So when I worked in last 2 roles, I’d joke around and have a laugh with colleagues, the workplace culture of those places I guess was more relaxed, but I got that sense of lack of camaderie or fellowmanship from others too during my time working.
Sorry to be naive, but is it because some people look out for themselves and it’s kind of “Yeah you’re a funny guy but uh… when shit hits the fan I ain’t there with you” kind of shtick.
Not saying these guys are assholes or anything, but I just think with the current world in any work industry it seems to be tricky to make real friendships inside and outside of work.
I don’t know if this just me but I notice that big distinction of the joking around and sharing the same invested topics (I.e. video games) but no more than that
TLDR - Confused if people are being genuine, but they don’t really “care” in a sense?
Please let me know if I’m spouting gobbledygook, thank you.
Different companies have different broad cultures, and different subcultures within teams. Some companies just don’t have a sense of camaraderie built into their broad culture.
One thing that people don’t always understand, and I always point this out to people I work with, is that your professional relationships are much more important than the company itself. Everybody is going to move on from their current job some day. When that day comes, they will benefit from having strong relationships with past team mates, either by knowing folks who can help them get new work, or by knowing folks who they can bring in to tackle projects at the new job.
Your professional network is one of your most valuable assets in your career. The people you work with are real people, with real families. Relationships with great team mates are more important than the company you both work at now, and will outlast your time at that company. Camaraderie is key to that whole scenario. Make sure you reach out to people you respect and enjoy working with and tell them how much you value that professional relationship. You will both be better off for it.
I always say: if I’m ever in a situation where I need a job and can only get one with a former employer - do I want them to say “hell yeah” or “hell no”?
I’ve worked with people who, if they had to ask me for a reference, I would decline to give one. By the same token, I would reject their application for a job in my company or team. And I have worked with the opposite - people who will always under any circumstances get help from me if they’re looking for a job. All the competence in the world doesn’t help if someone is miserable to be around.
Having contacts, people who are willing to give references and similar always helps. Sure, you can do job hunting hard mode, but why make things unnecessarily difficult?
In my experience Boomers, Gen X and older Millennials generally want to socialize at work. They grew up in a office environment where you were constantly around your coworkers and social media was in its infancy.
Younger Millennials and GenZ mostly want to make a paycheck and go home. They generally don’t want to socialize with people outside of their circle. I sometimes think genZ is way happier at home 24/7 and don’t want human interaction. Could also be they just don’t have the money for it.
Lots of conjecture incoming:
I’ve asked myself this same question, and coming from a military background rather than anything more typical, I think it coalesces as something altogether different depending on the situation.
When I was stuck on a ship with hundreds of others, underway two or three weeks out of every month, 6 to 8 month deployments sprinkled in just for fun… Hard not to come out of a situation like that with some lifelong friendships.
On the other hand, in the years when I wasn’t on a ship, almost regardless of the work, even if we were friendly during the day, when the time came to go home it was like cockroaches when the lights come on.
I’ve come to the conclusion all these years later that it was some combination of shared hardship, forced closeness, security in employment, and a core belief that we were all working toward the same goal. We were in it together, and it felt like it.
Social relationships come from everywhere, even work, and while there are many people who worry that friendships at work will distract from… I don’t know… There are still plenty of people out there who want to make the day go by a little faster by working with a friend.
Maybe it just comes down to people not being committed to their work, because why would you be? Sticking your neck out, working extra, helping others, etc. are punished in a lot of different little ways, to the point that the best alternative is just to hop between jobs, staying one step ahead of accidentally giving a fuck.
DoD work (both civilian and active duty) tends to bind people together a lot more than other industries, in no small part due to the factors you mentioned, but also because a) the additional barriers of national security/clearance work make it only really possible to vent about work to coworkers/friends from work, b) the work can often be unique enough that only coworkers have shared experiences to bond over and empathize with, and c) the civilian side of the DoD tends to attract career folks a lot more than it does transitory people. I think a disproportionate amount (when compared to private industry) of civilians who hire into the DoD stay in federal service for their whole careers. And people sticking around their whole careers tend to invest more in personal and professional relationships in the workplace, because networking is how you get opportunities, and you never know who you might owe a favor some day (or who might owe you one).
There is no incentive to doing note than bare min at work and helping people is more hassle than it is worth.
