- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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You know, people off their meds don’t make good choices…
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So I’m hearing you say this could be a self-solving problem?
I mean…the trump dictatorship are most likely all on drugs to begin with.
Or, alternatively, not on drugs when they should be.
Or both!
So, they’re taking all the wrong drugs
Exactly
Creating an environment of corruption, chaos, hate and suffering. Hurting the majority of people economically, and ripping away hope for the future. Cutting programs that safeguard people, and specifically targeting their access to healthcare. And taking away the medications that help people deal with mental illness.
Sounds like a recipe for causing people to become desperate and decide they have nothing to lose.
Ding ding ding! Make no mistake about it… the penultimate goal of the first six months of project 2025 is the suspension of habeus corpus and the deployment of US Military as civilian police. They need a riot to justify that last power grab. When you understand that fact, you can see the common thread in all of the random cruelty out of the gate. It’s not called project 2026.
You know who never rioted? Luigi. I think we should all follow his lead.
Also the the goals of accelerationism, though it claims that such is a precursor to revolution and utopia.
These people never learned why and how Caucescu got what he got. Can’t wait for them to learn first hand!
Putin’s nightmare about Gaddafi. Benito Mussolini displayed in the street. Ceaușescu’s last moment on video.
Team Luigi needs more branding.
Go ahead and take mine away. See what happens. I dare you.
Were you clearly diagnosed with clinical depression?
Or did your doctor not know what was wrong, said it was stress related and gave you pills to go away?
This is a really shitty attempt at a gotcha question, just so you know. I have depression, any neurologist with an MRI of my brain can tell you that, because there’s a softball sized cyst and the structural placement of it makes depression highly likely, it’s too big to be removed all the empty space would lead to shifting, brain bleeds, embolism, seizures, and strokes which would kill me really quickly. So shunt and valve and medication is my only treatment option. Anti depressants aren’t just for people who are having a bad week and don’t know how to cope, or people behind on their self care, or people who are facing a life challenge and just need a little pick me up. Anti depressants are being taken largely by people who go to their doctor and say ‘‘I’m so depressed I no longer enjoy the things I used to love doing, I’m struggling to remember what happy feels like, and I can’t stop contemplating the end of my life’’ it’s for people with clear diagnosable depression. Please stop acting like you have any room to jump up people’s ass about the maintenance meds they’ve been taking for years that get them results when nothing else did. Do you think a jog a day is the solution? It’s not at all. If that was the solution, this wouldn’t ever be a medical problem in the first place, easy solutions don’t require medical intervention. If you really think the average person on antidepressants didn’t spend YEARS trying to solve it without any medical aid, your delusional.
I’m not on antidepressants (except for anxiety treatment) but people love to act the same about my adhd meds. Never mind that I’m the first to say that in order to have my adhd under control I need to utilize a combination of good rest, regular exercise, large amounts of socialization, good diet, and Adderall which plays a larger individual role than any of the others. But no, people think that because the others are important they must be capable of being sufficient. But I can’t even maintain the others without Adderall. I imagine a lot of depressed people can relate to that. Depression meds sound awful and yet so many swear by theirs, so rather than assuming brainwashing I’m gonna assume they help.
I have depression
OK, so you are in the first category
Please stop acting like you have any room to jump up people’s ass about the maintenance meds they’ve been taking for years that get them results when nothing else did.
I’m not. My beef is with the doctors who prescribe antidepressants without proper investigation of the causes of the symptoms.
Do you think a jog a day is the solution?
There will be some cases where this is true. But a jog a day is much more effort than having a pill. Particularly if you are out of shape. A pill is much easier for a doctor to prescribe.
easy solutions don’t require medical intervention.
Unfortunately paying customers want a medical solution. So they get prescribed a pharmaceutical solution.
If you really think the average person on antidepressants didn’t spend YEARS trying to solve it without any medical aid, your delusional.
