Hey all, I am locking this post. Here is the bottom line. Blahaj is a trans safe instance. Regardless of your personal opinion on whether a term is gender neutral or not, the moment someone tells you that they are not OK with that term, that should be the end of the debate. This is a good rule not only in Blahaj but in real life. Continuing to argue with someone about what they should or should not accept in this matter is harmful.
Soooo much appreciation for this 🩷 I think I’ll forever mentally twitch when people use dude, man, mate, bro, etc. towards me. I totally know it’s done in a gender neutral way, but I still feel a small pang in my heart.
How’s Homie sit with you? (I think Homie is a great gender neutral term!)
My long-time friend and hair stylist very occasionally uses that with me and her other girl friends. She uses it super occasionally and in such a loving way that it doesn’t bother me as much. It’s very context dependent with her since she’s so caring and affirming to me and usually uses girl, sis, beautiful, babe, etc. If someone I didn’t know used that with me, I’d probably understand it’s being used in a gender-neutral way, but it originates from ‘homeboy’, so it still carries that slight weight.
I use it mainly with people I am familiar with.
I like to have terms of endearment for others and thats just one thats been good in a lot of contexts for me.
You and SCmSTR have pointed out the complexity in choosing that as a go to.
Thank you!
Using a validating, non vaguely-male term is great, though!
Most of the terms are like: “these are MALE terms and also girls can be ‘one of the bros’ in certain circumstances”… but that’s just not what transition is about.
We don’t want to be “just one of the bros”; you gotta understand that:
a) that’s NOT what a lot of us after,
b) the world doesn’t revolve around men and being men and being masculine (and perpetuating that male chauvinism perspective is shitty),
and c) it’s okay to call girls, girls, and to be a woman. That isn’t a negative or lesser or othering l thing, despite how much of society raises us to believe.
I’m also not saying that we don’t want to be included wherever we feel comfortable fitting in, we absolutely do. And I think a lot of allies understand that. But just as many allies understand that trans women feel left out from being included in feminine spaces, as well. And sometimes, while we may fit in better with the bros, way more than the girls, that itself can feel awful and really get the dysphoria going. Sometimes though, some of us realize that the dudes that are bros we realize are hot and dumb and we want to be closer to them for… different reasons.
Personally, I’m poly and pan and just want everybody to get along and not have weird stereotypically forced gender segregated hobbies, interests, and cliques anymore because that’s weird and uncomfy. I don’t even know what I’m talking about anymore I haven’t eaten today yet. Homie is fine, I guess, but borderline, personally. I don’t know a better replacement.
I’m a person who calls everyone “dude”, “bro”, “man” etc. regardless of gender. When I talk to a woman using those words, my mentality isn’t that they are necessarilly “one of the bros” specifically meaning “similar to one of my male friends”, but more that I’ve never called anyone “sis” or “girl” in my life, and I’m not about to start. I also don’t like using gendered pronouns in any conversation, regardless of who I’m talking to. For example, instead of “him” or “her”, I will usually say " 'em" (short for them).
To me, I am not talking to a man or a woman; I am talking to a human.
With my transfem friends, though, I usually just call them by their name, since that seems to be a good compromise.
Who knows. Maybe I’ll just start calling everyone “comrade”
Perhaps you should reflect on why you think bro and dude is humanizing but sis and girl is not
Easy. I’m a straight male who grew up around surfers in California.
This is kind of the logic that hurts me. People like me will express that those terms make them uncomfortable, but someone will argue that they’ll use gendered words with the intent to be gender neutral. But like…it’s not very empathetic to disregard someone’s feelings because using ‘girl’ is uncomfortable. It’s kind of putting your feelings above there’s. If you have the opportunity to be kind and affirming, to make someone feel safe and comfortable in the world, why not embrace that? A simple change in your language could make someone’s entire day.
Nobody (including you) should put other peoples’ feeling above your own, as that is an extremely unhealthy thing to do. Being considerate of someone’s feelings and sacrificing your own feelings for someone else are two very different things.
The people I talk to don’t mind the way I talk, and that is how I judge my language. I also make sure that I give them the environment necessary to express their discomfort with my language if they have any.
Do you have any non-gendered alternatives to “dude” and “bro?”
Nobody (including you) should put other peoples’ feeling above your own
I kinda see where you’re coming from, but I wholeheartedly disagree.
You should never put your needs below anyone else’s, but I’d argue that it’s very healthy to mildly inconvenience yourself in order to avoid majorly inconveniencing or hurting others. In fact I’d say that’s kind of the entire cornersone of human civilization.