With that said, you ain’t got to be toxic but most work is just that straight up toxic lol
Spot on. This lack of secure employment (and yes, also probably lack of sense of purpose) also undermines the social relationships necessary to collectively bargain (with a union or not) for better working conditions. When workers don’t feel they have each other’s back, they are less likely to pressure an employer for better pay and conditions.
This is a pretty insightful comment.
I’ve come to the conclusion all these years later that it was some combination of shared hardship, forced closeness, security in employment, and a core belief that we were all working toward the same goal. We were in it together, and it felt like it.
This seems to explain why people who work in restaurants can often be close. There’s the shared hardship of dealing with a dinner rush, there’s a lot of forced closeness in the kitchen, and everybody’s working towards the same goal, whether that’s just getting through the shift, or trying to produce a really amazing dining experience.
There’s probably another one: depending on other people who work right next to you. If you’re working alongside other people but everybody’s working on their own project it’s going to be different than if you depend directly on the person next to you for whatever you’re doing.
Maybe it just comes down to people not being committed to their work
I think it’s the lack of all the things you mentioned. At an office job the hardship is pretty mild other than occasional “crunch time”. There’s some forced closeness, especially when people are crammed into an open-style office. But, I don’t think that’s the same kind of closeness you get in kitchen, or on a ship, or in a factory. You may be working towards the same goal, but it’s often a nebulous and distant goal. And, often, the goal isn’t something that feels particularly meaningful. You’re helping ship a product that may or may not be vaguely useful to some customers you’ll probably never meet.
But, I think the big thing is the lack of security. In the military you literally can’t leave, and unless you do something insane you’re not going to get fired. At most jobs, it’s extremely easy to leave, and many people feel like they’re always on the edge of being fired or laid off.
So I went through fire academy in a trade school. We had a small class of 12 and months of mutual challenges. Learning how to get gear on, buddy checks, doing search and rescue searches crawling around blindfolded. Then doing live fire training in an old abanodoned house the academy bought for us, cutting open cars etc. It was the closest “Band of Brothers” feeling I’ve ever had with a group.
In the military it’s similar but not as intense imo. Still being with the same group with the same goal forms bonds and friendships. After going to your usit we mostly do the same thing as everyone else. Clock in and clock out trying to get shit done asap to maximize free time, but we still have spent deployments and tdys together. We give a shit about the big picture when it counts (large operations, helping Ukraine etc) but on the daily we mostly just try to help each other get through the day but it’s not totally friends centered. Bottom line is still that we’re all here to do a job, but that doesn’t mean you have to be socially isolated.
What you’re saying is a bit gobbledygook. I don’t want to make friends at work. I want to do my job and then clock out when finished.
Yeah but not all people need or want that. I agree with op. Camaraderie makes the job easier.
Not all people want to fake the “office family” dynamic.
I feel like that’s a different thing. “We’re a family” is a forced perversion of actual meaningful relationships with co-workers.
I will concede there is a spectrum of professional familial attitudes.
I do agree though, that the forced family is the worst.
At some point, someone found out that people who get along with their coworkers work better and like their job better. So, some dense HR directors thought, “If we want people to work better, we should force them to be friends!”
Then you get mandatory team-builders that maybe two people enjoy, and the rest are thinking about how they’d rather be spending their time.
Forced family is the worst
But this is literally how family works for the first 20 years of your life. You don’t get to choose one. You are assigned one from birth :D
You’re missing the point. For some people, it’s not faking it
You can make a friend at work but the actual work is just that, work.
Most people don’t want to be there, they don’t want to interact with you either or anyone there either. It is a sterile corpo ran shit hole.
Also, for owners it is always faking…
If ask them for a raise and see how they react lol
I’m not missing the point. For most people it is fake and used as a tool against them. The “office family” is a tactic utilized by employers to make workers complacent without raising benefits. It’s in the same toolbox as “pizza parties” and “PTO donation”.
Gotta disagree. I’ve always had the belief that if you’re in management, you don’t get to play the comradery game with staff because that can easily be perceived as preferential treatment or fraternization. Management has their connections with other managers. Staff should use their comradery against management. However, your perspective isn’t wrong either. I just believe that even if you’re faking the “office family,” it still makes work that much easier
The office “family” gets in the way of clear and honest communication by guilt tripping anyone who disagrees by treating them like someone who upset grandma at Thanksgiving. It has always been counterproductive in my experience.
