I’ve seen around 3 occasions of that this week, altho I have never seen anything like it before.
if I remember correctly they were:
- smack talking a mod (FlyingSquid) for saying not to report the same comment twice, when they were different comments, and the report was spam
- someone comparing .world with .ml in politics (as in there was a comment saying "this post will be overrun with .ml people, and then a comment going “but you are from .world”) (Maybe Im part of the problem? I have been called out for being a fascist because I questioned the “puching nazis” theme)
- one more which I can’t remember.
Anyways, what is all that about? Are people really starting to hate on 50% of the lemmy population because of their instance?
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lemmyworld in many ways is still just reddit. don’t get me wrong, I’ve talked to plenty of cool people on there before. but it is the biggest instance that ballooned after the API controversy and a lot of them seem to have just brought Reddit to the fediverse with them. I have no issues with any mods there, I’ve not really seen them at all. they did defed a community from my instance though so that’s pretty lame of them.
I beg to differ: even Reddit these days is little like Reddit, as it was just prior to the protests. Reddit f-ing died, and Lemmy.World is nothing like that shithole, especially what’s left nowadays with bots copying bots speaking to bots, allowing humans to simply scroll forever.
To any extent that it is like the Reddit of old though, yeah it’s just bc it’s so big. It was guaranteed that some instance would become that, bc people are people - at least here, not like AI-Reddit. 🤡
t’s just bc it’s so big
It’s not the World is big…
It’s just everyone else is so small.
Like in the grand scheme of the fediverse we’re all tiny. But of the “reddit clone” instances it might be bigger than everyone else put together even.
I went over to your instance and checked, and yeah, it’s a reddit clone interface too
The structure makes all of us “like reddit” because reddit has always had a shit ton of different small subs with vastly different vibes. A decade ago there was some sub on Reddit that had the exact same vibe your instance has today. That’s just how big reddit was.
Federation just means no one group of admins can seize control, even if World went to shit tomorrow, everyone would just bounce. I have zero “loyalty” to my instance, if it starts to suck I’m out.
That’s the point of this whole thing.
I just counted some of this in another comment here on this thread “they” being Lemmy.world:
they are definitely the largest by a wide margin! According to https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list, they have >5-fold active users than anyone else. I presume that’s monthly. The next largest instance, is lemmynsfw.com, followed by Lemm.ee, sh.itjust.works, lemmy.ml, etc. but each of those with 2-3k users compared to lemmy.world’s 17.2k. So the latter is bigger than many others (if not quite all of them) combined.
Also, due to how “packets” of data are sent, many smaller instances (like Aussie.zone) have like 7-day delays getting all the data from Lemmy.world, sent at a rate of no more than one action per second (a future Lemmy software update should help with this substantially). I’m not kidding about any of this btw - see e.g. discussion at https://feddit.org/post/3524876.
Edit: I just realized I didn’t respond to your "reddit clone” part. Honestly, unless you start talking like Mbin or Piefed or something, that’s just Lemmy. I cannot really think of a single counterexample, not really - we all are on “link aggregators”, and most of us further are on “general purpose” ones. For that one I can at least think of several counterexamples: as you mentioned, some instances such as programming.dev, StarTrek.website, mander.xyz, aussie.zone, lemmy.ca - all those have a “theme”, but those too still allow general purpose usage, and still are forum-like. Then again, they can each have multiple communities, like mander.xyz is science but there are many individual communities underneath that heading. Which is a bit different from Reddit, having only just “subs”?
Also, people on mander.xyz could block everyone from let’s say lemmy.ml and/or lemmy.world, if they wanted to. Reddit definitely did not allow that - if you wanted to make a block list, then you had to do it the old fashioned way, one by one!:-)
Not even close.
someone comparing .world with .ml in politics
Everyone to the left of me is a psychotic delusion America-hating Tankie.
I’m a rational, centrist clear-eyed moderate making fact-based decisions using my extensive expertise on the subject matter.
Everyone to the right of me is a Russian bot or a troll.
Here’s a clue : try posting something in support of Jews or Israel on either .ml or .world, and you’ll see the two user bases are exactly the same type of antisemitic tankie trash, no discernible difference whatever
I mean people usually don’t like when you support Nazis. That doesn’t have anything to do with being a tankie.
