To everybody saying “reverse racism” or whatever your wording is to imply that buying specifically from black people is problematic, why? Do you think that you would have a hard time finding a white run CSA to buy? This is just a resource for people interested in supporting the black community and frankly I see any form of opposition to it as pretty blatant racism itself. I’ll return from a Google search with what I find for other race specified CSA indexes in a bit.
I’m back,
https://www.queerfarmernetwork.org/
Here’s an LGBTQ farm share directory. Is it reverse bigotry to purchase from them? I had to play with search terms a bit but a combination of CSA, farm share, agriculture share, and your chosen identifier should produce you results.
I am genuinely looking for an answer because I’m fucking baffled by this thread.
buying specifically from black people is problematic, why?
The problem isn’t that buying from black people is a problem, the problem is that it’s trying to be a selling argument, and that’s just stupid. Are the vegetables of a black farmer better than of a white farmer? Do queer farmers make better cheese than straight farmers? I somehow doubt it. In the end, it’s a matter of skill and you can have that regardless of your sexuality or skin color.
I’m seriously wondering how you ever expect something like “inclusion” to happen when you’re the ones that keep treating the groups you’re trying to include differently.
It’s about supporting marginalized people if one chooses to. If one chooses not to, they can just move one without comment. I’m just confused because it seems so simple and the only answer to me is deep seated, potentially non intentional racism.
The problem is that it’s a fundamentally good idea to support your local farmers and businesses, but you’re artificially injecting the race card yet again instead of just ignoring the skin color for once. It’s someone who sells you carrots and potatoes, why care about the race? Why support especially a black farmer? There’s no reason for it tbh - support your local business.
the only answer to me is deep seated, potentially non intentional racism.
Must be tough to try your hardest to see racism everywhere you go.
Some sort of brigading going on here, lots of comments with almost identical wording.
It’s cool, but buying produce from your neighbors is also cool. Strong communities thrive together
It’s cool, but buying produce from your neighbors is also cool.
Um… My neighbors are black you fucking prick.
Im pretty happy to get an locally grown products. Im lucky though as we have lots of farmers markets and its not hard to sign up for a monthly box.
Here in Germany we have similar projects, but it seems the producers/farmers often have absolutely no idea how to anticipate or meet the demand of their customers.
Like, I’m very aware that farming is a seasonal business, you can’t really grow much salad during the German winter without a greenhouse. Perfectly fine. What is not fine is dumping basically your entire salad harvest for that season in a 4 week window onto paying customers.
You’ll get 8 salad heads per week for a month or two, almost inevitably throwing or giving most of it away, and then you’ll get 5 kilos of some roots for the next 3 months.
Monthly box subscriptions have always been that though. You’re getting whatever they can’t shift.
It sorta works this way here. They try their best but there will be a lot of kale. They have this thing were you have some ability to substitute as well
Well, only 2 within reasonable distance. One only sells microgreen kits. The other appears to be a supplier for restaurants, etc.
I zipped them an email to ask about private sales. But, definitely nothing on their website about sales and shipping to the public.
Lots of deadlinks and farming alliances with mission statements.
Not a lot of links to buy food from farmers.
Yeah, this isn’t being maintained. All the ones near me are dead websites.
My local link was dead but easy enough to find on FB. I’m going to drop by when I’m in town, see what they got.
Just Google “CSA <your city>”
I think we should come up with a term for the kind of people to whom the color of a person’s skin is this important.
There is greater demonstration of community among non white people. As such, theres a built in hook not just for saying hello to a stranger, but for coming together to organize something like this. I think that’s more likely where it’s coming from than what you’re thinking.
Either way, I’d like a better veggie source for the things we don’t grow ourselves.
It’s not about their skin color to me. It’s more about a likeliness that they’re not a Republican. Yes, I know, there are black Republicans, but it’s less likely.
Anti-white nationalists? Or anti-MAGAts?
Just spitballin here…
We do: “Republicans”
I think you are conflating where the “importance” has come from. A person can recognize that skin color does not matter. They can also recognize that the system they live in places a huge importance on skin color through endemic systems that have been in place for decades. How do you counteract an unbalanced system? By sticking your fingers in your ears and going “it doesn’t matter” or by seeking out those who are trying to make a change?
Unfortunately, for some folks it’s never enough. Why only black folks? Why not disabled folks? Why not indigenous folks? Etc. But you have to start somewhere - and many people aren’t even trying. My point is that projects like this are a start. They’re not going to solve every issue but they’re trying to make a difference and I think that’s neat.
