It feels like Harris has to run a damn near flawless campaign just to BARELY beat this guy. Yeah you can bring up the current state of the country, but Trump mishandled COVID, there were over 200k deaths, BLM protest and was 2x impeached. And yet, Joe Biden BARELY beat him.

Trump is a convicted felon, liable sexual predator, caused an insurrection on the Capitol Hill, tried to steal the 2020 election (find me 11,000 votes), constantly kisses Russia’s ass, has more pending court cases and gets sentenced next month and overall has been the main driving factor in America’s division.

Yet, this race is STILL either 50/50 or a slight tilt (Harris leads the polling aggregate right now). Harris gets destroyed by the corporate media for almost anything, yet Trump is still lying and saying the most outlandish shit and nobody cares.

Why does it feel standards are much higher for Harris than Trump?

  • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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    USA as a society is mentally ill, where sociopathy is often seen as a virtue. For instance denying poor people health care and food, denying pregnant women with potentially lethal complications the right to abortion. Allowing (white) people to kill (black) people without reason based on stand your ground rules. Refusing stricter gun rules despite countless school shootings. Denying workers a living wage. The list of sociopathy permeating US society goes on and on.

    Now I know that despite this, about half the population see the problems. There are also Americans that fight this, and are world class people. But the other half, somehow confuse Trump’s sociopathy with strength, and admire him for it. Yes this is how it is in USA, sociopathy is widely not only accepted but admired, people want Trump to hurt people, the poor, emigrants, people of color, LGBT. Many Americans want all these people to suffer, for no other reason than their mere existence. Somehow this is OK to even extend to women in general too! As Trump is clearly a major misogynist.

    If you are a normal well functioning person, it’s near impossible to grasp that such hate can be this widespread, and Trump is fueling it, and before him Republicans have been fueling it for decades.

    This makes all the hateful illegal stuff Trump does nearly irrelevant, people simply don’t care, his followers just want to see the people they hate burn. It’s not that Trump isn’t called out at times, it’s just that it doesn’t really make a difference.

    • SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world
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      people want Trump to hurt people, the poor, emigrants, people of color, LGBT. Many Americans want all these people to suffer, for no other reason than their mere existence. Somehow this is OK to even extend to women in general too!

      I can understand that this might be true of people, but sooo many people in this country are women, poor, emigrants, people of color, LGBT. To have as much support as Trump manages to have, clearly there are people within these groups that target themselves… it makes no sense.

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        Remember in 2016 there were LGBT for Trump?
        It was absolutely insane!! No it doesn’t make sense, but there are always a percentage that are delusional, and sometimes they manage to convince others.
        Probably there are people who actually believe they don’t deserve equal rights, this can be indoctrinated through religion, and religiousness in USA is VERY high.
        There are probably also people who don’t see themselves as part of one of the groups even if they clearly are.
        Remember the MAGA woman who was extremely surprised when her husband was expelled because he was an illegal alien? That’s how stupid people can be!
        Because it’s “all the others” not “me” they think.

        • pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io
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          Upper middle class gays somewhere in Gilbert Arizona who just want to see their retirement savings to go zoink. You have your walled swimming pool and Trader Joe’s nearby.

      • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        Common things that pop up in regards to Republicans voting against their own interests:

        Women with the attitude that “the only moral abortion is my abortion.”

        Immigrants who are angry at other immigrants, wanting to close the door behind them. (Just look at Cubans in Florida)

        Log Cabin Republicans, LGBT+ members who are somehow shocked when the party turns on them.

        What do most of these people have in common? Money.

        Trump supporters are more likely to be small business owners. Capitalism doesn’t care about your skin color, your creed, your nationality, your history, it just wants your fucking money.

        It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

        Upton Sinclair was talking about jobs, but this can be extended to… women who financially rely on their husbands becoming more politically aligned with their husbands (especially if they like the lifestyle), immigrants financially relying on the “good people” willing to hire them as an immigrant (stockholm syndrome?), and the number of rich white gay dudes who may as well have been rich white straight dudes at any other point in history is too damn high (they love to hide behind their sexuality when anyone critiques their horrible positions, “You can’t critique Tim Cook for tax dodging at Apple, he just came out, he’s BRAVE!”).

