For example workplace harrasment by women towards males like touching or groping being ignored because the victim is male but if it where to happen to a woman by a male the male would be fired
doing oppositely gendered activities.
my girlfriend can change the oil in her car and lifts weights?
cool. healthy.
i can sew my own clothes and bake?
Weird. Creepy.
OK there are some “feminine activities” where people would bat an eye but sewing and baking? Lmao I don’t think anyone would care.
Except if you fuck up making cookies, like me last week 😭
haha, woo! those are some hockey pucks!
i get eyes a-fluttering anytime either is brought up, but it’s good you have faith in your community.
I sew and bake and no one ever says anything negative about it. It’s usually a topic of conversation. And back in the day when I had been called gay for enjoying baking by some insecure guy or weirdo girl I just laughed it off. Because it was usually after they finished eating a delicious treat I made and brought into the office or something.
No one thinks it’s creepy for a guy to sew and bake.
no one you know.
that’s nice, really.
Anyone who would think that would not be worth my time. I would never give them that power over me.
You’d be surprised how hard it is to get on in life if you’re surrounded by people like this, you can’t just ignore half the people around you all the time, especially if you’re forced to interact with them.
that’s good, they’re not.
and you shouldn’t.
People who think that are creepy and weird.
They are also the majority.
I don’t think that’s exactly true. As a woman I’ve had situations where I was questioned even when I knew exactly what I was talking about just because it was a traditionally male activity.
Yes, I know what type of battery I want for my car. Yes, I know it’s uncommon, I checked if you had it in your website before I came here. Yes, I know how to install it and I don’t want to pay you to do it. Shut up and take my money so I can leave.
I have several stories like this. In home renovation stores men that work there are always super opinionated on the problem that I’m trying to solve. I’m just looking for the supplies I want, I didn’t ask for opinions.
It doesn’t help that I’m small and look young, but still they should mind their own business.
Are you sure those home renovation workers weren’t trying to make conversation, might even being bragging about their own project attempts and you being a women had nothing to do with how they interact with any other customer?
I can never be sure, I’m not inside their heads, but I don’t remember ever seeing this behavior directed at my husband or dad when tagging along with them in similar situations.
Probably mostly to do with being a woman, though even if a nerdy looking dude came in they’d probably get similar treatment. Partially just how they expect someone who “knows what they’re doing” to look like (mechanics knowledge = man in jeans)
Also, it’s not just targeted at people perceived as “other” in many of these traditionally masculine realms.
Often, it seems like so many of these men see patronizing and second guessing as the only ways to establish and defend their own credibility on their given subject. It’s not just the “oh it’s a woman/someone who doesn’t look the part…I bet they don’t know what they’re doing” factor, it’s also that they’re a product of the culture that tells them that the most important thing is that they’re perceived as more knowledgeable than anyone else, and that the only way to establish that is to have their own opinions and views on every subject in the field, and then aggressively defend and promote those views while dismissing, undermining, and discouraging any views that conflict with theirs…or the people who hold those views.
And it’s not just big picture “world view” type stuff. It’s crap like, “which brand makes the best widget in your hobby?”. If they’re a “brand red” guy, they feel the need to not only let everyone know that they like brand red…they have to let everyone know that brand red is the best, and that it’s objective, and that if you prefer brand blue, you’re just a clueless newbie who hasn’t learned yet. If you like brand green, well you’ve just been taken in by their marketing. And if you’re one of those brand orange people, well you know what they say about those people…
No, it is. I had women joke and say “what are you, gay?”, then laugh when they find out I can sew. Have stitched up many a stuffed animal. The guys ask me where did I learn that?
“The army”
Oh, that’s cool.
I agree that men also get flack for doing activities associated with women, my answer to the original comment is disagreeing with the double standard part. I think it’s bad both ways and therefore not a double standard
As a man, I have never gotten any shit for sewing. But I do give plenty of people shit for not sewing.