Yes, and every time someone is bothered by my language, I change my language specifically for them, like how I call my transfem friends by their name instead of saying “dude”, etc.
I appreciate your sense of trying to do right, but you should really not degender people, as that’s a thing that transphobes do when trying to not be seen as a transphobe. Degendering is very similar to misgendering, btw, in that it doesn’t respect the person’s pronouns, and thus is attempting to discredit their gender.
If you’re truly gender-abolitionist and (I will optimistically assume) race-abolitionist, and don’t want to have gender be part of you, congruently, maybe don’t use dude or bro at all anymore? Would you kiss a dude or a bro? Or did that question make you mentally imagine a masculine person?
I dunno. If I met a person in real life that truly never used he or she pronouns, and included me in that, I would probably be okay with it. But if they weren’t consistent and they just used it around me or with other trans people, I would have a huge problem with it. Because the crux of the problem would be whether or not they are truly trying to change everything, or if they just cannot see me as a woman and are trying not to be hurtful without trying to understand.
I notice a lot of corporate-like personalities try to do this by hedging their language. It always feels spineless and shitty, they are NOT trying to change everything, they’re just trying to manipulate everybody so that they can HAVE everything.
If you’re truly gender-abolitionist and (I will optimistically assume) race-abolitionist, and don’t want to have gender be part of you, congruently, maybe don’t use dude or bro at all anymore?
Gender, race, nationality, and country abolishionist.
I would love an alternative, but the colloquial American English language does not have casual, non-gendered words to refer to people in general other than “comrade”, but I don’t want to call everyone a comrade because then everyone will think I’m a communist (I am, but I don’t want that to be public).
folks, friend(s), y’all, sweetie, sugarcube, partner, sport, buddy, pal, chum, sunshine, fam
English has quite a few
I find buddy and pal way more gendered (to me) than dude, tbh
I’m fine with being called dude, it makes me feel like a chill homegirl. But you call me “bud” and I’ll want to punch you.
Lol “sugarcube”. But yeah, maybe I should take a page from Canadians.
…Giving me flashbacks to that Mercedes Lackey book that tried to make “singular y’all” a thing, work characters in Appalachia. (I’m told it’s a thing further west, but for Appalachian characters it was nails on a chalkboard). 💜
Haha that was a lot.
Thank you for that perspective.
I am not very close to many trans people so most of my approach just comes from wanting to be able to be ‘buddies’ strictly plutonic friends with people of any gender.
I found for CIS people that homie was welcoming and friendly and more likely to get thrown around by everyone as its a little silly
I can appreciate the importance of recognizing someone’s gender especially if they are experiencing dysmorphia and I appreciate you pointing out that importance
Lmao it’s platonic. Plutonic sounds like you’re radioactive or something.
Also, dysmorphia is when something is “morphed” differently and it is dis-tressing, a la shape or physical attributes. Like seeing yourself as overweight when you’re not, or obsessing over your nose being too big or too small. In usually unhealthy, obsessive, and inaccurate ways. Think: anorexia.
Dysphoria is the opposite of euphoria. It’s very different. When somebody has gender dysphoria, it’s a fundamental opposite-of-euphoria about ones gender. Trans women do not want to be men (because they’re women), trans men do not want to be women (because they’re men), and enbies don’t want to be whatever it is they don’t want to be (because they are actually chaos and you should definitely go on that journey with them, I guarantee it’ll be interesting .).
All LGBT and queerness and liberalism is doing is trying to make the world suck less for people who are actually different. It’s not some weird, alternative lifestyle crazy people. It’s just that some people didn’t fit into the stupid little boxes enough (trust me, nobody fully fits into them) that they said “fuck you and your little boxes, this is stupid and I’ve had enough. Why do we even have these stupid little boxes anyway?” And proceeded to examine why, and what they found was a deeper and deeper and deeper rabbit hole of bullshit that infected everybody’s brains and was hurting EVERYBODY needlessly and only served the billionaires and the string pullers of society at the top and was in various forms around the world, perpetuated by almost all religions and, while having various times in history where it was seen and less an issue, keeps having resurgences because it is so fundamental dismantling of so many tools of control that the billionaires fear.
It’s like, seeing through all of it (the bullshit) leads to asking too many questions about our existence and fundamental social structures, which leads to loss of power for the billionaires over generations.
Why DO they fear trans women so much?
I work as a bartender and call the most feminine cis gendered women the world has ever seen bro, brother, mate and man. I don’t even want to do it and always feel embarrassed afterwards I’m just a chronic bruh poster.
