What is your line in the sand?
Edit: thank you all for your responses. I think it’s important as an American we take your view points seriously. I think of a North Korean living inside of North Korea. They don’t really know how bad it is because that is all hidden from them and they’ve never had anything else. As things get worse for Americans it’s important to have your voices because we will become more and more isolated.
Even the guy who said, “lol.” Some people need that sort of sobering reaction.
Not at all, you are just an autocracy now but don’t fully realise it, and as the other commentator had said, not even really a good democracy in the loosest of terms before this entire mess going on ATM!
Shit I live inside the US and I barely consider it a democracy.
lol
Unfortunately, it’s still a democracy. The electorate wanted what’s now going on. That could rapidly change at this point, but for now not yet.
Democracy is a sliding scale and the US is still on it. Could the people choose something different without resorting to violent revolution and protest? Yes
I’m a bit skeptical about this argument because autocratic states love to hold practically fake and forced elections with 90 or 99 % approval and use that as justification.
Sure, but that’s not the case in the US
I think the possibly final test for American democracy will be the midterm elections in two years. By then, I think that either trump will have broken the system enough to get a sham election, or we’ll see real, verifiable push-back against him. International organisations that monitor elections will probably take part in shaping my opinion on whether the election is fair or not. I think it’s worth remembering that whenever countries hold “fake and forced elections” there are plenty of international observers that point out the major rigging going on.
Unfortunately yes. People wanted this. They still want this. But people were also cheering for like, Mao even after he put millions of his own citizens into the ground, so who knows
Absolutely not. A two party system was barely nominally a form of democracy. Current one quacks like a dictatorship and walks like a dictatorship. They might hold a fake election one day like many of those do, but still no.
Firstly, the USA is obviously not a “dictatorship”. Come on, be serious. Words mean things.
Second, America’s two-party system also has internal factions and primaries, many of them completely open (you don’t even need to declare allegiance to the party). The primaries are effectively the first round in a two-round electoral system (of which there are plenty in the world). The whole point is to create a binary choice in the final round. For some reason this always gets missed by otherwise informed observers. “There are only two parties” is just not a valid argument in this debate.
Of course, none of these facts will be popular here, since the real point of this thread is to allow participants to performatively dump on the shared hate-object. Classic social media, I get it.
While I don’t consider the system of governance there very good, I’ll have to agree. While I do absolutely worry for the American democracy, it isn’t a dictatorship in its current form. I also agree that the primaries do make the system better and more democratic. I still think that the two part system is abysmal, but the primaries do make the claim to democracy stronger.
That’s a balanced and fair-minded take. Unfortunately it won’t be appreciated here, because what people are looking for in this thread is catharsis and confirmation of their biases.
In practice, however, it is a two-party system.
Firstly, the USA is obviously not a “dictatorship”.
You sure about that? Have you read the news lately?
Yeah I have and saying that kinda just makes you seem uninformed.
Like the people who call the US “a 3rd world country in a Gucci belt”. It just makes it super obvious that you don’t understand how high quality of a life the average person has in the US. Especially globally.
Well think about a lot of the characteristics of the US and maybe you’ll at least see where they’re coming from. It’s not about 100% accuracy as much as perspective. And it seems like it’d hard to shatter illusions some people there have.
High poverty rate compared to developed countries, low literacy rates compared to developed countries, Highly authoritarian, highly propagandised, militia compounds spread throughout.
You you can be taken and imprisoned in a desert camp, fed expired food, put in a chain gang and not that it would be OK otherwise, but you haven’t been convicted of a crime.
Constant terrorist attacks.
You can be put in solitary until you have psychosis and youre smearing feces on the walls, and then the confessions you give after that can be used in court.
There was a mass protest of slave Labour and the slaves were starved until they went back to work.
You can be disappeared and have your residency revoked for protesting war crimes. You had someone who worked in your torture camps run to be a candidate for president and they got far.
Child marriage is legal.
People are sent back to a polluted industrial hazard town after train derailment and all the animals are dead and they’re complaining of chemical burns. If they complain the get dragged out by cops.
Food standards not accepted elsewhere. Companies can poison large parts of the population and even if they’re punished its an amount that still means the profited from it
They took a guy who promoted health misinformation that led to dead kids and they put him in charge of health, even though a worm ate his brain.
Expansionist, aggressive, worships the military but fucks over veterans, complains about first responders injured on the job getting health care, so they scrapped it. Constantly chasing culture was BS, never quite left the satanic panic.
I’m not going to list all the red flags, but there is a reason people feel like this. A few major ones, president talking about taking over other countries out of the blue, attacking our allies to the point where Americans are suffering much more than necessary, his sidekick doing Nazi salutes on stage, literal commercials for his $idekick on the white house lawn.
It’s pretty clear there is no rule of law for blatant corruption and no accountability. Replace USA/Trump with Russia/Putin or NK/Un, guess what, same shit, different smell. Either follow orders or get shipped out is the example they’re trying to set, as well as making free speech illegal.
We’re FAR from a functioning democracy.
Firstly, the USA is obviously not a “dictatorship”. Come on, be serious. Words mean things.
They do. Have you ever heard about elective dictatorship?
Mere presence of elections, especially gerrymandered to hell and especially where minority can easily win, does not make a democracy.
The USA is categorized by people who have studied this subject more closely than you (or me) as a flawed democracy. This is a dumb discussion. That’s all I have to say here.
people who have studied this subject more closely than you
And you know it is how, exactly?
I don’t discuss with people who downvote my comments. You clearly don’t care what I have to say. Good night.
How do we see who downvotes?
I know they had that on kbin but not Lemmy. I want to see it too. Which client or frontend are you using?
I just extrapolated. Their comment was posted at the same time as a downvote.
If they denied it I would apologize.
I don’t discuss with people who downvote my comments.
So you only discuss with yourself?
You clearly don’t care what I have to say.
There is some truth in that, I only pay attention to people who have a valid point.
Depends on the outcome of the next election.
Or the existence of said election at all…
It was never a democracy.
Not for a long time. The Economist Democracy Index demoted the US to a “flawed democracy” since 2016, where it has been ever since.
Democracy index, 2024 - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/democracy-index-eiu
I really never did, not a well functioning at least. They’ve practiced voter repression for decades, and then they had fun testing how low they could go after 9/11, doing a lot of unlawful shit, going after citizens who spoke out against their policies and wars.
I do. On my imaginary scale around 4 out of 10. So far the mess looks to me like it was voted in.
How can you be a democracy if you have only two political parties?
With one not giving a fuck, and the other severely fractured due to conflicting ideals none the less
Absolutely not. A country where two parties are the only two viable electoral options, is absolutely not a democracy. Doesn’t mean I’ll stop my membership for the PSL.
What does PSL stand for?
Plus Sized Lobsters
Pacific South Lest
.ml dipshits who spam “nato aggression” memes
Pink Sexy Lizards
Party for Socialism and Liberation.
Pumpkin Spice Latte
I am inside and I want to get out
Same. Is there a sign up sheet, or…?
Would be nice to know what part of America you mean by that. It is a pretty big continent you know? Argentinians, Mexicans, Brasilians and so on are all part of America.
Buuuut I’m gonna go ahead and assume you are asking about the UNITED STATES country, right?
Yes it is a Democracy. Not perfect, but then again which one is?
Colloquially, internationally, when people say America, I don’t think of them referring to anywhere but the US. I’m not about making things US centric either, just saying.
For the time being, sure. I dint think democracy is a binary. Democracy doesn’t imply a fair system or universal suffrage or a system where power is split.
Like for example the Vatican is a absolute monarchy and also a democracy.
