good one.
My favorite was when you tried to say that Pelosi and Schiff demanded that Biden step down, and when I proved you wrong with direct quotes-
You ran away.
Removed by mod
Ahhhh… right. That wasn’t you. I get you all confused. Same message, same….
Anyway-
It was you though, that admitted you were here to disrupt an election. Haven’t forgotten that part.
And it’s just as stupid.
Removed by mod
Oh come on now… don’t try and paint over it. What you said was:
I actively encourage anyone to withhold a vote from Trump or Biden
Actively- Encourage.
You are urging people to NOT to vote.
THAT IS DISRUPTING AN ELECTION.
Removed by mod
Yeah according to that guy we must demilitarize when we have a big crazy neighbor who wants to swallow us all. Great idea /s
I don’t know why my comment got deleted by that pathetic loser moderator, I essentially said I agreed with them.
Removed by mod
Removed, civility.
Removed by mod
Removed, civility.
Good thing it wasn’t as Putin has shown Russia is still a threat to innocent nations who aren’t protected by NATO membership.
Removed by mod
Gee, I wonder if there were any major shake-ups in the Ukrainian government circa 2014 that could have explained this change in tune.
Ukraine wasn’t able to join NATO because of active territorial disputes regarding Russia’s 2014 illegal annexation of Crimea. The 2022 invasion and intervening Russian-backed fighting in Donestk and Luhansk were naked imperial land grabs trying to force Ukraine back into the Russian sphere of influence despite their democratic processes repeatedly trying to move towards the EU.
Or in simpler terms, imperialism is actually still bad when Russia does it and it’s weird that you don’t seem to understand that.
democratic processes
“Democracic processes,” you mean seizing power through force in a coup and then banning major opposition parties.
Even Yanukovich had been trying to push for EU membership, AKA the guy who was the target of the so-called coup you’re bitching about. He had to shift gears when Putin’s attitude changed and he could no longer split the two, but the whole “euro” part of Euro Maidan was about the sudden shift away from the EU.
Cool. Corruption is inheritance from russia and nomenclatura.
Are we liking them facts?
Removed by mod
So because they are corrupt they have to surrender to Russia and the West isn’t allowed to help them defend themselves? That’s like saying that a person deserves to get shot by the police just because he has a criminal record.
Also the EU already approved Ukraine’s candidate status for accession and accession negotiations officially opened this year. So if Ukraine does things right they will be a member of the EU in ten years give or take. Guess what article 42.7 in the Treaty of Lisbon is. It’s a mutual defensive clause. So end of the day they wil be protected by the bloc whether they are a NATO member or not.
I’m not complaining. Only way I’d be happier with his VP pick is if he took up Rubio and forced him to give up Florida.
Vance is also a snake and he’ll backstab the orange man at some point most likely.
Vance is a cuck. He was a harsh critic of Trump until he wasn’t.
I don’t see how Vance gets Trump any extra votes. They appear to attract the same kind of people.
If they win, it gets Vance out of my state. Which is fine (I voted for Tim Ryan).
Vance is a cuck.
Politics aside, are we shaming people for their sexual kinks now, if they’re not harming anybody?
Those who want to ban my kinks should not have theirs respected
Unless their kink id humiliation, then theyre 100% valid
Ordinarily yes, but the second you try to ban porn or gay people, your fetishes no longer deserve respect and neither do you.
The joke was that people with a humiliation kink would want to be disparaged, so “respecting” them is giving them not what they want
Yes.
I’ll give you whatever answer you want in the hopes you’ll go away.
if they’re not harming anybody?
Funny that you think people like J.D. Vance aren’t harming people…
Politics aside
Fuck off.
Vance is there so Trump can scapegoat him for handing Putin everything he wants, that’s about it.
Putins favorite, JD Vance.
deleted by creator
I thought the maggots wanted to leave NATO.
They do, but they also don’t want other people in it, either.
I agree that Ukraine has lost land due to the US/NATO stopping Russia-Ukraine peace deals and talks in 2022.
I am anti-war, so peace deals should be at the forefront; war is a Last Resort[1].
Many on the ‘far left’ and ‘far right’ say:
NATO is a terrorist organization.
[1] Papa Roach - Last Resort 2020 (Explicit) [03:22 | Rap, Rock, USA, In English, Rap Metal, Mental Health, Metal, Alternative Metal, Nu-Metal] https://youtu.be/D2Jl27lYExU
Dear god you are tiresome
As a European I’m so gratefull people didn’t “go for talks” on that day they stormed the beaches… sometimes you have to actually fight for your ideals and not water them down every time they are opposed…
Oh yeah, the one that goes “cut my land into pieces, for oligarchs’ resorts”
This sounds like something stupid Joe Rogan would say lol
Do you watch Joe Rogan directly or do you just watch people that talk about him and tell you what to think about him?
The guy got famous making people eat blended rats. I don’t need to listen to his podcast to know I don’t give a shit what he has to say.
But what if I told you he sold brain supplements to make his listeners smart?
A hearty diet on bended rats made me who I am today, so I do not recommend it.
You do know “You agree to stop protecting yourself and I’ll consider potentially maybe not bombing your orphanages and hospitals nearly as often, possibly.” is not a Respectable Peace Deal
If you are anti-wat, you hoyos be against Russia starting them in the first place or at the very least support making it not worth it in the future. Forcing Ukraine to give up territory is neither of those.
