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This is absolutely a major contributing factor, but there’s more to it than this. Everybody is lonely, pretty much regardless of gender. This issue hurts everyone.
And it is also caused in part because of how fucked up we’ve designed our society. It’s nearly impossible to make friends as an adult because
- we’re all working too much to have the free time for it
- there are (effectively) no third places where you can hang out with the expectation to meet people without the expectation of spending money
- to get anywhere you generally need a car, highways and roads divide and spread everything which makes walking or biking difficult
- social media is run for profit, not for the sake of actually connecting people
- these above issues feed into the issue OP is pointing out. If you are lonely and your life isn’t going too well, then you’re gonna seek answers for this complicated issue. And fascists are all too willing to take advantage and provide simple answers. It then turns into a self feeding cycle.
I’m sure there’s a bunch of other reasons too, but those are the ones of the top of my sleep deprived head. Even if all the above awful values men have disappeared, the above problems would still need to be fixed.
- we’re all working too much to have the free time for it
- there are (effectively) no third places where you can hang out with the expectation to meet people without the expectation of spending money
- to get anywhere you generally need a car, highways and roads divide and spread everything which makes walking or biking difficult
- social media is run for profit, not for the sake of actually connecting people
- these above issues feed into the issue OP is pointing out. If you are lonely and your life isn’t going too well, then you’re gonna seek answers for this complicated issue. And fascists are all too willing to take advantage and provide simple answers. It then turns into a self feeding cycle.
In other words:
- Capitalism
- Capitalism
- Capitalism
- Surprise, it’s also capitalism
- Don’t worry, capitalism has just the solution for you!
Yup, that’s exactly it. But where would we be without the myriad of problems capitalism causes?
I’m curious if women do have as much of a problem finding a date, and why the heck don’t they find the men with issues finding a date?
Because they need to sort through an unsortably large quantity of matches if using an online service, and women generally need to be reserved in public for their safety when offline.
I have never bothered with online dating ever. I just think of what an awful thing it is.
I dipped my toes. It was pretty terrible. Luckily I was able to find a partner elsewhere.
Not really dating atm anyway. Just trying kinky stuff in Lemmy NSFW to make up for years of being AeroAce. I’m absurdly skittish, and I don’t know if there’s much hope for me.
Best of luck o7
Ding ding ding ding.
On the bright side ive had time to use dumbbells between meetings and I’ve never looked better?
Also to add to the list:
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As third-places don’t exist without paying for things, more socialisation has moved online where intimate connections are not as deep as inperson so the connections are weaker and don’t last as long.
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Internet socialising has a tendency to form echo chambers and social bubbles so interacting with new people with different perspectives, even online, is more difficult which is eroding socialising skills.
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Dating sites and apps have capitalized on this loss of places to meet people and most of these platforms are controlled by a single entity: Match Group.
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Match Group are explicitly making the dating experience worse for both men and women because it makes more money for them and they have little to no competition.
It goes like this: women get overwhelmed by the sheer volume of messages and harassed on the platform, women leave those platforms, fewer % of women on the platform, men then pay money to get more potential matches, women get overwhelmed, and therefore the cycle repeats.
At least that’s my impression from the experience I have had and observed when asking my women friends about it. Not sure how the experience is for those looking for non-hetrosexual relationships, please comment below how it’s similar or different for other groups.
If that were true then the number one dating app would be Bumble because it only lets the women message. I don’t think anyone is being “overwhelmed” by the amount of messages they receive. No one I’ve spoken to has ever said anything like that.
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There are loads of area’s where you can get around without a car, which increases area’s to be outside and meet others.
For a lot of people including me it is a choice to use the car as much as we do.
Very, very dependent on where you are. You’re on feddit.nl so I’ll assume you live in the Nederlands. For… Most of the US, going without a car is either not really doable or you will absolutely miss out on going lots of places.
Really wish that wasn’t the case but alas.
If more people go with bike and/or walk you would have more infrastructure for it. Also keep annoying your local representatives.
Where there is a will there is a way.
Even in the US there are places that are inaccessible by car as far as I know. Then again some people in the US also have the BS abuse that wide bike lanes make it harder for fire trucks etc to get around ….
