Technically it’s for any printer capable of printing a firearm or the components of a firearm, which is…. every printer. What a bafflingly stupid proposal. If you’re in NY, please call your reps and tell them to oppose this bill.
Keep in mind that this is a state that bans nunchuks.Never mind, NY banned nunchuks in 1974 but then in 2018 a federal court decided that New Yorkers have a 2nd amendment right to nunchuks.
Maybe there’s a constitutional right to keep and bear 3D printers too? If your life is in danger, you can use the concealed printer you’re carrying to make a gun and then defend yourself with that gun.
the right to bear nunchuks is either something bears would want or something animal rights activists would be strongly against
Don’t worry, my state considers throwing stars to be “assault weapons” now and their sale and possession is banned. There’s still stupidity abound if you care to look hard enough.
their sale and possession is banned
How will I assassinate the Shogun now?!
You’ll have to use your blowgun. Those are still unregulated.
You jest but automated blowguns with face recognition could be deadly and nearly impossible to spot!
Way ahead of you. Ever load a thumbtack into a piece of 5/16" brake line and give it a puff with your air compressor?
Don’t ask me how but the fuckers remain straight in flight. They’re cylindrical enough that you could surely make such an apparatus magazine fed.
If you have the compressor, wouldn’t it be easier to just use a nail gun with the sensor on the tip disabled?
Not much range on a nailgun. The nails tumble in flight in quite a short distance.
- FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, “THREE-DIMENSIONAL PRINTER” MEANS A COMPUTER OR COMPUTER-DRIVEN MACHINE OR DEVICE CAPABLE OF PRODUCING A THREE-DIMENSIONAL OBJECT FROM A DIGITAL MODEL
Well, that’s a broad definition. I guess to whomever wrote that, a CNC mill is also a 3d printer.
It’s not like inkjets produce 2 dimensional ink. I’d love to see someone argue in court that it’s technically impossible to create a non 3d printer
I’m pretty sure there are actual industrial multicolor 3d printers that use an inkjet design
Well achtually…To be pedantic,
A 3D consumer grade printer is not a true 3D tool since it can only move on 2 axis simultaneously. If you watch your printer closely, as it finishes it’s path around the xy plane, there is a tiny halt as it changes active plane from the xy plane to xz plane, lifts the nozzle, then flips the active back to the xy to go along it’s merry way again to lay down the new layer. And no, the hot new scarf joint is still a single plane movement. Sometimes such machines are incorrectly referred to as 2 1/2 axis because they aren’t true 3 axis.
Source: I’m an old retired toolmaker. Trust me Bro.
There is vase mode, which lifts the Z axis gradually while printing. This creates one continuous extrusion for the whole print.
That still isn’t a true 3D move.
How so? It literally moves in 3 dimensions at the same time.
A CNC mill seems much more capable of manufacturing firearms than some 300 buck printer.
Sure if you want a safe, durable, powerful firearm. Problem is, a new 3 axis machining center will cost over $50,000US, requires 3phase power, a large air compressor, specialized knowledge, tools, and skills far beyond a Bambu A1 combo. And running expenses are more than you make in a day. Plus they weight 10,000lbs/4500kg.
It’s not bloody likely you are going to get one into your 3rd floor apartment. Let alone find and outlet to plug into.
Not really.
There are gun parts that just can’t be printed in plastic (reliably. There are proof of concept “all plastic except the firing pin” guns). But… because of how lobbyists tainted what few gun control laws we have, most of what makes a gun a gun CAN be printed and the rest can be bought as after market parts. That is why an incredibly common “ghost gun” is basically “print this and then go buy this replacement barrel and this baggy of parts to repair a glock”.
Whereas a mill is great for those metal parts and you can theoretically mill an entire gun, it isn’t going to be a gun you “want” to use and, odds are, you are going to need a lot more technical skills. And for stuff like “ghost guns” and the bootleg mods used in stuff like The Troubles? A 3d printer is MUCH more accessible and MUCH easier to make.
The reality is that neither is going to be effective in the case of a militia/uprising scenario (yes, you can print an AR-15 and it isn’t THAT hard to reinforce the plastic to handle intermediate rounds. No, you can’t print a hellfire missile or a predator drone or a tank). And for the purposes of a school shooting? Why print a gun when you can just grab daddy’s glock out of his nightstand or junk drawer?
I’ll also add on the reason why additive manufacturing is so loved by Industry. Milling is subtractive. You get a piece of stock and you cut it until it is the part you want. If you can guarantee said piece of stock is approximately the same dimensions every time, you can automate that. But getting a piece to those dimensions has a significant cost. 3d printing? As long as you clear out the build plate and sort of control the environment, it is the same operations every single time.