What peace deals were those? Must’ve missed them.
The peace deal where Ukraine gives up its territory.
And then Moldova, and then Lithuania, and then Northern Finland, and then I pinky promise peace.
Removed by mod
And I was agreeing with you bud. My point is that as long as we concede, there will always be further concessions required along the road if we want “peace”.
The guys at the Kremlin are bullies, we should already have learned our lesson.
Sorry wasn’t intending to be a dick. I don’t even remember what I wrote.
Hope you are having a good week!You weren’t, I got that it was a misunderstanding and I was just saying “blue on blue”.
Anywho, have a great weekend you too!
not even peace deal, that was ceasefire. when all that was given up only then russians wanted to negotiate peace deal
Removed by mod
useful idiot
Great show; I made communities for the hosts!
You reminded me to share a video, thanks!
Useful Idiots is an informative and irreverent politics podcast with journalists @aaronjmate and @kthalps
It was a peace deal where Russia would have withdrawn to Feb 23 2022 positions, hostilities would stop and Ukraine would agree not to join NATO. Boris Johnson flew in and said that NATO would give them money to keep fighting. Fast forward two years later and we have tens of thousands more dead Ukrainians and much more lost territory, and a terrible negotiating position.
Please cite an official Russian source putting forward that offer.
You want me to look it up just so you can say “THATS A TERRIBLE SOURCE!!!”. I am going to pass.
So pulled out your arse then, gottcha.
If world wide news is considered my arse, then sure thing bro.
I mean, if it was world wide news surely it would be easy to get a reputable source like AP reporting that Russia officially made that offer?
I mean it’s not hard to Google “Boris Johnson Ukraine Deal”:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/22/boris-johnson-ukraine-2022-peace-talks-russia
“As Charap and Radchenko show, the reality is a bit more complicated. Johnson didn’t directly sabotage a ceasefire deal in spring 2022; indeed, there was no deal ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine. The two sides hadn’t agreed on territorial issues, or on levels of military armaments permitted after the war. Ukraine’s position during the negotiations necessitated security guarantees that western states were hesitant to provide. And there were domestic political questions inside Ukraine related to Russian demands about “denazification” to contend with.”
So, no, it’s not as cut and dried as CableMonster makes it out to be. There was no fixed “deal” ready to go, at best it was a negotiation.
As Charap and Radchenko show, the reality is a bit more complicated. Johnson didn’t directly sabotage a ceasefire deal in spring 2022; indeed, there was no deal ready to be signed between Russia and Ukraine. The two sides hadn’t agreed on territorial issues, or on levels of military armaments permitted after the war. Ukraine’s position during the negotiations necessitated security guarantees that western states were hesitant to provide. And there were domestic political questions inside Ukraine related to Russian demands about “denazification” to contend with.
So no, they hadnt agreed to revert to the feb-22 borders, that was still a matter of contension, and Russia were pushing for Ukrainian disarmament post war (i.e. surrender).
My dispute wasnt that there were attempts at negotiation, obviously there were; Macron in particular made a big show of pushing for them. But the idea that Russia ever offered status-quo ante-bellum (as they suggested) is ridiculous.
Correct, but I’m also going to lean on the side of Cablemonster either mis-remembering the facts, or mis-understanding the facts, rather than mis-representing the facts.
The Guardian article I found is presented as a fact check, so the idea that Boris Johnson killed a peace deal is clearly something that’s been floating around in the zeigeist.
Fair enough, personaly I find it hard to give the benefit of the doubt to people from that instance when it comes to topics like this.
Remember Chamberlain? He made his allies submit to german concessions because that would maintain peace. Fast forward five years and we had 40+ million more dead Europeans and the continent bombed to rubble.
Is every war WW2 for you guys? Do you know the non-propaganda reason this war started?
Russian expansionism.
Thats the propaganda version. Why did russia invade Georgia? (Hint: its the same reason they invaded Ukraine)
Yeah, that’s what I said, russian expansionism.
The ones where Ukraine agrees to defund its military completely and stop asking for aid and Russia paints a little smiley face on their bombs in order to seem more friendly of course!
All I need to see is that beard / haircut
And the eyeliner
This presupposes he believes in anything. I haven’t read it because everyone said it was garbage but I’m pretty sure he wrote his memoir about “Appalachia” when he grew up near Dayton, OH.
I haven’t read it either. There is however a If Books Could Kill episode about it that is very worth listening to.
I find it weird that his teacher pushed him to write his memoires in college. Who writes his memoires this early and why would a teacher push him to?
I read it. It was not garbage, it contains useful insights. I recommend that people read it to understand politics. BUT, NOTE, CAVEAT: Approach it with your critical thinking cap on. The author is an unreliable narrator, which is unorthodox in a work of non-fiction.
“Unreliable narrator […] in a work of non-fiction” is a fascinating way to say, “liar”.
He also cosplayed a poor person to speak to rich people about how “We poor people have horrible habits!” in what I can only refer to as a minstrel show for the privileged.
That’s a pretty good description.
He also cosplayed a poor person to speak to rich people about how “We poor people have horrible habits!” in what I can only refer to as a minstrel show for the privileged.
