Asking as there has been a few comments mentioning this with the new [email protected] taking over [email protected]
[email protected] for additional context on those recent events if you are interested
Also, an older post for more context on how lemmy.ml is managed: https://lemmy.world/post/16211417
Curious to hear other thoughts about this, as I’m trying to keep [email protected] active, but might suggest to move it elsewhere if a lot of people prefer not to interact with lemmy.ml communities
If the conversation is civil I’ll comment occasionally, but i don’t think I’d care if my instance defederated from them. They’re where a lot of tech related conversations are, sadly.
Tbh the bigger instances need to bite the bullet and defederate from .ml. There are alternatives to all the good comms on .ml, they just aren’t as active. Defederating would move a lot of users onto the alternatives and get some control back from the terrible .ml mods and admins.
Banning people from multiple completely unrelated comms for something that happened in one comm is bullshit and they abuse the hell out of that. I generally try not to participate in any .ml comm because of that.
But a lot of users on a lot of instances do not want to defederate, and thereby lose their communities that they want to receive content from, e.g. [email protected]. First such communities need to be migrated, or at least new alternatives made, and then the barrier to walking away will be lower. Progress is being made though, even if only slowly:-).
Yes. I’ve had personal experience, many times, of over the top censorship and bans based on opposing views expressed in a mature and rational way. Once or twice is fine, but I’ve seen it more there than my entire combined experience online, it’s crazy and happens to often to ignore.
I’ve also seen a crazy amount of trolling there and it seems the trolls are protected through crazy censorship of anyone calling them out. It’s just not worth the aggravation.
Fwiw, lemmy.cafe defederated from lemmy.ml, and is even running a 0.19.6 beta codebase so even if there’s only a single admin they seem really on the ball.
Tesseract also has implemented a way to ban all users from lemmy.ml.
And PieFed allows personal bans on any custom instance you choose. Plus it has “categories” of communities so that you don’t have to keep searching on All, though you can do that too if you want. It seems really polished these days! Not 100% - e.g. you can’t easily search for a user in the same form as a keyword - but it looks extremely usable, so I am switching to it today.
Meanwhile, on Lemmy we were promised that 0.19.3 would allow user blocking of instances, which turned out to be not quite true, and when your instance upgrades from that to 0.19.6 when it comes out (most other instances, like mine, are already running 0.19.5), the protections that it offers will be further rolled back - e.g. on 0.19.3 I did not receive notifications from those users, whereas now on 0.19.5 I do.
And maybe some apps allow blocking of an instance, I dunno about that aspect.
Lemmy.ml was one of the first instances in the Fediverse… but that doesn’t mean that we should be forced to listen to the stuff spewing forth from it unless we choose that for ourselves, especially in the next few months as the trolls go into overdrive due to the ongoing USA election (and likely subsequent “constitutional crisis” event).
Anyway, I just wanted you to know that there are options! Not many, but they do exist!:-)
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Yes. I find their gaming-chair leftism and obnoxious preachiness annoying enough to just avoid. My blocklist is filled with .ml users, and none of those were because of any political positions. It’s because they were annoying, whinging twats.
It’s because they were annoying, whinging twats.
Not even whinging, screaming.
I’ve blocked the instance quite a while ago. In the beginning I was just blocking communities, but the users spill everywhere unless you go nuclear.
Thanks for this info, I didn’t realize you could block an entire instance.
You can’t really. I mean you can block an instance, but that only hides the communities that are on it - you’ll still see the users. The only way I know how to ditch the users, besides blocking each one individually, would be to make a new account on either dubvee.org or Lemmy.cafe where all 3 of the big 3 are completely defederated. Think of those instances as troll-blockers, working hard to keep the Fediverse pleasant to converse in:-).
I think it’s generally best to host communities on politically neutral instances
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What i mean is instances that aren’t catered to a political ideology regardless of the political leaning of it’s users. Like dbzer0, lemm.ee or sh.itjust.works.
dbzer0 is anarchist though.
They don’t seem to get into friction over it. I’ve never heard of @[email protected] or mods on their communities banning people for being statists. Granted, I don’t presently subscribe to any communities there, but I haven’t seen a stream of comments complaining about interactions with them.
I mean, it probably wouldn’t be my first place to stick a non-piracy related community if I were starting one, but I also wouldn’t avoid existing communities there.
Previously no. Now yes. Apparently got banned for inciting ‘peril’ against my own race because tankies don’t know the difference between ethnically Chinese and of Chinese nationality, and apparently you can’t criticize china in the forums. Throw in a few abusive individuals from the same instance shooting off the mouth and I pretty much said fuck it, I’m out.