The true office family are the ones you hang out in the break room and talk shit about everybody else with.
You got the wrong office family haha. I’ve always had the belief that you should always have the life you live at work and the life you live at home. You’re not supposed to take your work home with you and you should never bring your home to work. But that doesn’t mean you can’t be civil and conserting while at work. And I honestly don’t think there’s anything wrong with your mindset. We all perceive situations in different ways. But being earnest to your coworkers with clear social lines never hurts anything. You should be allowed to be very concerned about a coworker that has health issues, but on the same hand, it shouldn’t dictate your home life or emotions when not there. I hope I’m explaining what I’m trying to say correctly.
Its a cultural thing that definitely exists where I live
Not only that but it makes it easier to care about one another, which gives a greater incentive to unionize.
But they say they are chatting about video games and joking around, what more do you want?
It’s work tho, so it stays there. You have to get on with someone really well to want to see them all day at work and then after as well.
True. Me and a friend of mine used to work together and live together. Then we’d go home after work, get drunk and play video games just to wake up and do it all over. Granted thar was years ago.
I did work with my now wife at one point. But we never actually hung out too much when we were working together because we were management and she would always go hang out with staff which I wouldn’t do
I had a friend who I worked with and then lived together. But we were friends first who happened to share a job.
I met this guy at work. It’s a very long story, but the short and skinny is I was homeless and he and his mom gave me a home. I suppose he’s more like a brother than anything else. They never asked for anything in return. He just wanted to hang out and get into shenanigans. And shenanigans we certainly got into
But you can’t expect it from others who don’t have the same needs.
Isn’t that the whole point of hiring people that fit the company culture? I’ve worked at both types of places in different stages of my life. Both can feel good or bad depending on where you’re at. Don’t try to change the job to fit your needs. Find a different one.
The words “company culture” always make me laugh.
Company culture is the first to go out the window when shit hits the fan.
People being let go for speaking their minds, în the most respectful manner, by a company that “values openness”.
Culture being changed to fit the current corporate needs.
“Company culture” is nothing but corporate 🐂💩.
Don’t drink the corporate kool-aid, kids.
“Not fitting company culture” is just how racists get away with not hiring qualified candidates.
The fit was always code word for suburban whites for a lot of things
Society has caught on now.
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It is just a job and my only need is being paid for doing enough not go fired.
If I remember correctly, this is literally one of the points taken from the sabotage handbook. Is your job really making you so miserable, or is this some kind of organized propaganda campaign?
Is your job really making you so miserable
Management and HR departments are quite efficient on that kind of moral sabotage. It could be an organized propaganda campaign, at least those would make sense.
Doing the work you are paid for is sabotage?
🤡
Is you naive or a bootlicker?
doing enough not to get fired
Ok, not the exact same phrasing, but close enough.
Totally get that. Just saying that different people want different things out of their jobs, and it’s a good thing that there are places where all of them can fit.
Most places suck ass to work for.
Good jobs are few… So most people don’t get what they want lol
Can’t blame you for that mentality
I totally agree with you that I don’t need to make friends at work. I 100% clock out at the end of the day and make a hard cutoff between personal and work life. I can even work with people I personally dislike just fine, as long as they’re not making things harder for others.
But OP was talking about camaraderie, which is mostly just about being generally pleasant to be around - as Merriam-Webster defines it, “a spirit of friendly good-fellowship”. Nobody likes to deal with the moody guy who doesn’t want to talk to anyone either, including the other moody guys. There’s definitely a minimum level of camaraderie required not to make things harder for everyone involved. You don’t have to lean into the “we’re a family” BS not to be unpleasant.
My work team is very close. It’s the reason we all stay. We range from 1 to 34 years and people only leave if they’re retiring or moving for a spouse job. Our office is shelter from the shit going on in the rest of the district. That said, it’s beginning to penetrate and, after 16 years, i may be the first one to just walk.
You all should have a better reason to stay
We love our work. Having a vey close, supportive team makes us able to tolerate the shit that rains down from above sometimes.
Did you mean Camaraderie?
Yeah sorry lol, Guess the autocorrect didn’t fix it there for me!
Word of advice–be a good person to your colleagues, and let friendship possibly develop after one of you leaves. I’ve made many friends throughout the years once we each know there is no pressure to be friends. I’ve had many job leads throughout the years because people I previously worked with thought I was a great colleague.