Fix your clothes people, a needle and thread are not that freaking complicated. You don’t need to learn how to use it, just push the needle through the fabric, you’ll figure it out.
Sure, with practice you can make it prettier, but whatever.
I lift and I sew. Fuck that noise, you do you.
You gotta learn to sew when you’re constantly ripping your shirt with each flex.
i can sew my own clothes and bake?
Weird. Creepy.
Hard disagree. I wish I knew how (and had the time to) make my own clothes. And, who doesn’t love baked goods? These both sound awesome.
even just knowing enough to not consider clothes ruined when a button pops out or a tear forms would be nice
For sure, and I appreciate that.
They’re great skills, and if you watch a couple YouTube videos on making your own clothes, you’ll be shocked at how simple it is and how little time it takes.
I feel very comfortable sewing and baking, this is just the best answers I have for the question.
“Girly” things are ok as a career, but not a hobby.
If you’re a professional Tailor, it’s a respectable job that people seek you out for, but if you just like to sew…
Chefs are predominantly male, but if you’re a guy that just likes to cook, “what are you, a housewife?”
I guess it’s cultural, or regional, or just who you spend time around. Among my male friends, most of whom are straight and married with children, I don’t think any of them would even blink an eye at either of these things.
I do have colleagues from other cultures and US regions (US Italian, Central America, rust belt) who I’d bet would act the way you describe. I’m not jealous of that aspect of those cultures.
You can find a used machine to practice with and start by fixing and altering.
Local indy sewing shops that I’ve encountered have been happy to advise and some have open sewing days.
I fix my outdoors gear and clothes routinely, often with hand-stitching, just takes practice.
Thankfully, I’m not completely void of any sewing skill. I can hem pants, or repair some outdoor gear, as you mentioned. But, I don’t think I could make a complete shirt that didn’t look homemade.
I have a massive wingspan:weight ratio, so I always have to choose between sleeves being long enough on a shirt that’s 4x too big, or sleeves that end 3 inches short on a shirt that mostly fits. If I could make my own shirts and hoodies from scratch, it would be great. I just have too many other hobbies, and not enough time to dedicate to learning a new one right now.
I have a massive wingspan:weight ratio, so I always have to choose between sleeves being long enough on a shirt that’s 4x too big, or sleeves that end 3 inches short on a shirt that mostly fits.
So you look like you just sauntered out of Auschwitz?
<rant>
You’re the reason why most shirts don’t fit me. I hate “slim fit” shirts, and anything fashionable is so slim fit you would have trouble fitting it over a skeleton or a 1,000-year-old Sahara-desiccated corpse. Why is your kind so common that the marketplace gets flooded with clothing that can only fit a famine victim?
And I’m not obese in the least. I just have a 50-inch chest with a 36-inch waist. I have pecs, not some wafer-thin slabs of barely-there muscle that would have trouble bench-pressing an onion scape.
About the only thing that fits me are 2XL tops that are regular or relaxed fit. Even jackets have gotten into the “reverse-vanity-sizing” madness that has recently beset Canada, with many “size 50” suit jackets really being a size 46 or even a 44.
</rant>
.
Disagree but upvoting because I’m sure this is true for some.
Yeah, I was in Costco buying new cookie sheets and an old lady said it was so nice that I was helping out. Lady, they’re for me, I’m the baker here.
Eh, if she’s old that’s excusable. Expectations were different back then
It took decades before Hasbro Easy Bake Ovens were marketed in the US in Yellow and Black rather than Mattel Barbie™️ Fuchsia Pink (💕) which is still the standard in US department stores. Curiously gender neutral colors started from demand in Sweden and expanded outward.
In the nineties, Barbie was built like only a select few Playboy Bunnies (Jessica Rabbit’s dimensions are physiologically impossible. A robot, maybe) and Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader action figures were ripped like He-Man (or soon-to-be Governor of California Arnold Schwarzenegger).
Gender roles are (to me) extremely weird.
