I agree that she should run, but as an independent candidate because the DNC will never give her a honest shot in the primaries.
Americans however are unlikely to elect her especially due to electoral college as there are plenty racist and misogynistic voters in the swing states.
But if she’s able to raise money in the process to give her a real shot, US will finally have a viable third party candidate. If it looks like she’ll only split the Dem vote without winning, the raised money can be used to support progressive candidates in local elections.
Either way, I think US needs a progressive liberals party and soon because there’s a lot of House and Senate seat elections coming up and as we have seen from the GOP playbook, local elections are as relevant and influential as the national ones.
I’ll vote for her and split the dem vote. if the dems are hell bent on killing their own party, then fuck em.
unfortunately I don’t think that’s possible without ranked-choice voting. we desperately need ranked-choice voting in order to make more than two parties a viable option
as an informed she’ll split the vote.
it’s there a way to force a form of ranked choice voting?
she runs for independent, but the votes are for delegates that chose the president, so if she gets 10% of the votes, the delegated should vote for the other less fash candidat, while if she does get the majority she gets the presidency
on top of that, she can make the delegate vote conditional for some policies. so even if she gets 5% of the votes she can dictate the delegates to vote for whichever candidate signs a legally binding contract to do some prewritten executive actions on day one, like abolish Ice. release all imprisonment migrants, grant re-entry visas to deported…
so even if she only gets a few votes, she can have a lot of influence and power.
I just started thinking about this today,and I fear there are more complications. but I’m principle, could this work?
Yes, it could, which is why (IIRC) 16 US states now have laws that partially or fully ban ranked choice voting.
land of the free, laws specific designed to ban people’s choices.
was nothing real?
At a minimum splitting the vote would mean that they are coming from the “didn’t vote” pool (which has been the majority in pretty much every election for decades now). This is a strong signal that the DNC needs to move left or become irrelevant because a new party would simply split. For example of this working see the republican party becoming the maga party for that reason. Doing this will also add more weight to our protests.
yhea, the dems becoming right wing is what the donors want, but it won’t get votes
making the democrats a dead party, unless they tell the donors to fuck off.
Electors are not granted proportionally. If the Democratic nominee gets 30% of the vote in a state, AOC gets 30% of the vote, and the Republican gets 35% of the vote, all the electors are Republican.
do some states have paetial wins? if its 50% each candidate gets half the delegates?
Two states allocate votes by congressional district, but that’s just first past the post at a smaller level and the spoiler issue remains. You need proportional representation or some actual form of transferable vote to avoid it.
TBH, I got the idea, I knew there’s loads I don’t know, and choose to post instead of asking chatGPT. prefer answer from real people.
She should definitely run, but Democrat will certainly find a way to fuck it up, just like they did with Bernie.
Gerontocracy cannot be allowed to continue to dominate Democratic party primaries
As a non-American, electing AOC as president would be the way to speed run the repair of America’s reputation internationally.
I mean this in the nicest way possible. I don’t really care about fixing our international reputation atm. I’m worried about stopping the country from falling apart first. We can fix all the international stuff after.
Most dictatorships are toppled by external powers.
I mean this in the nicest way possible. I don’t really care about fixing our international reputation atm. I’m worried about stopping the country from falling apart first. We can fix all the international stuff after.
This will be a rather gentle rebuke:
AOC being elected president would not only be the most direct way of making the day to day lives of all Americans better, it would be the quickest route to restoring America’s status on the world stage. It would all happen simultaneously.
I agree but the issue is her actually winning. I feel like america broadly is still too racist and too sexist to elect her. Obviously I would love to fix both simultaneously but I’m trying to be realistic with the info we have now. Maybe something changes between now and then and I would be happy to be wrong but rn that’s kinda where things stand.
I can only speak from the outside, as Americans need to decide for themselves if they’re worth saving.
Ofc. I’m not expecting people to know everything about what’s going on here. Everything these next 4 (?) years is gonna be a uphill battle here. Rn we’re literally seeing policy that could lead to the balkanization of the usa. The ability to file a fair injunction against Trump is officially gone here. Red states will get preference from the courts while blue states will fight constant battles to get anything through. I am interested in repairing our national image but there very well may not be a nation to repair the image of in coming years. People do care it’s just that they don’t care enough to do what actually needs to be done.
No way AOC is getting anywhere near the Presidency unless there is a full scale revolution. Sad, but true.
Because there won’t be another election?
Also because both of our major party machines would cooperate in attacking her.
