for those of you who live in the US: there must surely be Republican voters being appalled by this too, right? Right?
62% of the country supports deporting all illegals. Something that would be unbelievable a decade or two ago is now true for most Americans.
A strong majority of the country supports putting millions of people in camps and keeping them there for years. Of course GOP is more fervently against it- the same GOP that idolizes Reagan who gave blanket citizenship to millions of illegals.
100% of that 62% have no idea at all what is going to happen to many services they depend on. Doesn’t matter if it’s the price of food on the table going up because the farm workers disappeared or the person disappearing who has the necessary but unglamorous job of cleaning bedpans at the nursing home, they’re all very important jobs that people will miss immediately, and they can often be done by migrants or illegal workers.
The thing is, I’d almost be willing to go through a hard period if it served as a lesson to all the ignorant Americans out there that would last at least a generation.
But it won’t.
They’ll be manipulated into believing the other side, and immigrants, are the cause of their suffering, despite they themselves giving total power to Republicans.
The Germans didn’t realize the error of their ways until the rest of the world killed the fuck out of them and invaded their country and their economy completely collapsed and their government was rebuilt with the guidance of their invaders. I’m assuming it’ll take at least that much to convince ignorant conservatives why their ideology isn’t compatible with the future.
Yes, for most of my life I thought we would never get rid of the illegals for precisely this reason. They are so integrated into our economy that eliminating them would cause a huge fallout. Almost 15 million people here. And they’re dramatically over-represented in specific industries.
So for example, you mentioned food. Agriculture, especially in the SW, runs on illegal labor. Construction all over the country runs on illegal labor. The people washing dishes at restaurants, the people cleaning up offices at night, the people working at landscaping companies, etc.
All of those industries are about to experience a severe supply shock of labor. This is going to mean increased prices for food, for landscaping, for construction, etc. Not only that, the services are going to be increasingly harder to staff. It’s really hard to find an American willing to relocate to rural areas to dig holes. It’s hard to find ones that are willing to pick fruit, etc.
Not to mention the effect that 15 million less consumers eating at local restaurants, buying products from Amazon, paying rent, will have.
And the worst part of it, the part that scares me, is that I’m certain Trump and his allies know this. They are entirely aware of the potential consequences of what they are doing. It does not take an economic savant to understand this and certainly Trump has some very smart advisors around him. So they are aware and they are doing it anyway.
What does that imply? That means they are willing to nuke our economy for this (throw in tariffs too while we’re at it). And when I say nuke I mean nuke- there’s no going back after this. We’re causing permanent long-term structural damage. Why would he be willing to do this?
I fear because there’s a lot worse on the horizon. Global war will overshadow the economic fallout from these decisions and will be pointed to as the cause of the near-future economic woes. Maybe I’m jumping to conclusions here, but this is not a good omen. It’s sort of like suicidal people giving away all their money before they off themselves. It’s a red flag.
I think we’re fucked with a capital F
Wouldn’t be surprised. Never waste a crisis. Nationalize things, martial law. Who knows what power grabs trump would make.
Who knows what power grabs trump would make.
I 100% do not expect our government to be recognizable, or functional, by the end of this. However long it lasts.
Something that would be unbelievable a decade or two ago
The GOP’s propaganda really did a number on easily manipulated Americans. Turns out, the internet was a really, really good tool to spread hatred.
Nah. If there’s a percentage of conservatives who have come to realize the mistake they’ve made, it’s vanishingly small.
We’re talking about a group of people uniformly ignorant and hateful. You have to be to support the conservative ideology. Those are prerequisites.
Yes.
They’ll claim they disagree with it and they don’t like Trump (except for -insert all his policies-) and then vote for him for a third term when he makes that legal. They need to pretend not to salivate about oppressing brown people when they are in polite company but that’s about it.
They’ll just refuse to acknowledge it
Some of the single-issue voters probably are, but not enough to actually vote against their single issue in the future.
That would require them to vote at all and Facebooks ain’t gonna scroll on the couch itself!
Our people are horrible, vindictive morons.
And I don’t mean that from a place of emotional response to bad things, I am saying all of this dispassionately and analytically. The country has a large population of people who are objectively horrible, and vindication has become our primary focus for political action, and this is all because they’re generally morons.