I work in a company that seems to have mostly women in management roles and the area I work in has mostly women in our area as well. The things I’ve heard women say about men though would get any guy shit-canned within a day if he were to say anything like that about women. Women can straight-up say things like, “I hate men” or “Men are such assholes” or “What is wrong with men?” or “Guys are so stupid!” or “My husband is such a fucking idiot” or saying blatantly sexual shit about men that they have crushes on or find attractive. It’s just a joke to them, like whatever. Meanwhile, if a guy were to say anything even remotely approaching to what I’ve heard in our office, they would be gone like nothing, there’s just no tolerance for that.
And don’t get me wrong, I’m not offended by women saying sexist things like that or talking sexually about guys, I don’t give a shit, I’ve heard worse from other guys. That doesn’t bother me and I’m not looking to get anybody in trouble over it, I just want tolerance from both sides. What bothers me is that men aren’t afforded that same courtesy and aren’t allowed to talk the same way. Women can talk shit at work all they want about men because “Fuck the patriarchy, old white men are ruining everything, etc”, but whooo, if a guy says anything remotely out of line about women, they will be reported like that 🫰.
Clothes in general, I could borrow my husband’s shirt and nobody would bat an eye but I’d he borrowed mine (he can’t because I’m smaller, but assuming we were the same size-ish) would look strange.
I don’t think groping is gonna be ignored in any workplace, in any direction.
Groping is very much ignored in both directions at work
Huh? Groping is ignored much of the time if done by a woman to a man
In some workplaces it’s even ignored in both directions. At last, true gender equality! /s
Many (basically all) companies will completely ignore an issue until they’re absolutely forced to act on it, it’s pretty par for the course.
I’ve read enough accounts from both men and women to know that sexual harassment is not taken seriously at many places.
Basically everything women cry about men doing to them. If it is done to a man by women it is ignored or considered not real or never happened or okay and normalized as you put it.
So one thing I noticed is that women betraying their partner has become extremely normalized
- Every “ethical non monogamous” relationship I’ve seen IRL is just a woman pressuring their long term monogamous partner into a situation where she has multiple partners and she’s struggling
- “Monkey Branching”, where a woman starts dropping hints at one guy while still seeing another in hopes of making a seamless transition, is pretty accepted. Emotional affairs are only a thing for men apparently
- While it’s always been acceptable to leave a guy if he can’t “provide” for you, it’s really fucking stupid in the context of modern feminism
- Women who use OLD are often encouraged to have a “roster” of men, who they form a well beyond casual connection to.
- There’s a large number of 30+ year old women breaking up with their long term partners to “find themselves”. I put that in quotations because this usually just involves a ton of casual sex. It’s basically the modern day equivalent of a guy leaving his wife for the secretary
- There are a million different love triangles on TV. They are almost all two guys and a woman who is disrespectful of both. The guys get mad at each other and the women’s behavior is not portrayed as toxic.
- Like 80 percent of holiday movies involve a woman leaving her fiance for a man she just met. This is always seen as romantic, instead of psychotic.
In addition to all that, women are extremely reluctant to criticize other women. This stands even when another woman is behaving in an almost objectively toxic way. I moved post covid. The first year I witnessed a fuckton of toxic behavior, but when I tried to point it out I would get dirty glances from women. The second year there I ended up getting close to other women in those conversations who took it upon themselves to tell me in a smaller setting that they actually agreed with me, but they didn’t want to appear unsupportive.
Whatever the intention there, the mentality enabled a subset of women to be shitty and probably convinced a lot of men that such behavior was something most women were okay with.
It sounds like you haven’t seen any healthy ethnically non-monogamous relationships. That’s a shame. As a part of one, I’ve seen several others as well. It can work, if it’s done for the right reasons and if all partners respect each other.
You know it’s funny. I hear a million different accounts of ethnically monogamous relationships that work, but only on the internet where it’s impossible to get the full context.
I know it’s a typo but I’m cracking up at
ethnically non-monogamous
Hi, ethical non monogamous person here. My wife did not pressure me into this. The only other couple I know IRL that does this it was also the husband who prompted it.
