This might be relevant to those who wish / have to use Windows 11:
This week, Microsoft made it very clear that it wants to block the popular BYPASSNRO workaround, used to skip the internet and Microsoft Account requirement checks during the Windows 11 installation OOBE (initial setup), although thankfully, the script can still be created using Registry edits.
A 7 step guide.
People say Stockholm syndrome is fake, but when I see Windows users, I know it’s real. They have been suffering for years and never thought once about alternatives like Ubuntu.
“Oh Linux is too complicated, I can’t do that.” Yeah, you can’t click on Firefox to open Firefox, or LibreOffice to write a document. That’s too hard.
To rant a bit, the last time I helped my parents, I removed every icon from their desktop and installed Firefox with uBlock Origin. Only Firefox on the desktop, it was idiot proof. When I came back, Firefox had disappeared and on the desktop I saw: Edge, 2 copies of Chrome with the most scummy plugins ever, and one Chrome fork that came from an adware that they purposefully installed (WTF). I told them that they had a virus, and that from now on I wouldn’t help them anymore. They like to suffer, I let them.
My parents are almost completely technological-illiterate (i.e. due to old age my father doesn’t even have a cellphone nor knows how to use it, and my mother barely can know how to do calls in her phone - both of them don’t know how to use a computer) but they know they don’t know about stuff - so hearing stories like that kind of make me be thankful they’re like that and that they will hear me when needing some advice or need to do something involving something tech-y
thankful they’re like that
Yep, being humble is THE key to learning. If people assume they know, they discard advice from people who actually invested time to learn about a topic… then they end up in a terrible place due to them cherishing their own ignorance. Very sad but also quite common.
They have been suffering for years and never thought once about alternatives like Ubuntu
The average user is pretty unaffected by windows’ enshitification. And if it doesn’t fuck over their daily life, most people are more than happy to keep using the thing they’re familiar with. Especially when switching would require not only learning one new thing, but a large number of new things. For example, do you use paint.net? Sucks to suck, time to find a Linux alternative and learn how to use it and hope it can do everything you need it for.
Linux fanatics like to pretend its as simple as installing a different OS and that’s it, everything else in your workflow will work immediately with no research needed. But that’s simply not true.
… everything else in your workflow will work immediately with no research needed.
I’ll put it simply for you: You can spend a few hours figuring out a new workflow, or you can spend the rest of your life fighting a losing battle against a megacorporation that has it out for you that will also randomly upend on your workflow.
Im not saying sticking with windows is the better option. Im just saying people should stop acting like it’s a one and done switch with no extra effort needed.
Nothing in life takes no effort. I’m only advocating on the basis that Windows has become more of an effort to stick with than Linux has become to learn.
The average user is pretty unaffected
The average user complains about Windows all the time around me and I have to fix their crap constantly. It is fucking over their daily life, either by preventing them from working or by swallowing their files into a black hole. Windows users at work don’t care about it, but around me when it’s their personal computer, it’s a disaster.
switching would require not only learning one new thing, but a large number of new things
Any Ubuntu from 10 years ago is identical to the latest Windows. It’s laziness, fear, or being hostage, but it’s certainly not learning something new. Also, Windows 11 is completely different from the previous versions and it didn’t seem to bother them.
I can relate. It is like those tool bars that were installed automatically if you weren’t attentive while installing software when Windows XP still was around.
They like to suffer, I let them.
Me too. I always suggest to them to install UBlock origin (or any ad blocker compatible to their browser), along with add ons that get rid of cookie consent banners. If they follow my advice, I will invest my time into helping them to make their OS a little bit less annoying (e.g. switching off telemetry data and uninstalling Copilot). If they can’t be bothered with at least installing an ad blocker, I will not waste my time on them. They clearly want to suffer.
Edit: The screenshot displays a Windows Vista UI. These Toolbars must have been aorund also while Windows Vista was around. I didn’t know that, because Vista made me settle into the other walled garden.
Question: what is the downside of making a throwaway ms account upon install and never touching that account again?
The unacceptable thing for me is that it requires internet access to use the operating system. That seems completely unnecessary.
Ah so after install and throwaway account is set up, you can’t log in to the computer if your internet is down or turned off?
No it’s that it won’t let you install and set up unless it can access the internet and you create or login to an account.
I work at an MSP 99% of all machines we deploy for our clients are windows based. The oobe /bypassnro is just mandatory for initial setup. Yes, there are ways around it post setup but it’s just that much extra to do.
Having a local admin account for domain or azure/entra joined is still very useful. I don’t get why MS refuses to accept this. (Money/data harvesting aside, we all know the real reason, just wish they’d just admit to it).