    • jelloeater - Ops Mgr@lemmy.world
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      For what it’s worth, alot of us see the problem and are doing what we can to help. To stick up for queer folks, to not buy products from places like Walmart, and tell everyone we know to vote for people with empathy.

      Greed is good, became the norm.

      Conservative folks want to conserve what they have, at any cost. Simple as that. Fuck you, I got mine.

    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      If you are a normal well functioning person, it’s near impossible to grasp that such hate can be this widespread, and Trump is fueling it, and before him Republicans have been fueling it for decades.

      the only reason this shit ever gets this popular is literally because of fascism.

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    Because the kind of people who run CNN and other staples of traditional media are the same people who covered for people like Jimmy Savile.

    Mark Thompson is Chairman and CEO of CNN. Here’s some blurbs from his Wikipedia, the Savile one being the most salacious.


    In September 2010, Thompson acknowledged some of the BBC’s previous political bias, which he said he had witnessed early in his career. He stated: “In the BBC I joined 30 years ago there was, in much of current affairs, in terms of people’s personal politics, which were quite vocal, a massive bias to the left”. He added: “the organisation did struggle then with impartiality”.

    Fucking news to me, mate.


    Although Thompson departed the BBC before public exposure of the Jimmy Savile sexual abuse scandal and is not noted in the BBC chronology of the unfolding coverage, Thompson faced questions about his role in the events around Savile’s actions and BBC coverage of them. According to a New York Times review, Thompson denied knowing of a BBC Newsnight programme on accusations against Savile before it was dropped soon after Savile’s death in October 2011.

    Literally everyone around Savile is fucking trash.


    In a 4 February 2024 investigation by The Guardian, some CNN staff blamed their channel’s newly appointed director Mark Thompson for what they described as biased reporting of the Israel–Hamas war. The staff criticized their network’s coverage of the war, charging that it had promoted Israeli propaganda, and gave more attention to Israeli suffering, and the Israeli narrative of the war. One staffer claimed that this bias was systematic and institutionalized, as many journalists’ stories were forced to be cleared by channel’s Jerusalem bureau before publication. Staffers claimed that statements by Hamas and the Palestinian Authority were rarely reported on, while Israeli statements were taken at face value. A CNN spokesperson denied the charges of bias.


    That’s to say nothing about the pro-Trump head of Discovery (which owns CNN) David Zaslav slobbing this guys knob.

    Discovery CEO David Zaslav shared, “I am confident he is exactly the leader we need to take the helm of CNN at this pivotal time.”

    Thompson was also formerly at the New York Times, another publication that has been swinging to the right. However, if you check out the Lifestyle section of the NYT, you quickly realize why, because it’s aimed at rich fucks with a second house in the Hamptons.

    It’s literally in their short-term-financial-interest to get Trump. They don’t give a damn about long-term-interests at all.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      Thompson was also formerly at the New York Times, another publication that has been swinging to the right.

      The NYT has been right wing since it was purchased by the Ochs-Sulzberger family in the 19th century.

      The New York Herald Tribune was America’s premier left wing newspaper, but they got bought out by John Hay Whitney, a multimillionaire Wall Street investor, who ran it into the ground less than eight years later.

      The NYT only looks liberal by comparison to the surviving media landscape. They have routinely played host to anti-environmentalism, war hawkery, and bigotry of every persuasion, going straight back to the Eisenhower Era.

      Unlike the Tribune, the Times has focused first and foremost on cultivating a rich vein of lucrative advertisement. It’s a creature of Madison Avenue and K Street. Always has been.

    • BadmanDan@lemmy.worldOP
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      Oh yeah I definitely know all about Zaslav’s love for Trump, hopefully the investors give him the boot soon, he’s been awful for WB.