I block subs and users and that usually takes care of 99% of the bullshit
Do you do it individually, or use like an app or something? Bc the Lemmy instance block does very little - only blocking communities but not users from that instance.
PieFed btw allows user blocking of any custom instance you want though:-) - I just switched to it today and think I am going to be happier here. It’s not quite as polished as Lemmy, but on the other hand I don’t see true user-level blocking ever being added to Lemmy no matter how long the wait. So I decided that I was tired of wading through the garbage rooting for treasure, and just decided to block it all.
I’m on boost so maybe its just client side. Tbh i don’t know much about how lemmy functions under the hood. It’s been fun tho
Yeah it’s probably client-side. Boost… that’s good to know, thanks!:-)
Yes, except a few selected communities I completely avoid interacting with lemmy.ml
So that should be a “no” really :)
For me it’s a no, but looking at my subscribed communities, i don’t have all that many ml communities in there tbh.
The ones that i like best and that don’t have a better alternative elsewhere are [email protected] and [email protected] and i guess the ones about lemmy itself and jerboa.
The way they seem to be banning people is worrying to me, the ml users i generally don’t have a problem with, but i’m avoiding politics.
For me it’s FOSS og communities like [email protected] or [email protected] that don’t have alternatives on other instances neither
And that’s completely understandable
No, because its nonsense tribalism. I haven’t seen any actual consistency in nonsense takes between any particular instances, with only a couple of extreme examples (explodingheads, grad, yddrasil, etc) that are already blocked or dehosted. ML has more socialists, because lemmy was a little leftist community project at first and it’s one of the oldest and biggest instances. Big instances also have a lot of idiots. World has a reputation for a lot of idiots, because it’s by far the biggest instance. That doesn’t mean everyone, or even most people, are idiots that are on the instance.
I’m only an idiot when I fully intend to be one.
It’s full of Tankies spewing disinformation and ban you for moderate stances. Take their news community for example.
Before I completely defederated from them, their “news” communities were the first ones I ever had to administratively remove/hide because it was nothing but propaganda and bad faith posts.
Omg you defederated from them - that’s amazing! I’ve been going around saying that lemmy.cafe is the only instance I’ve ever even heard of that has done so, but now I can add dubvee.org to that list as well.
Damn, you keep impressing the hell out of me!:-P Every time I dig deeper, there’s always another thing to like below that!:-)
Lol, thanks. I just try to curate the best experience as I can for my instance.
Re: Defederation
Lolz so true!!:-)
Take their news community for example.
No thank you, I would pay to avoid that actually! 😆
When the admins spend more time banning people for speaking against fascist russia than developing lemmy it doesn’t matter what the userbase is like. And not wanting to participate in an instance where the admins religiously scan every comment for wrongthink is pretty reasonable and not tribalism.
I don’t have anything against .ml users as a whole. As you say, every instance has its bad apples.
But .ml has the most hostile and heavy-handed admins of any instance I know of. It makes it impossible to have real conversations because talking about certain topics will get you instantly banned from the whole instance. It’s not about socialism either. In fact that’s part of the problem—I’m a leftist myself who would like to discuss leftism there and I used to enjoy doing so, but at this point that’s only possible if you follow the admin’s ideological beliefs on practically everything to a tee. It’s a toxic environment where real conversations can’t take place.
This is the biggest flaw with Lemmy at the moment.
I think I’m on my 4th account . Mods tend to block me befor I block them, because I don’t adhere to tribal rules.
I’m probably anarchist / socialist politically but I call out bullshit when I see it. People don’t like that.
Ignoring reality doesn’t make it less true. Certain groups of people or environments are worse than others, acting like that isn’t reality is pretty naive.
If there was a pro slavery, racist group would you say they deserve to be respected, of course not. There is a line, we just disagree on where it is. And calling that disagreement tribalism is simply trying to hand wave away valid criticism.
I block all .ml communities when I see them pop up. I’m somewhere between 200-300 blocked communities at the moment (not exclusively .ml though).
Nope.
Yes!
That instance just has a stink on it.
I’m sure there’s some normal users or communities bit there’s a lot who are just plain unpleasant to interact with.
I have the instance blocked. Nice thing about Lemmy, you can vote with your attention. When toxic bubbles pop up, you can ignore them en masse. Any collateral blocking doesn’t bother me. [insert Nazi party meme]
What’s wrong with lemmy.ml?
