It turns out that more technology in cars isn’t necessarily something customers want, and it’s not really improving their driving experience. We know my thoughts on the matter, but I’ll do my best to stay impartial on this latest survey from JD Power that shows most customers don’t appreciate technology in cars unless they can see a clear benefit to them.
JD Power’s 2024 U.S. Tech Experience Index Study evaluated over 81,000 drivers’ experience with “advanced vehicle technologies” in 2024 model year vehicles after 90 days of ownership, It turned out to be a pretty mixed bag when it came to what people liked using. There are a number of tech features that customers like using because they feels that it answers their needs, but at the same time there is a whole lot that don’t get used very often or are continually annoying, according to the survey.
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I’m ok with a decent amount of tech in a car. Like I’m fine being able to connect my phone to the car and have android auto take over the infotainment system.
But the HVAC stuff needs to be buttons I can access/control without looking or very minimal looking.
I don’t want/need my car to have a SIM card, or connect to wifi, and report what I’m doing. If they want to do that, then they can give me the car for free and I’ll drive it around letting them collect my driving habits.
Edit: Oh, and I’m sure as hell not paying some subscription fee on top of the price of the car.
As of 2022, Toyota still put physical buttons on their HVAC system and audio system.
I know because, against my advice, my wife bought a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid in 2022. I can’t tell her how to spend her money, but at least the car she got didn’t have some of this other bullshit.
Out of curiosity, why didn’t you want her to buy that specific vehicle?
I didn’t think she should have bought any car. Her old car worked. It wasn’t in the best shape in the world, but it was fine. And 2022 was a terrible year for buying a car.
That’s how you do it. Drove my 99 Crown Vic until the wheel literally fell off. Had it put back on and did another 80k on it. Traded it in at the dealer 4 years later, in working order, simply because it cost 80 dollars a week in gas, and that was back in 2018.
Yep. I had a 2002 Civic that I was planning to drive into the ground, but an idiot mechanic accidentally left the oil cap off when he was fixing it and it eventually destroyed the engine. The amazing thing is it took a very long time to destroy it. We successfully drove my car back from Baltimore to where we live in Indiana and several two hour plus round trips after that before it conked out on me coming home one day back in 2019. So I bought a used 2016 Prius and I plan to drive that into the ground. I just don’t need a fancy new car. I’d like to get an EV only because I hate getting gas, especially in the winter, and if I never had to do it again, I’d be really happy. But I don’t want one enough to get rid of the car I have now.
I drove the Vic with essentially a liter of burnt Hershey chocolate syrup for 3 hours on the highway, and then daily’d it for another 5 days.
Teens are rough on cars, but it survived.
Oh, the COVID-19 shortages? Yeah, that’s a good point.
Hey, at least she picked one of the most reliable cars on the market.
It’s a good car. I just wish she hadn’t decided to buy one in 2022. It’s bad enough to buy a new car now, it was worse then.
I have a 2008 tundra a coworker just bought a new one so I asked for a ride. It was nice to see under the enormous center display, the HVAC controls!
If they want to do that, then they can give me the car for free and I’ll drive it around letting them collect my driving habits.
I mean, that’s kind of what they’re doing in that having another revenue stream will reduce the car price relative to what would have been the case if they couldn’t do so.
If some people want to make that trade, I think that they should have the option to do so.
I don’t personally want to make that trade myself, though.
I disagree, most of these subscriptions options are all built in and “enabled” if bought. There ain’t no car manufacturers looking to reduce their car prices for us. It’s profit above everything
When carplay works, it’s great. But mine constantly has issues connecting to phones. Both my wife’s iPhone, and my Android. Both are flagships that are a couple years old, so still very current and sufficient specs.
Meanwhile, my old aftermarket Bluetooth radio connects every time with no issue.
I do like the convenience of GPS and audio on the car tablet when it works. But honestly, it’s a distraction when it’s being fussy.
Exactly my experience.
Phone dash mount all the way!
I love my subaru outback. It’s a great car. It does all the car things exceptionally well. It holds a lot of stuff. Snow, mud, fuck you it’s all pavement to me baybeee.
