Looook,
We are ALL going to Hell, FAST (choose your doom(CC,WWIII,etc).
We are all in the same car, here -like it, or not.
One party, …I’ll let you guess which 😉, has the accelerator pinned to the mat. “We’ll be there in 5 minutes, Boys!! HELL ON EARTH HERE WE COME!”
The other party, is simply driving at half that speed. Results are the same. They are flawed. But they CAN slow the car to give us a bit more time to “brace for impact”. But they too bought into Hell as a destination.
But ya, we’re ALL fucked no matter how much you pledge to one party or the other. One party just whispers in your ear and it’s a bit more gentle while they fuck your already ragged ass.
The other party just dry-humps you violently until your blood provides enough lube for them to finish while pounding their chest as you lie there, bleeding out of your ass on the nice, clean sheets.
That about sums it up from my perspective.
The problem with this is that it assumes both parties act independently.
You know how right now how Republicans are willing to use every loophole, cite ancient forgotten laws, and violate every norm? That’s always been possible. You can’t actually write a constitution to constrain bad-faith actors. You can always come up with a bogus interpretation to do what you want.
If this is possible, you have to ask, why did leaders ever try to follow the law in good faith? How was it ever possible to establish a norms-based stability when either side could knock over the board at any moment?
The answer is that good-faith interpretation of the law fails when people only do so out of principle. It succeeds when good-faith interpretation is a peace treaty. Both sides agree to follow the law in good faith, as the alternative is complete chaos as both sides try to twist every loophole.
Democrats are a bunch of liberal arts majors that have forgotten that Democracy and the rule of law does not exist because everyone worships them as high ideals. They exist because they are a compromise, a peace treaty.
Republicans break norms. In response, Dems latch on even tighter to the norms. Instead, they should be seeking to break them at every opportunity they can. They need to be as ruthless as the Republicans, and even more so.
Following the rule of law is hard. It means giving up power and results that you could otherwise achieve by violating the rule of law.
Right now, only Democrats are trying to obey every norm and precedent. As such, Republicans have nothing to lose by violating these. It’s all upside to them. Their bad behavior is the direct result of Democratic cowardice. If Democrats were willing to give as well as they get, we could actually have a rules-based order again. Paradoxically, a prerequisite for rules to be effective is that both sides need to be willing to violate them.
As I like to say, “The moral high road is filled with corpses”
Well said!
In short, fire with fire. …can’t fight a war with one hand tied to your balls, etc.
Dems have forgotten this. They need a leader to remind them and lead the charge.
if someone told you that, that’s what their sex life was like; you would assume that they’re a damaged person who needs psychiatric help and those psychiatrist would try to help steer them away from sex partners like that and towards healthier sex partners.
even our neighbors to the south have learned this fact and made their own sex lives better; but we americans are like battered spouses who keep bouncing back and forth between the same 2 abusive lovers because we both refuse to accept how damaged we truly are and because the more damaged among us keep re-inforcing the propaganda that voting democrat or republican is the only “grown up” choice to make as the “adults in the room”.
we’re only destined for hell if we keep rejecting a third party; places like mexico have already proved that things get A LOT better once you stop carrying the propaganda that third party is “throwing away” your vote.
(or atleast until you get the america’s attention and they send in their military and bankers to force you back into those abusive relationships… again).
Libs think they’re the party it’s so sad lmao
Obama and Biden said they’d legalize weed. They didn’t. They failed to put abortion rights into the constitution. I mean I can go on these are just off the top of my head.
They are not immune to legit criticism, however it seems like people get the idea that if you criticize democrats that means you are a die hard Trumper or something…
I mean didn’t Trump also promise that and not deliver
Back up. Put abortion rights in the constitution? I cant take you seriously.
Nobody hates Democrats as much as Democrats do.
Nobody gets betrayed by democrats as much as democrats do.
Probably because two political parties isn’t enough to truly represent the population.
People shit talk non voters, but these are people who found no representation in the two party system. We can change this. We can have more then two political parties. To think otherwise is to think inside the world’s smallest box.
Duverger’s Law says that as long as we have this system of voting, we’re going to have two, and only two, major parties. It has changed once in history: when the Republicans replaced the Whigs. So, that’s what you’re looking at: either change the system of voting or replace one of the two parties.
