Hello all! I began working today, where the work is closely related to programming. Despite this, the work computer is set up as Windows (eww). I want to look for work-arounds, as installing linux on a work machine is a no-go.
I wonder, what is the way to minimize pain from having to use windows? Either that, or a way to maximize work done on linux-like stuffs. A linux server is given for us, and I think I can install WSL. Any recommendations on this setup?
Especially, I miss the virtual desktop feature, is there any way to use it? Is there a way I can run compositor through WSL? Also, should I install Pop! OS for the feature, or is it available on e.g. Ubuntu (default WSL)?
Sorry to ask a non-exclusively-linux question, but I think, hopefully, many linux people have experience to give me pointers what to do with a windows work environment.
EDIT: The Windows is Windows 10. EDIT: It seems like using WSL is servicable, while being janky at times. Gotta see how it goes.
Citrix… I use my Linux setup to remote into my work laptop work for work… It allows me to have my standard Linux workflow while having access to my work stuff and not putting that anywhere locally.
My boss lets me remote into a Linux VM hosted on a company server. You could just use a normal VM.
When people complain about Windows in a work environment, I wonder really what their complaints are. I mean I don’t like windows either but at the end of the day you’re just using visual studio and maybe a terminal emulator to access your work. Your codebase is on a test server or production server.
That said, my mind was blown when I used my first mac. Even the best windows laptop I’ve been given at work would maybe last 4 hours without charging. I can use my Mac for almost two days without charging it which makes going to the office that much easier when I can sit outside. I don’t know if Windows is just extremely inefficient with its resource management or of it’s all the bullshit spyware companies bloat every PC with but if the company absolutely won’t let you install a Linux desktop OS I’d just ask for a Mac. Plenty of staff use them at universities
If you are used to your custom tiling window manager, you are less productive on Windows. Additionally, you have an increased anger level due to all the Windows annoyances.
Windows terminal for starters. Windows has virtual desktops built in.
How do I use windows virtual desktop?
Win + Tab.
- git bash
Windows virtual desktops are not what I would call a good experience. I personally would just use the task bar to switch between Windows.
What virtual desktops do you prefer? I don’t find Mac OS’s significantly better, and I haven’t spent much time with very many Linux window managers other than i3 (and that was years ago).
I don’t use virtual desktops on Windows since they are so poorly implemented. I just use the task bar.
Gnome and KDE both have solid virtual desktop implementations. (gnome especially) I use the tools that I have available at the time.
What’s wrong with the Windows one, and/or what’s better about Gnome’s or KDE’s?
What exactly are you trying to get around? The question is kinda broad.
If your issue is your program behaving differently or being hard to set up depending on the OS, a common strategy is Docker.
PS: why is your employer forcing you to use old Windows that’s going to go end-of-life basically tomorrow morning? That’s odd.
They said they work at a university…
Universities tend to be fans of outdated software?
A few years ago a pretty big state university I worked at didn’t use any kind of NAT. They had such a large public network space(a lot of universities do) that they would just give hosts public IPs. You could go home and just RDP into your desktop. Universities can be a wild wild west.
They are very slow to change
EDIT: The Windows is Windows 10.
Enjoy it while it lasts. It’ll soon be much, much worse.
Window 10 sucks compared to Windows 11 enterprise.
🤦♂️
I recently upgraded to Windows 11 and it’s absolutely fine. Admittedly I did some research, got the IoT LTSC version and enabled the Rufus options to remove account requirements etc. But after that it’s pretty much the same as Windows 10, just slightly swisher animations.
it’s pretty much the same as Windows 10, just slightly swisher animations.
And ten times more unusable without several third party programs to fix the absolutely fubared UI.
It takes about ten clicks more, on average, to do anything in 11 than in 10.
Utterly unusable garbage, is what it is, even if you ignore all the spyware and bloatware and lost functionality.
(Of course the same could be said of 10 in regards to XP, and XP in regards to 2000, so really it’s utterly unusable garbage cubed.)