I wouldn’t agree with “sticking fingers in my ears and saying it doesn’t matter” being a fair representation of what I’m trying to say here.
I would claim that in the case of person’s skin color we truly shouldn’t care about it any more than we care about the color of their hair or eyes. It’s it’s a description of appearance, not a reflection of who they are. If we want to live in a world where this is the case, then my argument is that paying more attention to it is not the way to go. I’m sure the people behind this have good intentions but it’s the method I disagree with here.
I apologize for implying that.
You’re right that we shouldn’t care, but how do we help those who have been disenfranchised if we don’t identify them? Advocacy isn’t about caring about appearance over character, it’s is about shining a light on systematically disenfranchised groups of people so that we can support them.
Despite what the Fascists would erase from history and science, critical race theory is like the theory of gravity, it’s absolutely correct and all around us.
African Americans have never been made whole since their ancestors were brought here as slaves. They’ve never been the primary or equal beneficiaries of the generational windfalls that have occurred here. They’ve been sabotaged at every step. Ever heard of Tulsa?
It’s ridiculous how many people shriek get over it when Jim Crow is still well in living memory. When African American families get substantial reparations for what was done to their families over and over generationally, so never, then you’d have a leg to stand on.
5 day old account and you’re posting like crazy all over the place.
Now where have I seen that type of behaviour before…
I didn’t know that averaging 10 messages per day is considered “posting like crazy”
Lets hear your theory then about what that means.
Do you think there might be a reason their skin color is relevant under the Trump administration?
Edit: Interestingly, your post history shows that you are very interested in skin color yourself.
I didn’t see anything too egregious in their post history to get worked up over. Some downvotable opinions, sure (in America, a lifted truck is almost guaranteed to be indicative of racism, or at least republicanism.) but not really anything to be mad about.
I’m not worked up over anything. I’m just noting that they bring up the subject of race multiple times in the couple of pages of their history I looked at.
It’s a big subject at the moment. Palestinians v Israel, China v uyghurs, trump v everybody, it’s not unreasonable to mention these things in context. According to their posts, it seems they’re from Finland. I’ve never been, and don’t pretend to know a whole lot about Finland other than their war with Russia and simo hayha (due to my US army background) but I would be surprised if I found out that Finland had an issue with race, honestly. So does talking about race during a time when race is a big world issue automatically make them racist? No, it’s a discussion topic, and they never said anything racist. Don’t press that button unnecessarily, or it becomes meaningless.
I never called anyone a racist. In fact, I was the one being called a racist for posting this in the first place.
Ehhhh you did go through their post history looking for something to be mad about because you disagreed with something they said. Neither of you have said anything racist. We need to remember who the bad people really are, those who do, or wish harm on others. Let’s try consolidating instead of separating.
Again, I never called anyone a racist.
I only went back 5 days, maybe that’s a limitation for my mobile app, but yeah I also couldn’t find cause to say they can’t stop talking about race.
Interestingly, your post history shows that you are very interested in skin color yourself.
Feel free to dig thru it and post it here for everyone to see.
That sounds like a silly thing to do when it’s publicly available… and notable how often you want to talk about race.
I’ll save them the trouble then and out myself here by posting the only other mention of skin color on my entire post history. Clearly I can’t stop talking about race.
Concluding that someone is a lesser human because of their skin color seems just as illogical to me as calling someone a racist because they drive a lifted truck. These things are completely unrelated.
Who here is concluding that? Can you please present anyone here concluding that?
They’re saying that quote is the only other instance of them talking about skin color in their post history, not that it’s relevant to this thread or the people in it.
Thanks so much for this! I don’t mind scrolling and clicking either.
+1 for this, it isn’t that hard to do a little scrolling and if you really need it, use in-page searching and choose a city or town within your state.
Why are Americans so obsessed with skin colour
It’s a nation founded on racism and the back of race based slavery. That shit doesn’t disappear overnight, unfortunately.
Buying something because it goes to a certain skin colour promotes racism CMV
Which is a downstream effect of the racism the nation was founded on? Crazy right?
Don’t cut yourself on all that edge before you graduate highschool kid.
it is still much more difficult for people of color to become professionally successful than it is for white people. That’s a fact. There are still laws in place (and not nearly enough protections), which disproportionately harm POC.
