My first months on Lemmy were spent on Lemmy.world, which was the biggest instance at the time. I had no experience with Hexbear because .world had defederated that instance. I sometimes saw it being described as a “tankie” instance, but it was nothing specific.
After I moved to .zip, I came across !games@hexbear.net, which seemed to be free from anything overtly political and reminded me of r/Gamingcirclejerk, so I subscribed to it and occasionally made comments related to gaming.
Today I made multiple comments to a post about an article on the STALKER game developers having removed the Soviet symbols and the Russian audio in the remastered edition of the game. I would argue that in the thread, there were no comments from me that could be construed by a reasonable person as defensive of Nazism, fascism, or even hinting at it. For example, in one of the comments, I linked a Ukrainian law that prohibits the use of Nazi symbols, though I highly advise looking through all my ten comments as to avoid any misunderstanding or false impressions.
Conversely, one comment posted by another user dismissed Holodomor as Nazi propaganda, which I reported, but a moderator of that community just ended up calling me out for that and taking no action, followed by them banning me.
The thread containing all of my untouched posts is still available via lemmy.zip. My comments are also available for viewing via my user page. They are not available on hexbear due to the ban.
Hexbear is a septic tank of degenerates.
I’m certain it’s run by APT groups. It’s a front for Russian psyops, 100%.
What do you expect, it’s HexBear. They make ML look like neoliberals.
I align more closely with hexbear politics than almost all non-hexbear users. IMO, their politics is not the problem – they’re just an astoundingly toxic community.
That’s the honey trap.
They appear to be a progressive left wing community- very supportive of socialism, trans rights, big fat queer comm…then you interact and find out these are all just populist shoes they like to wear for kicking the shit out of people
I agree, and both their problematic hot takes and their toxicity are well-represented in OP’s link.
Elaborate!
I don’t really know how to do that other than to dig through replies from hexbear users pointing out how much vitriol they use. But in general, there’s a lot of name-calling (e.g. since you disagree with me, you must be a “white cracker,” “minstrel,” etc. – wtf kind of problem these guys have with minstrels I don’t understand); a lot of posting of flippant reaction images instead of actual responses, and so on. They’re clearly very angry about politics, which I get, but also have no interest in actually debating politics with any level of subtlety; even when I agree with someone in broad strokes but disagree about a particular item because I think it’s counter-productive to their own cause, I just get harshly told off. As a result, I can only assume they imagine everyone else is disingenuous.
Yeah, they’re the worst part of the worst periods of 4chan. I don’t think that’s where most of them come from, but it’s the same type of people.
The fact that they always support authoritarianism is just the cherry on top that makes them totally unreasonable.
Funny, I would’ve thought “the worst part of the worst periods of 4chan” would be all the bigotry, racism, transphobia, and that sort of thing.
It is at least bigotry.
Bigotry gets you banned from Hexbear fast.
Unless you wanna play the, “Saying Palestinians should have rights is antisemitic” card or something similar.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show
That’s a pretty unhinged insult tbh.
Oh I see, didn’t realize this is what it was. Honestly that’s so much worse than what I was thinking.
The term by itself goes back further than that, and doesn’t mean that originally. So it’s very “clever” of them to appropriate the term in this particular context.
Every time I think of how fucked up things are now, I am glad we at least made some progress. Although recently, things seem to progress backwards with all the shit going on.
Ah yeah, even in that thread, there were people responding with images or immediately labeling me a liberal without explaining or knowing anything about my views except that I seemingly sided with Ukraine. One person was very angry and needlessly escalatory with their “go fuck yourself”. Another felt the need to comment on my post history and try to use me running an Epic Games community against me. There’s a lot of ad hominem and straw man type arguments, which is usually indicative of not having strong counterarguments on the main subject itself.
There’s a lot of ad hominem and straw man type arguments, which is usually indicative of not having strong counterarguments on the main subject itself.
That’s every internet discussion. You skipped over the constructive arguments and effortposts, didn’t address any of their valid criticism, and focused solely on the shitposts. If you’re not engaging in constructive discussion, mods can remove you at their discretion.
Are you serious? If anything, I ignored the angry comment, the low effort image comments, and the one outright denying the mass killing of millions of Ukrainians (which was my reason for reporting it), but I engaged at length with the people who were making more or less proper arguments. I could have engaged with the top one about Ukrainians praising Bandera and remind the person that they should have a perfect understanding of how that works, given that tankies (which was that user’s self-description) too praise the adversaries of their countries despite Stalin and Putin’s track records making Bandera’s pale in comparison, but I thought that would be way too triggering, so I didn’t post that draft.