I almost never meet women like this so maybe it depends on your area. I’d love to be in a woman’s roster but they all want monogamous relationships.
Trust me, you don’t. These women will often want the full emotional availability of a romantic partner from you, with a fraction of both the emotional and physical availability of a partner from them. They generally want a monogamous relationship, just from an emotionally unavailable guy who is very physically attractive. Above all else, they will not be honest about your “ranking”.
Almost any woman who is halfway sane and willing to use online dating tends to get into a relationship in like three months tops. There’s also a decent number of women who are either not looking for a relationship, or would like a relationship but think the apps are super toxic.
However around 10 to 15 percent of the women I meet are very much architects of their own misery. These women are extremely vocal, generally shitty to their potential partners, and can always find more partners due to the nature of OLD. The frustrating part is I haven’t met a single woman who calls out this behavior, and a significant amount that actually reassure these people.
My GF insists that most women are just trying to be supportive, and that they don’t actually approve of the toxic behavior in question. My conversations with closer female friends backs this up. However in my eyes all this does is enable and normalize said behavior. It is also especially frustrating because I’m 100 percent expected to speak out if another guy does something remotely problematic.
These women will often want the full emotional availability of a romantic partner from you, with a fraction of both the emotional and physical availability of a partner from them.
That’s a whole separate issue from women having a roster of men.
Idk about emotional availability. I just want a fuck buddy. If she can’t provide that, she’s gone.
That’s about you being able to enforce your own boundaries, bro
Okay so what do you suggest I do. Cut out every single female friend in my life? Convince my single male friends, as a man in a relationship, to boycott online dating apps?
The only behavior uncommon enough to actually get away from are ethically non monogamous relationships and straight up cheating. That’s 100 percent a red line for me at this point. Everything else is so ubiquitous that I’m basically forced to put up with it if I want to be social.
You just have to worry about being happy in the relationship you’re actually in and not project these feelings of disrespectful non-monogamy on to others.
It’s completely reasonable not to want to live in a society where infidelity or betrayal is normalized.
You’re projecting your own feelings of betrayal onto others. This is a you problem.
I’m had 2 women tell me they had this and saw one on OLD. Of them the 2 got so fed up of men and their bullshit. Started having activity buddies with benefits. One was my cousin so I knew the back story of her asshole husband. Other was a neighbour of a good friend.
Oh this is another thing. I know some women who are perpetually single despite heavy usage of OLD. I used to have a lot of sympathy, but at this point I’ve met many women in relationships via OLD, and the entire process took them six weeks. The second category of women weren’t “higher value” or whatever, they just had more realistic expectations and were less shallow.
“women are extremely reluctant to criticize other women”
You should listen to women talk more, they’re extremely enthusiastic to talk shit about each other.
I actually do agree with some of your points though, but on that point, I’ve rarely seen a woman reluctant to talk trash about another woman when given a chance (maybe more in he said/she said situations is what you’re referring to).
I’m 30 years old, and even when I was 15 I wasn’t really friends with the super mean girl gossip types. Throughout my life, I’ve been friends with women who largely identify as feminist and sort of reject those stereotypes.
The problem is that post #metoo it became normalized to take the whole “support women” thing to such an extreme that it enabled toxic behavior. While there were women who tried to pull the whole “it’s sexist to criticize me for making poor life choices” crap, other women would get super offended for them attempting to use feminism in that way.
It’s extremely frustrating that the 19 and 20 year old women I knew in college had better moral compasses than the 25 to 40 year old women I know now. That’s really not supposed to be how it works.
Every single experience you mentioned I cannot relate to at all. It’s really weird to read.
Cut bits of a girl baby’s genitals: jail.
Cut bits off a boy baby’s genitals: An occasion for a fucking party.
And old men can suck on the wound.
Say what ?!? Is this real ?