Do they not deserve to be just as successful? To follow their dreams? To be able to support themselves and their families?
Knowing this, why wouldn’t you seek out black-owned business to help counter systemic racism? Those in power in the US, at least, aren’t going to do it. This is by their design.
I care about the well-being of everyone (well, minus the 1% and Nazis), but those who continue to be harmed by a system—that I directly benefit from as a white person—simply require more attention if we’re ever going to have an equitable society.
The most impactful racism, that is also the hardest to fix, is systemic racism. I think the idea behind buying from black owned businesses is the individuals attempt to offset the systemic racism that they, individually, can do very little about.
Yeah that’s not how it works.
CMV
Nah I’m good.
Thank you! I did not know that. Last news that I heard about black farmers was about then getting screwed by massive ag conglomerates.
Finding a farm close where you want is made unnecessarily difficult by the site’s interface. The grouping of states in regions is a hindrance and once you get to your state, the farms can’t be sorted other than by their name, so you have to look through every single one of them to find the farms close to you.
Great idea, terrible execution.
Cmd-F or Ctrl-F to search for cities. It’s imperfect, but I found seven hits for my city instantly. I could search neighboring cities and towns the same way.
That assumes you know all the place names of the region where you’re at. Someone that moved recently and/or lives in a tristate area (all of which are in different state regions in my case according to that map) is just faced with a very hostile design.
To add to this comment, it’s not hard to find any of this information. “States grouped into areas” scroll to find your state, or again ctrl+f. “Hard to find cities” thankfully living in my area and being somewhat familiar with said area I can scroll down the list and find farmers in my general area. Short of putting in my address and searching for ‘closest to’ which I hate anyway, this isn’t as bad an interface as op suggests.
I’m still going to say it’s just not great design; it presents you a large map that is not interactable in any way, then below that are bits of that map again with ordinary hyperlinks below for each state and/or region. Just let people click on the first map, or just ditch it entirely.
Once you’ve clicked on a state, you get a list of paragraph format entries sorted in the most useless way: alphabetically by business name.
Who is this website for?
I agree whole heartedly, it could be done better. I’m just saying it isn’t complete garbage and if a little confusing still usable.
It’s for the creator of the website, so they can virtue signal while producing something of dubious quality. Most of these farms are already discover-able on better, more comprehensive indexes.
Name one?
But probably not a difficult fix. Websites can be updated.
People who produce bad design like that, are often resistant to change.
As a software developer making enterprise software, that simply isn’t true.
I have been responsible for making some pretty poor design choices and UX flows. I was never resistant to change and more just needed someone to say hey bro that’s dumb, I don’t why don’t we do it like this.
Now I know how to do X and won’t make the same mistakes again.
I’ve worked in IT for over 30 years. I have come across a lot of people who design terrible UIs and get all pissy when you suggest any improvements. I didn’t in any way want to imply that everybody is like that.
I second this - though I agree that it definitely isn’t universal. Especially given that I’m exactly the opposite - I welcome critique and improvements to anything I write because I love learning and improving.
Thanks for coming back to reply. First I want to say that the downvotes you’ve received have been unnecessary imo and I think I should have added that my original comment was in my experience and purely anecdotal.
I guess it all depends on the person and whether they see constructive criticism as… well constructive or whether they see it as a slight against them. Like in any industry really.
it’s offended developers who have been forced to make awful UX/UI for sure. i had to change mine back to an upvote :)
deleted by creator
Or they’re inexperienced and don’t know any better.
If they are, you can probably make a better site, that adds the feature you’re missing and can link to results on theirs.
Or they might welcome assistance from someone who knows how to do it, since their expertise is in farming and they don’t have a lot of money for web design. Such assistance could possibly qualify as a tax-deductible donation.
Which is why I’m providing feedback. I really want this to work.
Who are you providing it to? Because I don’t think FlyingSquid made this website.
The great wide web. I don’t think it’s him either, but this is the channel I found.
I don’t see a contact part on the website, but they do have Facebook, instagram and Twitter (X), those would probably be the best places to provide the feedback. And maybe you can add a message when donating?
I’m not not on fascist platforms but thank you for following up with options.
at least you have something my state doesn’t even have anything lmao, it goes to a boilerplate page that gives little info
My state (big ag state) has a whopping 3 and 2 of those are hemp. The one that isn’t just hemp doesn’t have an area listed, just the state.