No, that’s not it. I am not denying that there is constructive and high-effort activity on the instance. But the moment-to-moment conversation is superlatively hostile, (at least when I show up lol), and I’m making pretty tame comments – it’s not because of me. I don’t anywhere near that amount of venom in other instances.
Start making leftist (i.e. anti transphobia, pro worker, pro environment etc) comments on .world or .shit and you’ll experience a lot more vitriol. At least that’s been my experience and the reason I stay away from these cesspools.
I get the same shit on world or other super lib instances claiming I’m a Tankie or fascist apologist or what the fuck ever if I at all question the msm narrative, point out democratic failings, etc.
Yeah that’s basically my feelings too. I wonder why they are so defensive. (edit: /gen)
I don’t know if this is sarcasm. If it isn’t, it’s because they’re supposedly leftists, but they have also been told they need to support authoritarian regimes who often harm people they’re supposed to want to help, especially Russia invading another much smaller nation (and fighting them poorly). They can’t reconcile these two beliefs, so instead they can only attack others.
Honestly the entirety of Lemmy is far left so for them anything not far left is nazi. If you’re not far left, switch to a different platform or don’t talk about anything even remotely connected to politics.
I agree with your point that “the ideas furthest from you politically all look alike” (aka political myopia), that’s why fascists think everyone left of an ultraneoliberal is a “dirty commie” and why tankies think everyone right of liberal socialists are nazis (no, I’m not one of those who say elon is not a nazi, he is, but for his own actions, lol). It’s just terrifying when you see a friend of yours imbibe that bullshit and suddenly call everyone they don’t like (including FDR) a commie…are they fascist now? :/
It’s just terrifying when you see a friend of yours imbibe that bullshit and suddenly call everyone they don’t like a commie…are they fascist now?
Nah it’s just far right and far left movements are similar. They do the same things to those with a different opinion. What makes leftists way more successful is their disguise. They claim to support very nice things and people believe them. But ultimately both of them want a dictatorship of their opinion. After all they’re on the ends of the political spectrum for a reason.
I don’t know yet, I’ve seen democratic communists, like Lula, who are a bit daft sometimes (e.g. meeting putin wearing his little St. George ribbon, somebody slap him 😠💢 , hard), but who truly believe in welfare, nonviolence, human rights and democracy. I even understand that he is unnerved and aggrieved by bozo’s foreign-backed efforts to destroy Brazil, but he’s also making strange bedfellows.
But I’ve never seen a democratic/“cuddly” fascist that doesn’t eventually take their mask off and the whip out…maybe Meloni so far (I don’t understand italian politics enough to get what damage she’s done) or maybe peronismo…
Well afaik far right movements are supposed to be aggressive. That’s a part of their views.
Non aggressive leftists may exist but from my experience most of them are either aggressive or look nice only on the outside and are easy to make show their true personality. I guess that’s the kind of leftism that’s by far the most popular now.
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The entirety of Lemmy far left? You must be an American. .world is blatantly majority centre-left.
Well in “far left” I mean “aggressively behaving left”. I’m not really up to date with the classification.
I’m not really up to date with the classification.
That’s actually not a bad sign. The whole ‘left’-‘right’ classification is vibes nonsense which changes wildly between countries and eras, and was never a useful classification to begin with. We wouldn’t be using those two words if there were actual concrete ideas they represented.
Further summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nPVkpWMH9k
Fuck that, I will gladly use Lemmy to tell tankies to fuck off. And if I get banned on some instances then so be it.
That’s my man.
Tankies are primarily authoritarians, not really far left in any useful sense of that term. And even though they are vocal, they definitely don’t constitute “the entirety of Lemmy”.
I’m not very sure about that. I don’t get banned on literally every community for being right wing (even when I talk about it) but I do feel hostility coming from everyone. I understand that their opinion is way different to mine but if they act passively/actively aggressive towards other opinions (not just me), doesn’t it make them tankies automatically?
I don’t get banned on literally every community for being right wing
You do know where you are, right? Did you get lost?
I always thought tankies are mostly stalinists and nostalgic brezhnevists, a violent and fanatic type of marxist-leninist who will crush anyone and anything to establish their utopia. They don’t argue much, it’s just aesthetics, violence and rhetoric, they are essentially red fascists. Most communists I know (which includes leninists, but not only) are mostly pacifist…but they will quickly turn authoritarian to tamp down any fascists and rich people who get a little too uppity, so yea, naturally, rule of law and property rights are secondary to them.
rule of law and property rights are secondary to them.