I fucking hate my Outback’s climate control, entertainment, map, and information screen. I understand newer models have improved slightly. It’s still awful. The only good thing about that fucking screen is that I can turn everything on from my phone. Literally every other function is awful to try to access and use while you’re driving.
Similar complaint here. We were ready to replace our 2011 outback and decided it would make sense to get something at least a bit more modern. Loved our outback, and honestly would have bought another if it weren’t for that damn screen.
After getting a gander at that thing, we seemingly confused (or probably just disappointed) our salesman by insisting we wanted the most simple, stripped-down style console they had to offer. Apparently we’re not the most common customers, but i know I’m kinda weird so fair enough. After he went back inside to find out which models they had on the lot that might fit that description, the only one that had a “simple” console was the base model Forester. It was just not enough to transition over from our comfy 6-cyl beast that just had a 6-cd changer with a 1-inch-tall screen and an aux jack, but everything was operated by buttons. Even the rear view mirror had a clever backup camera integrated into it. Makes more sense that way, imo. It was everything we needed and only a smidge more.
I really wish we could have just bought a newer model of the exact same car feature-wise… That outback was a great car 🙂
2018 Impreza Base here. Manual ac controls (where, how fast, how hot), but the touchscreen infotainment is still AIDS. Several seconds from press to recognition. I need the screen to actually do stuff when I press it, not leave me guessing if I hit it right. If they can’t put a faster cpu, they need to have programmers that can optimise these units so they run responsively. There’s no excuse for that legendary input lag.
Good car though, other than that.
Got a '24 outback late last year. For the most part I love it-it’s comfortable, holds my giant dogs and it’s way better to drive in bad weather than my previous car.
I’d read reports on subaru forums that infotainment was bad, so my expectations were low. But even basic stuff isn’t functional. It has gotten less responsive over the months (reminder: we’ve had it just barely a year). The screen has several seconds of lag with every touch, and sometimes controls just don’t work at all. I don’t like that we have to use it for temperature control, and android auto integration is clunky (though that may not be Subaru’s fault).
Add that to the horrifying data collection practices and it makes me question ever getting a Subaru again.
Is it possible to get some kind of firmware update that you may not have received?
kagis
This Reddit thread makes it sound like you need to manually do it or the dealer will do it as part of the regular maintenance. Not sure if this is specific to that model year.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Subaru_Outback/comments/18cjt00/software_update_december_2023/
Reminds me I need to update mine!! Did you have to take this in to the dealer to get it updated or did you do it yourself?
Dealer did that
What does the dealer charge?
I am not sure. It was part of my regular maintenance.
And
Does this help the PAINFULLY slow response in the screen?
Yes, it does! The lags are very short now, if there are any at all.
The people there are also complaining about the touchscreen instead of physical controls.
Hey good catch! I’ll try to ring my dealership to see if I can get that checked out during my next oil change visit.
Thanks
I just bought a forester a few months ago, and my 2 stipulations on the cars I was looking at were all-wheel drive because I live in snow country, and a car no newer than 2018 (IIRC) because that was the year car companies largely switched from manual controls to a 16-inch screen with everything, including climate control, accessed from an app.
When I was talking to the guy at the dealership I bought it from and mentioned how much I disliked the new screens, he outright said, “Yeah, a lot of people don’t like them.”
I stopped using Android Auto on my infotainment system. I thought it was just me but when I’m using navigation (Google maps or wyze), the second I lose service for any reason, it completely exits out and cancels my navigation. I found that if I use it in my phone, it doesn’t have that issue.
2020 Subaru Forester, but friends with other cars (VW, Honda) mentioned the same issue. Not sure if this has been fixes in recent Android Auto updates or in newer cars, but I’m not going to chance it anymore.
I’ve only experienced real issues when out of network coverage for a long time.
I make sure I download the areas I’ll visit especially if the network coverage is spotty.
My Ford sync 3 amd my old Tundra with a Kenwood AA radio bot work fine out of service as long as I have the maps downloaded
I have a 2023 Mazda CX-5 and it has the perfect amount of tech for me. The headunit isn’t touch screen, but you get used to the control knob after about a day and eventually it just feels second-nature. Also, all of the hvac controls are physical knobs and buttons, which is amazing.
But the HVAC stuff needs to be buttons I can access/control without looking or very minimal looking.