So to 3d print a glock? You go to one of the naughty sites, get the STL, make a few tweaks to your slicer, and start it (old Vice actually did a really good video on this). After that you wait until it is done, remove the supports, file the ever loving hell out of it, and you are ready to go blasting.
To mill a glock? You go to one of the naught sites and get the gcode. You then adjust that gcode to fit the dimensions of your piece of stock (or put in the time to make your piece of stock the dimensions the gcode is expecting…). You then do one process, stop it, move and remount the part precisely to expose the correct surfaces, and do the next process. And so forth.
“Not really”
Yes, really. If you print something out of plastic and have to go out and buy a barrel and other hardware to put in it, you might as well just mold it out of paper mache.
A CNC can make a gun from start to finish that you wouldn’t be worried about blowing your fingers off when you pulled the trigger, without adding outside hardware to.
It’s not like you’re smelting steel at home. Running a CNC machine requires a smidge more infrastructure than a 3D printer.
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You clearly didn’t read anything I said after that first line but this is just too fun:
A CNC can make a gun from start to finish that you wouldn’t be worried about blowing your fingers off when you pulled the trigger, without adding outside hardware to.
Mostly tells me you have no idea what is inside of a firearm outside of “magic”.
Over simplifying, but modern firearms generally consist of
- A frame: This is usually a mix of plastic and metal for comfort, weight, and heat dissipation reasons. But there is nothing saying you can’t have an all metal frame. Some parts will receive load, some parts are purely cosmetic/ergonomic. This is demonstrably not a problem for either 3d printer or mill.
- Lots of pins and levers: These are the mechanisms that actually make the gun go bang when you pull the trigger. And, depending on how spicy you want to get, continue to go bang while you hold down the trigger. Again, some parts are stressed, some aren’t. There are ways to do all plastic that should last at least a few hundred rounds. The issue is more one of tolerances. Getting a 3d printer to be able to print with that level of precision is more work than people want to put in. Similarly, getting a mill capable of that level of precision is also a mother (Adam Savage of Will Smith’s Tested fame has a lot of videos where he is basically tackling this challenge for different projects). But also? These are the parts that “wear out” and are completely uncontrolled and can be bought online trivially. So why manufacture this yourself in the first place?
- Springs. Good fricking luck milling your own springs with the required properties. Also good fricking luck printing your own springs. That said, I actually watched a REALLY cool video where someone proof of concept made a gun out of 3d printable leaf springs and while the guy doing it was a complete and utter dipshit, it was a work of engineering beauty that you couldn’t pay me enough to hold in my hand… But, again, these are trivially easy to buy online so why bother?
- The last major part in this oversimplified breakdown is the barrel (and how you seal it but I am just going to include that here). These are the parts that experience the most forces and heat when the gun is fired since that is the part where the bang happens. Everything else you can probably get away with some cheap mild steel. That? You need some good stuff otherwise you are going to learn just how weak that cheap stock was. You CAN mill chrome moly and the like but that is a much bigger challenge than cutting through cheap steel like it is butter and amplifies all of the above tolerance issues. I will outright say that you can’t print this in plastic even though I have seen in person demonstrations of proof of concepts of that.
And the cheap steel problem? Go look up pictures of the “custom” guns used in conflicts like The Troubles. A lot have cracked or split barrels and the like because of that exact issue.
Which, like I said in the comment you refused to read, is why you just buy the hard parts online or in cash at your local gun store (… might need to go to a specialty shop instead of a Walmart). Because they are not controlled since they generally need to get replaced eventually anyway.
At which point? Mills and Printers both work great. It is just that the former needs a lot more machinist skill to be done. Whereas the latter is just downloading an STL.
Just because this topic really intrigues the engineer in me:
Even if you are REALLY anti-gun (moreso in the sense of absolutely zero meaningful gun control laws that don’t predominantly target minorities and lower income folk) but can still appreciate an engineering problem:
Vice, back before it was a shithole content farm that talks about how right wing chuds are sticking it to the man, had a REALLY good video where a reporter went to a gathering of 3d printed firearms enthusiasts and even printed their own gun with the help of one of them. There are a lot of uncomfortable parts that kind of felt like fallon tussling the dipshit’s hair back in the day, but it is also one of the very few (easily reached on youtube) videos that show what 3d printing a gun actually is.
inRange TV has a video that doesn’t get too into the making of a 3d printed gun but does show some of the recent advances (and I believe one of the models shown is quite similar to a certain mario brother’s favorite toy…) which is useful from the perspective of how 3d printed parts are coupled to off the shelf parts and so forth.