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    honestly aside from explicitly right wing outlets, I don’t see any particular bias against harris. most outlets will almost alway criticize trump on everything while most of the time they praise harris and sometimes they criticise her on her more progression policies (because most of the media tilts fiscal conservative). it’s rather more of a perceptions of the audience thing. trump has done so many outlandish shit that now most of his bullshit gets filtered out as noise.

    also i don’t wanna be mean but the question “Why does it feel standards are much higher for Harris than Trump?” sounds like it’s coming from an agitated"vote blue no matter who" democrat who is baffled about why would people not vote for the obviously better candidate.

    there are a lot of reasons as you said “this race is STILL either 50/50 or tilt Trump”. maybe it’s because she’s black or female and there are a lot of racist and misogynists out there, maybe it’s because of the electoral college, maybe it’s because of the hold the MAGA cult has over its members, or maybe it’s because harris is refusing to stop arming and helping a genocide and that is turning people off.

    the Harris campaign right now can only change one of these factors. even if you plan on voting, lie on the polls and organise and protest against the genocide because if enough people do this to force the hand of the Harris campaign then it wouldn’t be a close race at all.

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      I disagree on the genocide. I’d love for Biden to stop cucking to Israel, but I don’t think that’s nearly a big enough issue to sway polling fully in Harris’ favor. I’ve yet to see a single focus group video or cross tab where Gaza was a major issue for these voters.

      • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        I’ve yet to see a single focus group video or cross tab where Gaza was a major issue for these voters.

        and even if it is a major issue for them, the vast majority of them are going to concede that issue at any cost.

    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      or maybe it’s because harris is refusing to stop arming and helping a genocide and that is turning people off.

      in terms of this argument, i don’t understand why i never see I/P people talking about russia and ukraine. Russia has lost upwards of 300,000 people in the war effort alone, an entire magnitude more than Palestinian deaths. Most of these being random people conscripted out of nowhere.

      Do we not care about the lives or russians or something? Is this covert racism? Are we just politically tuned into only I/P because modern progressives have only the brain space for one single conflict? (and i don’t blame them, i don’t have time for I/P either lmao)

      They literally only talk about I/P and it’s so confusing to me, do they go outside or anything? It seems like thats the only thing they care about?

      • Soulg@sh.itjust.works
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        It’s a bit different because Russia are the ones who are invading another country. While obviously the insane loss of life is still terrible, I think people would view i/p a lot differently if it was Palestine actively invading and trying to annex all of Israel.

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          i don’t think that’s quite true though. The reason that the russo ukraine war is so bad is because russia thinks it just can do that. That’s the whole problem.

          With I/P it’s not that palestine is invading israel, it’s that israel is “indiscriminately bombing palestine and killing tens of thousands of people” i don’t really see how israel isn’t analogous to russia in this example. The only difference being that russia isn’t funded by the US, obviously.

          you have this completely backwards though. Israel IS trying to annex and overthrow entire sections of the strip. That’s WHY they have settlements.

  • kryptonianCodeMonkey@lemmy.world
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    Because apparently half of the active voters in this country are either greedy corporate cunts, wealthy sociopaths, MAGA morons, authoritarian Christian ideologue crazies, psuedo-intellectual “centrists”/independents that somehow conflate basic human respect for minorities and outright fascism as “both sides are the same”, or some combination thereof. Those type of people are the type that think the ends always justify the means and that the ends they want is a US that looks like a cross between A Handmaid’s Tale, Atlas Shrugged, and modern day Russia. It is one of the most disheartening realizations of my adult life to learn that so many of my fellow Americans are fucking vile people.

    Do keep in mind, that roughly half of voters is not the same as roughly half of Americans. The highest turnout of voting eligible people in the last century was only 66.6% in 2020. Basically every Trump nut votes. It is there entire reason for being these days, to support and vote for Trump. And in 2020, Trump only got 46.9% of the popular vote, i.e. only 33.03% of the US voting eligible actually cast a vote for Trump. The rest of us are either actively trying to stop Trump or are at least not actively supporting him. The absolute BEST thing we can do as a country is to bump those numbers up. There is no excuse for 1 in 3 people to not vote, leaving another 1 in 3 people to have disproportionate power over everyone else’s lives. Complacency and apathy or counting on enough others to do their civic duty so you don’t have to is how Trump wins again. Vote and make every single person you know go vote too. Tell them to register. Tell them to vote early if that is more convenient for them. Whatever. Just go vote.