I can’t even really exaggerate or overplay this. The average American’s intelligence is worse than abysmal. I used to lead a team of data-workers at a large company, we had nice, casual morning meetings and talked about the latest events for about a half hour before work. I ended up in the position of people bringing me news stories and headlines to “translate” for them. I had to explain what planets are, I had to explain how gravity works, I had to explain how democracy works, I had to explain history and math and facts and ratios and words like “industrious” or “ambivalent” every day, over and over. AND I’M NOT A SMART PERSON. I have always prided myself on being informed, but at some point I became the one-eyed king in the land of the blind and I hate it.
Everything here is going to get so, so much worse because I know how far down the barrel goes, and we haven’t even touched the bottom yet.
Yup.
Remove Donald Trump and Republicans from the equation and you still have a nation overflowing with unrealistically ignorant and hateful people.
That problem doesn’t go away with whoever’s in charge of our politics.
Our situation is 100% guaranteed to get much, much worse. And probably for the rest of our lives.
The part that crashed me into a very deep period of depression (probably the high fever from Covid didn’t help) was realizing that this is as good as it gets.
All of our current issues are the same issues we’ve been struggling with as a species for the last several thousand years, and likely a lot longer before record-keeping was a thing. As much as we can bend the forces of nature and manipulate the material world around us with flashy machines and complex systems, we’re still irrevocably and immutably just primate animals adapted to an ice-age world of predators, and even if we had the perfect social systems with limitless resources, we would find ways to break everything because we’re just not capable of more. We are animals who stole fire from the Gods but we do not have the minds of Gods, we have selfish, malicious, fearful and anxious animal brains that make us ignore facts and logic and reason and respond only to our reactions.
It won’t be us venturing into the universe. If we ever get off this speck of dust drifting around a sunbeam, it won’t be us, it will be some descendant made of silicon and logic-gates emulating our species at some level but synthetic and who knows if it will even be aware like us… who knows if we’re even aware. We are so good at tricking ourselves we actually believe we have choice and freedom and awareness of the world around us.
Try to find the place in which your thoughts originate and you will find a chaotic realm where your brain has already made all its choices and it just wants you to feel satisfied with the explanation you think you came up with. It’s deeply distressing. Don’t actually try it.
Bloody sickening.
Wasn’t trump one of the Obama critics demanding him to close it?
Yes, but that’s because he apparently wanted it cleared out so that American citizens could be “accidentally” put there instead.
But it’s OK because it’s Trump doing it not Biden.
My grandmother fought in the Dutch resistance, helped people who were Jewish escape, and was put in a camp. She died a few years ago. This is how that happened, too. And we’re all watching. Even with americas vaunted 2nd amendment, Russian-backed fascists just walked in and took over, and everyone is just watching them. No riots, no fighting back, just passive resistance.
I wish all of you the best of luck. I’m going to go hug my kids.
It’s coming and Americans are refusing to see the oncoming headlights.
Your grandmother sounds like a fucking hero
She really was. The war changed her forever, though. On her death bed she disavowed her lifelong Roman Catholicism, saying “No God would allow what I have seen and lived.”
Before that she was an absolute badass and had many dalliances with a man of the clergy, causing his expulsion from the order.
Don’t blame the Russian for what the US is doing. A country that spent years of committing war crimes and establishing laws that invade privacy, haunting down journalist and humanitarian, is destined to use that power to abuse their own people sooner or later regardless of foreign intervention.
Don’t blame the Russian for what the US is doing
Я сделаю все, что захочу, товарищ.
Russian-backed
USians try not to blame other countries for their own fascism challenge: impossible version
Fièrement pas tabarnak Américain, bien versé dans psyops Russes. Erreur facile à faire, vatnik.
Je ne sais pas pourquoi tu me parles en français. Me podrías hablar en español, oder auf Deutsch auch. I’m not a vatnik, fuck the capitalist modern Russian government, it’s actively oppressing people I hold very dear for being women or LGTBQ. I’m just fucking exhausted of Americans having to explain away fascism in their country in racist terms like “White Taliban” or “y’allqaida”.
I’m not a vatnik, fuck the capitalist modern Russian government
Then why the fuck are you arguing against the reality that Trump is a manchurian candidate for Russia?! That Russia is spreading psyops online to agitate people in Canada, the US, Europe, etc, to vote Conservative? I’m not ‘blaming’ Russia, it’s a fact that Russia is causing a lot of this to happen. No-where did I assuage the US of any guilt, I just pointed out that Russian-backed fascists: Trump, Elon, the entire Republican party, just took over. They are literally backed by Russia, this is not some conspiracy or hand-waving, it’s reality. I didn’t use any racists terms, I didn’t shift focus to the middle east, I merely said, how fascism is happening in the US and blaming them for watching it happen. You’re strawman-ing with the ‘white taliban’/etc comments, you know damn well I didn’t say that.