100% this. I shouldn’t have to click through 2 menus on a touchscreen to change a basic environmental control. Give me a damn knob, so if I want to change something I can reach my hand over and turn 2 clicks without taking my eyes off the road.
Good news, lawmakers in the US finally started looking at this issue.
Bad news: probably will take years for change
There are numerous headlines like:
118th Congress on track to become one of the least productive in US history
So good luck with that.
There’s activity at the state level too in multiple states. I heard something about California, then not a lot. Bunch of articles about Texas.
The company I work at is tangentially related to car company data collection. And this week, all employees received an email that we were legally required to save all records newer than 2005 related to a specific car company’s onboard data collection service.
So it does seem like the investigation has already got a subpoena or smth.
General Motors
Is the car company involved, yes.
Spoiler from the future: it’s legal, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
I’m ok with a decent amount of tech in a car. Like I’m fine being able to connect my phone to the car and have android auto take over the infotainment system.
This reminds me of my 2016 Honda Civic. It had just the right amount of tech.
I drive an Audi Q7 and every time I turn my headlights on, I get warnings about how my “Side Marker Lights” are malfunctioning.
First, no, they’re working fine.
Second, this seems to be super common on the Q7.
Third, the only “fix” is a $4,000 headlight assembly replacement.
Or, you know, connect an ODB-II device and disable the side marker lights.
I don’t mind tech, i hate bad tech
A backup camera and an Android Auto/Apple CarPlay head unit radio that sounds decent. That’s all I want in a car for “tech” that isn’t a safety feature. Everything else can go.
Yeah, when I drive other people’s newer cars, the only thing I miss going back to my early 2000s model is the backup camera.
I’ve got a magnetic clip for my phone on the dash, and a 3rd party Bluetooth > FM converter and it makes for a perfect gps and audio solution.
I was helping my mom shop for a new car, and we discovered she needed the requirement of “physical AC controls”.
Everything is all on the touch screen.
I daily a 1996 Jeep Cherokee. Manual transmission, manual windows, manual door locks. The basic radio was broken before I got it. It does have computer engine control with OBD2, but even that is simple in comparison.
When something breaks or maintenance is needed, it’s a straightforward fix with typical tools. I’ve come to appreciate the simplicity.
My car saved my ass from a road raging drunk, but android auto cannot skip songs from the steering wheel, quite a duality.
Android auto is great, but it’s also a horrible cluster fuck because it’s up to the automakers to integrate it into their system. Sort of just like Android phones from Samsung and other third-party companies.
The automakers usually fuck it up. It works fairly great on my 2015 Mazda 3 except for if I plug my phone in while the car is in reverse or some other odd times, the head unit just gets stuck on a black screen until I restart the car. Also, the touch screen doesn’t work for Android auto which is a bummer.
One word: Stelantis.
Android Auto on my Toyota works perfectly. I love it. And I think CarPlay works even better (I only tried once with somebody else’s phone)
but android auto cannot skip songs from the steering whee
Wut
Mine can do this, but it’s a 2012 Mazda 3 with a custom radio (Pioneer AVH-2330NEX that I installed myself in 2018) and an adapter to make the steering wheel controls work.
Uconnect on stelantis vehicles is the worst software suite I’ve ever had the pleasure of connecting my phone to
The latest gen of mazdas can do this out of the box too.
I wish Mazda made an electric version of the Mazda 3.
I want an electric car because it’s way more convenient to charge at home, especially since I’ve got solar panels that produce more electricity than I need day-to-day so charging would effectively be free.
That’s because they’re putting dumb shit in. We have the technology for example to -
Have high beams shine around other cars. (Regulators actually fucked this up)
Put all the speed and other needed information on the windshield.
Put a thermal image on the windshield so you can see the road as if it were daylight.
Use “fly by wire” controls instead of the same control scheme as a Model T.
And quite a bit more. But no instead we have the world’s worst mix of UI/UX and software in an attempt to save money and sell data.
I’ve driven a car that used a projected HUD like that before and hated every second. It is horribly distracting and unnecessary. The traditional dash is just better and has remained unchanged for so long for good reasons.