    Update: The second best thing you can do is vote for state and federal epresentatives and leaders that will advocate for election reforms like joining the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC) and/or abolishing the electoral college, fighting Gerrymandering, establishing new, more fair and representative voting systems (Ranked Choice, Approval, Proportional, etc.), term limits, etc. The goal is for representative government is to actually represent the popular will of their voters. It absolutely does NOT do that right now. That should be our first and greatest goal for our government.

    • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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      It is one of the most disheartening realizations of my adult life to learn that so many of my fellow Americans are fucking vile people.

      I think this is one of the single most important realizations of my societal awakening as well. I actually think a lot of the cognitive dissonance we see daily is a refusal to accept this premise. People refusing to believe that evil people exist in a real, meaningful capacity HAS to have some effect on the amount of people that deny republican politicians are That Bad and attack the left for truthfully acting like they are.

    • Rentlar@lemmy.ca
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      You know what was eye-opening to me? I was once talking to a couple homeless women sitting outside a parish on a cold Canadian winter day, they were saying government needs to restrict access further to free and subsidized programs.

      Apparently there were too many undeserving homeless people using the program that can’t take care of a place if it’s free, so according to these poor women, they shouldn’t let people like themselves have a roof over their head unless they can put up a $1-5k deposit for a unit. I wished them a good day, and gave them $10 each and my gloves…

  • breetai@lemmy.world
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    The president isn’t in charge of COVID. States are in charge of COVID. Pandemics are handled by the states with help from the federal government. BLM protest are once again state issues. I’m not sure why so many Americans don’t understand how the government is run. Presidents are not dictators. They are limited by the constitution and laws.

    No why is the split so close? Harris isn’t a good candidate. She’s wildly unpopular and has been for years. He policies are horrible and the average American doesn’t want them. They are the opposite of what Americans want.

    Biden has always been fairly unpopular. I’ve always thought the guy was an idiot but he isn’t far left. He fairly moderate to Leaning a little right.

    We also have a large red/blue divide in this country and presidents are picked by the EC.

    Trump is a horrible candidate but things ran well when he was in office. People will remember that.

    The short version is we are running two awful candidates and that’s why the elections are close.

    • BadmanDan@lemmy.worldOP
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      Idk about that, several polls are showing Dem enthusiasm around 75-85%. That’s way more than Biden earlier this year. Harris’ base seems to like her.

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        They’re just excited the person isn’t half dead.

        She wasn’t able to get a nomination through the standard channels. They had to put her in the back because they felt she was damaging Biden approval ratings.

        He approval rate is low.

        https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/

        More people disprove than approve.

        I proudly voted for Obama Kamala is not Obama. She’s not Clinton. Hell she’s not even a Joe Biden.

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    Because, on Trump’s side, it’s a full blown cult.

    Trump can literally poop his pants on national tv and eat a mouthful of shit and his acolytes would clap in unison

    However, most people not deranged enough to worship a politician could/would be turned off if that politician, Kamala on our scenario, blatantly lies or makes fun of a disable person or rapes someone

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    you’re asking why fascists and leftists have different standards and morals?

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    It’s the same when it comes to any other countries. The right always gets away with corruption because it’s expected. Whereas the left has a higher moral standpoint so it is being accused of hypocrisy and things get blown out proportion even if small scale corruption occurs. For example in UK the previous government were giving jobs and contracts to friends and family all the time and nobody cried about it. It became accepted. The new left of centre government comes in and gives a temporary pass to a donor and suddenly it’s a huge scandal…

    It’s the same if you care for the environment and ever took a taxi somewhere, or a vegetarian or vegan and have shoes made out of leather. Sure you are doing better than everyone else to help but you are still the devil and worse than everyone else somehow…

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    I’m going to offer an answer because the top responses are either bad or just totally miss the mark. The later responses are just thoughtless kneejerk drivel. It’s worth asking and addressing this question because it’s impact on electoralism are very material, and it’s not for no reason that you made your observation; it’s also not necessarily a bad thing that some politicians might be held to a higher standard than others.