I…honestly don’t know what you mean, and I’ve had 11 since about when it came out. Do you have an example?
Lots of settings actually seem more convenient now, especially the ones for audio and Bluetooth.
Try to configure a printer.
Try to configure a network adapter.
Try to configure graphics settings.
Try to organise the start menu to make it even remotely useable.
Try to uninstall a store app for all users without having to use undocumented powershell incantations.
And I’m already wanting to punch something, so I’ll stop now.Lots of settings actually seem more convenient now, especially the ones for audio and Bluetooth.
Sure, if all you want is to turn them on or off and you don’t want to actually configure anything.
You’ve failed to mention a single thing that can be qualified as a daily use-case. Okay, it might take an extra click or two to set up a printer, but this isn’t something you do every day unless you work in an IT department. Even then, it sounds like you’re rather irritated that things aren’t how they used to be.
You’ve failed to mention a single thing that can be qualified as a daily use-case
They’re daily use cases to me and everyone I work with, but OK, fuck the people solving your IT problems, I suppose, what could possibly go wrong.
You replied to a person who said:
I recently upgraded to Windows 11, and it’s absolutely fine.
This means that the context of this discussion was quite simple: daily usage by an average person. You brought your highly specific issues into this discussion, which led to my reply.
You are clearly very angry and that interferes with your ability to understand what other people are writing, but that is on you. Stop being angry with everyone else.
Well, seeing as I only just installed Windows 11 I actually do need to do those, so here goes:
Try to configure a printer.
Windows button -> “add printer” -> Click “Add a printer or scanner” -> Click “Add Device” -> Oh my god it actually found my shitty wifi printer immediately! -> Click Add -> Jesus it actually worked quickly and without any issues. I’m actually blown away by this. It’s never worked anywhere close to this smoothly on Linux, Windows 10 or even Mac.
Try to configure a network adapter.
Well I don’t really need to do this but let’s imagine I want to set a static IP.
Windows button -> “net…” ok it wants to show me Settings but it did show me “View Network Connections” for a second too, which based on my experience of Windows 10 is a better bet… -> Right click -> Properties -> TCP/IPv4 -> Properties… Ok everything here appears to be absolutely identical to Windows 10.
Try to configure graphics settings.
Hmm I do want to know what refresh rate I’m using. IIRC in Windows 10 this was always most easily available by right clicking the desktop (yeah it’s not like Windows 10 was exactly consistent).
Right click -> Display settings -> Ok this isn’t what I remember from Windows 7 & maybe 10.
Can’t see refresh rate, but there is “Advanced display”, oh it actually says “Display information, refresh rate” in the subtitle. 100 Hz great.
Try to organise the start menu to make it even remotely useable.
The start menu wasn’t really usable in Windows 10 either. This is certainly an improvement at least - no shitty links to OneDrive or whatever to remove (in the IoT edition at least). The only thing I had to do here was move it to the left instead of the centre, which was fortunately easy.
Try to uninstall a store app for all users without having to use undocumented powershell incantations.
IoT edition doesn’t actually have the Windows Store.
You know. I did all of those for my grandmother a few months back.
If you’re having problems with those things, that’s a you problem. Wasn’t difficult at all to set it up for her, including Uninstalling bloat.
Yes, for some I did Google a powershell solution. Literally, “how to uninstall X with powershell” and boom. Done.
I get it. It’s cool to hate on windows. I miss 7 too. But you just come across as technologically impaired.
.I did all of those for my grandmother a few months back.
Oh, wow, I bow to the expert; I only have to do them several times a week on a variety of machines, and have been doing so for a couple decades. Clearly all my problems would be fixed if I was as experienced as you, please accept my humble apologies, oh master.
If you’re having problems with those things, that’s a you problem.
Oh, most definitely.
I have a problem with settings that used to be grouped on a single easy to get window being randomly spread over several unrelated ones, and that’s the ones which aren’t only configurable now through the registry, or group policies, or powershell incantations.