I mean I’m glad there are any… but yeah, not a super great resource for some areas lol
Removed by mod
Ex-fucking-cuse me?
That’s on point for him. He’s as racist as the day is long.
I imagine his username is supposed to be ironic.
No, I’m positive it’s literal, just like a college girl that says the same thing.
How is this not racist? If there were a service where you could choose to buy directly from white farmers peoples would lose their minds
How is this meme relevant here? Who are the groups of people supposed to represent?
Black farmers weren’t welcome in white corporations and co-ops. So they made their own. And now white people are mad.
Lol. Lmao.
There is a service to buy directly from white farmers. There’s a bunch of them, including just going to the grocery store.
Well why do you think it is? Genuinely curious
Because racism is the discrimination of someone based on their ethnicity. If you are choosing one person over another due solely to their ethnicity, isn’t that discrimination? Shouldn’t people be judged not by the color of their skin? Explicitly advertising that you are selective solely based on race is racism.
I have seen this discussion happen over and over again and a big part of the misunderstanding is some people in the US have the definition of racism also involving power and some don’t. If your definition is the former, it’s what allows people to say “Fuck white people” isn’t racist with a straight face. Before you ask someone if something is racist, ask them what they think racism is. It will save a lot of time and aggravation for everyone.
It doesn’t matter what their definition of racism is. “Fuck white people” is racist.
To be clear, I’m 100% with you, just pointing out some troubles I had when discussing racism in the past and I found out we weren’t all on the same page.
Some white people have no power and some black people have loads of it. Can we just stop this categorization of people by race for if they can or can’t do something?
They can’t. A lot of these movements are only system tools to maintain us controlled. Another great example is LGBT, tons of big tech and corpo uses LGBT flags on their slogans making it effectively a good shield against critics, but LGBT seem to feel okay to be used like that. The same in feminism also. feminist politicians uses them to get votes and reach political positions, then finance very weird seminars, courses, etc. To promote “healthy masculinism models”. It’s like when pope talks about “traditional family” what the hell pope, a celibate and unmarried man knows about having a family?, what the hell women knows about how to be a man? BECAUSE ALL OF THEM ARE ONLY TOOLS THAT OLIGARCHS USES TO KEEP US OCCUPIED.
Your comment made me think of this:
Because, on average, black people are more economically disadvantaged than white people.
Choosing to explicitly buy from black farmers will, on average, tend to support those with the least financial means out of the general population of farmers, whereas choosing to explicitly buy from white farmers will, on average, tend to support those who are already more financially advantaged.
One side is directly choosing to help those most likely to be economically disadvantaged, the other would be explicitly ignoring those with the least means in order to help those who already have the most, thus the situations are not quite comparable.
I personally would prefer an index that directly assessed farmers based on overall wealth to determine who you should buy from, but because that’s extraordinarily difficult to constantly update & maintain, verify, etc, it can just be easier to divide among racial lines since that still tends to produce a grouping that is relatively similar.
This is the fucking worst argument. To reduce people as stats is the worse.
Should we just stop using statistics then? Numbers don’t matter if they are about people? (I genuinely want an answer here. Should we?)
Statistically, one societal class of people needs more support than the other to have the exact same quality of life, generational wealth, and opportunities. Thus, when deciding who to buy, in this case, produce from, it simply makes sense to purchase from the group most disadvantaged, until their disadvantage is no bigger than the other group, and we can then switch from buying from “small black farmers directly” to “all small farmers directly,” because all of them would then need a near identical level of support, financially speaking, to get the same outcomes.
But in the process you will discriminate another groups.
Group A is historically not discriminated against, and now on average, has a net worth of $100,000.
Group B is historically discriminated against, and now on average, has a net worth of $80,000.
In both groups, some will own more or less than the average, but the largest number of poorer individuals reside in Group B, because the average is lower.
On a per person basis, everyone has $20,000 to spend. Should they give it:
- Exclusively to Group A? (and “discriminate” against Group B, but raise their average net worth to $120,000)
- Exclusively to Group B? (and “discriminate” against Group A, but raise their average net worth to $100,000)
- Split evenly between the two? (bringing Group A’s average to $110,000, and Group B’s average to $90,000)
Which option is most likely to uplift the most poor people to a less poor status?