And while the owner of the channel is a real dipshit and it is explicitly NOT about 3d printed guns (because that would hurt his monetization), Forgotten Weapons did a sponsored video where he turned a common handgun into basically a PDW using a kit. And, in the process of doing that, it really highlights what part of a firearm is the legal and controlled part and what parts can be easily replaced… or purchased in a discount bin. And Forgotten Weapons, in general, is really good at actually disassembling/field stripping firearms to show the inner workings and the engineering. And it is a fun thought process to think through what processes were used to make those parts and what processes could be used to make those parts instead.
I do some amateur gunsmithing. The insides of a bog standard, single-shot 12-gauge blow my mind. As to how the internals work on my S&W Ez? No clue and I wouldn’t dare try a full tear down.
Do you know how many hours I’ve spent hunting springs in my carpet?!
You’ve got it exactly right. If you can print the receiver, you can get every tiny part off eBay.
Pipe guns exist, you can build a device that fires a 12-gauge shell in a decent garage workshop. The fancy bits, like a break action that closes properly or a spring to eject spent shells/cartridges, are where the fiddly springs and such come into play. (Of course you know this, but for the sake of conversation.)
Those homemade submachine guns are properly crazy though.
You could assemble a working pipe shotgun out of hardware store parts without even leaving the hardware store if you were clever enough.
At least they’re not defining it as a COMPUTER DRIVEN MACHINE THAT HAS LENGTH, WIDTH, AND DEPTH.
Anything to avoid having to actually address the systemic poverty and bigotry ingrained in the system that leads to violence…
From what I understand the “problem” as it’s being framed in terms of ghost guns and inner city crime or whatever the buzzword is this year is not hobbyists running off a lower or frame for themselves. None of those guys in the hood and their switches are buying Bambus or building Vorons and suddenly turning into 3D printing gurus – Someone, or several someones more likely, are deliberately mass manufacturing these things for sale to the criminals which is already thoroughly illegal. Find the gun runners and stomp on them. I thought you guys were supposed to have this big scary police force and surveillance apparatus?
California is cracking down hard on ghost guns right now… Its super important in LA. Its gotta be the single most biggest issue they are dealing with right at the very moment.
Ah. So I suppose that means California has successfully solved the skyrocketing cost of living and inflation, drought, rampant homelessness, and uncontrollable wildfires?
What do you mean fire? It’s ghost guns running the show! Lol…not lol. More like WTF?
I’m a hobbyist 3D printer and I can barely get my minis to print half decently, never mind a functional firearm
It’s mostly a bunch of little hood gunsmiths, making them and selling them to customers. It’s literally the gun equivalent of an attic full of weed plants.
How much harder would it be than getting an actual gun?
Road trip to Georgia and back, basically.
Makes total sense
Just FYI, you can’t buy a firearm at a dealer outside of your home state without having it shipped to an FFL holder in your home state. E.g., I can’t drive to Family Firearms in Alabama from Georgia–where i live–to buy a gun. I have to order from them, and then have it shipped to an FFL near me, and then fill out the paperwork in my own state. In states that allow private, p2p sales (which is most of them), you could buy a firearm with cash from an individual, and they’d never do a background check or fill out a 4473.
Thank you for the information. My (incorrect) assumption was the oft-paraded “gun show” loophole.
I think consistent effort is required to erase any misconception about the availability of firearms.
my granny got one in a Walmart parking lot so it can’t be that hard.
Still don’t know how that even happens.Well, maybe that’s your (US&A) problem, not 3d printers ;)
Luigi would have passed a background check.
And didn’t even use his own printer (according to his confession/manifesto)…
was it even printed in new york? I mean im sure someone would never bring one in from jersey.
Everything is legal in New Jersey.
Unexpected Hamilton ❤️
Why do you print like you’re running out of time?
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WTF?
What’s next a background check for breathing? Because, you know breathing is a clear and obvious pre-cursor to criming of all kinds.
No, but you will have to pay for the air
Checks out, seeing as breathing is a precursor in blowguns.
Politicians are such profoundly unserious people.
Gonna require background checks to get plumbing supplies or to go to the hardware store? Cause I can make a gun a hell of a lot easier and quicker with that shit, than I can with a 3d fuckin printer.
It’s those rock tumbler crazies of the world.
Oi. You got a permit to tumble that aluminum foil?
Don’t you dare try it!
Lol that describes my childhood
Did you use chlorates, saltpeter, or potassium permanganate?
None. I combined it with iron oxide. I like chemistry, not explosives
IIRC hardware store employees do pay attention to purchases that look like that and have phone numbers to call for it
Na the hardware store guys are chill
You think those employees are paid enough to care?