‘Secondary’ is being generous. They’d likely see them purely through a pragmatic lens instead of seeing them as legitimate concepts.
The core point of socialism is to eliminate private property altogether (not to be confused with personal property!), and socialist theory considers the current laws to be effectively dictated by the owning class through systemic influence over politicians, judges, mass media and other systematic pressures, rather than rules proposed or ratified by people like you and me, or for the benefit of people like us. So it makes sense for them to see rule of law as illegitimate, as a tool for the bourgeois class to maintain their dominance over the working class.
Yea, but I was thinking of socialism in practice e.g. China has private property…it’s just that it’s not an absolute right, it is secondary to some other interests i.e. the state/workers/etc look at what they did do Jack Ma when he started getting too elon musky for their liking.
Ah, I see, yeah I was just talking about theory and ideology, the behaviour of activists rather than governments, which can be much simpler.
I’d assume a tankie perspective (based on my understanding of historical Lenin/Bolshevik perspectives, plus the event that the name ‘tankie’ came from) is that their government/party represents the worker class, and that when push comes to shove, the most important thing is to maintain the revolution and avoid capitalist counterrevolution, so if that ultimately demands sacrificing rule of law, property rights, liberties and even suspending democracy, they would insist the ends justify those means. Their view is that there’s no point in pursuing ideals like property rights and rule of law if that means the government falls and those rights collapse anyway. So they justify pragmatic compromise. And what happened to Jack Ma is an example, they’d rather remove Ma’s rights than permit that amount of capitalist power.
This shit is much wider than just hexbear. The lemmy creator himself is leftist and has pro communist essays on his github
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/dessalines_marxism_study_plan.md
This is atrocious.
What’s atrocious about Leftist politics? I’m a Leftist and proud of it. I want free healthcare for everyone with guaranteed shelter and access to sustenance. How atrocious of me.
It’s more their support of authoritarian states and policies than the communist thought that I take issue with, personally.
Communism itself is broken as fuck and produces authoritarian governments at best, and totalitarian regimes at worst. All these states are universally impoverished and abusing basic human rights
No it isn’t.
All these states are universally impoverished and abusing basic human rights
As opposed to capitalist states, which are wealthy because a small handful of powerful people have extracted the value from everyone else, by abusing human rights.
Except for the states that voted out the socialist systems in favor of the capitalism and everyone ther now lives in wealth and prosperity unheard during socialism.
If you had to live in socialist or communist state you’d crawl back to the capitalism within months.
i love ignoring the history of western colonialism to defend the ‘free market’!
its actually because We Liberals™ defend freedom that we are so rich!
Honestly the actual socialist states, the Scandinavian ones. Tend to be some of the happiest and highest rated on the planet. Consistently even. Generally the authoritarian ones regardless of where they pretend to be economically are often the worst.
Honestly the actual socialist states, the Scandinavian ones
Dude, Scandinavian states aren’t socialist, they run on a capitalist economies. Who told you that they are? Where’s the source of these claims?
Technically we are both correct. But you’re still wrong. Not surprising since you cannot actually accurately describe what capitalism, socialism, or communism is.
capaitalism is a strawman invented by Marix. What those states are is liberal (not to be confused with what the media calls liberal today), which means they support freedoms “life, liberty, and property”. Capaitalism is not the defining feature it is a derived feature from freedom of property. Liberal states are capitalist in pursuit of their freedom journey. Communism only allows freedoms if they don’t conflict with their communism journey.
Despite your cliams, the average person in “capitalism” is much richer than in every other system.
I once tried explaining to these people that capitalism is natural result of any framework that strongly supports private property and freedom, but it only triggers them into emotional or aggressive responses
It’s a fact that private ownership exists under Communism.
Except it doesn’t - communism postulates abolishment of money and private property
It only supports freedom from the government. It then leaves a power vacuum which is filled by the wealthiest individuals who exert their authority on everyone through the many companies they own or lobbyists they pay without any real checks on their power. Since it is much easier to gain more wealth if you already have some, that means eventually all wealth will end up accumulated in the hands of very few. At that point it will be indistinguishable from fueldalism.
I think communism could only ever work in a country that has a robust democracy rather than the dictatorships that tried it in the past. The problem is communism will usually devolve into dictatorship because whoever is in power will be able to use the communist system to never lose an election.
Communism will also never work because it has to compete with capitalism. Capitalism will always win because it doesn’t have the extra burden of taking care of the poor. Communism would never last unless every country in the world abandoned capitalism.
