“Liberals are the real leftists!!!” - Blue MAGA
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Democrats? Left? Lmao XD
Fr how do these people think its “left”?!
do a flip!
The only divide on the left right now is the the traitorous assholes - none of whom are up for reelection - who voted to end of the shutdown. Fuck you Dick Durbin. If I had you in a room for 5 minutes with a megaphone I would definitely so hard that your ancestors would be able to hear it.
Spineless liberals cant even hold the line much more than one month, in any collation they are the weakest link
So an independent, a dude that essentially went maga after a stroke, and 6 other centrist Democrats making a deal means liberals are “spineless”.
I guess we should all stop voting because both sides are the same right bro?!?!
The cowardice is significantly deeper than those six Democrats, its also with Chuck Schumer and the entire party. Quite frankly if the party had even the semblance of a spine than they would have purged many of these politicans long ago. The party should uphold an absolute basic standard and if we had a real left wing party than it absolutely would.
It’s pretty obvious that without an institution there’s absolutely nothing that will be done to stop the Epstein class. A large enough institution will include some traitors.
“Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend. It can be so, sometimes.”
Politics today:
-Far Left pretending they are normal Left wing, and everyone else are dumb fascists.
-Far Right pretending they are normal Right wing, and everyone else are woke communists.
You forgot:
-Centrists pretending they see through everyone by just picking the centerpoint on an arbitrary axis, without actually considering which side is actually correct
The “left” in the United States is much further right on the global median. The Democrats are barely a center-left party on the global political spectrum.
Traditionally, at least since the Reagan Coalition was formed, the Democrats have functioned as a Republican-regulation party, the safety valve of rightwing ideas. The Republicans have put all of their chips on the Reagan Coalition, which they know is a tent with limited accommodations for the non-white non-rightwing. Both of these strategies have weaknesses that we can see cracking open in real time.
The Democrats, by comparison, are a much bigger tent of a party, and regional pressures and interests make it much harder for them to break the mold. There are still Democrats that identify as “conservative,” if you can believe that, and a substantial amount of them, too. There used to be “liberal Republicans,” but that number has dwindled into near-zero %.
I’m not in any way forgiving these dissenting senators for destroying what little health care Americans have. If there were any time in history where any one senator could choose to go rogue and still get re-elected, it’s now.
Shillmer can go fuck himself
I’m wondering when the rest of you guys are going to realize that electoralism is a huge waste of time, effort and energy. Elections are a distraction to make us think we can effect change through the system. But the problem IS the system. There is only one way forward, and it’s through a revolution that abolishes the entire existing structures of power.
We need to accept this reality, so we can actually start the long process of how to achieve that.
I think you’re correct. But if so, that means a lot of people are going to die and even after they die, we have no guarantee that the next power structure will be any better.
Socialist states have had a great track record in improving living conditions as compared to previous systems.
Yes, absolutely.
My fear is whether Americans will choose socialism right now. I’m in a very queer, anarchist bubble and I’m not sure how to tell how popular this sort of thought is.
My concern is how thoroughly Americans have rooted socialists out of power and how all of our media will insist that we need more fascism, not less.
As the spoils of imperialism dry up, conditions are getting worse in the States. The task of socialists is to organize, so that revolution can be steered in a positive, unified direction if it comes to pass. We cannot vote for socialism without capital using the state to crush that movement, but we can learn from successful revolutionaries and modify what worked for them to suit our conditions.
Best synopsis I’ve seen, thank you.
The death toll of capitalism is much, much higher than any of us can imagine. We should aim to have the most peaceful revolution possible, but we also should be realistic, and I know for a fact that the ruling class aren’t going to go without a fight. We can starve them out, I believe, for the most part, but yeah, there will definitely be death and suffering, I can’t deny that. But a lot of people are dying NOW. And for nothing. We can at least die trying to make a better world. That’s something I’m willing to die for.
I want to believe that things can be changed electorally, but I know that it wouldn’t come from anyone near power currently. Mamdani is the greatest hope right now, but he’s ultimately going to be in an ivory tower. He’s also been very clear that he’s being elected to run the ivory tower of America, so I’m not downplaying neither the significance or his awareness of the role.
There’s no argument that Republicans have found a number of large exploits in the system that they are currently manipulating to “win” the US federal government. Whether or not such a system is theoretically capable of being repaired is up for debate, but it sure as hell isn’t going to happen at the hands of fucking Democrats.
I remember when
ObamaAOCwas the hope
Democrats are like half the left tho, so we can either fight prog vs dem, or we can unite to actually take on an external foe
Sure. I’m a Communist, surely we can meet halfway under a socialist platform. A politician should earn their votes, so it’s their choice really.
So unite with progressives. Or keep attacking them instead of the republicans your wing of the party just capitulated to.
Democrats are right wing.