This. When the user hasn’t even showed up yet, setting up a local account out of the box saves a bunch of time.
Looks better than my solution which was to join the machine to a domain then add a local account after. I always add a local account of my machines then add them to a domain. Simple fact is they want to trap people in their walled garden and it isn’t going that well for them.
I’m sure it’s going really well because the vast majority probably just give in.
You can’t join a domain with home, and win 11pro has You create a local account first before joining domain.
I know. All machines I purchase are pro machines. The only home machine a laptop we installed linux on it and just kept going.
L
I
N
U
XBut that’s only 5 steps!
L I N U X I N U X L N U X L I U X L I N X L I N U
Damn, forgot about formatting. Well it looks dope on my screen, you’ll just have to imagine it.
People who can’t or don’t want to use Linux should just use Windows LTSC or IOT. It’s honestly the next best thing. I just set it up for my brother. When you open up the start menu on the fresh install and there is nothing there out of the box, it’s such a nice feeling. No ads, no games, no onedrive, nothing. The only thing LTSC has is Microsoft Edge but even that one you can uninstall.
Licenses are expensive, but you can easily activate it with mas.
How expensive is expensive? And you usually can’t just buy a single license, right? You have to have an enterprise agreement and buy some minimum number.
Enterprise is a bit funny with how it works, there is a 5 license minimum, but they don’t all need to be Enterprise. You can get 1 LTSC upgrade license (±$300), then on top of that get 4 of the one user Microsoft Identity Manager CALs to become compliant (4x ±$10). This also still requires you to have a Professional (not Home) license already as it is an upgrade.
Microsoft is not selling the licences to individuals, you need to buy it as a business, or buy it somewhere else. You can try this. https://www.cdw.com/search/?key=ltsc Idk if or how it works. I just install iso, and use mas command, and it is activated. I don’t care that I “stole” from microsoft.
7 steps? I have it down to 3
- don’t by will 11 home
- when at the account creation screen select This will be domain joined.
- create local account.
As a civilization, we need to accept that we can no longer continue to depend on Microsoft Windows to use our computers. Hopefully the transition will go through without Microsoft having the opportunity to try to save themselves.
I don’t think we are even close to getting critical mass but there gamers can be converted pretty easily now.
Each time micro-shit does a thing, Linux gets more users.
Prolly will take another decade or two but Linux will hit that critical mass.
Every day more people find out that Linux is part of the freedom tool set.
Meta : I’d be curious to know the ratio of people downvoting the “Linux!” suggestion who actually do so from Windows.
Bought an old laptop for my daughter’s first computer. She’s going to just learn typing and some simple stuff. Not able to install Windows with a local account. Fedora KDE it is then.
“Linux is far too complex for the common person to use.”
Installing windows without your data being harvested: 7 steps, then editing registry files, uninstalling most of the programs that come with it and get reinstalled with every update, use this command prompt, download this program from a random website you’ve never heard of before…
Installing Linux without your data being harvested: Click continue.
Linux is so difficult you guys, no one could possibly learn the command line.
Linux is so difficult you guys, no one could possibly learn the command line.
In the vast VAST majority of “normal” use cases, which I’d argue for most people it’s :
- Web browsing
- watching videos or listening to music
- editing text documents, spreadsheets, presentations
- playing video games
- managing files, e.g. moving them in directories, compressing them, etc
- keeping the system up to date
- using a printer
there are reliable ways to use a GUI. So… even though IMHO the command line is absolutely worth learning, one can perfectly use Linux my “just” clicking their way around.
I work in IT (almost exclusively Windows) and have been using Linux on my private machines for 8 years now. I barely know anything about the command line. I don’t have to be a Linux nerd because it just works with the GUI. (KDE Plasma. Can’t speak for other DEs)
I work in IT
You are not a common user.
Maybe he really sucks at his job
Method acting approach to IT
it unironically sounds like a good approach for some roles, though?
I think our IT department is full of them, because they crash everyone’s computers every other month
He doesnt use the command line
I’ve swapped back and forth between Linux and Windows a half dozen times now, and I can honestly say, both are a bitch to set up from a clean install.
Even with guides and autoloading scripts and whatnot, it’s still going to be a few days of pain while you try to figure out what else needs to be installed to use the computer the way you want to use it.
Or that’s how it works for me.
I mostly just wish more games were linux native.
can you explain why it takes you that long to set up a new linux install? for me a fresh install with a (really not complex) script to install my required software and copying over config files takes maybe one hour (excluding game downloads of course).
genuinely interested if your setup is that much more complex or where the difference comes from.
I’m counting game installations. Then there’s the fact that NoScript seems to reset every time I swap operating systems, so now I have to figure out what I’ve allowed and blocked before…
Then there’s the pruning of random shit that was auto installed. Some of that shit can take days to find.