By supporting Israel, you are not supporting Jews. Israel, being a settler colonial ethnostate whose national project requires the conquest and ethnic cleansing of territory, cannot be a safe place for Jewish people.
Associating Jewish people with the genocidal actions of Israel is antisemitic as fuck.
Israel stands against Jewish values and Jewish identity. Supporting Jews means opposing Israel.
I don’t find any issues on .world. Yeah some people say dumb stuff, but that’s just the world isn’t it? I am sure there are others who think the same of me. It’s whatever, some people getting mad at .world are just mad they’re not in an echo chamber.
But other people complaining about trolls are right, there’s just no place for that. Report, block and move on. It’s not your job to educate anyone.
Because it’s bad.
Not surprised this is coming from an ml user one bit
Easy, because it’s often home to some extreme and often bizarre opinions. It often makes Reddit seem civil and intellectual.
In the last month alone, I’ve seen:
- Downvotes for suggesting that if you were to ask Big Tech to split, they’ll probably just split in a way that keeps them aligned, while cutting unprofitable chunks out.
- Downvotes for suggesting that TikTok shouldn’t be banned for being “stupid”, given that most social media is stupid, and people often said that about the shit that many of us grew up with.
- Just endless nonsense about how you cannot print with Windows, like at all, while Linux (never stating a distro) “just works”. It’s clear that so many people in the tech community on lemmy.world haven’t used Windows for years.
- Crap about LLM’s and how providers like OpenAI are “dumb”, despite the fact that many use grounding and expert systems to guide towards correctness (literally what I work on in my job).
- Being so US-centric AND contrarian that you regularly see posts around how “Europe is so much better for this”, when Europe is a fucking continent with separate countries and their own laws/customs.
- Posts about how we can get “normies” to use Lemmy
None of the above would happen on Reddit. They’re all signs of communities that are detached from reality, so much so that on Mastodon there are several posts from people that have called Lemmy (basically meaning the “main” instance) out as being toxic and unfriendly compared to other fediverse offerings.
Thank you for the detailed answer
I disagree with your statement about not seeing this type of behaviour on Reddit and it appearing civil and intellectual comparison.
I used Reddit for around 15 years, and had never seen the above. Sure, it was toxic in other ways, but Lemmy in 2024 is basically 2004 Slashdot - just replace Bush with Trump, and it’s basically the same shit about how Microsoft is evil, anyone that doesn’t use Linux is a moron, and arguing about Star Trek.
Based, as the youngsters says.
Sure, it was toxic in other ways, but Lemmy in 2024 is basically 2004 Slashdot - just replace Bush with Trump
Lmao I was there, can confirm
The bickering about software platforms is unchanged and people will jump down your throat for voicing an independent thought.
I remember liberals getting just as mad for naysaying Kerry as they do Biden now.
There’s a “civility” rule that frowns upon accurately identifying given users as belonging to certain groups
That stache though…
What’s wrong with punching nazis?
Not a god damned thing!
It doesn’t happen enough?
Was expecting this comment, I used to be a pacifist, after asking why people would* punch nazis in asklemmy, I read a few books they reccomended and I changed my mind.
tldr: nothing.
edit: * if it is morally correct
That’s a pretty big fucking asterisk. That makes all the difference in the world.
yeah lol, I kinda mean both at the same time so ill leave it like that.
It doesn’t do as much damage as biting them
The instance structure conveniently groups people together and labels them. Stereotyping, bias and tribalism are the natural result.
I want you all to know that I’m happy you’re here, cis het white male frat boy from old wealth with an ivy league education or a neorospicy gay trans Jewish anarcho-communist and everything else out there.
While I won’t judge you on your instance, I will judge you on your ability to be a good neighbor. I’m always glad to see humility, kindness, empathy, comradery, etc. on display.
“We must therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate intolerance”
Karl Popper
I miss Kbin.social
Come on over to fedia.io. It’s like kbin.social but works.
I’m on fedia.io, but I still miss kbin.social. :/
I miss myspace. But then I started thinking about it. If MySpace came back, 100% exactly as it was in 2006, I don’t think I could use it. Too many privacy concerns in the modern day.
So I DO miss MySpace, but I guess I also miss the innocence of 2006’s lack of privacy concerns too.