The major political parties may have only changed names once, but the most common stance in modern political science is that we are in the 6th political party alignment in US history.
- Centralization 1796-1824
- Jacksonians 1828-1852
- Republicans 1856-1892
- Progressives 1898-1928
- New Dealers 1932-1972
- Neoliberalism 1980-Present
Countries with more parties such as those in Western Europe are also electing fascists. The answer doesn’t lie in more parties. China has a majority party and it doesn’t get people doing the Sieg Heil
Didn’t close gitmo. Didn’t end the war on terror. Created the same border camps democrats cry at the gates of for political points. Bailed out the perpetrators of one of this countries most high profile and damaging financial crimes because they held rich peoples stock portfolios hostage. Made pointless concessions on the ACA to republicans who never once cross the isle for even the things they want to pass because they’d rather take the credit themselves.
Those are the ones I’m pulling off the top of my head.
well said. you can pretty much extrapolate this line of thought to every soc-dem, left-of-center, liberal party in the world. they make a wiener water government, blame people when they lose elections and are left wondering why people didn’t called their wiener water government a bouillabasse or an onion soup.
Running a feckless campaign that refused to break with Biden’s admin on genocide is why we got this living hell. And running the most unlikeable woman in the country in 2016 is what made 2024 even a possibility.
Dems have fucked up terribly.
You’re absolutely right
That about sums it up.
I’ll vote Democrat as long as the alternative is fascism.
But fuck me, I’d love to vote for something else. And I’ll be honest, I have no idea how we get anything better.
I hear people saying to organize, but I can’t even imagine what that takes. I wonder if most Americans feel as helpless as I do in the face of this absolute bullshit.
I’ll vote Democrat as long as the alternative is fascism.
Unfortunately, much of what the Democrats represent is fascism.
Depends on what you mean by “much”? I’d argue the Democrats, on the whole, are liberals, not fascists.
I’d certainly prefer progressives and leftists though.
The support for Israel whole they genocide Palestine, thought… ugh. That can certainly be viewed as fascism, although where you draw the distinction between fascism and imperialism is up for debate. Not that imperialism is good either, just saying.
Liberals are the only people in history to vote for fascists to prevent class solidarity, and they’ve done it every time.
If you scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds.
The hard fact is that what the population votes for is what the population gets. They have completely given up their agency and just accept this impotent logic of “we’ll take whatever the most obvious/most apparently easy option is, that isn’t a Republican”. It’s a cyclical problem, the voters don’t care enough to force politicians to be good, and the politicians don’t care enough to court voters.
At the same time, “what the population votes for is what the population gets” ignores that we are often only presented with crappy options to start with.
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say “you get what you fight for, and if you don’t fight you get what you get.”
I… haven’t really fought for anything. I believed the right things. I voted as best I could. But that clearly didn’t stop this.
I want to protect my ego and say I’m not a coward. Is there a distinction to be made between cowardice and simply not knowing what to do? I don’t know. I just know I’m trying my best, but maybe that’s just not enough.
At the same time, “what the population votes for is what the population gets” ignores that we are often only presented with crappy options to start with.
It does not ignore that, rather it explicitly takes that into account.
The caveat to my statement would ONLY be “so long as we’re using this system.”
Please focus more on accurate logic.
You would think committing a genocide would’ve settled the whole “lesser evil” thing, but the Blue MAGA cult insists there’s a way to commit lesser evil genocide now.
#bothSides
Yes, actually. Both genocidal as a matter of fact.
If you somehow managed to reduce all of American politics into two sides, neither democrats nor republicans would be on yours.
Removed by mod
Now this fucking guy is on .ml too?
lol
The problem with people with like you is you listen to what the Dems say they’re doing, and don’t bother to confirm what Dems are actually doing. It’s why you’re all terrified of Trump’s immigration policies, and have no clue that Obama & Biden deported way more people.
You’re in a cult.
Does the way in which they are deported matter?
Is it better when they target people who are undocumented and provably so vs just checking out everyone tanner than a Mainer in the winter?
Do you see a difference between the specific policies of the two administrations?
Youre going to keep doing this lesser evil bit until the dems have you seig heiling while the republicans drain your blood for the ritual to begin Armageddon.