But most of the pain is when I try to do X, and need to find a program that will do it. This happens in Windows and Linux, and either will have programs that work, but then I have to find the program and learn it, and then let enough time pass where I have to do it all over again.
The most recent example was a map making program for my Table Top RPG obsession. One program that’s a go-to under Windows (with possible Linux capability?) is called AutoRealm. Which hasn’t updated since 2013… But it’s still one of the most powerful fractal mapping programs I’ve ever lightly used.
Orrrrrr, hear me out, just click once and get an online account because you don’t care.
And yes, the command line is an issue to most regular users. My parents don’t grasp the concept of keyboard shortcuts for copying and pasting. I get a phone call every time they try to attach a file to an email, where they say the steps when they are doing it so they don’t fuck it up. If you use the computer to access a single webpage that’s bookmarked, youtube and ebay, maybe an hour every week at most, expecting them to have to learn a new system and a command line isn’t feasible. People like icons and clicking. If you managed to get rid of a keyboard and maintain functionality, they’d switch in a heartbeat. That’s why smartphones are so popular. That’s why kids preffer touchscreen over controller, and are basically unable to play keyboard and mouse anymore.
If you use the computer to access a single webpage that’s bookmarked, youtube and ebay, maybe an hour every week at most, expecting them to have to learn a new system and a command line isn’t feasible.
You don’t need to access the command line (nor even the system really) to do browsing. The same browser you use on windows is gonna work on Linux.
fun fact Rufus already has all of this automated and even has steps to have the local account of your choice already as part of the image
Install. Linux. Mint.
My sarcasm has less steps than this workaround. A linux install has less steps than that.
People like to complain that Linux is complicated to setup and use. In recent years, it’s increasingly the opposite. Basic windows settings locations are shuffled around and hidden and you have to use the Windows Commandline/Powershell to get things done. And installing Linux is also much faster and most of all doesn’t ask you a hundred questions how to best steal your data.
You are right. From what I saw Linux-based OSs have come a long way. The issue with Linux is when it comes to professional environments, that are not IT-related: There are niche programs that are used in certain professions that were written to work on Windows computers exclusively. They are not availiable for other OSs, because they are not wide spread or popular with non-professionals. Also, Microsoft Office (especially Outlook and Excel) is very dominant within the professional field - up to a point that it can’t be changed easily. All this does not apply to users who use Linux computers outside a professional enviroment, as there are alternatives for popular programs and services already.
Yeah, I know. Especially the MS Office dominance is still a problem in business scenarios. For private use though there are office solutions which are “good enough” (Office 365 and Google Docs, Spreadsheets etc in a Browser, Libreoffice to name a few)
Just turned a Win10 machine into Ubuntu not too long ago. It took all day, broke several times, and still has issues booting remotely. It is getting easier, but a 30 minute Windows install with a few button presses is still easier, unfortunately
Next time try Mint.
Maybe you were just unlucky in your specific hardware combination? I did literally dozens of Ubuntu installations on very different hardware over the years. Most of the time it was a matter of minutes, and without any glitches or need for troubleshooting.
That’s not a Linux problem, that’s a PEBKAC or hardware problem.
Agree. The installation isn’t a barrier. Basic OS navigation probably isn’t either anymore. Its still having to use alternative software and work arounds that I think is the frustrating part for the average user attempting to switch. Also, it’s that they can’t use Linux at work in many cases and it’s uncomfortable to switch environments on a daily basis from home computing to workplace computing. You’d think with nonsense like the crowds trike crash more businesses would force the switch, but unfortunately I don’t get the sense that is happening.
uncomfortable to switch environments on a daily basis from home computing to workplace computing
How so? Most people just use a browser and edit basic documents. Once those apps are started the OS itself matters little, basic things like copy/paste or alt/tab work exactly the same. Chances are at work they don’t even have the right to admin their machine so for “complex” things it’s out of their reach there.
Who actually uses Microsoft Windows?
Many
Mostly companies who have platform specific software that would cost to much to replace or take to long to replace. There’s still companies that run ancient versions of OSs like Pre Mac OS X and Windows 95 because there’s simply no newer OS that can run a specific software besides that OS.
And very many small users who are used to it, buy it already installed and are unable to do anything about it. It seems people often forget normies exist.
Isnt it still cheaper to run that legacy crap in wine or a VM?
There are some issues with VMs and WINE that make the actual hardware & OS more appealing. I’ve heard of issues like the VM won’t start or there’s instabilities in the VM itself that makes things more difficult. Wine and compatibility layers like it can and do have issues with obscure software or it can’t run the software properly or at all.