My beef is with the doctors that prescribe antidepressants as a generic solution to all symptoms. Not the patients.
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I’m done discussing this with you.
Dude, writing a single word does not even begin a discussion.
My beef is with the doctors who prescribe antidepressants without proper investigation of the causes of the symptoms.
If thats the issue, then ban HIMS and HERS, and other mail order docs from advertising on TV or anywhere else.
Totally happy with this proposal.
Ok, no need to send people on SSRI’s to a labor camp, which is what has been proposed.
“I’m going to create these wellness farms where they can go to get off of illegal drugs, off of opiates, but also illegal drugs, other psychiatric drugs, if they want to, to get off of SSRIs, to get off of benzos, to get off of Adderall"
Sounds like SSRI’s are voluntary attendance. But actions are more important than words.
Do you have something worthwhile to bring up or are you just trolling?
The fact that some doctors prescribe medications they shouldn’t is an ongoing issue for the medical industry that will never go away as long as doctors and patients are humans and we have incomplete knowledge.
It is not a reason to confirm a crazy anti-science vaccine denier as secretary of HHS.
Not trolling. My first post inb this thread acknowledges legitimate uses. I’m just pointing out the silver lining of this policy.
Reducing public dependency on badly prescribed medication doesn’t seem evil or anti science, but big pharma won’t like it.
Data guy here. You’re kinda running into the same rationale used by fascists, I mean republicans, to cut welfare. That being: there exists some number of people that game the system, so lets put rules in place to fight them. Sounds good right?
The problem is this: what’s the actual added value of these new rules? For this example, what’s the ratio of badly prescribed medicines to correctly prescribed ones? How many people that need the medication have to be denied it to validate catching one bad actor? Is it better to have a few bad actors to make sure everyone gets help, or is it more important to be punitive and make sure that only the right people get the resource?
Well, there’s a rational way to answer that. How scarce is the resource? If a solid gold bar was what was required to treat a condition, than yeah you’re gonna need to make sure no one is wasting it. But if the treatment is common as dirt, why are we getting in the way?
What’s the cost of the system as-is? People take medications they don’t need and may experience side effects of this medicine. Given that wellbutrin is hardly a party drug, it’s not as if people are seeking this out recreationally. They want to feel better. And if it isn’t doing anything, or is making them feel worse, than the discussion with one’s doctor should end up with “let’s try something else” (YMMV, doctors are sometimes bad, patients are sometimes bad, I’m talking how a typical case should go in a quasi-sensible world).
And you know what’s worse? Anyone that isn’t the patient and the doctor being involved in that conversation.
As a data guy we need to explain why 11% of Americans over the age of 12 take an antidepressant. The USA is, yet again, a world leader.
RFKjr has an alternative solution. If it’s small scale and voluntary then costs to society are minimal. If it’s large scale and compulsory then it’s very fascist.
My opinion is that the medical profession should focus on the cause of the above statistic. Not the solution.
My hypothesis is that lazy doctors are being paid to prescribe antidepressants. Whenever they can’t find a solution they identify “stress”.
But what leads you to believe they are being honest or will proceed in a scientific and humane way?
That is the real concern here. Conservatives describing their intentions in ways that sound good on the surface is the oldest and most practiced technique they have. That is why all the context and history around this craziness is so important.
I think this policy is pure RFKjr. It’s not in project 2025 and conservatives wouldn’t endanger their big phama paychecks.
Now. It may be hijacked and twisted in its implementation. And I don’t think an environmental lawyer should be running health policy.
I think you are right to urge caution. The upsides are minimal and the potential downsides are massive.
This is my issue with all these “common sense” conservative ideas.
Yes, often common sense is good, but reality has complexity and nuance and you don’t get to just pretend them out of existence.
My beef is with the doctors who prescribe antidepressants without proper investigation of the causes of the symptoms.