This is why your argument of “discrimination” doesn’t hold up. The choice to make a purchase from Group A while ignoring Group B only entrenches existing wealth disparities. The choice to make a purchase from both evenly keeps the wealth disparity where it is. The choice to buy exclusively from Group B eliminates the disparity.
This decision is not being made because of race on its own, it is being made because of the common socioeconomic context within which people of color often reside. If white people were the ones who had a history of economic discrimination, even if all other actions regarding past and current racism remained equal, then economically supporting the white farmers specifically would make the most sense, because they would be most economically disadvantaged.
You cannot have a meritocracy when people start on uneven ground, and there is a very demonstrable difference in existing generational wealth between the races, as a direct consequence of past injustices. The way we fix that as individuals, and as a society, is by doing what we can to elevate groups experiencing a disparity until they no longer do.
If the concern is economic disadvantages, shouldn’t the selectivity be based on income and net worth instead of skin color? Maybe selling products from poor and independent farmers. A portion of every race is economically disadvantaged.
Edit: I really appreciate your response. I think you described the issue really well.
shouldn’t the selectivity be based on income and net worth instead of skin color?
We should already be taxing proportional to income, and in the 60s when Affirmative Action was implemented, we were.
But the problem isn’t just that there is a lower class at all, the problem is that the lower class is disproportionately filled with black people and minorities as a direct result of racism.
If you think of it like a footrace, we ran the first half of the race giving black people a straight up disadvantage for no other reason than the color of their skin. Now most of the people in the back of the pack are black. We should already be helping all people in back to catch up to the rest of the pack, but this still means black people are disproportionately in the back as a direct result of that initial disadvantage. We could ignore it, and say that after another 300-400 years of equality, maybe things will even out on their own, but in the meantime you have a bunch of people who are living in poverty and dying, and we can scientifically say for an absolute fact that it’s a direct result of historical disadvantages targeting their ancestors based on race.
It’s inhumane to look those people in the eye and say, “tough luck, we’d help, but we decided we don’t do racism anymore.”
So by buying milk from black farmers, you will help:
- many poor black people
- some rich black people
Whereas by buying milk from poor farmers, you will help:
- many poor black people
- some poor white people
How exactly is the former better than the latter?
Both are good. Each behaviour is a response to a different problem. Refer again to my footrace analogy.
Because on their eyes black people can’t be racist. They haven’t seen the great example of Israel.
This is a remedial question, but that doesn’t make it a bad question. It is a hard problem to solve, and calling an advantage based on race somehow not racist does sound paradoxical at first glance. It’s important to be able to entertain the explanation without outright assuming you’re being attacked by a bunch of obtuse racists.
Hopefully we agree that:
- black americans are at a statistically significant socioeconomic disadvantage compared to white americans, both historically and to this day, and
- this is a direct result of a history of systematic disadvantages specifically targeting them based on their race
Let’s pretend the second bullet point has been solved, that systemic racism is over and done, and we’ve established a perfectly equal union. Even if that’s the case, we are left with the first bullet point as an ongoing problem. The challenge is now, how do you undo the very apparent damage that our history of racism caused, without specifically giving advantages to that group based on their race? And the short answer to a very complex question is: you can’t.
So the US government instituted “Affirmative Action” the goal of which was to deliberately give a targeted advantage to people who have had a history of targeted disadvantages in this country. This catches you up to roughly the 1960s.
But in the last 40 years or so, we continue to see lower class areas of the US disproportionately filled with black americans, and we also see widening wealth inequality affecting virtually everyone. So naturally we also see an increase of non-black people asking the same question as you: “I’m having a hard time too, why are they getting an advantage based on their race? That’s racism!”
The solution was to tax the rich, reduce wealth inequality, and continue to normalize disproportionate demographics. Instead, the wealthy used populism to hijack the republican party, and convince white americans that the minorities recieving these benefits were their enemy. And after 40ish years of pushing this narrative, they succeeded.
With the republican takeover of the federal govt, we can be virtually assured that any ongoing attempts to normalize these unfair demographics will be abandoned, at least at the federal level.
But it’s still a problem, just now one for the people and the states to solve. If you want to support black-owned farmers in an attempt to help pull historically disadvantaged groups out of poverty, you can. If not, that’s fine, just at least please vote for legislation that intends to reduce wealth inequality. (Note that history has exactly two ways of reducing wealth inequality: high taxes on the rich, or war. The question isn’t whether wealth will get redistributed, it’s how).