Okay. And I’ve driven stuff with projected HUD and loved not having to look away from the road. The best part about tech like that is you can turn it off. It takes literal pennies to implement.
Have high beams shine around other cars.
… while pedestrians and cyclists get blinded.
Thermal imaging would mean we could reduce lights to just markers. But also those high beam systems should be able to recognize cyclists and sidewalks. It’s not perfect but it’s better than what we have now.
Fly by wire would be a terrible design for a car, I’ve seen people driving on space saver tires or with taped up windows for months. If people already just ignore warning lights until something physically stops them from driving then at least having a physical steering column means there’s still control after the power steering fails so that they don’t go straight on into oncoming traffic.
On your other point about still using the same control systems as a model T, modern cars don’t. Hydraulic steering came around in the 50s and almost all modern cars have electric power steering, the model T had completely unassisted rack and pinion steering. I can’t find any definite answer on what the last car without any hydraulic steering was but I’d definitely like to find out if anyone knows.
You got me curious and found this article from 2019, it looks like the Alfa Romeo 4C didn’t have power steering. It was discontinued in 2020.
I was referring to the control scheme. Wheel, pedals, etc…
And we already digitally control speed. Direction can’t be that hard.
Even then we still don’t use the same control scheme as the model T then, the model T had a separate forward and reverse pedal and no clutch.
But fly by wire isn’t a matter of difficulty it’s a matter of redundancy and safety, like I pointed out before, people aren’t going to maintain the system properly and if there isn’t a back up it’s going to lead to accidents.
Okay fine, the model T was a bad example. But we have had this control scheme for a long long time.
And we already do fly by wire for acceleration. Why is turning suddenly so different?
Yeah FBW is cool for like big super complex systems that are maintained and inspected rigorously.
Not small sporadically maintained, almost never inspected vehicles with two pedals and a two dimensional control wheel.
Don’t look at cruise control systems then.
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Visited my parents while they were in Florida recently. Drove their rental car to the store, it was a newer model with “Lane Assist Technology.” It was terrible. Tried to swerve around a pothole, and the steering wheel vibrated and steered me back into it. Same thing happened as I angled the car to enter a roundabout, the damn thing just steered against me! It felt like at any time the car might just “decide” to swerve me into oncoming traffic! I’ll never buy a car with that trash masquerading as tech. Absolute garbage feature.
Sounds like you used it on poorly marked surface roads.
Most lane systems do pretty well on well marked highways. Very useful for doing long drives.
Yeah. I wished Lemmy was different then Reddit but nope, bitchin gets the upvotes.
It was actually a well marked/maintained road, the pothole I refer to was more like a sewer manhole with a deep depression. Didn’t drive it on the highway, but my mother did, and said she was equally alarmed by how often the steering would “right itself” when she was trying to merge or change lanes.
Merge lanes are definitely not the best. I disable then.
As for changing lanes, your mother doesn’t use her blinker. That temporarily disables lane keep.
I have to back into a parking spot in a shitty, shared driveway. If I don’t throw my (automatic transmission) car into neutral and coast into place, my car will decide I’m too close to the curb and just slam the fuck out of the brakes while still several feet away from where I intend to be. It sounds awful and it scared the absolute shit out of me several times before I internalized the workaround.
Good thing I’m not a fan of the backup camera in general, or this problem would be even more irritating, since the camera turns off when I go from reverse to neutral.
Should have a setting to disable that.
My parents’ cars (which I drive often) both have backup cameras but my own car doesn’t. I often find myself backing up in my own car while staring down at my screen-less dashboard instead of looking behind me or in the rearview mirror.
Conversely, I’m a big fan of backup cameras. They’re a mandated safety feature on new cars for a reason.
A fisheye lens on the very back of the car gives much better situational awareness while backing out of a parking spot while flanked by two huge pickups/SUVs/vans.
First thing I turned off in my new car when I got it. I hate the feeling that the car is no longer responding to my inputs.
I got a loaner last time I had my car worked on at the dealership and had the same experience. Also the option to turn it off was buried in the touch screen menu and didn’t stay turned off next time you drove. When I brought it back the dude was like “So, thinking about trading up?” Fuck no, I hate this thing. I’m keeping my old Civic until the wheels fall off.