I feel like you haven’t gone through the process yourself. I got driven to the point of confessing I would be better off dead before I was considered for anti depressants, it’s not just a “I’m sad today” “ok here are anti depressants”
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I’ve been down the other road. Countless doctors dismissing symptoms as stress rather than fibromyalgia and prescribing antidepressants.
https://www.northwell.edu/katz-institute-for-womens-health/articles/gaslighting-in-womens-health
as someone that was also given an Rx for antidepressants due to a “fibromyalgia” diagnosis, it’s a working theory that one of the reasons for that disorder is, in fact, neurotransmitter dysregulation (e.g., norepinephrine) so that’s not completely off-base… sorry. it sucks, but it has to be eliminated as a mechanism. is it possible you have undiagnosed hEDS? that was the case with me, and a geneticist was able to sus it out. please google it, because if you’ve been diagnosed with fibro it means you have a vague nebula of symptoms that could be any number of things (e.g., lupus) and requires an extensive differential diagnosis which usually ends up being something else (if you’re anything like me).
It’s that the symptoms constantly change that is so frustrating. Thanks for the tips.
This is a legitimate conversation, but not the time and place. I have had similar issues with SSRI’s being the only solution presented to me (despite previous experiences + knowledge of my body’s previous reactions to these medication being articulated in my refusal) and this is very much due to having an AFAB body.
However, SSRI’s are an effective medication for many people, and the priority in this conversation needs to be on this deranged attack on medical expertise and established understandings of the science. There very much are serious issues with diagnoses/prescriptions being used as alternatives to acknowledging societal problems and a way to make invisible/medically gaslight the understudied chronic illnesses primarily experienced by women, but there are also people who are chemically depressed and are being served by the chemical treatment model - attacks on this fact are profoundly unscientific and harmful and the fact that they are being made by someone potentially leading the medical “establishment” = DEFCON 1.
but there are also people who are chemically depressed and are being served by the chemical treatment model
I highlighted this group at the top of this thread. My beef is with dismissive doctors, not their chemically imbalanced patients.
Im more concerned about TV docs prescribing cialis to 50 year olds…
There is a fundamental misunderstanding that most folks have when it comes to anti-depressants. A lot of people think that you take prozac and it makes you feel “happy” or at least “better”. But the reality of it for me is, I take prozac, and stops my emotions from spiralling out of control.
My neurology is like an elderly person on an icy day, it has a tendency to slip and fall over. Anti-depressants are just a walker for my brain, gives me a good chance to not fall over and break a hip.
This, it doesn’t give me a joygasm, it just stops me from being overly paranoid
Yeah, my experience is similar - I take zoloft and it doesn’t make me feel good or happy all the time but it does make my otherwise crippling anxiety manageable by significantly lowering my base level of anxiety and decreasing the amount of anxiety “spikes” and “episodes” I get
You didn’t have to go that hard. You could have said “are you a doctor? ARE YOU MY DOCTORS? no? Then would you kindly stfu?”
Really they should have known better then to pick a gotcha out of an unknown situation
Oh yeah definitely. I always knew I had it, I’ve had it my whole life. You try being a suicidal 7-year-old and see how well you like it. I didn’t start getting better until my 30s.
You have my sympathy.
But I’m sure many lemmings reading this recognize the second “lazy doctor” scenario.
Where did you get your medical degree from again?
https://www.northwell.edu/katz-institute-for-womens-health/articles/gaslighting-in-womens-health
The down votes are from people who were diagnosed with “stress” and are now addicted to anti depressants.
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You have no place diagnosing people with no proven experience in the field of psychiatry, or pharmacology.
So stop parroting RFK talking points.
OK, I have no idea about the medical history of whoever is down voting. But it’s clear from the numbers that people are scared of their pills being taken away.
The only time I’ve had a similar reaction was when I suggested coffee should be banned. (It’s bad for the environment, more physically addictive than heroin and makes everyone’s breath smell terribly)
I’m not American so I don’t know what GPs are like in the US, but I don’t know of any anti depressants that are addictive. The addictive ones are the pain killers.
