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Oh wow, something from Belgium showed up here. Obviously most reactions are the same here. But I would urge everyone to read more details about this. As there much more uncomfortable nuance here. One of those being that the dude is also in agreement he did something wrong. He also gave a relatively accurate description of the events of that evening that got proven with phone records and CCTV at different locations. Making his account of what happened at the least somewhat reliable.
Obviously the woman could not consent because she was drunk as fuck. And she’s allowed to get drunk as fuck without being taken advantage off. CCTV showed them kissing at the bar they met. Phone records show he tried to call her friend she was supposed to go home with. CCTV shows them going to that friend’s dorm and not getting in and waiting there for half an hour. Then they walk back to his place while kissing on the way there. The morning after his messages to her indicate he wants to continue seeing her. (https://m.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20250402_95297572?journeybuilder=nopaywall but it’s in Dutch)
Again, she could not consent, and he as the least drunk of both of them bears the responsibility of this. I do think he should have had some form of punishment above of what he got and for the woman’s feeling of safety a restraining order like she asked. And something that would have made mandatory counselling and follow-up possible. Not to mention that although justice in Belgium isn’t supposed to be revenge, it should also cause some sort of satisfaction for the victim.
This situation just shows that the definition of rape over the decades has become more complex and nuanced, but unfortunately the tools to deal with this have not. This dude definitely did something wrong, but he’s not just a vicious predator.
If they were both drunk, could either of them consent?
And how do you determine who raped who if it’s a question about how drunk you were? I have had a lot of nights out in my teens (european), where I have no clue what happened after midnight, but didn’t get home until 05:00. If I had sex with someone pretty much equally as drunk, who did the raping?
Uh, when you walk into an alley to piss, and there’s an unconcious girl with a dude on top of her humping, you kinda know…
And that’s exactly what happened.
I’m talking about this case with the medical student.
Noted.
I’m talking about Brock Turner, AKA Allen Turner, who was caught doing exactly what I posited, and was let off because he was a rich white male, and had a “promising future.”
It really depends on how drunk you actually were at the time, and that’s what makes cases like this so difficult. Generally speaking, simply being drunk isn’t enough.
Hell, even being blackout drunk isn’t enough. Because you can be blacked out without being passed out; Blackout drunk simply means your brain isn’t recording things to your memory, so you won’t remember it after you sober up. Contrary to popular belief, alcohol doesn’t make you forget existing memories. It just makes it so you don’t ever commit things to memory in the first place. That’s what happens when you’re blackout drunk.
In order to be incapable of consenting, you need to be so drunk that you can’t comprehend what is happening. Because informed consent requires two things: Information anbout what is happening, and enthusiasm. You can have both, even while blackout drunk. Because you forgetting your enthusiasm the next morning doesn’t automatically make it rape. After all, you were informed and enthusiastic when it was happening, so you consented. If you were capable of understanding what was happening and were enthusiastic, it’s not legally considered rape.
And that’s a surprisingly high threshold to beat. You usually need to prove to the courts that you were basically passed out (and therefore unable to be informed about what was happening) before they’ll consider it rape.
Even if people would colloquially consider drunk sex rape, that’s not typically how the courts view it. And that’s a large part of why so many accused rapists get off without a guilty verdict; The victim basically has to prove that they were missing either information or enthusiasm to overcome the accused’s “they consented to it” defense. And if the victim was blacked out and doesn’t even remember the evening, that becomes extremely difficult to do without outside witnesses corroborating that the victim was passed out and/or combative.
And hell, in cases like the Brock Turner one, even when the victim proves that she was passed out, the rapist can still get away with just a slap on the wrist.
You can’t legally consent to things if you aren’t of sound mind and body.
A lot of the commenters here can’t legally consent to anything, then
He can get away with it when he’s “Upstanding Citizen From An Impeccable Family, And This Would Ruin His Future.”
In other words, a rich male white kid. Whose daddy plays golf with the attorneys, and judge.
Because of the fallout about this the entire ruling was made public. It’s clear that the wording used everywhere is rage bait. Again I think he should not have gotten the sentence suspended but it’s not like the judges said it got suspended because he’s such a bright boy…
Brock Turner?
You mean convicted rapist Brock Turner?
I just want to make sure that’s the rapist Brock Turner you’re talking about and not some other Brock Turner.
I only know of one Brock Turner, and he definitely raped a woman, but the judge let him off easy because he has affluenze.
The judge decided that a punishment might jeopardize the rich kid’s future, and cited that he hadn’t been brought up to realize the consequences of his actions. To my naive understanding that seems like a really teachable moment.