Stop fucking helping them by parroting them. I know there’s an exhaustion in you, I have it too, but this isn’t how we do what you want.
So now I have to deal with racism because Russia bad? Actually no, fuck that. Modern capitalist Russia is a consequence of the USA, it’s backwards my man. The USSR, upon dissolving, was auctioned to the most corrupt bidder in a fashion dictated by the MIT. The US CREATED the Russian oligarchy that now directs Putin’s actions, the fact that it went rogue is no different than with the “mujahedeen” turning into the Taliban.
Buying into this framework that everything is Russia’s fault is ahistorical bullshit. Who’s behind the invasion of Iraq? And behind the genocide in Gaza? Who’s behind the invasion and carpet bombing of Vietnam and Korea? Behind the rehabilitation of Nazis in Operation Paperclip? Who supported fascism in Spain? Fuck even the caricature rightist presidents like Bolsonaro, Boris Johnson or Milei are copies of fucking Trump. The US is simply the MOST EVIL empire on Earth, Russia is also evil but it happens to have less economic and diplomatic power for now so the consequences are less all-encompassing. FFS WHO ELECTED A SIEG-HEIL ENJOYER IN THE GOVERNMENT.
Framing everything in “Russia bad” narrative isn’t only racist, it literally shrugs away all the evils of the American empire and that’s simply not something I’m willing to do.
MAGA has a hardon for cruelty. It’s about hurting people. They love the idea a rounding up non-white people, loading them into boxcars, and shipping them off to concentration camps. Everything that Trump has done so far is going make billionaires richer and regular Americans much poorer but as long as he’s hurting non-whites they will sit around giving each other rage handies and praising him.
but as long as he’s hurting non-whites they will sit around giving each other rage handies and praising him
What I find fascinating is the right-wing illegal immigration latinos who support Trump. Up until now they’ve been saying “He’s not going to deport us, he’s deporting the criminals”. I just read a news article about half of the people they’ve arrested so far did not have any criminal records.
White House press secretary goes live the other day and says “We’re going to deport all of them. They’re all criminals as far as I’m concerned”
I think people have this instinctual burning desire to feel part of an “in-group” and to hate against an “out-group”. It’s such a strong burning desire that people will jump through so many mental hoops even when they are in the “out-group”.
Note that being illegal is not a crime. It’s like when you get a parking ticket. It’s against the law but it isn’t a criminal violation. But of course the administration doesn’t care and neither does the army of rabid Americans cheering on the destruction of the country.
Right wing politics in a nutshell
Exclusion & Sadism
Can I just make the point here that Not All Sadists
Well yeah, There are Leftist sadist too
The way I understand it we have these places in the US call prisons and they are used to house criminals. I guess the only problem with that is in order to put people in them they have to be guilty of a crime.
Well, they also dont allow torture and murder.
Edit: Wait, yeah they do. Rape too.
Doesn’t seem like misreporting. I found other sources reporting it too.
I sent a text to those I love in any capacity, even former coworkers who’ve probably deleted my number. Not a group text - one by one. I think it’d be prudent for all US readers to consider doing the same.
Knowing some of you are like me, in that you might not know how to word such a text to someone not expecting it from you, I offer you my copy/pasted text:
America has a concentration camp now. I won’t send you anything more…it’s kind of rude that I’m sending this one. https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/donald-trump-announces-plan-to-send-migrants-guantanamo-bay/
I would add something like, “But this is important and the people need to know about it.” at the end. It highlights the gravity of the situation and subtly encourages recipients to do the same.
What will it take, Americans? What will it take? What will it take.
To this day we still question how could the Germans watch Hitler and the Nazis come to power. Well we’re learning how, in real time.
“I’m still too comfortable, I need to pay my bills” should be the summoning chant for fascism.
Arm the undocumented.
And only $13 million per year in 2019, https://archive.ph/oOiK4 , per inmate that’s $390,000,000,000 per year. Sounds like a great use of tax payer money.
Let’s be realistic here…orange Don doesn’t expect any of those people to still be alive after a year, what with all the accidents involving upper storey windows that could just happen at any time, or maybe someone could call for a code red.
Mark my words- queer people will be next.
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Some of us are able to keep more than one concern in our heads at a time.
