“Yes don’t vote at all to get rid of fascism”
two words: third parties
Tell me you don’t understand American politics without telling me you don’t understand American politics
Let’s say that if in every Presidential and Congressional election from 2028 to 2058, everyone who’d otherwise vote for 3rd parties instead voted Democrat, and Democrats always won the White House, >45% of the House and Senate each, always had a majority in at least 1 house, and at least 1/2 the time won majorities in both houses.
Do you think the US would be any closer to voter reform—e.g. proportional representation, ranked ballots, whatever, even re-drawing districts more sensibly?
wp:2024 United States presidential election#Results by state
If 1.5 million Californians who voted for Harris, instead voted for Trump, Harris would have still won that state;
or,
If 3 million Californians who voted for Harris, instead voted for 3rd parties (e.g. Stein), Harris would have still won that state.
4 835 250 Texans voted for Harris. That’s more votes for Harris than any other state besides California. It was still over 1.5 million votes less than what Trump got in Texas.
If those who voted for Harris in Texas instead voted 3rd party, Harris would be no worse the loser in terms of Texan Electoral votes.
But yeah, I have no understanding of American politics.
(minor correction about 20 minutes after posting: for 3rd party into for 3rd parties)
The best a third party can hope for us to split the vote from whatever majority party they are most like and allow the other side to win. And only one time in our history has a third party gotten more votes than the party it split from. Teddy Roosevelt, Bull Moose Party, 1912
The best a third party can hope for us to split the vote from whatever majority party they are most like and allow the other side to win.
Progressive Democrats in non-swing states can vote 3rd party and scare future delegates and contenders into being more progressive. Also, they could support Libertarians and Constitutionalists a little in non-swing states.
source for pic: wc:File:Progressive Moose walking.png
The Progressive Party, popularly nicknamed the Bull Moose Party, was a third party in the United States formed in 1912 by former president Theodore Roosevelt after he lost the presidential nomination of the Republican Party to his former protégé turned rival, incumbent president William Howard Taft. The new party was known for taking advanced positions on progressive reforms and attracting leading national reformers. The party was also ideologically deeply connected with America’s radical-liberal tradition.[2]
wp:1912 United States presidential election
In 1848, it was just the Democrats and the Whigs.
Then in 1856, the Republicans ran their first candidate for President: John C. Frémont;
and in 1860, it was Lincoln.
(minor correction about 3 hours after replying: “and in 1856, it was Lincoln.” to “and in 1860, it was Lincoln.”)
Lol. Why would I support Libertarians? They’re dumber than Trump supporters and have about as many solutions when you inquire.
See, you actually think that there’s a good 3rd party worth voting for.
There’s not.
Trump got 312 Electoral College votes, while Harris got 226.
If Trump lost 44 of those votes to Harris, she would be President today.
If you got 120 000 Georgians, 60 000 Nevadans, 121 000 Pennsyvanians, 90 000 Michiganders and 30 000 Wisconsinites who voted for Trump last year to instead vote for wp:Chase Oliver, Trump would have lost 46 Electoral College votes to Harris.
I think firewitch’s point was that third parties almost by definition have zero chance of getting a candidate elected in a first past the post system. This is pretty common knowledge.
I don’t think it’s zero, but it’s quite unlikely for the next few decades at least.
My point is if an American is in a non-swing state, then wt:thons vote counts for little: so thon might as well vote for thons heart, and maybe the number of votes might get attention.
Ah, I see, you have done the math. Ok, this is the only condition which I would consider voting 3rd party not morally dubious. Thanks!
two words: third parties
Two words: NOT VIABLE
Unless you completely, or mostly, agree with Trump or Harris—and I repeat, agree, not just consider one the lesser evil—then no one is viable.
A vote for Harris in a non-swing state was a vote wasted.
Right, and not voting at all is the surefire way to make third parties happen. Sure.
So, ultimately this whole thing hangs on how possible or likely is making the rise of a significant third party
I vote for 3rd parties, but people say I should vote for the lesser-evil wing of the 2-party-state.
I vote for 3rd parties
I applaud you if you vote 3rd party in local/state elections. But if you’re voting 3rd party in a presidential election, you’re dumber than the chair you’re sitting on right now.
As a Canadian I don’t vote in US elections,
but please, tell me why those who voted for Presidential candidates other than Trump or Harris in non-swing states, or who are very much concerned about Palestine, the US military-industrial complex, or IP (i.e. “intellectual property”) trolls are dumber than chairs.
That is because you are effectively throwing your vote away.