By the way, in case anyone wasn’t sure: Brock Turner, the convicted rapist, raped a woman and got away with it because his parents are rich.
How dare you besmirch Brock Turner.
The convicted rapist FORMERLY known as Brock Turner is now known as Allen Turner!
Get it right!
/SARCASM
Fuck that guy. I hope it follows him the rest of his life.
Thank for making sure we all remember Brock Turner that changed his name to Allen Turner is a rapist!
Rapist Brock Turner, aka rapist Allen Turner, who got a 6-month slap-on-the-wrist sentence for what his father called (and I quote) “twenty minutes of action”? That rapist Brock Allen Turner? The one who only served 3 months?!
Yeah, Brock aka Allen Turner! The rapist who barely got inconvenienced after he raped a woman who was passed out. The one who had two guys testify against him because they interrupted him in the middle of raping someone.
That rapist Brock Turner.
Now known as Allen Turner. The Rapist.
“Hell, your Honor, he had whiskey dick! It took 13 minutes to get it up! How much damage could he have done!”
Disgusting.
I wonder if he would have felt the same if a bunch of Frat Bros had cornholed his son in a “Hazing Ritual.”
What does that matter if he was drunk to?
Apparently not too drunk to undress her, and himself, then insert himself.
This is rape.
??? She did consent, but while completely drunk. The argument being made is that she can’t consent while drunk, but he also consented while drunk. Did she rape him?
This is neckbeard level of thinking and it’s gross, she couldn’t walk on her own and he brought her to his place and raped her, his level of drunkness was faaaar lower. Disgusting humans everyone that says tjis is ok to do. But that’s what you get when you were born with a small ugly dick, you need girls to be drunk to start sucking that tiny penis
Should’ve bought a Realdoll if he likes lifeless bodies
There are different levels of being drunk. She was so drunk she blacked out and had trouble walking. He As drunk but can supply a recollection of what happened. There’s nuance like I said, but someone who can recollect events and relies on his rational actions where he called her friends can logically be considered to be more responsible for not taking into consideration she was too drunk to be able to consent.
Alcohol impairment can be very messy. I know someone who had 1 and a half drinks, had no speech slurring or obvious signs of being black-out drunk, but did not remember a third of the night the next day because she’s a lightweight that’s drank a single-digit number of times in her life (she’d also eaten very little that day and had some recent sleep debt). I would not have guessed she was blackout drunk, she was just talking about her problems and was articulate the entire time I saw her. If I didn’t know she had been drinking, I can’t think of how I would’ve known short of some kind of specific motor function test that’s made to suss that out/harder than just sitting around, talking, and occasionally going to the restroom. She just looked a little tired. When we spoke later, she didn’t remember basically anything after a certain point (a couple of hours’ worth) and wondered if some vague flashes of memories had been dreams. It was rather surprising to me.
That’s the difference between blackout, and passed out.
People who are blackout drunk can be walking and talking, and not remember anything later.
Passed out is unconscious.
I don’t understand what your point is in this context.
Oh… you didn’t hear
Wait, so women can’t have sex while drunk or else it’s automatically rape? TIL I rape my wife every time.
So, if you and I hang out, get drunk, you pass out, and I’m all up in ya, it’s not rape?
Cool. I"m going to a party next weekend. Want to go? What’s it going to be like? Drinking, fighting, crying, fucking. Who all’s going? Just me and you. Interested?
Disgusting human you are
Thank you for providing more information.
To add to this, the university decided to suspend him. The court did also order him to pay a fine to the victim.
Hey, I’m really young and talented! I would hope to one day meet an awesome playmate like Lulu Chu. She is awesome like Tera Patrick but in a more docile… Oh my wife said no. Sorry Lulu! Maybe pen pals? I’ll check with my wife.
And when I say I don’t trust judges and that the justice system of most places is broken for giving a single person the final decision power, based on whatever they think is right, people say I’m trolling.
Judges pull decisions out of their ass to fulfill whatever interest they have. Or sometimes just because they are stupid.
Good judges are super rare.
You’re absolutely right unfortunately. I had to witness myself. That day, I lost my believe in our justice system (that was in Germany).
Same here, judge didn’t know the law and denied my request, where another government body (that deals with that type of thing exclusively) already said I was right. Brazil
Yeah, better let the internet mob, who barely takes time to read an understand a newspaper article, pass judgement.
That’s a judiciary system I’d want to live under.
I talk about the power being in the hand of a single person, and your first alternative is the internet?