US Democrat members get upset that the instance with 1600 users doesn’t agree with their opinions
There they are!!!
Literally everyone else: “It’s bad to arbitrarily arrest someone for criticising corruption and send them and their family to labour camps.”
Tankies: “That’s just, your opinion, man.”
This is literally it. I hear so much hate towards .ml that I find it hard dtobelieve they are fanatics lol
Found the alt
Found the fanatic. Lol
I found this in like 30 seconds yesterday: https://lemmy.ml/post/21605430.
Not that the content isn’t true, mind you, but it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to constantly make fun of capitalism and the USA, then wonder why people in capitalist nations and especially the USA don’t want to come hang out there. (Hey, only we can say the bad stuff about ourselves, ya’know!?:-P)
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As someone on .ml I really don’t think it’s that bad. Definitely left, and generally pro-China, but not too extreme imo. Hexbear is pretty bad. I’m a socialist and I disagree with a lot of the stuff there. But .ml is very much not a true “tankie” instance, in my opinion.
A lot of the issues people have with .ml are the practices of the admins.
Though also when hexbear.net was defederated from so many instances, a lot of those users switched to using their Lemmy.ml alts - many are quite open about this fact - and just continued posting as they had done previously, despite that style being the very reason why hexbear.net had been defederated from.
And when more instances - like lemmy.cafe - start defederating from Lemmy.ml, then those users will surely switch to alts on something like lemmy.world or Lemm.ee that are generally considered too large to be defederated from.
A lot of innocent users get caught up in the cross hairs of this fight between tankies vs. anti-tankies. People using your instance as a platform to attack (e.g. brigade and otherwise spew forth toxicity) other instances, yet possibly behaving normally else wise inside the instance itself.
Also, whether something is “extreme” or not depends on someone’s background context, and I would definitely say that the content on lemmy.ml is considered somewhat extreme for someone on America. Even/especially those who even consider themselves as “liberal”, not realizing yet what little that means on the international stage. The content is nowhere close to being as extreme as that from lemmygrad.ml or hexbear.net, but far more so than e.g. Reddit or Mastodon.
So I hope I have adequately conveyed that it’s not your fault in any way, you also expanding to mean all the other innocent users on lemmy.ml, but I wanted to convey that yes, I would defederate myself from your instance in a heartbeat if given half the chance. Possibly you won’t even mind:-), but you seemed interested, so I hope I helped by writing all this out.
Oh yeah, and it makes total sense. The brigading, insofar as it happens, really shouldn’t. But also, as someone who espouses left wing views, I always want to give critical support to left spaces - even if they’re imperfect. And .ml and even hexbear have a lot of valuable discourse - I comment on hexbear threads regularly with less radical points of view than their users often have, and I get good responses and engagement usually because I’m good faith.
I thought I was left-wing myself, then realized that I may as well be a right-wing nut compared to global standards!:-D
But it takes time for people to learn and change. Mainstream people in the USA may still have valuable contributions to make here, like funny cartoons for us all to laugh at, and thus I decry how they are pushed away due to the extremist content on the Fediverse.
After watching Innuendo Studios’ The Alt Right Playbook, I just cannot listen to hexbears anymore. Those attempts to bully people in just about every conversation with “tactics” other than relying on the logical truths of the issues themselves just really turns me away.
Be careful - your circumstances surely differ from mine, with like your family and job and such - but I note that they are far more likely to change you than the reverse. It’s just how that works.
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Sigh… yup. Much of that has been traced back and shown to not have originated from inside the USA, but it does not matter how it started bc it’s endemic now. And regardless of the rhetoric the news itself is pretty violent, with all the reporting of mass shootings - you know, bc they actually happened, except most of the time the for-profit news media doesn’t bother anymore, and instead prefers to sell something sexier than all the needless deaths of children.
But you can’t wake someone up if they refuse to come into the door in the first place - that is what I meant about labeling content to make it more acceptable to a mainstream audience, so as to boost subscriber counts and thereby increase the overall health of the Fediverse. Being okay with stagnation seems unwise to me, bc it predicates a fall.
This succinctly covers my view on it as well. I think it’ll be more of a problem a few years down the road as statist admin culture begins to influence the mods of more communities there, but for now I treat it on an community-by-community, user-by-user basis. I wouldn’t be surprised if a majority of community leaders and users in general that went to lemmy.ml simply did because it was one of the larger instances last year and didn’t think much more of it than that.
If I have a choice, though, I’ll still try to grow a community on one of the smaller instances simply because it’s still one of the largest ones, and that’s better for the health of the network.