Oh we try but it’s a very uphill battle. Not to mention we have the loudest car brains all shrieking that “it isn’t used!” when talking about the 2 bike lanes in a city, as if they were even connected or went anywhere people needed to go (and they are still used by yours truly and others anyhow).
It’s not really a surprise when people don’t use it when they have to brave 40+mph car traffic to get to the bike lane right?
I keep contacting my reps but I’ve come to the conclusion that meaningful transit and Europe-like bike infra will just never happen in my lifetime. Sad but maybe generations after me will have it.
People forget that women can have like, ultraspecific preferences. Women above a certain age tend to be married, the rest not interested in relationships at all. Then there’s the Lesbians having relationships with each other. This still does not account for the difficulty dating as a man. I guess most do find a partner, but it’s harder, so feels like there’s somehow less women available.
I know a woman who prefers “dad bods”
I don’t get it, really. Maybe I’ve just been really lucky.
I have not been single for more than about 5 months since I was 13 (aside from a short window between 18 and 20 when I worked at an office full of people in their 50s and had no contact with anyone my own age). When my ex and I split after about 13 years, I had several flings between that and meeting my wife. I didn’t go looking for them either. I never once made a pass at any woman until she first said something obvious to me. I don’t do subtlety at all.
I’m not attractive, I’m not tall. I haven’t settled and been with anyone I didn’t find attractive or intelligent (only once, directly after the split with my ex, I was a wreck. She was pretty, but dumb as a box of rocks. I was projecting things onto her that weren’t true at all because of the state that I was in).
I am a musician in a small town though, and almost every girl I ever dated was deeply into music and it usually started from there.
It could just be luck, but I really do believe it has everything to do with confidence and being sure of oneself. I have issues, and a lot of them, but I don’t hold back and I never have. The people who don’t like me have an honest reason not to and the people who do don’t have to guess with me.
I have always been unapologetically who I am wherever I go.
I also prefer the company of no one and spend most of my time in isolation and I’ve still had good luck.
I’m getting older now though, and I’m a stay at home dad these days and more isolated than I’ve ever been. I would say that if my wife were to leave me today, I’d be alone for a very long time.
I’m not bragging here either, I’m not about that kind of thing at all. I’m obviously coming from a position of privilege, be it luck or whatever I have going on here that gives me that privilege. I really do think it would be easier for other men though if they’d find confidence and become very passionate about something that women can relate to. My passion for music has definitely, definitely, definitely helped me.
I even spent many years struggling with drug addiction, would not date anyone who had that problem in common with me, and I still found sober women who were willing to tolerate me.
I don’t know. I just hope that if you feel hopelessly alone and you read this comment, it will give you some hope.
Edit:
Don’t just downvote. Discuss it you bitter twat lol. Seriously. I’d like to see your perspective on the matter.
musician dating people with a shared, social, and popular interest
This is the secret btw.
It has a lot to do with it, but I’ve only ever been with one fellow musician. None of the other women played music. They just liked music.
What if this one nazi-puncher is gay? /s
Gogo nazi-puncher, also kick them too!
Yeah you’re right, I’m only alone because Im garbage, thanks for that reassurance.
Can I ask how old you are?
Mid 30s
You’re welcome!
This post is such a stupid take on a very complex issue. Most of the problem is related to economic-socio problem. If everyone can get a $100k/year job that solves a whole bunch of problems in itself. It’s hard to convince someone to date if we are only earning like 25k/year. Some women are going no thanks I will take a chance with an old guy who maybe divorced but seems financially settled. Then comes introverts/anxiety problems, etc. these dudes have a hard time even approaching women because they may get humiliated. Then comes looks, only around 30-40% people are tall enough and good looking enough to get chosen with no effort instantly.
Add all these and we have like 55% dudes below the age of 30 with no partner.
Fascism is a desiccant more powerful than silica gel.
So. Counterpoint to this, in that I think those guys should just keep doing what they’re doing.
The bar is so low all I need to do is show up on a date and not say anything racist and I’m in.
In fact: y’all should go even harder with the douchebaggery.