Hold up. You believe the Dems & GOP are swapping out frontline ICE and CBP agents during power transitions?
No, I think the administrators on top are switched and they give different marching orders. They enforce policy differently based on who is in the Oval office and that administration’s decisions. That is why there is a difference in how these deportations were carried out.
Do you think the top agents determine policy for an agency?
This is why no one takes Dem voters seriously. Y’all believe the press releases matter more than the material actions.
Battered spouse syndrome
My whole point is the material actions of the two administrations do differ. Trump is targeting anyone not white whereas Biden at least targeted people with legal violations. One policy puts all immigrants in fear while the other theoretically should not.
The fact that you can’t see the difference isn’t something I can help you with.
the only voters that aren’t taken seriously in the USA are leftists and if you doubt that for a second please point out the progressive party that controls anything in this shithole.
A democratic that is average at democracy is better than a conservative who is great at authoritarianism.
Most people wanted to stop sending money for wars, and Democrats kept sending money for wars. Most people wanted to defund the police and democrats tripled the police budget. That is not a democracy. That is the total opposite of a democracy.
Tripled the police budget?
Yes, Joe “We have to back the blue” Biden tripled the police budget during and after the BLM protests
What police budget?
Also curious what police budget he doubled, I thought congress handled money
“average at democracy” is when you aggressively expand the world’s largest police state while persuing a policy of genocide.
Liberals think Democrats aren’t half to blame for this shitty country being the way it is.
Who you calling a liberal?
The ones who get their undies twisted when we criticize Democrats.
Some liberals.
i thought it was most liberals given that the nucleus of the “both sides” argument during the election was to characterize conservatives’ bad faith arguments about both the democrats and republicans being the same when it came to ghoulish behavior.
I genuinely feel like that was a coordinated campaign to erode voter trust and motivation with some trolling thrown in on top.
Catch any single lib and ask them straight up; “Do you think both sides are the same?”
I’m not interested in what libs think about that. I already know.
Can you give me the TL:DR?
It’s an unfortunate trait of the reddit migrations. That place was crawling with die-hard liberals, not entirely dissimilar to scabies. It stands to reason a few of the uninitiated would find their way here.
In spite of how I started this comment, we must remember that they are of the working class, and further division is a benefit exclusive to the capitalist.
I feel that the further we sink into full-blown fascism, the more of them will become aware, and may be counted among allies one day soon.
I plan to speak to those who are willing to listen and learn. But beware the contentious fool, ever seeking a debate but never trying for understanding.
.world got the liberals that were too delusional for reddit.
I agree, but the fact that they even came here gives me hope that they are open to change. It’s the ones who stayed on reddit are the lost causes, I think.
This thread kind of disproved itself
What dem supporters need to understand is that support for Trump for many is people sticking two fingers up at the neoliberal order. All this talk of “woke” or whatever would all evaporate if people thought they were getting a fair shake. Of course it’s a bloody stupid way of protesting this like so as it’s basically asking the foxes to fix the hen house.
The key point is the neoliberal order hasn’t been successful by capitalist standards. GDP growth in western countries from 1985-2015 was slower than the 1955-1984 period which preceded neoliberal policies taking hold.
So what you ended up with was a system which actually slowed growth, removed welfare in a lot of cases, made housing unaffordable and really only seems to have succeeded in funnelling money into the hands of the 0.1%.
People have been convinced all kinds of scapegoats and whatever are to blame, but it’s pretty clear that they see mainstream politicians, as most embodied by the Dems, as the face of their issues.
The lack of self-reflection on the part of mainstream Dems is a huge, serious issue which has basically given Trump and Musk a blank cheque to implement fascism or at least very authoritarian capitalism.
As the industrial capacity of most nations was devastated in WWII or never existed until after 1945 we shouldn’t be surprised that we saw more growth during rebuilding than after everything was built so neoliberal policies aren’t the primary reason for slowed growth.
Neoliberal policies were introduced under Reagan and Thatcher before 1984 as both would have been in office for years before 1984 (Regan in 1980 and Thatcher in 1979) which should further complicate your claims.