Yes, rabbi use to suck on baby dicks after mutilating them. Iirc a lot of them stopped doing it after giving a few babies herpes.
One of the early chapters in The God Delusion (Richard Dawkins) covers this.
One subgroup does it.
They also cnut it with a freaky pinky nail
My understanding is that infant labiaplasty and other female genital cosmetic surgeries are pretty common as well in western countries. Luckily there is a growing protest to these practices on ethical grounds, since they’re all medically unnecessary surgeries performed on babies that can’t consent to it.
This journal publication seems to put it into perspective decently. It also points out some of the racist hypocrasy surrounding it, like how we classify these actions being done by non-western cultures as ‘mutilation’ which is unlawful, while classifying ones aligned with our own culture as ‘cosmetic’ and still allow them.
Also to add on to this
Mothers showing pictures of their naked boys as babies, totally fine
Father’s showing images of their naked daughters as babies, people go wtf
I wish people didn’t show those images at all or even take them reguardless of gender
It’s fairly broadly believed that strong male influences benefit a child greatly, but males are looked at with huge skepticism if they attempt to enter most forms of childcare as a profession.
The fact that any point made in this post, no matter how reasonable a complaint, or how heinous it would be considered if done to a woman, will likely be derided and dismissed as misogyny, mansplaining, whining, etc, and all male participants in the discussion labeled as incels.
Incel
This isn’t a blanket statement, but I have, in the past, been introduced to women in my friend group, and talked to them like I would anybody else. But for whatever reason, they get the idea that I’m hitting on them. I can see it in their body language, the way they bring up their significant other (Like, really? I was just introduced to both of you 5 minutes ago?), among others. They make it out like “how could you be hitting on me?” and I’m like, asking about a band she brought up? I wasn’t even remotely attracted to her, I was just trying to be friendly, but her demeanor made it seem like she thought I was some insensitive asshole, and it hurt. I excused myself and just fuckin left. I had only gotten there like 20 minutes beforehand.
Another time I was introduced to a woman while we were helping a friend move. This girl I was into (she ranted about recycling <3), and I was planning on asking her out once we were done for the day, but as we were talking, she mentioned her significant other, so I didn’t. After we’d finished loading something into the moving truck, I said “hey so, thanks for mentioning your significant other back there, saved me a bit of awkwardness haha.” To this, she took offense, and challenged me, “what do you mean? what are you talking about?” like, hands on hips, wide eyes, “how dare you” attitude… and I was dumbfounded. Here I was, thanking her for stopping me from embarrassing myself by asking out a girl that was in a relationship, and I was getting the third degree from it! At this point I didn’t know whether it would make the matter worse if I confessed I had almost asked her out, so I just blankly stared, mouth agape (dumbfounded, like I said). I eventually excused myself and went back to loading the truck. Avoided her like the plague since then.
These were just two myopic incidents, probably lasted 5 minutes in total each, but it affected me in such a way that I basically cut myself out from the entire social circle, and only ever hang out with a guy friend that’s kind.
However, I feel the need to add a disclaimer so you don’t get me wrong.
I’ve also gone through a lot of personal growth recently, and in the endeavor to understand myself and my sexuality (Go Fightin’ Bi’s!), I’ve encountered scenarios that help me understand women better. I’ve had guy friends who only acted like my friend because they wanted to sleep with me. That hurts, and it makes me feel cheap. Once I tell them definitely “No,” or they realize I’m not interested, they stop interacting with me. It’s like, is that all I was in your eyes? Some thing to fuck? And even getting to the point where I’d tell these guys “No,” was excruciating! I don’t want to lose a friendship, or hurt them by saying “No,” I’m just not interested! Makes it hard to engage with my fellow LGBT peeps, when I feel like I’m just going to be pushed into hurting someones feelings. This led me to ghost some guys, and I’m not proud of it. That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate it when someone is flirty or compliments me, that’s nice and can be a real ego boost! But when I’m using all my body language to say “thanks but no thanks,” and you are still uncomfortably close? or touching the small of my back like it’s nonchalant or something? fucking GROSS.