I have a problem with tasks that used to take 30 seconds and less than five clicks now taking minutes and the risk of developing carpal tunnel syndrome.
I have a problem with the almost constant loss of functionality and usability since windows 2000; sure there’s some nice new features from time to time (winget is nice, if late, WSL1 was good — WSL2 is a horrible bloated hack that completely ignores that the NT architecture is designed to integrate multiple kernel subsystems at its core —, the windows 10 start menu was relatively practical once you got it setup right and until it randomly decided to fubar itself, shadow copies were very nice and are sorely missed…), but they don’t tend to last, and are usually gone by the next version of the OS or even the next major update.
But sure, sure, it’s a me problem; never mind everyone else complaining about the same issues. We clearly just want to be cool.
Hey man, you’re the one struggling to set up printers on windows, not me.
Maybe if you were half as good as you think you are it wouldn’t be a problem.
The Control Panel still exists. You can still access all the panels you had back in win7. And you keep talking about “Powershell incantations” as if it’s magic. Maybe study up on it if you find it so difficult.
Win10 or 11 are far from perfect, but what you’re describing really isn’t that difficult to solve if you know how. You seemingly don’t. That’s a you problem.
Sounds like you’re having a hard time keeping up with our ever changing technology. Win11 wasn’t much of a jump from Win10.
Had dozens of people ask me at my last job if they should punch the upgrade button. Only had one person complain they “couldn’t use it”, and he was a moron.
I’ve had my laptop reimaged at work with windows 11. It’s horrible. I miss windows 10 honestly.
Have you asked whether they’d be okay with a dual-boot? I recently started work as well (gamedev) and while most of the studio is on Windows I was able to set up a NixOS install for productivity (and to test the game on more configs).
Is the server just for you? If so connect to it and pretty much use it as your work machine.
Install Microsoft Powertoys, and AltSnap
Chocolatey and Windhawk
Programming on Windows can be totally fine, if you’re working with a language that cares about Windows support. E.g. in my experience:
- Good: Rust, Go, C#, Java, Deno, Dart
- Okish: Python, C++, Node
- Bad: Perl, OCaml
If it’s in the “bad” category I would recommend installing WSL and using VSCode’s remote feature that lets you have a Windows copy of VSCode connect to WSL.
I want to look for work-arounds
It’s not your computer, i highly recommend you ask for permission.
Especially, I miss the virtual desktop feature,
SysInternals has that feature (Desktops specifically) you can use for Windows 10 (and i think it’s native on 11). This is a common feature in most Linux distros…
What i do is work mostly on VirtualBox VMs, but had to have clearance from IT for that (and for USB) 'cos i do all kinds off stuff that triggers their normie warnings.
I see, I will note myself to ask permission about these stuffs. Thanks!
If you’re allowed a VM, I would recommend using that. Trying to make Windows suitable for dev work is a bottomless pit…
Any good hypervisor? On Windows it seems like you either have hyper-V or VMware. (Virtual box isn’t an option because licensing BS)
VirtualBox itself is under GPLv3. Only the Extension Pack has a wonky license, and you only need that, if you want to e.g. pass a USB port directly into the VM. Or are you not allowed to even just use GPLv3 software?
VMware was also good a few years ago, although of course paid software. Since we last used it, it has been acquired by Broadcom, though, and I have read that the prices are now rather extortionate, but I don’t know, if that also applies to the desktop software.
And I don’t know how you’d actually use Hyper-V without a frontend like VirtualBox or VMware.
But honestly, if it makes your VM run, it’s probably good enough. The main thing you need for dev work is a CPU and to my knowledge, CPU passthrough is a problem solved by all mainstream hypervisors, meaning you get close to 100% of the CPU speed inside the VM, no matter what you use.
The trickly part about Virtualbox is that they like to trick you into using the guest addons. Also last time I checked copy and paste didn’t work without the addons but it has been a while. Hyper-V has its own console and its own tooling if you are fine with it. It isn’t bad but I don’t personally care for it. VMware pro is free now but I would rather avoid Broadcom.
