• HubertManne@piefed.socialEnglish
    13·
    22 days ago

    What gets me is the guy. I grew up where you only saw this stupid crap coming out of the mouths of a guy like this walking around the seven eleven or the weekly world news and no ordinary person paid them no mind.

  • SirSamuel@lemmy.world
    192·
    22 days ago

    My experience with those struggling with their grasp on reality has been, more often than not, that they blame various three letter agencies of the US government, not “the Jews”.

    Of course, conspiracy theorist aren’t usually struggling with mental illness, but rather an overblown sense of self-worth and the inevitable result of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

    Insert a George Carlin quote about how stupid the average person is

    • ameancow@lemmy.worldEnglish
      81·
      22 days ago

      Conspiracists have been stranded to figure out their own chosen “other” to fear and hate since Israel stepped into the scene and the Republicans (and most dems) made any criticism of their genocide “anti semitism” in a playbook move straight out of internet trolling tactics.

      So you can turn your back on “God’s blessed war against the Muslim beasts” OR you can suddenly start softening towards the idea that Jewish Cabals are running our whole country.

      It’s been kind of spectacular to see the right splinter around the edges over this even before the Epstein stuff.

      Too bad none of it will actually make a real dent in a political ideology that is already built on cognitive dissonance.

    • Saleh@feddit.org
      252·
      22 days ago

      A lot of things that were laughed at as being “conspiracy theories” surrounding three letter agencies later turned out to be true.

      • SirSamuel@lemmy.world
        141·
        22 days ago

        True.

        What I was thinking of was more along the lines of “There’s a midget working for the FBI hiding in my attic and stealing my clothes while I sleep” - an actual statement from a woman who was hypoxic (and didn’t have an attic)

        • vala@lemmy.world
          25·
          22 days ago
          • MK Ultra
          • Cointelpro
          • Tuskegee Syphilis Study
          • CIA assassination plots
          • Iran Contra

          All of these were “conspiracy theories” when I was young and now we know they really happened. This is just off the top of my head. These are not really “tame” in my book.

          • glitchdx@lemmy.worldEnglish
            12·
            22 days ago

            those ones were “cool” and “pulpy” conspiracy theories (maybe not the syphilis one, that’s just gross), and made for good fiction at the time. What’s retroactively traumatizing tho is just how much of them actually weren’t fiction.

          • ayyy@sh.itjust.works
            41·
            22 days ago

            Counterpoint: the “Jews” didn’t kill Texas kids in a flood, the local Texas government that stole federal funds from the flood warning system to give bonuses to sheriffs did.

        • Saleh@feddit.org
          13·
          22 days ago

          “Tame” like conducting experiments for chemical warfare on humans?

          “Tame” like smuggling Cocaine into the US to help a Fascist terrorist group in El Salvador murder tens of thousands of people on the one hand and paying weapons to fuel a war between Iraq and Iran on the other hand with that money?

          “Tame” like helping Saddam Hussein use chemical weapons? https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/26/215733981/new-details-on-how-u-s-helped-saddam-as-he-gassed-iran

          “Tame” like the NSA spying on everyone and everything?

          “Tame” like the NSA providing information on US citizens to Israel, while Israel is conducting targeted assassinations? https://theintercept.com/2019/05/29/israel-drone-strikes-intelligence-nsa/

  • Makhno@lemmy.world
    107·
    22 days ago

    With how the western world/media is treating gaza, it doesn’t seem that far off that zionists have some aspect influence

      • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
        25·
        21 days ago

        Zionist is used as a term to make antisemitism more palatable, than saying Jew. ZOG Zionist Occupied Government is a pure antisemitic term for example.

        • Jankatarch@lemmy.world
          1·
          21 days ago

          Actually not wrong.

          Zionism is a nationalist movement started in 1890s but Conspiracy theorists use it for anti-semitism. In their case they think Zionism means Judaism.

          What’s ironic is that palestinians are a semitic group by both old and new definition. So “I support Zionism” is used to justify anti-semitism too.

          So from both sides it’s used by anti-semites.

          • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
            1·
            21 days ago

            Antisemitism as a term has only ever meant hatred against Jews. There’s no irony here. The very argument you’re using is regularly used to says that Palestinians can’t be antisemitic.

            Antisemitism has little to do with Judaism as a religion and everything to do with Jews as a people or race.

  • Allero@lemmy.today
    620·
    22 days ago

    Insert “Russians” instead of “Jews”, and suddenly that’s a mainstream position, not conspiracy theory.

      • Allero@lemmy.today
        26·
        22 days ago

        There’s a constant barrage of media pieces stating Russia covertly did X or Y, but for most of them the source is just gut feeling or some weirdo in a Telegram channel claiming random things on Russia.

        And suddenly Russia is a scapegoat for anything bad that happens in Europe or the US. And Russians themselves are often held responsible for it (but then Jews don’t answer for the acts of Israel?)

        Don’t get me wrong, Russia is an aggressor in a brutal war, one where my actual relatives are under fire, and it deserves scrutiny for what it does in Ukraine, and also for the confirmed cases of political assassinations and espionage. This shit must be stopped.

        But claiming everything on Russia without any investigation just waters down an actual journalism highlighting the real atrocities committed by Russian army and ruling elite. We need truthful stories, not propaganda, unless we want to be the same.

        Besides, holding Russians accountable for what their extremely undemocratic elite is doing is playing into Putin’s deck, as claims are made in Russian propaganda that Russians are targeted just based on ethnicity - and this becomes increasingly true as they get denied entry or asylum, and as sanctions pressure everyday people over things they barely control.

        • Stamets@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
          51·
          22 days ago

          (but then Jews don’t answer for the acts of Israel?)