Most of what has gone wrong is a failure to maintain the social contracts as we promoted a rather sociopathic understanding of growth at all costs in business schools starting in the 1970s.
I legitimately haven’t seen anyone defend democrats. They’re like the IRS: necessary, but no one likes them.
What I have seen is “democrats suck!” as a general deflection anytime someone mentions how bad this current administration is, how it could have been prevented, or what we need to do in the future…
Democrats are only necessary if your goal is to maintain the illusion that America is a democracy which serves the people while maintaining the status quo.
Democrats are a net negative. What is necessary is something we don’t have and haven’t had, a true leftist party. The lack of that necessary party is what has led us to this current situation.
The Republicans being bad doesn’t make the Democrats good. Especially when they are complicit.
See, this is people defending the Dems lmao. Not a single falsehood, but it’s downvoted all the same.
What I hear is a lot of complaints and very few ideas of what to do about it. The Democrats can be forced to suck less.
I have seen plenty and Democrats are not like the IRS. They are not necessary at all. They are just one right wing party that should disappear and be taken by an actual left wing party. The fact that you think that they are necessary shows how deep the ingraining of the necessity of a bipartisan oligopoly has run in the populous.
`The fact that you think that they are necessary shows how deep the ingraining of the necessity of a bipartisan oligopoly has run in the populous.
This is the crux and can not be overstated.`
Let me guess, a left wing party that sucks it up to putin?
What’s your take on putins brutal invasion of Ukraine for example?
It’s exactly this racism as a first recourse to defend your oligarchy that has your settler country in the shitter. America can’t die fast enough i stg.
Lazy.
I’m a socialist. Fuck Putin, free Ukraine.
It’s that easy.
Thank you! Yes, IMO it is that easy
Now SausageCat avoided the question …
Yes, deflecting is THAT easy! Now you can turn any criticism into your own minute of hate and avoid engaging in self criticism.
Hey, it’s worked out so well for your country!
Removed by mod
Be easier to just post the entire bag of thought terminating cliches you have instead of doing it one by one so everyone can save some time.
We can even pretend we haven’t seen all the same ones with the same wording from every other milquetoast lib.
Is this leap because of the .ml on their name? I’m not trying to agitate you but it took me too long to understand how Putin was a part of this conversation. I could also just be dumb or missed something.
They aren’t wrong that the Dems are a right wing party and we deserve better, especially when compared to European politics.
If you told a lib they can’t drive because they’re too drunk they’d tell you only a paid Putin troll would say it and drive off yelling about democracy
I’m european BTW.
What do you think about putins brutal invasion of Ukraine?
I’m european
That’s even worse. At least your politicians have shares in US companies and get bribes, what’s your excuse for white knighting a corporate party from a country you can’t even vote in?
Is this leap because of the .ml on their name?
No, it’s just what centrists say about anyone to the left of Netanyahu.
I’ts possible to acknowledge that Democrats Suck while simultaneously acknowledging that electing one was the only chance to avoid a Trump presidency.
You must be on some weird ass instance. I see tons of reasonable anger at democrats and Republicans alike. I don’t see upvotes for baseless tribal click bait like this tho
Nah, post something to /c/memes saying the US is a fascist nation and has been so for decades, it’s upvotes galore.
Imply the democrats have anything to do with it, and suddenly what’s the time in Moscow, how does Xi’s dick taste like, yadda yadda
Oof sounds bad
Everyone here that defends democrats knows they’re not the best people.
Still immensely better than the alternative.
Nah. Both parties suck. Repubs damage, Dems half ass do damage control, then sit around making minor changes and act like they’re saviors. The geriatric fucks that hold seats have no semblance of understanding the current world and so we fall behind the curve further every year. Easy things that are obvious never get passed because those get bribed. Sick of the whole system obviously.
Democrats don’t do damage control, they actively build the machinery for the next republican to be even more brutal.
They got so heated about pro Palestinian stuff on TikTok that they handed Donald Trump authority to ban any website he feels like by executive fiat. Then TikTok didn’t get banned and Trump got for credit for saving it.
I will never forget kente clothes.
Republicans are the problem. Democrats are pretending to be the solution but are also the problem.
The reason Democrats deserve more hate is because they divert people from organising a solution to the problem. At least Republicans are honest about how much they suck.