Linux virtualization is better by far. I wish there were more options that were actually multiplatform.
You’re mixing things up there. The Guest Additions is something different than the Extension Pack. The Guest Additions is just a package that gets installed in the virtualized/guest OS, which yeah, makes the clipboard work and sets the resolution correctly and things like that. As far as I can tell from the source code, the Guest Additions are under MIT license, though I didn’t check every file.
And VMware Pro is only free for personal use, so at least for OP, that wouldn’t work.
I believe VMware Pro is now free for everyone but I could be mistaken.
Ah, I believe you’re right. When I looked it up just then, this was the first result, which I figured was what you’re talking about (and which I had heard about): https://blogs.vmware.com/workstation/2024/05/vmware-workstation-pro-now-available-free-for-personal-use.html
But apparently, they changed their policy again, just half a year later: https://blogs.vmware.com/cloud-foundation/2024/11/11/vmware-fusion-and-workstation-are-now-free-for-all-users/
Proxmox? :P I don’t know if that’s actually a good rec lol
That’s a OS not a Windows application
Oh I didn’t think you meant still on windows, my b lol
Powertoys, Chocolatey and Wintoys are pretty useful to make windows at work less painful xD
I think, hopefully, many linux people have experience to give me pointers what to do with a windows work environment
Windows people would have much more experience. Try [email protected] ?
What kind of programming work are you doing?
I’ve thought about situations like yours and what I would do if I were in that situation someday. For me, the plan is to try doing as much in the console as possible, which means Vim/Neovim for development and Tmux for window management.
Why aren’t you discussing this with your leadership?
If you’re doing Linux dev work, there must be a reason your team is using Windows, and they have process around dev tasks. And your team must have process/tools for what your role does.
This seems very much like an internal discussion around what your team does.
+1 for bringing it up as serious discussion.
The last time I had to ask permission for something like this, the issue turned out to be simply that the IT staff wasn’t trained in Linux and therefore couldn’t support it. I was more than capable of administering my own Linux box and ensuring that it wouldn’t become a risk to our company network, so we agreed that I would do that.
It was a win-win result: I had the tool I needed to be most productive, and IT had fewer machines to support.
Sounds more like a win-lin result to me.
I tried at my job. Basically the IT guys are too incompetent and don’t know how to manage Linux computers.
But the company had to be able to have control over what users install, they must also have a VPN and proxy set up in a way that they can monitor what employees do or what they browse. They currently use Zscaler.
Or they are simply overworked like most IT teams.
Managing Linux devices is more complicated since it was very poor Intune and GPO support so you basically have to have another separate system for that.
We only have Linux workstations at work because a dev outside IT, setup their own Linux platform and does it support it. IT support won’t help with any problems though.
The only way Linux workstations are officially supported is that they have certificates for 802.1x.
If the person that supports the Linux platform quits I’m not sure anyone else could take up the task. The Linux sysadmins might but I doubt they have the time for that.
A few people also setup their own Linux computers and abused a flaw in the 802.1x. implementation that allowed them to use Ethernet with a username and password instead of a certificate. That is fortunately fixed now.
Yeah that’s a good point.
The thing with our organization is they selected technologies that are simply not compatible with Linux. Even using WSL is complicated.
It’s dumb because the vast majority of the tasks I do and the technologies I work with is almost exclusively made to work on Linux or requires a Linux VM to work.
I see, I gotta talk about it with the leadership. For context, my work is just a small university lab (5~20 people), so I expect it to be less organized.
Actually, it’s pretty surprising to me that a small university lab is forcing a specific version of a specific OS on you.
It is not forcing per se, it’s just that the computer comes with Windows pre-installed, and I am worried that changing it will cause more issues than it’s worth.
What are you doing? Why do you need Linux at all?
I seem to have irrational hatred on Windows.
Besides, there is programming work which is conducted entirely on linux server.