    The question is:

    Why is Kamala being held to a higher standard is the question.

    But “higher” than what?

    Was Joe Biden being held to a “higher” standard? Do Democrats in general get held to “higher” standards? Rotate the question and it’s “Why do we hold politicians to standards?” Are Republicans held to any kind of standards?

    First, I think we need to focus on on if politicians are being held to standards by their voters. I won’t be addressing any kind of cross party criticism in that I want to focus in on the issue of “potential voters” and if those voters hold a candidate that there is some chance they might vote for to some standards ( or litmus, whatever. The first step will be to address if voters hold politicians to standards (not yours or mine necessarily, but the voters own standards).

    Second, I’ll address the “higher-ness” of these standards. Are they relative or absolute? Are the candidate or party specific? Do they change?

    Finally, I’ll address the impacts of this and what it has done over the previous several election cycles.

    I think we can look at the recent case of Joe Bidens candidacy to address if Harris is unique in being held to a standard. Joe Biden started campaigning in earnest in around October/ November 2023. This came at the same time as the horrible October 7th massacre that galvanized world support for Israel in the face of a terrorist threat. Joe Biden had historically been the most oro-isralli politician of any party, long before his bid for even vice president.

    Relatively quickly after the massacre it was clear that Israel was in no way operating in good faith for their purported goal of recovering hostages. It was obvious that they were targeting journalists and iad workers, that there bombing was indiscriminate and focused on population centers and infrastructure for maximum destruction, and that this was in support of the broader colonial mission that Israel has been in since it’s inception.

    Because of this, during the primary process, a movement of voters set a standard: that they could not vote for Joe Biden in good conscience based on the manner in which the US was relating to and supporting Israels now obvious extermination policy regarding Gaza. Biden failed that standard with regards to the Undecided movement, and it had cost him the election long before his disasterous debate performance. Joe Biden had been floundering in the polls well before that debate. Because of this, Biden lost his position as candidate, explicitly because the voters had a standard to which the candidate did not meet.

    Democratic voters are not the only ones who hold standards for their politicians. Consider the case of a post DJT electoral landscape for Republicans. A Republican candidate basically could not get through a primary not towing the MAGA line (even if this hurt their chances later in the election. So even if they are not your or mine standards, Republicans too are held to standards by their voters (if even we find those standards abhorrent). It’s important to understand that in fact these voters do have standards, they just aren’t your standards, and they do hold their politicians to them.

    To conclude section one: all politicians get held to standards. One of the most important politicians of the modern era just had his career ended by not meeting some of them. Both bases of voters have standards which are different and unique to that bae, and both bases hold their candidates to them accordingly.

    Now we come to the question of “higher-ness”. Do bases hold these officials to standards equally? Or is there some sliding scale or uniqueness into the way things are applied. I plan on withholding discussion if the consequences of this to the final section, but I am not disregarding it’s importance.

    In 2008, Barack Obama led one of the most historic campaigns of all time, under the twin banners of “Hope” and “Change”. The iconography of Obama’s 2008 campaign has and will continue to represent a high water mark for political symbolism and its use in electoralism. Barrack ran as a left-wing populist and won his presidency accordingly. However, once in office, Obama struck a decidedly more rightwing/ centrist stance, effectively governing from the center right. His principal legislation was a Heritage Foundation piece of legislation, a lift and shift of what Romney had implemented in Massachusetts, the ACA, effectively ensconcing private control of health care in the US. While voters did give Obama his second term, there was a distinct feeling of a bait and switch from the populist times of 2008 Obama to the 2012 technocratic, neoliberal approach with which he governed.

    This set the stage for 2016, where the demand for “hope and change” was now stronger than ever. Obama has failed to deliver in his messaging and this created opportunities for both right wing and lefty wing populist candidates: Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. The voter recognized that they had not held Obama to a sufficiently high standard, and because of this, they raised the bar (each group according to their own principles). On the left we saw purity tests around no corporate pac money and a wide suite of progressive litmus. On the right we saw “america first” and isolationism. Both the left and the right bases established a higher standard. However, due to reasons behind the scope of this discussion, only the right were able to effectively hold their candidate to that now higher standard (their standards, internally defined). Leaving the era of technocracy and neoliberalism, it was the candidate held to a higher standard that won that election.