I suppose you are both referring to USA politics: it seems clear that dems contains many different souls but I wouldn’t call AOC or Sanders right-wing, even here in Europe where we actually have real left.
Both pro-war candidates. Sanders voted to bomb like 8 countries, and AOC has supported israel many times with her votes also, like the iron dome.
The left starts at anti-capitalism. Anything other than that is right wing
Anti-capitalists working on socialist reforms are right-wing, and you oppose them?
You guys are truly destined for irrelevancy. 🤣
“Social democrats” are imperialists, not socialists
Don’t Sanders, Mamdani, and AOC call for socialist reforms in the US?
Socialism is a mode of production, social programs and welfare exist in capitalism and socialism.
Reformism is not anti-capitalism. Reforms are just nicer capitalism. There will still be capitalism and imperialism but people just get a bigger slice of the imperialist pie until the ruling class decides to take the slice away.
“People get a bigger slice of the … pie until the ruling class decides to take the slice away”
Isn’t that just the same with all systems?The state is the mechanism through which one class exerts its dominance over the others.
Bourgeois states are the enforcement arm of capital. When it offers improved conditions, it is merely a carrot to prevent you from taking actions that may jeopardize its power.
In a similar vein, proletarian controlled states can do the same, but the concessions go towards capital and the day-to-day ruling is on behalf of the workers.
If we want concessions that cannot be revoked, we must overthrow the bourgeois state and replace with a workers state. We cannot reform our way into a society where capital does not have near complete power.
In a state where there are neofascists like Trump, Mamdani is the left, face it. If you deny this, you’re completely ignoring political pragmatism and confusing the historical left with their actual political left.
Read Rosa Luxemburg.
Left and right are relative to the actual political spectrum of the subject. There are different approaches to anticapitalism, centrist on the left-wing wants to implement social politics to improve welfare, this doesn’t make it socialists.
Your notion is a very post modernist ideology of absolute relativism, which is an idealist unscientific notion. Socialism starts at anti-capitalism. Anything pro-capitalist is not left wing because everything falls under liberalism which is not a left wing ideology.
That’s not what I wrote but hey, nice sofism here.
They’re not saying that’s what you wrote, the saying that what you wrote was incorrect and they’re right
And this take is why Trump won. Congrats.
The right wing starts at fascism. Or so it has evolved to.
Vote against fascism next time.
Trump won with a sliver of majority support in a handful of states because of electoral college fuckery. Every state he lost could have voted against him 10 times harder and he still would have won.
The swing votes he won in those few states were people fundamentally worried about the same things we are. Childcare, healthcare, cost of living, and keeping their jobs. They had two choices, a man who had a plan, and a woman who said “look how not that guy I am!”
Trump won because he’s mastered the grift and the Democrats dropped the fucking ball, again.
Trump won because Hillary&co deliberately elevated his campaign in the misguided belief that he woukd be easier to beat
“Enjoy the camps” ass shitlib appeared again.
The right wing starts at capitalism. Fascism is capitalism in crisis, forcing austerity domestically when the fruits of imperialism dry up. Trump won because the democrats failed to meaningfully answer the problems of capitalism, alienating their base, and allowing Trump’s base an easy win, it wasn’t because of leftists sitting out of an election.
The right wing might start at fascism but if you look even further to the right, there’s neoliberalism.
And this take is why Trump won. Congrats.
Anything but enthusiastic complicity with genocide and capitulation to republicans is “why trump won” according to the wing that would rather have trump win than tell netanyahu no ever.
The left starts at anti-imperialism and anti-capitalism, buddy boy. Reformists are still right wing.
Bernie Sanders is not a democrat. He is the longest-serving Independent in Congress.
You have two examples of non-quisling democrats, and one isn’t even a democrat.
I can’t think of a way to gwt them to stop fighting us except winning and putting their asses down. They are rhe fucking enemy.
I’d rather they stand back and sit it out, but they cannot risk us getting any win.
prog vs dem, or we can unite to actually take on an external foe
This.
Started seeing progs refer to dems as “demoncrats” and now I legitimately can’t tell them apart from MAGA online half the time.
You are the epitome of the suppressed class war you constantly criticize for being in favor of in-group fighting. At least try to remember who your real enemies are.
Leftists support moving onto socialism, democrats support maintaining capitalism and imperialism. This is a fundamentally irreconcilable difference, and is why leftists opposing the democrats isn’t infighting, it’s just fighting. It’s entirely different from MAGA, which also wishes to perpetuate capitalism and imperialism.
And what about what middle America wants? The voters, you know, that we have to get? “Socialism” is a non-starter for people outside of NYC.
Middle America has a lot of unmet needs, with a horrible health care system and food insecurity. Most will gladly embrace anything that may help.
What many see as crazy politics is a desperate attempt to latch onto anything remotely promising.
As the working class continues to slide into futher and further misery, more and more are awakened to the idea of radical politics, and are more understanding of socialism. Capitalism must decay, so the task of socialists is to organize and teach about socialism, not just vote in lock-step with the right-wing democrats.