Car tech peaked in 2018. Everything since then has been a down grade in my opinion
i really need a car without this all shit. I just want to drive from point A to B. I don’t need any navi, big LCD screen, AC, parking automatic, speed control and all the electronic shit that I have now in my car.
Car companies don’t care, they think the tech gives them an excuse to charge more even though a lot of the tech is actually cheaper (a single touch screen instead of all kinds of knobs and buttons) plus it’s a way for them to collect more of your data to sell. Before buying my next vehicle, I want to make sure I can easily disable its internet functionality through hardware so that it doesn’t phone home.
They can charge SUBSCRIPTIONS this way too
Peak technology enjoyment in a car includes
- multiple zone ac
- heated/ventilated seats
- real buttons and not FUCKING CAPACITIVE TOUCH
- android auto/apple car play
- rear camera.
How about the unnecessary tech that just shouldn’t be allowed.
- Doors that are not primarily manual to open or unlock.
- Touchscreen of any type. I’m okay with capacitive touch buttons but they should be in a fixed location and physically distinguishable from other surfaces.
- Electronic e-brake
- Replacement of any of the main driving functions with anything that is not physical and tactile (turn signals, windshield wipers, headlights)
At least in the US I feel like technology has leapfrogged regulation.
Electronic doors can just fuck right off… Just another thing to break… I’d even go so far to say motorized windows these are great until the motor dies and you can’t shut the window.
I’ve seen waaay more manual handles break than electric windows…but that might be somewhat biased by the sheer age of most of the cars with manual windows…still, rarely ever even heard of an electric one breaking…is that common where you live?
Touchscreen of any type
I think a touchscreen is fine as long as real buttons exist for things a driver might want to manipulate while driving. My Outlander has a fairly large touchscreen that offers media and navigation control, but everything else (climate, drive modes, cruise control/drive assists, windows, locks, etc) is real buttons and dials, and there are also an extra set of basic media controls on physical buttons as well (volume, next/prev track, tuning).
I’m quite happy with that. And the passenger still gets all the touchscreen bells and whistles if they want to explore the map or set up playlists or whatever.
Electronic e-brake
I hate electronic e-brakes. How am I supposed to impress women with handbrake turns without a hand brake?
i absolutely love it when it’s paired with manual transmission and an auto-break function:
when you stop, for example at a red light, and press the break while standing still for a bit, it goes into auto-break mode.
when you then release the clutch while in gear (neutral gets ignored), it automatically releases the hand break, so you can perform a hand break assisted start from standstill without having to touch the actual hand break!
this is excellent when you’ve stopped at an incline, and generally really useful!
but i get the skepticism…i was extremely skeptical at first too, but you get used to it quickly and then it feels weird when it’s missing or turned off in another car… there’s just no reason not to use this feature it’s simply great!
My car has that and a manual handbrake and, yes, it is quite nice.
I just use it for parking. And I like having a physical parking brake. I don’t trust the function of it when it’s just a button.
- lane assist
- adaptive cruise
I’ve been driving spoiled with Lane Keep Assist. I’d like to continue to keep that as a thing in all cars.
Also, I used a Ford Escape as a rental this weekend, and holy shit I hate having to wait for the startup animation to complete so I can finally mess with the A/C and have it going on full blast after sitting in the hot sun all day. My Santa Cruz has actual buttons for all the climate control stuff and I had no idea I’d miss it so much until now.
I have to say I prefer launching climate control from my phone before I ever get in the car. And also I’d rather have the cabin try to keep a temperature automatically instead of forcing me to dick with the temp of the blowing air.
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Also, adaptive cruise control
I’m fine with adaptive cruise, however, I would also like to be able to turn it off quickly and easily if the situation calls for it.
Isn’t it just a press of a button to turn it off?
I replied to another comment on this as well. I wasn’t very clear with what I meant, my apologies. I was referring to turning the adaptive part off, and going back to just regular old cruise control.
Tapping the brakes has immediately turned off cruise control in every vehicle I’ve ever driven.
I was referring specifically to the adaptive part, and going back to dumb cruise. I wasn’t clear, my apologies.
Can you explain a scenario where that would be necessary? Given that adaptive cruise slows you down below your target speed to follow traffic all I can see that doing is either nothing on an open road, or accelerating you into the vehicle in front of you.