The down votes are from people who were diagnosed with “stress” and are now addicted to anti depressants.
The downvotes are from people who think your statements are ignorant lol
The down votes are from the victims of a medical industry that doesn’t allow doctors to say “I don’t know”.
You realize you’re doing the “lazy doctor” routine right now, right?
You already decided on an answer and when confronted with a discrepancy, you decided that your understanding is correct and this specific situation is the outlier.
That’s the exact same thought process you’re complaining about.
Not really.
I’m diagnosing a problem but my solution is to investigate more, not to sweep unknowns under the antidepressant carpet.
You aren’t a doctor. Stop acting like one, and stop assuming you know all doctor’s motives. SSRIs are an important tool and make many peoples lives tolerable. No one’s making you or anyone take anything.
You aren’t a doctor. Stop acting like one,
I’m not seeing patients or providing medical advice. Typing on lemmy is nothing like acting like a doctor.
SSRIs are an important tool and make many peoples lives tolerable.
Agreed.
Also prozac and other drugs are prescribed for “stress related” symptoms when doctors can’t find the root cause and when patients demand a pharmaceutical solution.
I’m diagnosing a problem
Were you clearly diagnosed with clinical depression?
Lmfao, such detective work.
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I have experienced lazy doctors who dismiss everything as stress.
Ask your doctor friends what the phrase “stress related” really means.
I have experienced lazy doctors who dismiss everything as stress
You think people are getting depression diagnosis and SSRIs on that?
Just admit you’re completely uninformed and stay out of discussions in which you are so in future, dude
No. I made that distinction at the top of this thread.
You don’t need clinical depression for a lazy doctor to prescribe Xanax.
Big same fellow person. Lookin forward to seeing you in the wellness camps, and looking forward to the hell we’re going to raise.
Same here. Even down to the same age.
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Diagnosed. And I medicate with cannabis, to the objection of the Federal government.
And, last I checked, whatever gets prescribed is between me and my doctor.
Amazing, how Reich Wingers, once again, want Big Gubmint regulating our bodies.
There’s a lot of reports in this thread specifically around the “lazy doctors” and “it’s just stress” prescriptions.
This is where reddit would lock the thread and go “too much trouble to moderate.” That’s never been my personal policy.
But here’s the thing… “Lazy” may not be technically correct, but it’s been proven over and over again that if you are a woman or a minority or other marginalized group, medical professionals often are not listening to you.
https://www.northwell.edu/katz-institute-for-womens-health/articles/gaslighting-in-womens-health
RFK is one of those assholes who was depressed, changed his diet and worked out, and that was enough. And he thinks that solution works for everyone. And now he has power.
Fuck anyone that takes my SSRIs away from me. That would actually make me leave the country.
I hate to say it, but you probably can’t. People with diagnosed mental illnesses are often banned by other countries from immigrating.
I have EU citizenship.
Then good luck and I hope you make it out soon!
Still got meds. So fighting the good fight right now.
If you have the means, please gtfo while you can and let em burn.
Is that really true?
It’s pretty tough to migrate to Australia for example and I don’t think this is really a relevant question.
You have to be mad to want to live somewhere where everything is trying to kill you.
That’s just a dumb meme, nothing has been successfully able to kill me yet.
In all seriousness though, Australia is a popular destination for migrants.
It was a jokey comment. I steered away from mad max and insulting actual Australians.
RFK is one of those assholes who was depressed, changed his diet and worked out, and that was enough. And he thinks that solution works for everyone. And now he has power.
Can’t say about enough, but for me too antidepressants were not very effective (and also with some emotional downsides, I eagerly believe stats about ADs and suicide rates), and physical exercise plus simpler and healthier food (basically minimize sugar) did help me more. However, there might be a reversal here - maybe changes in weather and life events caused slight improvement in my mood first, and then came exercise and healthier food.