Pure communism or capitalism both have issues. The ideal system is somewhere in between. A flexible system that can be easily adjusted to match circumstances would be best. Democracy still needs to be held up as the most important aspect no matter the economic system.
Ah yes the wonderful “freedom of property”, which means “the freedom of megacorps to buy up all the property, and overcharge you exorbitant fees to rent because you have no other option than to be homeless”.
The capitalism endgame is that megacorps own everything, regular working class people own nothing.
Only the megacorps are actually free.
Blah blah, bad megacorps this, bad megacorps that… You know that cases of large corporations abusing power are exceptions and not indicative to the majority of the economy?
Dismissive of argument because he has no valid counterargument. Thanks for being such a textbook example of bad faith arguments online.
Did we just find the Blackrock CEO secret Lemmy account?
How are anarchists and anarco-communist restrictive in freedoms?
Capitalism was initially called economic liberalism. They’re the same thing.Yes it is not the liberalism in popular Western use today. But its not a straw man.
You’re confusing ML’s who are authoritarian with non authoritarian ideology like marxists (minus the lenninism) or other forms of communism. Arguably ML’s are only communist in name. Similar to how the NDSP for the Nazi party was not a socialist party - they just picked up a false flag because it was popular. And that’s often the problem with western teaching on socialism and communism - there is a massive conflation with what it actually is and what malefactors (e.g. Lennin/Stalin or so many other dictatorship examples) have projected on to it.
High five. 🖐️ I’m glad to not be the one posting this again constantly. Between the two authoritarian groups propaganda. It’s basically impossible to have any sort of discussion about it sadly.
Yeah I feel like a broken record myself. It’s tough because there’s such a huge population of people who have been taught ‘communism = evil dictatorship’ and not think critically about any of it, read any of the literature, study the history of it, etc.
I could go on but I am sure you know already.
Yes the whole noun versus adjective thing. Communists aren’t communist. And their faces go blank as a dial tone plays in their head.
Not sure you know where you are but just bc we ain’t tankies doesn’t mean we bootlick capital over here lmao
And yet he created this platform for us to use…I don’t agree with a lot of his politics, but I respect what he is doing (until the day someone provably reports some sneaky backdoor, doxxing IPs, serving private data to hostile states, undermining dissenting instances or other things like that)
I mean, their name and description say it all. They appear to fuse two rather telling themes:
1- “Hex” : as in the fraudulent cryptocurrency scheme launched by Richard Heart (real name: Richard James Schueler), a notorious spammer and lawbreaker who ultimately faced the consequences of his actions.
2- A shameful endorsement of communist-style authoritarianism : essentially, a system that violates basic human rights while promoting a fully centralised, stagnant, and corrupt regime devoid of meaningful technological progress.
Frankly, if I got banned from a place like that, I’d wear it as a badge of honour, LoL ❗😂
Well, now you know why sensible admins defederate from this trash. I’d suggest using an app that allows you to block instances from your side and ignore them.
You don’t need an app, it’s a native Lemmy feature.
Only since 0.19.1, many instances haven’t updated yet.
That’s a year and a half. If you’re on an instance that is that outdated, you should consider migrating.
Getting banned from hexbear is your initiation into the broader world of lemmy. It happens to everyone who isn’t a tankie at some point. Wear it with pride
…but tankies are fascists.
The “red” part of “red fascist” is a fairly important distinction so you don’t give libertarians free ammo in their rhetorical war to claim all fascists are socialists.
Oh, I one up them by self identifying as a socialist libertarian.
Before they know what hit them I’ve already explained why pretty much all constitutions need a rewrite to be understood by the common man, why energy companies and hospitals should be cooperatives with stock ownership divvied up to the local populace and why Montesquieu’s decentralization principle should apply to both law, capital and that it hasn’t gone far enough for military or police.
I destroy their tiny little minds and they don’t know what to do with themselves. Seize the means of capital, my brother. Usurp the system from the inside.
It’s easy to get banned on that instance if you’re not sticking to the facts. They’re quite sensitive in this matter. Holodomor is Nazi propaganda tho.
Last time I checked, to be classified as a “Nazi” you had to persecute other cultures and ethnicities , and engage in imperialistic, criminal invasions of your neighbours.
Sounds an awful lot like russia and its supporters to me!
The Holodomor is a well-documented historical fact, recognised by numerous scholars and parliaments worldwide as a deliberate act of genocide against the Ukrainian people.