I hate to admit it, but I don’t. Even before it entered the purgatory it’s stuck in at the moment, there was a severe spam and bot problem in the largely abandoned local magazines.
If it came back now, something would have to be done about that, and though I have been previously, I’m not up for volunteering to do it.
The only real loss here is the (lack of) continued development of the Kbin software. Mbin might be a descendent, even the heir apparent, but it’s not the original.
mbin: 👁️👄👁️
Same. Mastodon was nice to shit post to when Lemmy dried up.
I’d say the biggest criticism is that it’s the largest instance, and is also a “general purpose” instance, which sort of takes away from the main goal of the fediverse. When 90% of content comes from one instance, it opposes the goal of decentralization.
I chose lemdro.id because it’s nice and fast, the admins are very good, and its main topic is around technology/software which I like
Thank you for your work on Photon!
I don’t think the existence of large instances is in itself strictly antithetical to decentralization. The network effect makes them inevitable.
The power in the fediverse is everyone has a standard toolset to interact with the entire fediverse. Most people won’t, and that’s okay. The important thing is that, should larger communities become too oppresive as they gentrify, replacing them is a cheap decision, as you and everyone like-minded with you can squad up and leave at any time and lose nothing as the standard tooling of the platform facilitates that migration. You have mobility in the fediverse, and that permits choice to those who seek it.
This will stop being true once the larger instances start augmenting their experiences with proprietary nonsense. Features that only work there, that you can invest into and become dependant on, that you’d have to give up if you leave.
The day that happens will be the day that chunk of the Fediverse dies. Or, well, it won’t die, it will probably flourish and do very well. But it won’t be the Fediverse anymore. It will just be another knee-high-fence-gated community, that happens to run on Fediverse tech.
I’m on db0 and we have lots of subs aren’t on .world. So it possible but you are right in general.
lol imagine comparing .ml to Reddit.world
juggles kittens
Meow meow meow meow meow meow <----- That’s the kittens meowing, because they’re having a such a good time, but it’s still kind of scary! But it’s October season! It’s spooky scary time!!!
My biggest problem with .world is that people will just make up whatever they want about the out-group and everyone just believes it without question and with no interest in examining the
evidence.It’s a toxic element of the site’s culture that encourages circle-jerking and the automatic dismissal of opposing viewpoints while making intelligent and informed discussion impossible.The moderation is also pretty heavy-handed with censorship and things get removed for “misinformation” pretty frequently just because the mods disagree with it. You don’t have to go very far back in the modlog right now to find removed posts from Cowbee and Alcoholicorn, despite both backing up their arguments with published books from respectable authors. It’s best to avoid engaging with the mods at all, I got banned from World News because a mod couldn’t defend their position so they just banned me. There’s a pretty clear bias towards NATO and the US.
But like I said my main issue is the first point, and I’ll stop judging .worlders when I start to see people actually ask for evidence when someone says, “I saw a bunch of tankies eating kittens” instead of just blindly accepting it as fact because it’s about an out-group.
You literally just made up a strawman argument, which you then immediately cited as “evidence”?
Mods are busy. If this is what you tend to do, I don’t blame them one bit for not wanting to volunteer their unpaid time to deal with it - for the same reason I now understand better why some women would prefer the bear.
Now, please downvote me, you know you want to… just this once, I want you to know what it’s like to do something with the recipient’s consent.
for the same reason I now understand better why some women would prefer the bear.
Now, please downvote me, you know you want to… just this once, I want you to know what it’s like to do something with the recipient’s consent.
Lmao wtf are you talking about? Am I violating someone’s consent by holding beliefs they disagree with? Completely unhinged.
out-group
Can it be an out-group and also have totalitarian control of the platform structure?
These people made Lemmy. Sorry if their numbers are lower than average. I guess next time around they can make a no libruls allowid sign or something so the other 98% of humans know not to ruin their great fun.
totalitarian control
Lmao y’all are wild. Why are you on a platform where people you don’t like have, “totalitarian control” over the structure? Is it, perhaps, because they used this “totalitarian control” to create a structure that was decentralized and allowed communities to form that operated on different rules and different views? Doesn’t sound very totalitarian if you ask me.
Where’s that Parenti quote? Oh, found it! Evergreen quote:
"During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum."
-Michael Parenti, Blackshirts and Reds