I think it depends on the industry and circle of friends you can find in that work place. Someone I know works in an oil chang place and they tell off color jokes and what not. I work in corporate and almost nobody does that. I also avoid creating that kind of relationship at work because I’ve been burned on drama from those types of connections. But I still manage to have a couple of people I trust and we’ll joke around and curse.
Poor leadership. A good leader can set the tone for better or worse. Unfortunately leadership is very rarely taught, so bosses tend fall back on their upbringing. A leader is at the front working harder than everyone else and suffering with their team, a boss is at the back telling everyone to work harder while suffering nothing. A boss who is also a leader is far to rare.
It really depends on the people and the environment. I’ve worked places where the whole crew would go out after work quite frequently, and we had a great time, other places, I barely learned people’s names.
I like chatting with coworkers and building a “more than just a coworker” relationship, but I don’t need it, so I don’t push for it. More of a door’s open if you want, kind of thing for me.
Because people know bosses pit employees against each other.
From the comments I gather that this mostly depends on the kind of work. I’d assume anywhere that is a “career” type place vs “just a job” will have different kinds of attitudes. At a “just a job” you want to just gfto when you clock out. I’ve mostly had jobs in relation to education or creative, and most of the people there just want to connect.
I’ve always had friends and good times with coworkers, many of whom I’m still in contact with to this day, hell, I’ve helped some of them move.
I have a ‘just a job’ and to give you a different perspective: we are bored as fuck and many people survive by socialising. People make friends and start relationships there all the time. There’s a social club and other groups of friends that regularly see each other outside of work. It’s also shift work with regular overtime and weekend work so people can’t always easily socialise outside of their job.
This has always been my experience as well. My first job was “just a job”. But I worked there for 6 yrs and made many friendships during that time. There were many “time to clock out people”, but at least half regularly hung out.
I work in a restaurant and most of us are friends at this point. We drink together, smoke weed together, and generally enjoy each other’s company
I miss the restaurant. FoH was always a slow cat-fight with lots of low-key drama. You make a few friends, turn some tables, grab a beer and go home. It’s uncomplicated work (simple doesn’t always mean easy), or was in my time.
At the IT jobs you have the passionate and the jobbers. I enjoy debating stupid tech things with people but I get that at the end of the day they all go home to their families and real friends after. Our big deal is that even when we’re fighting or Dave’s being a right prick today, we can cooperate and work together like professional adults; and then some of us will hotly debate when and why ipv6 will never happen or something lile that.
But that may be an IT thing. They throw you together for a few years until they cut away half your team, and you have to decide how close you are as friends. The job I quit last year, some of us are on great terms, and we’re meeting tonight. I’m still on a Skype chat - sometimes a call, usually a rolling chat - with some peers from 2003.
There’s no rule that requires you to be friends with your workmates. Sometimes you are, but don’t force it. If you can work professionally with the dinks and make 1-2 actual friends, that’s maybe okay. Ultimately you need to survive work to live, and a good social connection is a bonus that isn’t always gonna happen.
Restaurant friendships are smth else 👌👌
For me, I just don’t have any interest in making friends at work. If we happen to get along, then great! Gimme your number and I’ll text you memes about this week’s House of the Dragon after work. Daemon needs to get the hell outta Luigi’s Mansion, am I right hahaha
But outside of those one-off friendships, I just don’t have the emotional energy anymore to maintain any meaningful connections with somebody just because we happened to apply to the same LinkedIn listing. Life is too stressful to be thinking about even more people and their problems.
Maybe it’s just because of my line of work, but nobody does this job because we want to, we do it because we’re competent at it. We’re not here because of some shared vision or dream, but because the hiring manager accepted “some college” on the applications. We’re only sharing this space as a matter of consequence, not intention. That’s not enough for me to form a bond on in a lot of cases.
Maybe if I worked in a field that I was passionate about, things might be different and I might be more open to connecting with people. But otherwise I’m just here to do what I need to pay my bills, and that’s it.
And yeah, it can be lonely. That part can suck.
Being friends is off the table, but solidarity among workers is important.
People I know from work are work aquantices. Some I have been rather fond of but at the end of the day friends are people I hang with when im not working. I personally have not had work friends. Its like friends vs schoolmates. I have had friends that were also schoolmates but plenty of schoolmates that were not. Again not that I did not like them or that I did not share a laugh with them here and there but it comes down to hanging outside of the required to be at thing.