Additionally, I have an elderly, disabled, female neighbor that I used to help out a lot. Whenever she needed something done around the house, she’d come over and I’d take care of it for her. She is an old pot head, so she’d even smoke me up! We’d pass a joint while watching Amos and Andy or whatever was on TV, it was a nice relationship. Then, once I became single, it got worse. Before, after I fixed her fridge, she wanted to give me a kiss on the cheek, and it came uncomfortably close to my lips. Then she started standing in the doorway while I came inside, so I’d have to press past her to get in. Then she’d touch my arm, leg, small of my back when I was doing chores for her. It got to the point where she would wait till I was high, and then ask how big my dick was, and if I’d let her go down on me. Just repulsive behavior. I’ve since stopped helping her, and always decline her offers to smoke, despite missing how we used to be.
All of this to say, guys get sexually harassed, Guys get sexually abused, and Guys get unfairly depicted as predators in hurtful ways. But also, girls get sexually harassed, Girls get sexually abused, and Girls get unfairly depicted as cold honey pots in hurtful ways.
What we should all do is try to be more kind.
The shit older women said (and did) to me when I drove a cab in my twenties.
Also, not wanting to fuck someone, even if they’re somewhat attractive.
I’m earning 1.2-1.3x what women in my job are earning, but when we go out to lunch, they want to split the bill according to what each person ordered. That makes me feel guilty, which is very unfair.
pay grade aside, do you mean that it fills that you as a man must pay the full bill
i am leaving this comments since your getting higher down vote ratio without an explanation for why
That is an intretresting view.
I understand, and respect the sentiment. However, in a co-worker dynamic, it makes sense everyone pays for what they order. I think they would feel guilty if you were buying them lunch. If my co-worker payed for my lunch, I’d want to buy for them next time. Putting a bunch of colleagues in an “I owe you” situation (intentional or not) probably isn’t the best idea.
I think you could offer to cover tip for the table and be within reason.
If they were making more money than yourself, would you expect them to cover part of your bill? I think most men would say no, you pay for what you eat.
For a birthday or something, go ahead and push it a little more, but don’t refuse when they return the favor (assuming they are decent people).
The fact they want to split the check is a big step from the steryotype of women expecting the man to cover the bill. You’re not their wallet, and if they treat you like it, run.
Thanks very much for the good advice. I think I will pay the tip in addition to my portion going forward. That should even the score.
No problem
If they insist of covering their tip; you can sleep knowing you tried, and they can sleep knowing they can pay for their own food.
This is a troll
it makes sense everyone pays for what they order
In my experience, the only time a single person will cover most of or all of the bill is when they are celebrating something, like getting a promotion or moving to a new team.
that or if they have the company card
(and are allowed to use it for meals every now and them)
In that case, they’re probably your boss.
Being held culpable for the brutality some powerful men wield against women because of the “patriarchy”. But also being at fault when women with power exploit or abuse men.
The problem is dominance hierarchy, which expresses itself as patriarchy most of the time.
But not always, and places on this earth exist where a matriarchic hierarchy is similarly asserted.
Obligatorily, no war but class war.
I find it hilarious when people get upset about “no war but class war” as if the sexist and racist systems we experience aren’t just symptoms of a heavily stratified society
No one calls a woman a babysitter or says she’s “giving dad a break” when she’s somewhere with her own children.
I’m about 30. I have friends my age with young (toddler) daughters. They’ve had the police called on them walking with their own child. I’ve had the police called on me watching their daughter for them (these are friends I’ve had for 12 years, I’m basically her uncle).
Men are assumed to be predators if they are near children.
I used to take my twin daughters to the park and we would have daddy day while their mom was at work swing shifts.
We had pizza at the park, and it worked out because changing their diapers on a shitty blanket was easier than fumbling around on a bench since no one thought to put a diaper tray in any of the men’s restrooms.