I was working at this fancy upscale botanical garden and instead of greeting the patron with a very formal “Hello, welcome!” I said “Sup?” with the chin up and everything…
I died a little inside that day.
Wassup!
Awww!! Thanks! ☺️
I use them so much, to me theyre gender neutral terms.
doesn’t matter if it isn’t to whoever you are referring to.
What I did was a mental find+replace. Find ‘bro,’ replace with ‘friend.’
Oh, I like this. Americans should all convert to Canadian out of distaste for what’s going on in America.
Lol this does insinuate that previously, Canadians were less desirable hahahaha I love you Canadians but I’ll never get tired of teasing youuuuuu <3<3<3
holy shit same except fren and sis maybe fren is instead of dude or man and sis is specifically bro
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Me being transfem and suddenly using these more often because my brain hurts and my boobs hurt 😭
Is it weird that I’m a Trans girl and I still use dude like so much?
And yet when other people use it for me, I feel like I have to ask how they meant it 😅
6 months in and I still misgender myself sometimes lol. It definitely isn’t a super easy switchover after decades of using something else.
It’s a little inconsistent, but don’t beat yourself up too much. Language is complicated and slow to change, same as our usage of it.
but don’t beat yourself up too much
Oh don’t worry, that wasn’t the spirit of my comment at all. If anything, I started using dude after my egg cracked. It fits with the chill, tomboyish image I have of myself.
I feel that, it was drilled into me in the 90s and I just it for most people as well.
Neuroplasticity is a thing, but it takes time and vigilance for changes to happen.
Oh I don’t see it as a bad thing. I’m just saying it’s ironic.
dude isn’t gender neutral?
It really depends 😅
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oh yeah you get that with lemmy pro. if you upgrade to lemmy pro+ you get an animated banner for your profile too!
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You guys have avatars?? (I’m on voyager so idk what I’m missing on desktop)
https://www.etymonline.com/word/dude
Interesting suggested etymology, I’d never have thought dude about the type of person described there.
I still think guy/dude is gender neutral. Call it the Good Burger principle:
“I’m a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude, we’re all dudes… HEY!”
doesn’t matter if it isn’t to whoever you are referring to
Yeah I agree. At the end of the day I’m not going to disrespect someone by calling them something they don’t want to be called
Yeah for me, just she/her, thanks.
If you wanna borrow from old gang verbage, you can call me girl, I suppose. Like “whaddup, girl” or babe is nice too. Like… Maybe call me something sexy and degrade me, don’t nullify me by making me into a man. I would rather be a sex toy, a literal object, than be a man.
My closest gender neutral family member likes dude, if you’re in doubt just ask, they’ll appreciate it
Asking and respecting the answer is true big brain <3
Yeah I mean, I’m not calling someone dude or guy intentionally if they don’t like it. That’s just being polite.
Yeah I use all those in gender neutral ways. “Man” can start a sentence and not be directed at anyone.
Dunno, I use “dudette” pretty frequently with my girl friends (and I don’t mean Egg Carriers™, nor do I have something better than “girl friends” - initially wanted to go for “chick pals” as a snappy equivalent, then I started feeling like That One Creepy Uncle). Actually use “dudette” more than I do “dude,” it has a nicer sound to it.
As I see it, “dude” is gender neutral when used as an interjection, same as “man” and “guy.”
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I call women dude all the time, its become so gender neutral nowadays.
It’s not to everyone. Especially online, where people from all over the world meet.
It’s so forced that we’re kind’ve getting used to it. Tell people that think it’s gender neutral to “have sex with dudes” and see how they react.
It’s always just been about stubbornness and the unwillingness to change, despite being extremely contextual, at best. Force the overall culture before changing a shitty perspective of seeing your trans friend as masculine person that fits into your group of guys. It’s really toxic, selfish, and manipulative imo. And because boys are hot and I’m dumb and weak, I excuse it sometimes, but I really shouldn’t, we should all know better.
while it definitely depends on the person, language is a versatile thing. consider all the varieties of meaning simple words like “fuck” have. it’s not at all unusual to have words with conflicting contextual definitions.
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Can you make a blank comment?
I call my female friends dude/bro/man every time
Again, not a universally appreciated thing to do. Both cis and trans ladies from many parts of the world would dislike this
I see, well I certainly wouldn’t do that with a trans girl, it’s like calling them by their deadname so a bit disrespectful
Everyone I’ve ever talked to has been fine with Hey guys and dude in the universal sense.