Tl; dr Yeah, it’s an advantage based on race to solve a problem caused by a history of disadvantages based on race.
In Taiwan, we had “day markets” where local farmers and fishers sell produce directly to you from the previous day’s harvest. Every city has at least a few dozen day markets as well. It really serves the community and not big corps.
Some veggies still have live bugs(ladybugs) on it. That’s how fresh it is.
It also cost 1/4 the cost in a corporate grocery store.
We (the US) have farmers markets in a lot of places. They can have very specific times that I always forget about. Around here in the northern climate, the farmer markets stop during the winter or move indoors and shift to selling more jarred and canned goods. My neighborhood has a coop, but it’s more expensive than the grocery store and with a worse selection. We have options here, but they require more thoughtfulness.
That was a culture shock for me when I moved to the US. I knew that back in the day, in rural areas of my country, the markets only opened once a week. I was shocked to find that happen in urban/suburban areas in the US. Back home I could just go to the closest market any day. Morning news would have a report comparing prices in different markets across the city, so you could pick the one that has the best price for what you need that day.
“Can” cost less is doing a lot of work there. I would guess it would mildly annoy people in power, but TBH this isn’t a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
There are lots of people who frequent local / smaller farms for things like access to organic foods / rarer crops / community support, but I’ve never known it to be cheaper than the industrial produce one can get at your nearest supermarket. Supermarkets clobbered local guys for a reason and pricing was a huge part of that.
I would guess it would mildly annoy people in power, but TBH this isn’t a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
Bidets are a cheaper, well known, better way to clean your asshole after taking a shit, yet the common practice of Americans is still to choose to smear their own shit around their asshole with dry disposable paper cloths.
The flaw in your argument is that you think people, Americans at that, wouldn’t ignorantly continue to pay more for the convenience of not having to think where to buy their produce, because they can get it from the local Walmart 15 minutes away, instead of saving $20+ and driving 2 more minutes.
Americans are notoriously lazy and stupid, as evidenced this past November.
The crab speaks a deep truth.
Bidets aren’t common in a whole lot of countries. Heck there are probably more countries where a bidet is uncommon than common.
Holy shit…your thoughts on bidets are spot on…I just got one and hate not having it all the time due to travel.
-am American but want nothing to do with this hateful bullshit going on currently
I got one cause of how my friend put it to me when she told me to get one. She asked me “if you get shit on your hand, are you just gonna wipe it off with a paper towel and go about your day, or are you gonna wash your hands? Now when you take a crap, why are you just smearing it around instead of washing it?” And it stuck with me and I’ve bought bidets from then on out. A 12 pack of TP lasts me a year, and I only use it to dry my ass. It’s the best thing in the world.
I laughed at friends and family during covid, cause I had a nice clean ass, and everyone else was fighting for toilet paper.
My guess is it costs a lot more to ship small parcels of food rather than to transport food in bulk to one big store where everyone shops for it.
It would cost less for them to ship in bulk. It costs even less for them to charge you shipping and it’s low enough for you that it’s still cheaper than the profit cut of the distributor and grocery store.
I’d pay more just to cut out corps.
My buddy’s sister is a cheese monger. 10/10
Can’t speak to the cost, just found my local place and their FB link is offline.
a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
I cannot overstate how dumb Americans are about shopping. The local Publix (expensive) just put the Winn Dixie (medium prices) out of business, because the Publix is newer and prettier.
Meanwhile, there are 8 other groceries that are cheaper than either. Even the Aldi isn’t busy.
Been in a few big box stores lately, prices stunned me. “People pay for this shit?!” Dude on here posted his fish tank purchase. Spent loads buying: little rocks, sticks, big rocks. I just decorated a terrarium for nearly free.
I buy almost nothing new, hell, I find a lot of my stuff. We had to get a new washer and fridge last year, paid $400 for both off FB Marketplace, nicest I’ve ever had in life, minimum $2,200 at the hardware store. Not going to listen to Americans whine about high prices when they’re complicit.
Apologies, you triggered my Rant Card.
As a fellow American, I can simplify this (Americanize it) even further.
I cannot overstate how dumb Americans are
about shopping.Apologies, I’m just pissed off in general about my country, as I’m sure you are too.
American here. I love finding a good deal. My ex-wife, however, was put-off about buying used, she was more worried about how others saw her than actually saving money.
Just don’t buy meat directly - especially if you are hungry for bat and live in China.
Timely!