So no, I’m not going to ignore the oppression of queer people just because you don’t want their existence brought up.
Also, you do know that some of those immigrants are queer, right? Did you assume they were all cishet?
Trans women specifically, the others are safe for a few more years then it will be their turn.
😢 I’d guess trans women and all unhoused people could be the first casualties, potentially involving cheap prison labour within the US to replace externally detained migrants. Why is it so easy to think of worst case scenarios but so hard to think of ways to stop this?
Democrats could actually campaign on healthcare for all, living wages and stop trying to restrict gun ownership for the working class. But here we are. But then they’d have to actually help poor people instead of trapping them in cycles of dependency, and tax the rich. There’s a reason they shut Bernie down. Their owners don’t like those things.
I meant before elections come (and that’s assuming they don’t find a way to undermine those as well). All I can think of is how Michelle Obama quoted MLK Jr. and said to honour his legacy by getting involved in local community, honouring the other important day of the year that it was, rather than commenting on the inauguration directly.
100%. If you look at the language they’re using to describe trans people in their EOs it’s clear as day where they’re heading and considering they’ve begun holding trans people’s passports indefinitely- they don’t want us escaping.
Someone in another thread is literally telling me queer people have nothing to fear because, according to them, nothing serious has happened yet.
And they and others give me shit for getting my gay daughter out of the country because I’m supposed to put Palestinians (who I work my ass off to help) ahead of my own child. Which, and I’m not sure they understand this, is neglect and generally frowned upon by child protective services.
I don’t get it, what does you moving to the UK have to do with helping Palestinians?
Apparently you should care more about Palestinians than your own queer child because there is no genocide of queer people in America even though it’s literally already started… but it’s not like those people actually give a shit about Palestinians. They’re just a pawn in their need to berate strangers on the internet.
I pointedly ask them what they are doing about the genocide since I work my ass off contacting politicians. It’s very clear that not only have most of them not done shit, most of them have never even talked to a Palestinian.
They also don’t seem to realize (or maybe care) that there are queer Palestinians. In America. At risk right now. Also in Palestine. But I guess they’ll be just fine.
Ah, the usual bad faith crap where some people decide that one particular tragedy out of the thousands happening all over the world right now is all you should care about. They’re just like the single-issue voters that helped Trump get elected.
Very much that, yes.
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There are definitely others that seem to participate in these discussions with the sole goal of upsetting people wearing a veneer of of leftist politics while lacking any seeming empathy. I tend to doubt their motives when they seem to only have compassion for some and not all
How did you get out of the country if you don’t mind me asking? I have no idea where I would start if I needed to leave. I’d prefer to go to a blue state if I could but of course that might not be an option. Also do you miss living in the US?
I am lucky because of this: https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-british-parent/born-before-1983
However, we are living on my savings until I get a job and my wife had to stay behind for now. My daughter can be here on a travel visa for six months and we will be out of money in three. I need a job that makes at least £29,000 a year to get a family visa for the two of them.
We’ve also only been here since the inauguration, so I am not all that homesick so far (I miss my wife and our dogs). Also I am just in awe of how nice and helpful people are here. I really didn’t realize the exact extent of American self-entitlement asshole culture until we got here and everyone has been friendly and helpful. Even the drunks.
That does sound nice. Hopefully you’re able to find some work and you’re able to get the rest of your family soon!!
I hope so, thanks!
HomosexualityQueerdom is aJewishimmigrant plot againstGermanythe US.It’s practically fascist mad libs.
The path to that easier than you might think. Just get the propaganda mill talking about Thai ladyboys and black-market hormones a bit. They love little talking points that are are rooted in preconceptions and tiny slivers of half-truths that they can contort to fit their agenda…to expand on and then justify their actions.
They are fun to pick out. The other day Trump claimed that the ominous “they” were sending water directly to the ocean to save an endangered fish instead of to LA to fight fires.
That endangered fish is called a Delta Smelt. “Delta”, as in a river delta, as found at the end of a river…you know, that thing that carries said water to the ocean.
Mexican joker
(☝︎ ՞ਊ ՞)☝︎
Are they just reviewing all the accusations they made about Democrats over the past few years and just using that as a template for what they want to do.
Does anyone know how big is Guantanamo? It takes a lot of space to imprison 30,000 “worst of the worst” children and other people, along with guards and supplies to keep all of them alive.