Agreed, I’m currently living in Trumpistan and all it takes is putting a filter on the dating apps to get interest
Step 1 and Step 2 are real, they just aren’t as shallow as the lonely dudes think they are.
There’s actual science on this that says women will get turned on by pretty much anything as long as they feel safe.
So like. The barest amount of cognizance of the objective danger women face, like, constantly, and a respectful effort to show by example that you’re not part of it (which doesn’t mean saying it, like: first off I swear I’m not going to rape you isn’t going to make anyone swoon) and you’re in.
I wish more people understood that the enemy way to make people think you’re a good person is to just be a good fucking person.
I wish this was accurate. There would be a lot less fascists.
I am actually going to be reentering the dating game after a little over 10 years. I sometimes wonder 'am i still attractive ’ but then I remember this…
I’m discovering that it isn’t really “am I attractive?” It’s " I feel attractive."
Like I’m down 100lbs, been pumping my protein and weights, and I got muscle definition where I’ve never noticed muscle definition before.
Clothes that fit, glasses I feel comfortable in. I don’t really want to “date” because I’m so much happier with impressing myself than trying to impress someone else.
I am a moderately liberal guy, and I cannot get any girls. I’m shorter than average and socially awkward. I’ve managed to get a few dates from dating apps but none of them went anywhere because I’m so awkward in person.
Most people don’t use dating apps.
While I am unable to find any scientific papers on the topic- I’m pretty sure there are several sources that show online dating has skyrocketed past any other form of meeting a new potential partner. MANY people use dating apps.
https://www.theknot.com/content/online-dating-most-popular-way-to-meet-spouse#ei-1748607854655
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/18h7k9g/how_heterosexual_couples_met_oc/
Yes, I think the “traditional ways” of finding a partner (or rather places) are breaking away slowly. There are more ways to stay occupied. More choices in events/clubs etc to go to. That gives more freedom in regard to finding somebody that fits greatly, but also reduces the pressure to pick from a small pool or to run into others occasionally. The pressure to form a family to just make ends meet (division of responsibilities/labor; shared resources etc) should be lower as well.
Yeah I remember seeing an infographic that basically said that 50% of partners are met through online dating today.
That leaves plenty of room for OP to find a partner in different areas of life
I agree, it does- but the idea of “Most people don’t use dating apps” just doesn’t track with what I have read, or seen anecdotally.
Seriously. Physical third places have been dying for years. Of course people are going to meet their partners primarily online.
If guy A meets someone irl and has a 5 year relationship and guy B has 9 hinge dates in that time that last a week then 90% of partners in this set are met via online dating, but you’d probably rather be guy A than guy B.
oh, yeah, but i think the infographic meant “where did you meet your current partner?”
that invalidates your argument, then.
In the scenario I described above 50% of current partners would be from dating apps and I’d still rather be guy A. Guess we’d need to see the actual infographic and who produced it to really say anything definitive.
The fascists go for a predatory numbers game, hitting up as many women as possible while hoping they find ones vulnerable enough to get roped into an abusive relationship. It’s a strategy that breaks down against women who socially reinforce self respect amongst each other. Of course, this isn’t unique, as fascism similarly recruits vulnerable men who struggle with self respect. It’s abuse and cruelty all the way down.
There are plenty of women in far right/neo-fascist etc. groups, and often people from those groups have relationships with other people from those groups. Your comment gives very much the impression that only males are fascists, which is absolutely not my experience dealing with Forza Nuova/Casapound people (both neo-fascists parties) in my youth.
I also see the male loneliness epidemic as an orthogonal problem to males being fascists, but that’s yet another topic.
There are plenty of women in far right/neo-fascist etc. groups
There are plenty of the populist Mango Mussolini type fascist women, but AFAIK there are far fewer in the out and proud neo-nazi groups. There’s this interview from this guy who was a neo-nazi until the mid-90s, and he talks about how the complaints from the incels now are the same as back when he was in. There were women in the group, but at a ratio of 7 or 8 to 1.
Yes, I am quite sure that in most countries the distribution of women/men within those groups are not equal and unbalanced towards men.
That said, being a member of the actual group doesn’t mean not being in those people social groups, accepting or even sharing some of their ideas etc.