          Followers of a specific faith are not the same as citizens of a country.

          And honestly I’m not bothering to read the risk of this garbage either. If Russia wants to stop being accused of crimes then Russia should stop committing the crimes.

          • Allero@lemmy.today
            34·
            22 days ago

            I mean ethnic Jews, not followers of Judaism - since it is ethnic Russians that are attacked and apparently constantly tied to Russia the country.

            not bothering to read

            Of course you aren’t. You don’t really have any stakes here, sitting in a comfortable bed in a safe country, not having to worry about how it all impacts real people. You just take a “principled stance” with 0 nuance and think you’re good now.

            My people are struggling. There are rockets fired at their homes there in Ukraine, and there are armed drones flying over my head here across the border in Russia, although on the grand scale of things I got to see the latter as something minor.

            I gotta tell you, one last time. Sitting here, and seeing Russians change, I can tell you this blame game is a disaster. People that just yesterday supported Europe and even felt sanctions are “deserved”, are now turning against it as its actions have mostly hurt the regular folks, and didn’t impact the elites all that much. These people go on to support, arm, and even join the Russian military forces. You can call them scum all you want, and so can I, but this could have been avoided, and that’s what I get to care about.

            At the same time, news attributing every disaster ever on Russia has further deteriorated any trust in reporting on Russia, especially among Russians themselves. This further fuels the conversion of people into Kremlin’s puppets.

            Whatever was done to further support the view of Russia as the enemy, and of Russians as the people who enabled it to exist this way, turned Russians to get more violent and united on the act of destruction.

            • NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world
              12·
              22 days ago

              I like it when Russians (pretending to be Ukrainian, like you) beg for the sanctions to stop. It means they’re working.

              • Allero@lemmy.today
                3·
                22 days ago

                I’m currently living in Russia and have Russian citizenship; my father is Ukrainian, and I’ve spent a fair share of time there and I have my close people I worry about there; my mother is Russian.

                Make of that how you will, I don’t pretend to be anybody.

                I’m concerned about my people in Ukraine, living in Dnipro - my uncle and aunt, my cousins, all of whom I love and keep in touch with, despite not seeing them since the beginning of the war. Moreover, it’s not uncommon for people in the west of Russia to have Ukrainian roots, or to migrate/flee from Ukraine to Russia, or to gain Russian citizenship in annexed regions of Ukraine, so my situation is by no means unique.

                Despite not being straight on the frontline, my Ukrainian relatives have witnessed firsthand the rocket strikes when they’ve hit the city, they are often left without electricity and other supplies, and on the other side they also know the horrors of Ukrainian mobilization (i.e. busification). You can be bombed in your house by a drone, or you can go buy groceries and be forcefully put on the bus directed straight to the frontline - even if you’re not eligible. Good luck standing for your rights from there.

                I beg for the war to stop, and I see what happens around me and how one thing ties to the other. Sanctions are meant to influence political decisions made within a country - and it doesn’t happen. Instead, it aggravates many within Russia to go against “the West”, because the only people actually struck by this are everyday Russians - people who, in the huge part, didn’t support the war in the first place, and are speaking up against it as much as it’s still even legal.

                Sanction military supplies - many Russians would support you. Sanction billionaires and the ruling elite - Russians were absolutely thrilled when this happened and will be again. Don’t show yourself as the enemy of the Russian people, though - because then, some of them might decide to “fuck over the West” by stamping my people with their boots, something they already do. You’ll be fine, though - it’s not that they’re gonna attack NATO - so feel free to feel righteous.

                • NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  21 days ago

                  You’ve spoken well and made some good points supporting your position. They make sense, assuming your point of view. But if you look from a little farther away you’ll see how misguided that view point even is.

                  I’ll make an analogy. You’re complaining that Ukraine is punching and kicking you. “Why does it hit me” you say, “I’m not the one forcing myself on her! I’m only holding her hands down while Putin and the oligarchs take turns. It should only kick them!”

                  If your position is that “you’re suffering too and wish you weren’t” when your countrymen, your work, your taxes, your silence all support the raping and killing of your neighbors (and even family, you say) you’re already starting from the wrong position.

      • Allero@lemmy.today
        2·
        21 days ago

        True, but only of certain instances, and from what I’ve seen lately 99% are pure speculation written in such a definitive tone as if it was proven beyond reasonable doubt.

        This casts a shadow on actual journalism, and erodes trust in many sources - sources that have real things to highlight and maintain a well-argumented opposition to Russian madness.

  • Etterra@discuss.onlineEnglish
    22·
    22 days ago

    See that’s why I specify “the government” or “the big corporations.” Also they’re not conspiracy theories. As in “the pharma companies could sell you a cure for a million bucks, or a lifetime of treatments for a thousand a month, so they’ll do both depending on your income bracket, and they will keep updating the formula to endlessly delay the sale of a cheaper generic that your insurance will actually cover.” Because they actually do shit like that.

  • WanderWisley@lemmy.world
    124·
    22 days ago

    Most conspiracy theories get very close to the truth before the take a turn straight into schizophrenia village.

    • CarrotsHaveEars@lemmy.ml
      6·
      22 days ago

      -Which platform?
      -9 and 3/4 platform.
      -9 and 3 what?
      -9 and 3/4 pla…
      -Alright, I’m going watch something else.

    • Demdaru@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      21 days ago

      Can you blame them? You are honest to god worker at one-person company hired by coroporation to cut down trees en masse and then you cut one of them and it goest bzzt and suddenly someone is speaking of illegal tree cutting and damaging state infrastructure…bollocks, I tell ya, trees are meant to be cut, if they didn’t want their fancy-schmancy antennas cut they should’t look like them trees!