    Now examine 2020. Now firmly in the populist era, it was a race on both the left and the right to meet the associated higher standards now established by voters. The Democratic candidates had maybe the most progressive across the board suite of policies ever. And likewise in the right, excepting that they be regressive polocies. Both suites representative of the now higher standards required by their associated blocs. This time however, the more established political players had caught the buzz and responded accordingly. While the DnC was ratfucky as ever, Biden did adopt almost all of those higher standard policy positions to gather those voters into his coalition. His campaign identified the higher standard, held themselves to it, and they won.

    Now we have the opportunity to draw some conclusions. There is a “higherness” to standards but they are not necessarily specific to politicians so much as the demographics and voting blocs those politicians draw from. Standards have changed and increased in scrutiny. Standards are also bloc specific, so it doesn’t make sense to compare standards across blocs: why a progressive chooses to vote or not vote and why a conservative chooses to vote or not vote are wildly different motivating concerns.

    Do standards matter? Objectively yes. Holding candidates to a “higher standard” has represented a winning strategy for voters for the previous 20 years. While those standards are relative depending on which voting block you are courting, the general rule has been that the candidate coming closest to a higher standard wins. This is largely due to a shift away from the kind of technocratic allure of neoliberalism and the general shift towards populism we’ve seen in the past 20 years: it is distinctly the case that we reside in a new political hedgemony.

    Because of the, the prior generation politics of “we know better. just elect the “best” and that should do” has died, and been replaced by stronger willed voters who have specific demands of their politicians. Those politicians who can read and come closest to those demands are the most likely to win: this is an age of populism. Both the MAGA and progressive movement didn’t their roots in the technocratic neoliberal approaches emphasizing credentials and expertise over the will of the voter. This was effectively the political hedgemony of the US from about 1967-1978 until 2000-2012. That was the era of technocratic neoliberalism, which has been fully replaced with populism of two distinct variants (which is typical in populist eras).

    The idea that voters shouldn’t hold their politicians to standards and should just vote for “the one who knows best” is a residual trapping of a previous hedgemony, and extends to almost all aspects of political life and policy.

    Holding politicians to higher has also been a demonstrably effective strategy for getting them into office. In the current political hedgemony, the politician held to and able to meet a higher standard typically wins. In this way a “higher standard” benefits both the politician and the electorate. By extending a higher standard for Harris, we’re making her a more electable candidate. It doesn’t hurt her to be held to a higher standard so long as she strives to meet that standard. It’s good for her as a candidate and good for her electorate in that they get closer to accomplishing their political goals.

  • RawrGuthlaf@lemmy.world
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    They are trying to break through the misinformation being fed to Republicans. And trying to ensure anyone on the fence otherwise doesn’t have any excuses.

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    Can’t believe you are asking this now. In the 70s, I don’t believe any of these yokels would have been elected. Lauren Beaubert, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Trump, they’ve all done things and said things that are so far over the line, it isn’t even funny. Nixon? Please, he would be small potatoes today.

    Why? Gerrymandering. Social Media. Lack of critical thinking skills. A sense of hopelessness. Apathy. Billionaire brainwashing. The list goes on. The strange thing is, conservatives want to go back to the way things were. For them that means when women had to go to back alleys to get abortions, when gays were stoned, when blacks weren’t allowed to vote. For me it means when people didn’t justify these ridiculous notions, but instead just said, “No!”

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      3 months ago

      It’s wild that Trump has done things far worse than watergate, and still got the nomination.

      • Angry_Autist (he/him)@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        It’s not wild, it’s the GOP plan since Nixon got nabbed.

        Drumpf just happened to have that crazy crowd draw, so they yoked their hopes that he would be the first king of America, and disregarded everything else to forward that goal.