You went from black to white and forgot all the colors in between
Yeah in this case I think it’s more a case of “hey this guy looks kind of like my son”. In this case I think it led to a miscarriage of justice, but I think in other cases that kind of thinking could protect against excessively harsh punishments. In the end I think it comes down to inequality. Bigger inequality shrinks the pool of people judges can intuitively relate to, which in turn makes judgements more unequal.
And that is why DEI policies were first on the chopping block sadly.
And his victim wasn’t also young and talented? Are they concerned about how the victim will go on when this fucker walks back on campus?
So if he’s gonna rape as a med student, he’s definitely gonna rape as a doctor. And that judge is a rapist too, judging from their warped views
I thought the same thing. The judge is too lenient and I question their morality.
He probably did something similar in his past. Maybe raped a drunk girl at a party or similar while in undergrad. Never got caught for it, and never went on to do it again. So he figured if he can learn his lesson and not repeat the crime, why not this kid? Justice to the victims isn’t even considered.
Hey, Schmababaugh got away with it…
Boys will boys, and they like beer…
/s
The conviction will not appear on the man’s criminal record. However, if he reoffends, he will be sentenced for this rape as well as for the new offence.
Why wait to be proven wrong? I don’t understand. Rapists shouldn’t be doctors.
He claims that he asked her several times if she consented and that he had been given the impression that she did.
In his summing up the judge said “It has been proven that sexual intercourse took place at a time that she was in a state that meant that she couldn’t possibly consent to it. The offence is serious and unacceptable.”
Wow, we can both read! That’s awesome. Now one of us just has to work on their comprehension and maybe even finish the article next time…
You asked why wait. The point of jail and fines is to avoid reoffending. The judge thinks he won’t, and will be more valuable to society as a doctor than an inmate. Also If he does this again then he will get hit twice as hard.
Something tells me that they are not publishing his name because they’re betting that his future patients would feel differently. I would not want to see Dr. Rapist for any reason, even if he’s the best physician in the city.
But Dr Shacked Up With A Woman Once When They Were Both Drunk And She Was Too Drunk And He Should Have Known Better might be a bit more acceptable to some.
In his summing up the judge said “It has been proven that sexual intercourse took place at a time that she was in a state that meant that she couldn’t possibly consent to it. The offence is serious and unacceptable.”
Not interested in debating this. It’s obvious that someone with much more experience and education in this field disagreed with you even though he stupidly decided not to punish the perpetrator.
It’s obvious that someone with much more experience and education
“He’s clever when he agrees with me, so you’re stupid, but stupid when he doesn’t.”
No. You’re not interested in debating this because you’ve jumped to conclusions and you’re neither reading nor thinking.
Doctors get one rape…
JFC, I was afraid this was in the US. I’m not pleased to realize there are other places just as fucked up. Though in the US the excuse for letting him off would have to be that he was rich, not brilliant.
Belgium, for those wondering.
In the US and a lot of other countries this wouldn’t even be considered rape. It’s good that it is here, but this case isn’t quite as easy as it seems on first glance.
I think the judge made the right call here. It was a drunk hook up where both people were drunk, but conscious. The girl was quite a bit more drunk to the point where she was ruled unable to consent in a legal senses despite the fact she did and several witnesses confirmed she did.
Again, still rape, which is sex without consent, but very far from the vicious predator most people are picturing right now.
Yes, she made contact with him, he called her GF’s who didn’t answer bcs it was late and finally went home with him.
Bcs she was too drunk it is considered rape.
This article is doesn’t accurately tell the events.
But I agree he wouldn’t be let off if he wasn’t a privileged student.
NAME AND FUCKING SHAME
No. Keep that shit practice in the US.
Yalls have a guy convicted of rape facing zero consequences, and you think saying his name is a shit practice?
Yes. There is a due process that needs to be observed, and exposing people just because you don’t agree with the ruling is exactly the argument fascists and dictators bring to push their agenda and discredit the court of law.
You might also look further into this specific case, the article is very one-sided and meant to create outrage.
- The alleged perpetrator tried to bring the woman home but her roommate didn’t open for over 30 min
- They’ve been making out in the bar and been observed holding hands and kissing by a cctv along the way
- Eventually they ended up in the guys house where they had sex, which she later said was nonconsensual, which is very much possible. However, witnesses say the guy was also drunk beyond being able to reasonably give consent.
- He was given a suspended 3 year sentence, not a free pass.
Point 2 sounds like you think kissing someone entitles you to rape them.
It doesn’t.