In any case this is considered very light depression.
Suppose depression and anxiety can take a variety of different forms, arise from a variety of different causes, manifest in a variety of ways, and respond differently to a variety of treatments.
In your case your particular malady didn’t respond to medication but did respond to other treatments.
It sounds like you can readily acknowledge that not everyone is experiencing the same illness and that often diet / exercise / lifestyle just isn’t relevant.
The problem @[email protected] is referring to is when people who successfully treat their illness with diet and exercise assume that everyone elses illness will respond in the same way.
Being rich also doesn’t hurt
The only thing that worked out for him was being rich. Everything else is just an excuse/wishful thinking at best and a lie to be used to manipulate others at worst.
This is a very valid point.
Eating healthy, exercising regularly, time to relax and meditate etc. are luxuries not easily available to the poor. But a $1 pill is.
His brain was eaten by worm, isn’t that how his depression got cured?
“Well, have you tried not being sad?”
- my parents
Jesus there is another solution don’t walk away from your home this is your cross to bear.
When the options are “I don’t get the drugs that will stop me from killing myself” or “find a country that will give them to me,” I think there’s a pretty clear choice.
Are those the only two options? What if you did your ancestors proud and dumped tea in the harbor. I mean if you save your country you violate no law. Not a very creative problem solver, unusual for a squid.
Yes, if you will commit suicide if you don’t have the drugs you need, those are your only options if you want to stay alive.
Are you one of those “smile more” people?
Also, maybe don’t do your racist ancestors who tried to blame their protest on indigenous Americans proud? What with that being super fucking racist? You do know that’s what happened, right? They dressed up like indigenous people and then dumped the tea in the harbor.
Oh shit, wouldn’t this be grounds for asking for asylum?
there is another solution
What’s your solution to being suicidal even after trying all of the non-pharma solutions for decades?
Walk on water, water into wine, so obvious water into blood. We need to extract the brain worm with an industrial waterjet cutter! Blessed by a native natural shaman of course to ward off the scientist’s curse.
this is your cross to bear
The fuck it is. I didn’t vote for Trump and I sure as shit didn’t sign off on Elon Musk’s god damned meddling.
Buddy you missed the guys comment I was replying to was named Jesus.
“simplejack” = “Jesus”? I’m not seeing it.
More proof that the inmates have taken over the asylum.
According to the article RFK wants to find the “root causes” of a broad range of conditions, including autism, ADHD, asthma, obesity, multiple sclerosis, and psoriasis. Sure thing, while the his fellow fucking MAGAts shut down and destroy US medical research and increase deregulations pertaining to the food industry and pollution.
Don’t worry the root cause is going to be vaccines. No need for science when you already have the answer.
Republicans finding the major contributors to those conditions is going to be like that scroll of truth comic. They’ll only care if it turns out that the root cause is gay people existing or people being in unions or something (spoiler alert: it isn’t, but that won’t stop them).
Forced labor farms for those deemed mentally unfit for society. That’s his solution. Fuck that, fuck him, and fuck the fascist slavery fetish.
Wait? Did he really say that?
Yes.
Yes, he’s been pushing that for a while
“I’ve seen this beautiful model that they have in Italy called San Patrignano, where there are 2,000 kids who work on a large farm in a healing center … and that’s what we need to build here,” Kennedy said during a town hall-style appearance on the cable channel NewsNation last year.
According to Kennedy’s plan, outlined in interviews and social media posts, Americans experiencing addiction would go to San Patrignano-style camps voluntarily, or they could be pressured or coerced into accepting care, with a threat of incarceration for those who refuse care.
But the San Patrignano program has been controversial and was featured in a 2020 Netflix documentary that included images of people with addiction allegedly being held in shackles or confined in cages. The farm’s current leaders have described the documentary as biased and unfair
The farm’s current leaders are the fucking mafia.