I use it all the time on the highway.
Lane keep assist is annoying AF when you live in a place where you’re required by law to cross the double yellow when going around bicycles. You get in a steering wheel fight with the car until you find the menu to temporarily disable it. After next stop-start cycle mid-errand, it’s on again by default thanks to US law.
I mean just using your turn signal turns it off in most cars…
Maybe do that?
Confusing unnecessary signaling that others could misinterpret when you don’t intend on turning.
Did you even take Driver’s Ed?
My current ride is peak technology imho:
- Crank windows
- Cold, manually adjustable seats
- 5 speed transmission
- Knobs and levers, minimal buttons
- MSRP under $10k–
There’s some other minor tech that’s fairly nice that I haven’t seen in cheaper cars. Lights under the door to light up the ground on dark nights for when you’re getting out. Just solid utilitarian tech right there.
My single piece of favorite car tech is the cruise control that follows the cars ahead of you and brakes when necessary. I barely use my feet for driving anymore.
I am entirely the opposite. I think cruise just makes driving less engaging and more boring.
Ideally I want everything to be manual, I even control every individual wiper swipe a lot of times if I am just driving along on a highway. Less boring, more engaging. Means I am more attentative on the road.
I do however understand I am a minority.
Fine for short trips, less fun on hours+ long drives. It’s nice having options!
I don’t know what is considered a long trip for you but to me it’s 6 hours plus, which I deal with no problems. I just think it makes driving more boring when there’s less stuff to be in control of.
I live far away from my family and my wifes family so we drive a lot of 6-12 hour drives and I always drive the full stint. Doesn’t bother me but I am not everyone.
There are far more important things than feeling bored when you’re transporting irreplaceable human beings.
Boredom leads to poor focus and tiredness and is highly relevant for safely manning a vehicle
Ah yea adaptive cruise control with lane assist is my jam.
You’d like the 2020+ Q50 then
After having used both Android Auto and Apple Car Play.
I really prefer having a good phone mount, that puts my phone in a glance-able place near the wheel.
That, and quality Bluetooth Audio.Nobody is mentioning heads-up displays? That’s peak tech. The info is right there without having to move your eyes off the road.
because barely anyone even knows about HUDs, since there are barely any vehicles in the “won’t cost you both kidneys” price segment with HUDs in them…
…but yes, they really should be in every car. it’s just a no-brainer for safety, for the exact reason you said: simply having your speed right in your field of view alone is worth it!
I feel like a HUD is only in expensive cars because it’s a very useful feature people actually want.
Based on this MKBHD/Auto Zone video the way to get real buttons and sensible features is to buy a minivan.
Can’t say that I would buy a minivan, because I hate them.
But my car (Hyundai Azera) has all physical AC buttons and it’s great. But it shows the temp on the touchscreen which is unfortunately kinda fundamental to this car from what I’ve found.
One of the reasons I mentioned android auto, I just have a AAwireless adapter right now, had a Motorola M1 which died. But that is basically all I need other than a charger which I have a 100w type c for that.
Sorry kinda rambled for a bit
I’d say that that kind of imposes a size restriction, but honestly, the crossovers that everyone seems to buy are about the same size as those these days anyway.
Comfortable seats
A suspension that is comfortable over bumps, but not floaty or bouncy and slightly firm under compression.
I’d rather just have a standard size bank up front, like, 3DIN, and choose my own “car computer”. Have security locking support, guarantee certain power supply, impact, and temperature conditions. And then open up the “car console” market.
And let me be able to upgrade it five or ten years down the road.
If they want to provide a standard first-party center panel offering, fine. But computers and phones have a shorter life than do cars, and I don’t want to be locked into ancient or badly-chosen controls and computers. This “car is a big cell phone” thing is just godawful from a consumer standpoint.
That would be amazing. I miss the days of swapping my head for one I want. Blaupunkt MiniDisc here we go!
When i got my last one i specifically asked for, and got, no electric or electronic “conveniences”. Even the doubledin stereo got removed and a singledin unit put in its place for fewer distractions or trackers. Oldschool rules.
The lack of physical buttons in new cars should be considered alarming from a safety POV.