I never said nor I implied that. The point made during the trial was that the people were observed to be intimate and drunk, so whatever happened next was at least not premeditated.
so his roomie was Brock Turner
How about you actually read the article first?
1 there is going to be a new trial bcs they appealed.
2 We have standards and keep away from mob justice, public shaming, the death penalty and indentured servitude slavery.
Your uncivilised, appauling country is no reference for civilised counties, on the contrary.We have standards and keep away from mob justice, public shaming, the death penalty and indentured servitude slavery.
Seriously, the US has a lot of our own shit to get together, but lets not throw too many stones over the moral superiority of european countries either. Especially right now, in the face of the growing influence of far-right parties across the, ahem, “civilized” world. The US is a whole omnibus of cautionary tales right now, it might be worth hearing one or two of them out instead of going directly to “unbelievable cliche”.
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Thank you, I’m not allowed yet to upload pictures
He looks like a rich spoiled fuckboy. I hope no hospital hires him
hey we love these, wait wut
look it’s inappropriate to the extreme to make fun of names, so fuck Dr. Ruben Van Stiphout and he sounds like a little shit
Judges who do this need to be… whatever the judge equivalent of disbarred is. It’s wrong.
This reminds me of the rapist Brock Turner, aka Allen Turner, the rapist.
Oh Allen Turner? Who started using his middle name instead of Brock Turner? Because he raped an unconscious woman behind a dumpster? That guy? (Brock/Allen Turner?)
I just want to be sure I’m thinking of the right guy…
https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/06/us/sexual-assault-brock-turner-stanford/index.html
This Brock Allen Turner right?
Does the rapist Brock Allen Turner still live in Oakwood Ohio, a wealthy suburb of Dayton Ohio?
Hey all, anyone who cares about/is interested in knowing more about the crime committed by the rapist Brock Allen Turner should read Know My Name, written by the woman who was actually assaulted, Chanel Miller.
I highly recommend listening to the audio book, as she reads it herself and has a powerful voice.
Yes, the rapist Brock Allen Turner is also the first thing that crossed my mind. How he got away after raping that girl and now is even trying to change his name.
There is going to be a new trial, everybody chill out.
fuck if i understand belgian law, but it seems appropriate to say what the fuck is this
I don’t think it matters where this happened. IMO, “what the fuck is this” is the appropriate reaction to giving no consequences for rape. This would also apply to a litany of other offenses, but in this case rape.
I also think rape is one of the worst things anyone could do to another, right up there with slavery, torture, and other, similar things. I would consider murder to be less offensive, since at least then the person doesn’t have to work through the trauma after. It’s a mercy. Still unacceptable in a civilized society, but anything you have to live the rest of your life dealing with, is worse IMO.
A fate worse than death. In this case, getting SA’d, and having your attacker convicted and let go because of bullshit like this. Idk about you all, but that would fuck me right up.
Well let’s Brock Allen Turner this motherfucker
What’s the guys name? You’re right that we need to treat him like that other rapist, Brock Allen Turner.
Are you guys talking about the rapist, Brock Allen Turner, or a different rapist named Brock Allen Turner?
There’s just the one Brock Allen Turner, rapist, of which I’m aware. This other guy, though, needs to be made as famous as Brock.
He was training to be a gynecologist, so definitely would rape again. Don’t wish for him to have another victim but sounds like a second offense gets him a sentence for the first one as well.
His training to be a gynecologist is irrelevant. Please do not propagate the myth that men go into gynecology to take advantage of women. If he’s a rapist, that’s independent.
unrelated to male gynecologists in general, this particular gynecologist is a rapist and will have lots of access to vulnerable victims.
Seems like his goal from the beginning
They were both drunk. She was more drunk.
yeah i fail to see how this is rape. i guess every drunken hookup we later regret is a rape
If your definition of every drunken hookup is, that they are unable to stand on their own…
So you like to fuck lifeless bodies? Fucking necrophile 🤢
They are cold, unless you are in time
She was unable to walk-drunk, he got her home.
This guy wants to be a gynaecologist for fucks sake.what does gynaecology have to do with this?
Really?
You don’t see a problem with this guy being alone in a room with a woman in a vulnerable position having her genitals touched?If there’s a problem with him being a doctor, he shouldn’t be a doctor. The idea that vaginas are somehow especially vulnerable is mysticism.
I don’t think you understand the problem here.
Thanks for pointing this out.
He claims that he asked her several times if she consented and that he had been given the impression that she did.
Seems like it was more of an “unintentional rape”, like manslaughter is unintentional murder. Wrong: yes. Bad judgment: yes. Deliberate malice: maybe not.