Jesus Fucking Christ
They put a terminator as the Secretary of Health. He doesn’t know what humans need.
Suicide rates are going to spike if this idiot gets his way. I may well be one of the statistics before it’s over, if he takes away my access to medicine that has enabled me to live a somewhat normal life, not that it’ll matter to him or his ilk. The cruelty, as the kids like to say, is the point, I guess.
Please remember, when the meds are gone and life is still going on, when they’re threatening to put us in camps, remember… once you’re in a camp with other like-minded people who have been wronged, what ‘fun’ we can have together. That’s what will keep me going.
Camps like those worked out great for the Norsefire party.
I will pry my SSRIs from your cold, dead hands.
I have never felt more depressed then now. He’s causing depression and taking away meds for it. Fuck this feedback loop
i love the tough talk from all the edgelords saying “yeah wait until you take mine away then i’ll be a real problem for you” – lol they’ll just lobotomize you. y’all have no idea what healthcare was like before anti-depressants, huh? you don’t get a choice what happens to you after you act out ONCE in public. sure, talk your smack, it feels good… but, personally? i’m scared. my grandma used to get shocks, and that’s when we actually had asylums… now we don’t. pretty scary stuff, ngl. not enough room in jails for all of us… they’ll find other solutions.
This is of course not real. Acting out in public once may get you punched or a disorderly conduct charge but it is unlikely to enable anyone to lock you up let alone star in a remake of one flew over the cukoos nest because a lot of law and case law has happened since.
Someone acting erratically will not survive a police encounter.
Police have literally millions of interactions with people acting erratically per year in the US. All of Europe has millions of interactions per year.
Our police are defective not because they literally massacre every person acting erratically but because between near a million sworn officers dealing with 100s of millions of people roughly a thousand kill someone this year. This is defective because others deal with similar situations whilst killing almost none.
Setting up a fantasy world where a single interaction is sure to lead to fatality is bad because its trivially disproved and the dismissal risks dismissing the ACTUAL problem of those thousand poor fuckers who died many for no good reason.
Do you think those laws matter? You aren’t living in the democratic republic you were living in six months ago.
Well dumb dumb this is still a state law issue it hasn’t changed
Isn’t your executive currently saying they dictate the law though?
This doesn’t make the parent posters fantasy divorced entirely from reality true
As an aside, electro convulsive shock therapy is still done. It’s weirdly been proven useful for the treatment of some disorders. But as far as I know, it’s now done with full consent.
But now, as back then, no one really truly understands the full mechanism that causes it to suppress symptoms.
I grew up autistic and had adhd and an anxiety disorder when most people had no idea what those were. My autism wasn’t that bad… but the way how people treated it they acted like I was less than human.
Yeah my great grandpa was in and out of the institution for anxiety and it was a miracle he kept his brain in one piece.
Antidepressants have problems. They’re often treated as the first thing to throw at someone who has mental issues regardless of whether or not they’re warranted (back in the day it was a common story for trans people to get prescribed antidepressants instead of hormones and have to wade through the Dr’s crap), but the modern system in which people with mental illnesses are given medication that’s peer reviewed and have some degree of autonomy over treatment is worth all this.
If anyone knows about lobotomies, it would be the Kennedys. Just look at Rosemary Kennedy.
Yea, perhaps a certain Kennedy in Washington DC needs a Lobotomy
This will end well /s
“When government researchers follow Kennedy’s orders to study SSRIs, they’ll find reams of research, including long-term studies, that have found that the drugs are safe and non-addictive.“
Then they will ignore science and do whatever the administration tells them to or they get fired and replaced with someone who will.
They disparagingly refer to it as “the cult of ‘science’” so that’s a foregone conclusion. Complex issues as interpreted by people whose only ideology is “fuck all that pansy ass shit, man up!!!”
Reams of research didn’t stop him from continuing to push all his bullshit about autism.
Then the goal posts will be moved. That’s how this denialist stuff works.