If you deny it just like that, guess who has just failed spectacularly at… “sticking to the facts”? 🤥
You are literally a nazi sympathizer.
how can i remove hexbear, grad and ml from my lemmy? i use boost app. thx
You can block posts from different instancs, but you cannot block comments.
I’d recommend you switch to a server that blocks them, like lemmy.ca, sopuli.xyz or discuss.online or use a different software like piefed which supports proper blocking (piefed.social).
In the app you can mute posts from instances, to also get rid of the users you need to use the webpage as someone else mentioned.
To mute the instance in the boost app go on the profile icon, lower right, settings (upper right), “Filters & blocks”, there you should see the option “mute instances”, type in the instance handle and posts from that instance shouldn’t show up anymore.
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Oh, what did Lemmy.org do?
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thanks. :)
Your Lemmy experience is about to get so much better.
After reviewing the thread, it looks like you reported a comment that was just contradicting you.
Yes, they assumed the community wasn’t ML and that anything genocide was grounds for comment removal
They themselves mentioned holodomor, no idea why though
Probably wouldn’t have been banned if they argued instead of reporting
Probably fits on: !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
Do yourself a favor and just block the entire instance from your profile settings. It’s irredeemable.
And now you know why most instances have defeated from hexbear. It’s extremely toxic.
Agreed, though I’m still not sure I’d defederate even after this incident. It may be best that we inform people of what Hexbear stands for and let them decide.
Incidents like that were not why they were defederated. Those were just the cherry on top. They were defederated because they would organize brigading on communities they had no direct control over. Ie couldn’t just ban you as they did. For going against dogma. Grad was similar.
The main reason .ml is still federated is because they don’t generally brigade. Despite having the same broken dogma. So it’s sufficient to let people interact with them and learn as they recoil from being struck. When the vanguard strikes back against facts and reality. There’s a very good chance you would get the same treatment there if you were to pierce the groupthink.
By the way, where would Andrew Eldritch stand on this issue? He’s certainly in the know.
My nome de plume is more lovecraftian. As a child of the 70s and 80s as well as a goth. I certainly know the name. To be honest apart from generally having a leftward lean having come from the punk postpunk scenes. I really couldn’t tell you much about his particular politics. I generally don’t look to musicians for politics. They are just people like the rest of us . Far more often than one would like only disappointment is found. Other than that, Beyond him being musically inspired the only things I can really say about him. Mostly stemming from is history with Wayne and Patricia. Is that he is stubborn, a bit dickish, but dedicated.
I generally don’t look to musicians for politics. They are just people like the rest of us . Far more often than one would like only disappointment is found.
Relatable! Though when it comes to Eldritch, it’s hard not to think politics with song titles like Mother Russia and lyrics about “another motherfucker in a motorcade” or “I tried to tell her about Marx and Engels, God and angels. I don’t really know what for”. And that makes me genuinely wonder if he’s as far gone as Hexbear or if he’s the more reasonable type (like you seem to be).
Anything is Possible, especially given his tenacity and willingness to dig in. Conversely John Lydon went from antichrist, anarchîst, with a tongue in cheek good save the Queen. To all hail good emperor trump.
Ouch.
If they want to guzzle auth propaganda they can get it from the tap and make a hexbear grad or ml account. The fact that you genuinely though a mod would do something about holodomor denial on hexbear shows you don’t fully understand what they’re about and why numerous instances already defederated ages ago.
Yeah, in my mind, Holodomor is not a gray area at all, even though I’ve seen my share of pro-Putin people from the West. One of the first encounters I remember was back on Diaspora. Funnily in relation to this ban, I’ve done a lot of research into neo-Nazism, but probably not enough into those Hexbear type views.
Just lurk more political comms there (and grad) and you’ll get an idea pretty quickly.
Nah, it’s pretty simple, America bad, tell me what else to repeat, RT!
Even the Wikipedia page is unsure, how are you so sure?
Wikipedia is not uniform. An article is as good as the active users behind it and the sources that support the claims. Still, on its actual page on whether Holodomor is a genocide, the summary is that it was real and had millions of victims, that most scholars at least hold Stalin responsible for it, that the EU and 34 other countries have recognized it as a genocide, and that even the person who coined the term “genocide” is of the same opinion. Simply put, it feels as though Wikipedia is trying to play two sides without really committing or succeeding in being convincing about it not being more or less clearcut
I think one encounter with hexbear is going to inform most users better than any third-party warning.
We’re witnessing the results of a first proper encounter here, in fact.
yeah duh, thats why we block the redfash triad