Had the police called on me a few times. Never did they take the call seriously after showing up. One female officer told a Karen that she is annotating this as a fraud call because anyone with half a brain would realize it’s a dad eating pizza with his kids rather than a kidnapper molesting children in public.
Mom changes a diaper? No one cares.
I think its the larger double standard; men are sex monsters. A woman and a man can’t be friends. A child with a man is in danger.
This is connected to; Intimacy is feminine. Men can only be vulnerable or gentle with their partners or families, if then. Its not universal, obviously, but the callous lover and the distant father are not so uncommon so as to be unrecognizable. Intimacy between men is also considered feminine, unless in the military or team sports.
It’s a world we created as well. Every double standard listed in this thread is a double standard. But it is also something cultivated by the Patriarchy.
If you’re a dude and your older female boss forces you to have sex with her under threat of losing your job, everyone just says “that’s awesome what’s the problem?”.
didn’t family guy cover this lol
I had a professor do this to me. Was an adult going to night school, in my last year. She was about ten years older than me and we hit it off in a way I assumed was a professional student/teacher relationship. Had this with other professors as well.
She told me to meet her at a hotel once, thought she was joking and when I didn’t show was furious. Told her it just seemed odd, and she told me she is getting another one this weekend and not to worry about it, but if I didn’t show there would be consequences.
Through a lot of double speak she let me know if it didn’t happen, there would be no graduation for me. Not knowing what to do, bought a pack of condoms and showed up to the hotel. “No, we aren’t using those”. And that was several of my weekends until graduation. There was zero possibility of saying no, and no one to complain to. I can tell the story online and that’s about it.
Holy shit dude. Sorry about the rape. Like, for real. I hope you’re doing ok.
Wait what? You can’t be serious! You did this instead of reporting her to the school?
Yes, I bitched on the internet. It was something that happened almost ten years ago, but it’s not like the school would have ever done anything. Let’s be honest about how this stuff plays out.
I’d have went to the police if the school didn’t do shit or threaten with lawyers. I’d escalate all my options since this shit is not going down with me
Dress code at work. I work in investment banking. On a hot summer day I have to wear smart shoes, black socks, long trousers, long sleeved shirt. Women can wear whatever. It’s fucking horrible
Go get the traveler suit from suit supply and some lightweight wool /cotton shirts, NOT the “performance” ones made of plastic. I live in the Deep South and I’m a consultant. This is so much better in the hot summer.
It does not address the problem at all. Attire requirements in big office settings are typically anti-men.
Yea, of course changing the materials of your clothes doesn’t change society as a whole. My point is that I work in an industry with a similar issue and have found a way to be comfortable, using fabrics and construction styles that breathe properly and are built to be cooler, mimicking some of the lightweight stuff that the women wear.
It IS helpful and this isn’t an anti-men thread, it’s an asklemmy about dealing with double standards. To be honest investment bankers work such long hours I’m surprised OP sees the daylight/unairconditioned spaces at any frequency to be able to complain about this
It wasn’t always this way. When I first started working in the early 70s, women weren’t allowed to wear trousers at work. Or have bare legs, even in summer. Women called bullshit, and the rule was relaxed in most places to allow us to wear trouser suits. But as late as the mid-80s I was chastised for wearing trousers at work. I had to point out that the then prime minister, a woman, wore trousers at work!
If you want the dress code to change, then lobby for it to change. I honestly feel sorry for men locked into their own notions of what they’re “allowed” to wear. I remember a friend whining enviously about how breezy my summer skirt looked. I suggested he wear a skirt himself. “I can’t! People would think I’m gay.” Sigh.
Also - men used to make an effort! https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5ec9401b929e439dacc2a56a/master/w_1280%2Cc_limit/Piepenbring-Codpiece02.jpg https://www.thecultureconcept.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/404448.jpg
As someone born in 1980 in Poland I was oblivious to women struggles with attire in the not so distant past. Thank you for sharing your perspective. And I love your sense of humor, those baroque outfits are hilarious