Neoliberals would rather lose power than signal to their bribers that their party isn’t bought and paid for. President Ocasio-Cortez would be such a signal.
The DNC promotes on the basis of potential federal level reps getting bribe money. AOC was a spoiler and is not welcome in the party because of her views. That’s why the Neoliberals in congress don’t care Trump is in office and even help him with appointments.
Neoliberals like Pelosi would lock arms with the Fascists and treat a President AOC like the threat we wished they’d treat their fascist opposition like, but they have too much in common on the same Economic policy they’re both well bribed to enact and protect from us.
Which is why, all the more, AOC is a good choice. The hatred of our true oppressors on Wall Street is welcome. At worst, it will further demonstrate that the American people aren’t permitted by big corpo to have a real choice in governance, only hypercapitalist robber baron enablers paid to divide us on social wedges as they legislate new ways for the owners to monetize sucking us dry.
She has no path forward clearing primary to fight for presidency.
You are, unfortunately, right.
Imagine a primary with AOC, Pete Buttegieg, and maybe a third younger candidate…
All could be really exciting to see advance, but they’ll split the vote and open the way for some stupid fucking corpse to win.
I hate this system.
Do they not have preferential voting in the primaries?
Is this a specific NYC democratic party thing?
I am not from the US.
The primaries for president are run differently. They’re proportional, but not evenly. There’s minimum amounts to get any delegates and then some confusing weighting that gives more delegates than simple division to those who get more votes. And then at the convention, those delegates can then vote for anyone if their candidate isn’t going to win.
So there’s a spoiler effect, but not nearly so prominent as FPTP. And the way primaries work, poorly performing candidates will generally just drop out. Not to mention “young people” aren’t really Buttigieg’s constituency. He basically tied with Bernie in Iowa.
This voting system does not spark joy (thanks for the explanation!)
It very much does not. I think it’s designed to make the nominee look like a runaway victor rather than to fairly gauge the opinion of the primary voters. They want the primary to come to a decisive end as soon as possible and the consequence is voters not really understanding whether it’s ok to vote for your favorite or to immediately start voting strategically (the answer depends on how well you think they’ll do). If it was straight proportional we could just vote how we wanted and if they didn’t win their delegates could still influence who did.
You are also forgetting the SuperPACs
fucking citizens united fucked up the US.
Our nation is too sexist and too racist for AOC to win. I’ll still vote for her if she runs.
Pretty much.
If it was just a feeling with Hilary, then it’s absolutely true with Kamala.
The excuses like “Kamala is pro-cop!” Or “Hilary is evil”, while it can be true, is also what sexists latch on to avoid being called sexists.
And for icing on the cake, a bunch of hispanic dudes voted for Trump and then are getting deported. Sexism runs so deep that it clouded their own survival.
Yep — because she is a woman, people with create reasons why they can’t vote for her. Hilary and Kamala were both fine politicians. Most that did not vote for either of them are just afraid to confess they’re real beliefs, so they just pick a narrative and run with it because it makes them appear more sophisticated than a “I hate women” statement.
Nailed it.
Sure, you couldn’t possibly wrong and support shitty policies. It’s everyone else who is bad and wrong.
The excuses like “Kamala is pro-cop!” Or “Hilary is evil”, while it can be true, is also what sexists latch on to avoid being called sexists.
You remind me of people calling anybody criticizing Israel anti smite. While it true that sexists would use it most people really believe that they can’t support them for their policies and priorities
“We’ve tried running two shitlib women with ‘status-quo’ platforms during a time when the public is crying out for economic change, and they both lost. That proves women can’t win, because it couldn’t possibly be about our abject refusal to rein in the billionaires!” — shit liberals say
Nothing to do with racism and sexism . Your electoral system simply suck. Hillary won the popular votes and harris lost by only 2.3m it;s nothing for a population of 340 millions
So one just lost, and the other lost because of the vote distributions were not in her favor: sexist/racist state electoral votes were needed that she didn’t get. I stand unrefuted.
How do you distinguish voters who vote against them because they are racists and sexists and those for other factors?
Because they are sexist and racist, and no other factor has ever mattered. They will claim all kinds of other reasons, but they’re lying. We’ve seen it time and time again: they’ll complain about something that a Dem does, but not when a Republican does the same thing or worse, so you know it’s all actually about culture war BS, which comes down to racism and sexism with the GOP.
You sound like those people who claim that anyone opposing Israel is automatically antisemitic. Yes, many anti-Israel individuals are antisemitic, but the majority are not. Similarly, while there are certainly people who didn’t vote for Harris or Hillary because they are sexist or racist, most people had multiple other reasons for not supporting them.