        Cheetolini could eat a baby live on national television and his numbers would barely dip.

        • barsquid@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          I don’t think they took him willingly, since he is a narcissistic moron. I think they were stuck with him when he managed to win over the far right radicals they have been grooming for decades. He is a racist schoolyard bully making their enemies angry, that’s all they care about.

      • Professorozone@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        It is. The world is stranger than I could possibly ever have imagined. Sometimes I play a thought game. What if I had to explain this to, an alien.

        “Yes, this is how it works. Are you going to destroy us now? Yeah, we probably deserve this.”

        • shalafi@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          My game is explaining this to my dad who died in the mid-80s. Cannot even summon words.

    • lurch (he/him)@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      conservatives aren’t conservative any more. they are radically backwards. the things they want are so far back, they don’t even want democracy any more. i don’t really have a say in that, but maybe the time has come to stop calling them conservative.

      • kautau@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Yeah there was a long time ago when conservatives voted to protect national parks. These aren’t those times

      • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Conservatives are exactly the same as they have always been. It’s just that conservatives define their priorities and their values and priorities around their identity, and that means their values and priorities shift with whatever is best for the conservative at the time. There are no universally conservative values, just the generic resistance to change things conservatives like. When a conservative benefits from a strong federal government, they support it. When a conservative benefits from abortion, they support it. When a conservative is a minority, or gay, or a woman, they support equalish rights for themselves. It’s narcissism wearing the cloak of stoic preservation of their “heritage,” and it’s always paper-thin.

        This also means anyone opposing the conservative is not a member of the self, but a member of the other. The other is evil, because they are outside of the self. Anything the other does in opposition to the self is evil. An other could save a busload of nuns and kittens, and the conservative would complain about the traffic caused by the other. Anything the self does in support of the self is good. Lying, cheating, stealing, killing, raping, everything is on the table if it can be justified in support or defense of the self. From the outside of the self, it looks like hypocrisy, but it’s really not, because the conservative never truly holds an opinion. They just say what they need to say to win.

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        I’m conservative vs. most of lemmy and damned if I’ll vote anything but straight D right down to dogcatcher. I wouldn’t vote for an R even if I liked them! The message must be sent. Even if it’s a loss, your vote ends up as a percentage on a spreadsheet. It is still seen.

        • Naz@sh.itjust.works
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          3 months ago

          That’s a hell of a vacuous argument. Would you rather get seen outside of a window or let into the store?

          Nobody gives a shit about the non-voting numbers or third party ballots, if anything, their response is negative, not positive: They claim people aren’t exercising their right to vote, or that someone has “spoiled the election”.

          Meanwhile, those aligned to parties are forming orderly queues and voting consistently.

          Which strategy do you think is more effective, from a political science and historical perspective?

        • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          3 months ago

          i really wish more conservatives would accept this, or at the very least not back trump even a little bit, the dude who literally tried to overthrow the election, they throw so much bullshit at dems and dem controlled cities, but have literally no evidence other than “BUT BUT BLM” and “well, they’re taxes are higher” which is literally meaningless.

        • bradorsomething@ttrpg.network
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          3 months ago

          I know, as a conservative I get everything I asked for in the 1990’s by voting mainstream Democrat now. The parties can change all they want, I vote my views.

    • Curious Canid@lemmy.ca
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      3 months ago

      The right wing has been actively working to undermine our educational system since the early 80’s. A poorly educated populace, particularly one without critical thinking skills, is much easier to manipulate. After four decades of underfunding, restrictive policies, and anti-intellectual propaganda, those efforts are really paying off.

      Newt Gingrich and his co-conspirators have been waging war against the people of this country since Reagan was elected. And they are now dangerously close to winning that war.

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        I don’t think the attack on education was a long-term manipulation thing. Rather, it evolved from the question, “Why are all these educated people turning into liberals?!”

        That question demands an answer. They can hardly let the appearance that they’re dumb stand! So guys like Limbaugh started attacking “ivory tower liberals”. That resonated, they rolled with it. Then the Christians saw the opportunity, got their filthy fingers into the cracks, started undermining public education in favor of their own.