Aside from the other glaring problems with this idea, is this even physically plausible?
it’s a pretty big marine base
Why are you assuming they need supplies to keep them alive? You’re forgetting that cruelty is the point for project 2025
I knew the concentration camps were coming, but just after ten days? Holy shit
Rather unfortunately, the mass deportations was one of the most popular parts of Trump’s platform. Everybody knows mass deportation comes with concentration camps. It’s not that his voters are unaware of it, they actively love it!
Honestly, I was expecting them in less time. Like 2-3 days in.
The faster they move the more they can get done before their opponents can mobilise resistance.
I would say that so far, there appears to be much less public resistance to Republican policies than in previous years. The Democrats appear to be at sea. The left’s working class base is split. Public institutions are too busy protecting their turf, making gestures at cooperating with the new world order rather than trying to resist.
It feels like last time there was an assumption that
Trump and MAGA politicsa criminal dictator and fascist politics were a blip or aberration from the norm, now there’s an acceptance that they’re institutionalised.Trump and MAGA politics
Maybe the language we use to describe them is itself normalising and pacifying. Like calling a Nazi salute a “hand gesture.”
I would suggest “a criminal dictator and fascist politics” as a substitute in your sentence to provoke an acceptable, proportionate reaction.
He is not quite a dictator yet. Let’s call him an aspiring dictator, to make it clear that action can still prevent it from getting that bad.
I like it.
Le perma stun keeps as expected
Call your senators
https://www.senate.gov/senators/senators-contact.htm?Class=1
Call your representative in the house
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
It’s “illegal” migrants now. But it will be us eventually! Do not let it get to that point. They did not win this election by a landslide, and they can only do as much damage as we let them!
It’s not eventually. The ‘problem’ with being overly aggressive on migration is how easy it is to ignore someone’s “documentation”. And then it is a quick move to a camp where they’ve determined that, for efficiency, you don’t have any right to representation. License? Fake. Passport? Fake.
Man, the place is gonna so quiet without all the US citizens, we’ll finally be able to talk about stuff that isn’t related to the US!
Like how your country is going in the same direction they did!
This is a concentration camp, we’re past the point of calling.
So what are you going to do about it? Just sit there and let it happen?
It’s cute that you think senators have any power anymore. I’m guessing you think the next election won’t be Russia-style too.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted, when will Americans understand this? Their political system is done, there’s no turning back at this point, it’s gone beyond the event horizon. The only question is how long will Americans continue to bicker and bitch while they see how much worse things get. You have concentration camps now, 10 days in, what will it take? Where is the line that they cross when you know they’re a threat to your life? When the soldiers are already banging your door?
Concentration camps killed and tortured millions.
At this point, you’re very much still exaggerating. Is it possible we’ll get to concentration camps? Sure. But we aren’t right now, as you are spreading. As of now there’s not much different than his first term, remember the kids in cages? Also terrible, but very far from concentration camps, where they killed and tortured millions.
Concentration camps killed and tortured millions.
At this point, you’re very much still exaggerating.
This is exactly how it happened.
From its rise to power in 1933, the Nazi regime built a series of incarceration sites to imprison and eliminate real and perceived “enemies of the state.” Most prisoners in the early concentration camps were political prisoners—German Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats—as well as Roma (Gypsies), Jehovah’s Witnesses, gay men and men accused of homosexuality, and persons accused of “asocial” or socially deviant behavior. Many of these sites were called concentration camps. **The term concentration camp refers to a camp in which people are detained or confined, usually under harsh conditions and without regard to legal norms of arrest and imprisonment that are acceptable in a constitutional democracy. **
Explain to me how sending people to Guantanamo Bay, already infamous for torturing inmates, is somehow not exactly this?
I cannot BELIEVE people will hand wave stuff like this or Elon’s Nazi salute so we have to wait until they’ve killed a million people before we’re ALLOWED to say what we KNOW is happening.
So people should only start any action after the damage is done? After the torture and death of millions? Because only then it is undeniably similar to WW2 concentration camps. I would propose not to wait for that.
Thank you for proving my point, bicker and bitch while you see how much worse things get it is then. Americans like you truly deserve what’s coming, because the rest of the world is trying to scream at you but “it’s not bad enough yet.” I’ll ask again, what will it take? Where is the line that they cross when you KNOW they’re a threat to your life?
Concentration camps killed and tortured millions.
The first concentration camps were established by the British during the Boer War. There were deaths from malnutrition and disease, but no poison gas or bullets in the head. More malign neglect.
You have this beautiful, nearly unique concept called the second amendment.