They all just took a year off with Obama apparently. The dedicated bigots already have their party. They’re not needed for Democrats to win.
I think AOC would make for a much better Presidential Candidate in 2036 or 2042, after a term or two in Chuck’s Senate seat. (Or maybe even as VP)
But, she is still a good candidate right now, and the next election will be crucial for the country. If 2028 AOC is the best option for Democrats, we should run with it. I would definitely sooner vote for her than the Next One Up for Democrats.
I agree. I want to see AOC have long-term influence over the Democratic party. We’re going to need significant reconstruction over the next 4-8 years, and I personally think she would be a bit wasted in that role.
That said, we don’t really have an alternative well positioned to run in '28 except Bernie, and I wouldn’t blame him for not running (or people being upset about another 80+ year old president).
Harris/Newsom 2028 because “it’s their turn”
She would have been better than tan Hillary, she was exactly 35. An establishment centrist was proven a bad choice in 2016.
I love AOC but I don’t think she’ll win. She needs to focus on Schumer instead. Rn the DNC is in a death spiral and is in desperate need of new party leadership. She’s the one for that. Newsom will likely be the 2028 candidate. Which yeah it’s gonna suck to have to bite our tongue and back him but if it gets us out of a maga dictatorship then I’ll gladly do it.
“Why AOC should’ve run for president in 2024”
During a debate, AOC would smash any Government of Putin candidate. The problem lies with the Democratic Party.
NGL I’ll take any blue tie but we’ve already shown twice that Americans might actually prefer fascism over a woman in charge.
Exactly.
Americans chose a felon rapist clown fascist over HIGHLY qualified women. Twice.
America is not even close to being ready for a female president.
If we want to lose again, run a woman. That’s the shit reality in this shitty country.
Not to mention AOC is still “green”. Clinton was a Senator, a Secretary of State, and ex-first lady. Kamala was a VP. AOC is just a member of the House.
People need to stop fantasizing and get real. It’s also WAY too early to seriously be talking about this.
Didn’t the Dems run on ‘anyone but Sanders’ and they propped up Clinton instead?
This is complete and total gatekeeping (actual sexism) bullshit that is frequently parroted but not actually analyzed with a modicum of depth, for one actually did, they would realize it has no bearing in reality. If anyone wants me to explain why, I will happily do so.
Have you gone outside? Americans (even women) don’t want a woman president. We are stuck in 1890.
I voted for the female candidates, they both lost. The gender divide in congress is 7:18, only 28% of elected federal representatives are women. Gen Z voters were divided along gender lines between Trump and Harris. I don’t know how to fix this problem, but ignoring it is not the solution.
This has fundamentally zero bearing on the actual outcome of the Presidential election; moreover there are many less female candidates seeking office in the first place. Yes, sexism exists — that’s not in dispute —but sexist voters were never in reach in the first place, whether it was Harris, Biden, Hillary, or Obama.
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A majority of registered voters are women.
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A majority of actual voters are consistently women.
There is just as much risk of women getting pissed off and protesting and staying home because they are tired for voting male candidates.
There is zero evidence a woman cannot win. You just can’t run inauthentic consultancy-crafted non-charismatic candidates, and BOTH Hillary and Kamala were. Mind you, the same holds true for men. Go ahead and just try to run Tim Kaine and see what happens, I dare you.
This made all the more clear by the fact that the vast vast vast majority of misogynistic sexist bigots are already a firm part of the conservative maga base —And so they were Never. Up. For. Grabs in the first place.
In Christianity, the bible forbids women from exercising authority over men in the church - they are forbidden from any leadership role within the church. This begs the question: what makes you think Christians will vote to elect a woman to the highest level of leadership this country has, into a position where she can make decisions affecting not just one church, but every single church across the US?
There is zero evidence a woman cannot win.
I’ve got a relatively small sample size, but considering the alternative I dont think its worth grandstanding on your soapbox for another 4-8 years just to trot out another losing horse.
28% of congress is female, 50.5% of the general population and their ratio gets higher in the average age group that corresponds to congress’. The percentage of people enthusiastic about a female president is down since 2015, a third of voters today say they are not ready for a female president.
We’re not talking about convincing a population of unbiased, nonprejudiced people. We’re talking about convincing a nation full of hateful assholes. A lot of republican voters will mobilize solely to keep women out of power.
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While those are two possible points of data, there are a number of other factors that contributed to each Democratic candidates’ loss vs. Trump.