Loser talk
middle america wants the same things that leftists wants (eg healthcare, education, childcare, equitable living conditions, etc.).
the word socialism itself is a non starter thanks to the propaganda against it; you only need to see how mamdani was attacked even in new york for it.
Just unite behind us while we sell weapons for genocide and let republicans destroy healthcare!
Democrats are right wing.
Oh, yeah this is defo controlled opposition. When people asked for spine, they got jello.
No, the dems are going at their enemies pretty hard.
Yes we just sometimes forget we (leftists) are their enemies not the republican party.
Agreed. And are simultaneously displaying that the Republicans are their friends.
Not even that distant. They’re the same wealthy pedophile christofascists.
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Your “left” has a monopoly on dividing the left.
Granted, but that doesn’t make liberals on the left. The left right divide is primarily defined by the property question and liberals agree with conservatives on this matter making both of them on the right.
if you gatekeep the left, then no one is left.
Mamdani just won New York. That is good. We should not be critical of his efforts.
Also, his movement is successful in beating the administration. Yours isn’t.
Ciao
Lmao, the left are Marxist and Anarchists
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First of all, you’re not only wrong you’re also kind of a dick.
Second of all, people like you love to mouth off about voting blue no matter who, insist we support whatever Democrat shows up, even if it’s literally a Republican who changed parties to run for a vulnerable seat. Then turn around and tell us that any alternative to just voting isn’t a serious plan and we should all step in line. Which is exactly how we ended up in this fucking mess.
So finally, fuck you buddy.
In the UK we are finally beginning to see a shift away from the traditional 2 big parties, Labour and Conservative. Unfortunately far-right Reform are looking to be the biggest beneficiaries of this shift, however the Greens are polling ahead of Labour and they are filling in that huge gaping hole on the left that was created by Labour’s move to the right.
Not that things are the same in the US other than the two-party system, but it shows that there is hope and that people should not have to settle for the less evil option. Americans should not have to keep voting against things and they should be able to vote for something.
In the UK we are finally beginning to see a shift away from the traditional 2 big parties
Doesn’t Labour have a supermajority in Parliament? That looks more like a one party government to me.
Don’t we have a “worker’s party” in UK ?
I think Jeremy Corbyn was kicking around something. But “Your Party” seems reluctant to leave the launch pad.
We tried nothing and we are out of ideas. Also, don’t tell us to vote, we haven’t done that either but it won’t work.
How long does it take you to vote for “not Trump”?
A few hours? Still leaves plenty of time to work towards a sustainable alternative.
That’s the reason the left always fails. The right will have power struggles but close ranks when it comes down to ensuring the left (or slightly less right) don’t win.
The left always ensure the worst possible outcome by playing trolley problem at the ballot box.
Tell me you don’t understand how American elections work without actually telling me.
Feel free to explain it to me.
hey, how’d voting “not Trump” work out for you in 2020?
Liberals seem to have the memories of goldfish, which is how the Democratic party is able to keep moving steadily to the right.
How’d doing nothing except being snarky on .ml work out for you?
I left the US already - because it was obvious your ilk couldn’t deal with the GOP. I hate that I was right, but so it is.
It’s worked out pretty ok for me. For the rest of the US, not good.
I’m not American.
As a favour to whatever country has graciously taken you in, you should probably leave the attitude in the US where it belongs.
Oh, so you stupidly just support the US Democratic party for sport?
Seek help.
Oh we have accomplished things buddy. Trump is simply exposing American politics for whole world to see.
It’s a shitshow
Not that I have seen any “keep voting blue” lib put forth any plan other than “keep voting blue no matter who and eventually they’ll run a candidate that isn’t dogshit because…” but the DSA and PSL are actually doing something and the way zohran got the establishment spooked its not negligible.
Not in this thread: a serious plan by the high and mighty “progressives” to actually accomplish anything
I gotta say, didn’t the DSA just post up the next New York Mayor? And didn’t he have a laundry list of really popular reforms that the Strong Mayorship of the city effectively hands him a blank check to implement?
Meanwhile, over in Minnesota, the state declared itself a “Trans Refuge” by preventing out-of-state laws from interfering in the practice of gender-affirming health care. In Virginia, the sweep of the state legislature brings the local Ds (who had uniformly supported a trio of constitutional amendments to guarantee Virginians’ right to abortion care, automatically restore voting rights to disenfranchised felons and remove an antiquated law banning same-sex marriage) into a majority needed for their passage.
And that’s before we get into all the progressive ballot amendments - from raising the minimum wage to ending felony disenfranchisement to abolishing the archaic FPTP voting system - that have succeeded in states as blue as California and as red as Florida.
What’s all this about progressives not actually accomplishing anything? Seems like they’re the only ones serious about setting policy.