So if I’m a lonely guy it can only be because I’m a sack of shit. Cool cool. Love that. Great for the self esteem.
Most of the people repeating the keywords “male loneliness epidemic” are, but that doesn’t mean you automatically are. You’re probably suffering from the same loneliness people of all genders are.
Even if a lot of the people spamming that phrase are bad it doesn’t mean that it’s not a real thing that affects other non bad people. They’re co-opting real problems to further their agendas.
To take this one step further: shitty memes like this one are used to essentially validate the feelings of the bad actors and the “manosphere.” Especially when the non-bad people try to push back and get the response of “yes, all men,” it just reinforces their stance of “people hate men” and pushes them deeper into the validation loops that the manosphere provides to them.
I have all my girlfriends on stream rn, ok so, Canonical_Warlock, so tell us, what have you done to further equity and resist fascism? Last six months is fine if you’re busy. But we really want to hear about the community organizations you’re interested in or working with. We’re listening and ready to fawn and cheer. ٩(◕‿◕｡)۶
Also open to any advice for people who might be basing their esteem on meme stream concerning more nourishing options!
(i am neither sarcastic nor a cop, but the latter can still read replies, so maybe… semirhetorical.)
Eh, I wouldn’t say so. I think it’s mainly because men are pushed to be more tough and much less expressive of emotions, which, for one, pushes them down those horrible alt right pipelines, but also makes it hard for them to feel intimacy and make meaningful relationships much harder.
I believe that gender norms incredibly hurt both men and women.
Damn right they do. Toxic masculinity means I can’t publicly express myself without this look:
Edit: down votes. See what I mean? Fascism thrives off toxic masculinity. The Nazi beliefs were that a man’s role was to make children to propagate the “correct” genes, and die in war. It’s a chicken and the egg problem, and we can’t address one without addressing the other.
I think it is at least accurate to some degree - but, sadly, both romantic and sexual attraction are subject to a whole chaotic mess of both conscious and unconscious factors, often out of our own control. Otherwise toxic relationships and paraphilias (using the term in the sense of fetishisations genuinely harmful to yourself and/or others) wouldn’t really be a thing.
Please, don’t be dismissive of a real problem just because people you (rightfully) hate are disproportionately more affected.
The “real problem” is that young people broadly have rejected challenging themselves AT ALL, about anything, and as a result have lost many skills we used to nurture growing up, like how to socialize and be liked by others and how to be charming and make others feel good.
Our real problem is a gnawing emptiness that people keep trying to satiate with online discourse and safe-spaces and discord servers where you can kick out and ban anyone who doesn’t align with your values.
As a result, young girls and boys alike are more lonely than ever, but it’s hitting men especially hard because they’re less able to fill that gap with close friendships and cuddling a best friend on the couch in a non-sexual way.
And as a result, they get pushed towards right-wing messaging, which makes others drive them away further, and society is just fucking CURDLING all over, and the more we bicker about it on the internet, the worse it gets.
The ‘real problem’ you’re referencing is that hateful young men are having trouble finding young women who share their values?
The obvious solution is for those men to reassess their values. If they can’t do that, then they deserve to be alone.
The loneliness epidemic is a real thing. Refusing to acknowledge it helps nobody.
We can acknowledge it, sure, but that doesn’t solve it. What is your solution? Force young women to marry men they don’t love or respect?
The real solution is far simpler: let these hateful men remain lonely until they are desperate enough to affect a change in themselves.
What if, hear me out because it might be a crazy thought, it’s not just the hateful men that are affected? You think nazis are the only ones experiencing male loneliness?
That’s literally the context of this post. The picture implies that women prefer men who punch Nazis over the 5 symbols used by men who typically support fascism.
No, this post implies that “male loneliness” is a thing only because most men are “douches”. And that’s just a blatant misrepresentation of reality which requires a deep misandry to believe even for a second.
Plus, it implies that loneliness is just a matter of having a partner. While this is definitely an important aspect, loneliness is general intended (in the surveys etc.) as being literally alone a large percentage of time, including not having friends or acquaintances.
I’ve noticed that there are a surprising number of hateful or broken young women that these dudes are not that lonely.