- Both suffered from being establishment candidates in an antiestablishment era.
- Both were only really willing to push to milquetoast progressive policies.
- Both followed disappointing democratic presidents that promised a lot and delivered little, often due to their own party sabotaging attempts at major progressive reform.
I truly think that Democrat voters want real, progressive change (even if they find words like “socialism” scary) but most Democrat politicians aren’t willing to anger their wealthy Third Way/Neoliberal/Abundance/whatever-the-fuck-they-want-to-call-themselves donors.
God, americans are so naive. There won’t be fair elections anymore. You had your chance and you blew it! It’s over for your democracy.
It’s the Democrats. They still haven’t realized that the game is over. Nobody’s playing by the rules. Why would they start during an election?
So long as the donor checks keep clearing, establishment Dems are happy to play spoiler for big business and let Trump destroy the country.
Until the money is worthless and they realize they’re the frog in the saucepan.
It’s the Democrats.
It is Americans as a whole. 1/3 of then didn’t even bother voting.
They get what they have coming to them.
Yup.
Our system is fundamentally broken, but the bottom line is Americans failed. It was entirely possible for us to stop all this and we chose not to. Shit electorates make for shit countries.
We’re going to be circling the drain for the foreseeable future.
The democrats have handed Trump the country on a plate. As a non American I’ve been saying the American “Empire” will fall eventually, I never thought it would be to a fascist, and with a wimper.
It’s the Democrats.
It’s the people blaming the politicians instead of doing something about it.
But almost no one cares until they get ICe’d. That’s human nature for you.Both are happening.
It’s important to understand what went wrong so when you with on a fix, you won’t make the same mistake.
People can both bitch about politicians and also help fix the problem.
It is looking more and more like the election was stolen.
Edit: You are blaming Americans for screwing up the previous election becuase this next one will not be fair…when the last one you are blaming Americans for was already rigged.
there’s a reason for that.
Does it matter at this point? Seeing how fundamentally rotten every other part of our government has become is what’s really broken my heart. The president didn’t make all of these lawmakers roll over, the supreme court blatantly disregard the constitution, or these hate-filled minions put panty hose over their faces and go around kidnapping their neighbors. The president isn’t making people stand by filming all of this madness instead of doing anything to stop it.
She should absolutely run. I don’t know if she should win the nomination, but running brings a voice to the wing of the party she represents.
Primaries are about coalition building. And to have your ideas represented by the eventual candidate you need a champion to promote them in the process.
But, from the last election, we know some minorities will never vote for a woman. This is a big gamble.
I voted for Harris. I thought she was going to win until I saw all those minorities vote against her just because of her gender.
This world is not ready.
We absolutely don’t know anything of the sort. Centrist assholes just cling to that excuse to avoid acknowledging that focusing on appealing to conservatives and pledging to maintain the status quo is a failure.
This
worldcountry is not ready.FTFY
I don’t know if she should win the nomination,
Her winning the nomination would be Schumer and Pelosi’s worst nightmare. They would 100 percent rather lose to Trump than let that happen.
Maybe we’ll luck out and those two will be dead by then.
they’d actively campaign for mango mussolini’s third term before they let AOC win the nomination. fucking ghouls.
I feel like we try to shoehorn our political heroes into running for president. Why not senator? Why not speaker of the house, even? Speaker of the house is arguable more powerful than President in the democratic party - she has the power to shape the priorities and strategies of the entire party. Nancy Pelosi is probably more influential over the state of the Democratic party than Joe Biden or Barrack Obama were
An even moderately progressive speaker would be monumental, but unfortunately we the people don’t pick the speaker.
you guys need ranked choice. I’d bet on most red voters not ranking multiple and just putting their evil fucker pick as #1. then you need more than one non evil candidate.
Ranked choice is bare minimum for a democracy these days. Whatever ancient shit the US has doesn’t count anymore. Also get rid of the elected tyrant bullshit and upgrade to parliamentary democracy. Then go for mixed-member proportional for extra credit. Also get rid of voting machines and do it all on paper.
We tried. I watched rank choice requests fail time and time again, because people vote against it thanks to smear campaigns.
My buddy is in a city with rank choice, and after the most recent election, there was a push to get rid of it again. You can tell by who.
yeah my bad you need guillotines first
Ranked choice only goes so far when the electorate is batshit insane and willfully ignorant.
Instead what we have are Republicans trying to outlaw ranked choice voting… They’ve already had right wing media brainwashing the people into believing it’s a really bad thing…
Republicans are trying to outlaw voting. Unless it is for their candidate.