Nope! But i bet management cares enough about it (or at least not being “that store that sold a shooter gun parts”) to make it painful if they dont.
You can buy from multiple stores and mix in a bunch of other stuff to make it hard for someone to figure out what you’re building.
Or just go to self checkout
The Home Depot near my house recently went exclusively self checkout. I hate it, makes me consider driving an extra 15 min to go to Menard’s or Lowes.
Embrace, use it as an opportunity to shoplift. Home depot is run by an asshole anyway.
Pfft.
I used to run a hardware store. We saw people assembling parts to build zip guns, potato cannons, pipe bombs, bongs, and other similarly related naughty projects all the time. You want to know what I did about it? I told them to let me know how it turned out.
Some boob from the ATF actually came by and tried to grill me real hard about ammonium nitrate at one point shortly after 9/11, and I had to tell him the same thing over and over again phrased many different ways until he finally got it, which was that we don’t sell any fertilizer other than prepackaged blended consumer products, i.e. we did not sell any pure nitrates to anyone because we could not, because we didn’t bother to carry them. End of discussion.
There was still plenty of crap available on my shelves to make a quite competent bomb if you knew what you were doing. But I didn’t go into detail and I sure as shit wasn’t going to go around teaching anyone.
Luigi had no background to check.
This is pure flail.
Printcrime was not an instruction manual.
Lol, I built a 3d printer with a 3d printer.
You wouldn’t download a 3D Printer!
seriousoly?
The wilson2 with 80/20 aluminum. Not too hard.
Yeah. The Voron printers are a good example
Any engineer worth their salt can do this without a 3d printer. Idiots.
Next up, you’re going to have to register your drill press, lathe, etc.
If you’re european and ask yourself why 3D printed guns are such an issue in the US: It’s not because entire guns are easy to print (or printable at all), It’s because of their idiotic gun laws: in the US, the only controlled part is the receiver or frame, which often enough is made of plastic anyway, while the most important part -the barrel- is freely obtainable.
Germany has a similar law, except that every part of the gun is controlled.
This is second time they trying to pass this bullshit. 2023 https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2023/A8132
Oh don’t worry, there will be a third. And a fourth. And a… Well, more and more until it passes
It only has to pass once
Political hackers.
The people have to be successful every time, but the political hackers have to successful just once.
You can also technically make a gun with generic plumbing supplies or you could finagle one with random garbage and a drill bit.
2 pipes, 1 nail, 1 end cap, 1 12-gauge shell, done.
Yeah, a dude actually made a ton of money during a gun buyback, by making cheap pipe guns. The buyback program had a flat amount as the bare minimum, meant to entice people to turn their firearms in. It was like $200 minimum. He made dozens of $5 single-shot pipe guns, and turned them all in. And since they were technically functioning firearms, the program was forced to pay out.
LOL, and I got downvoted for saying the gun buybacks are stupid. People turn in crappy/broken guns for money to buy a better gun. Hell, I have 3 or 4 I’d ditch. Maybe more if you offered me $200 each.
The windchimes are not what they seem.
Aww. He just died (David Lynch).
Kinda odd and you can see it in my comments, but yesterday I made a Lynch reference.
Then I talk about David Fincher, but since I always mix those two Davids up I was very consciously not typing Lynch later.
That was all before news went public so needless to say he was on my mind a lot of yesterday. Very Lynchian.
“I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange“
Home Depot background checks are next.
You can fuck someone up real good with a 2X4 ( pronounced two be fore ). Yet I haven’t had to pay for a 2x4 ownership license.
You can also really fuck someone up with a big bag of shit…be it actual shit or rocks or concrete or just a bunch of shit from Good will (which could included actual shit). Where do we apply for big bags of shit at the DMB?
and then they use that info to perform a credit check to ensure you’re not a “risk” to let into the store
“Papers, Please”
Background checks for plumbers wrenches next.
May I introduce you to TM 31-210?
THIS IS AMERICA! You can’t post stuff like this outside of a classroom!
You can’t post stuff like this in a classroom… At least in the south
Uhhh… Hello? How are the kids supposed to live in constant fear of being shot of not reminded that guns can and do exist everywhere?
Trust me, in the south, half of them have guns
I am sorry (not), but I am speaking to you from Germany via an Austrian server. So:
Muh freduum of speek!
Did I do this correctly?
You forgot the screaming eagles and the guitar solo. Otherwise, a solid attempt.
Only if you say it louder while licking the boots of the people taking said freedoms away. Also you need to firmly believe that you are the free-est country in the world. Belief in angels is optional for now.