Or you don’t care or want to give the more evil of the two dominate parties a small advantage while telling yourself you are good. I guess you do you.
Please read my other reply ITT: https://lemmy.world/post/29892234/17151202 .
Thanks, yes, in this case I think it makes sense to vote third party.
Instant runoff voting, then third parties
and the run-off in 2024 would be Trump versus Harris, and in 1992, Bush versus Clinton.
If we assume the first round goes the same, but without a spoiler effect third parties would do better in the first round.
IIUC, in neither the 1992 nor 2024 Presidential elections did a candidate win a (popular) majority.
If those who voted for Perot instead voted for Clinton, Clinton would still have been elected, probably with a majority. If they voted for Bush, then he’d been elected, probably with a majority, and those-more-left-wing-than-Republicans would have been (more) disappointed.
If those who voted for 3rd parties last year instead voted for Harris, she still would have lost the first round, including Michigan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election#Results_by_state ). I doubt she would have won the run-off.
I suppose run-offs are interesting when there are strong 3rd party candidates. As this is not currently the case in the USA, it’d mean little—the 2 party-state continues (and multi-millionaire Democrats would still complain about Stein, Greens, and/or other alternative parties).
People have a hard time with percentages, propensity, likelihood, etc. They can only think in binary terms. I used to think it was the right but looks like it’s everyone.
Both sides’d themselves into proto-fascism. And taking us along for the ride.
Fucking morons.
Why are you blaming leftists for Trumps win? We make up like 1% of the population, tops. You should instead point the finger at Republicans for voting for him. Or the Dems for running a totally weak and ineffectual campaign. (Or how about the oligarchs who only want to divide us so that they can rob us blind?)
Absolutely. Trump only goes more insane. At least with Kamala we would have had a chance to push left policies, and they wouldn’t be going directly to fucking fascism, unlike t-Rump.
I always just post this article.
Literally the first fucking sentence.
Vice President and Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris said Washington will continue to pressure Israel and other players in the Middle East to reach a ceasefire deal in Gaza
She said she’d continue pressure that wasn’t happening? Wow, what a fucking saint.
Former Israeli ambassador, Michael Herzog, made a startling admission about Biden’s support: “God did the State of Israel a favour that Biden was the president during this period. We fought [in Gaza] for over a year and the administration never came to us and said, ‘ceasefire now.’ It never did. And that’s not to be taken for granted.”
Biden never pressured Israel for ceasefire, as Israeli officials boast of exploiting US support
For the first four months of the Gaza war, the Biden administration opposed a full ceasefire, instead opting at best for a temporary “pause” to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid, which was briefly achieved in late November 2023. Biden said earlier that month: “a cease-fire is not peace… every cease-fire is time [Hamas members] exploit to rebuild their stockpile of rockets, reposition fighters and restart the killing.”
A senior member of Israel’s negotiating team said in April that “Since January, it’s clear to everyone that we’re not conducting negotiations. It happens again and again: You get a mandate during the day, then the prime minister makes phone calls at night, instructs ‘don’t say that’ and ‘I’m not approving this,’ thus bypassing both the team leaders and the war cabinet.”
Throughout this period, Biden refrained completely from publicly calling out Netanyahu for explicitly sabotaging the talks.
On May 5, Hamas accepted the April proposal with reservations and amendments, but before the Israeli negotiating team got to formulate a response, Israel’s prime minister rushed to denounce Hamas’ position as “delusional” and ordered the immediate invasion of Rafah on May 7.
Biden, who had promised to halt arm supplies to Israel if it violated his “red line” of invading Rafah, decided to instead suspend one shipment of MK-84 2,000-pound bombs to Israel and nothing more.
After lengthy negotiations, on July 2 Hamas accepted an updated Biden proposal with minor amendments, particularly relating to assurances that the ceasefire would lead to ending the war instead of a mere pause, according to multiple senior Arab and Palestinian officials involved in the talks. Hamas were informed that the US and Israeli negotiating team were both on board. However, a few days later, Netanyahu issued four new “non-negotiable” conditions that mediators and even Israeli security officials saw as intentionally sabotaging the deal. The conditions were: resuming the war after a pause “until [Israel’s] war aims are achieved”; no IDF withdrawal from the Philadelphia corridor between Rafah and Egypt; Israel would restrict the return of over one million displaced Gazans to the Northern half of the enclave; maximizing the number of living hostages to be released in the first phase.
In August, ahead of the Democratic National Convention, the US opened a renewed round of negotiations, having received Iranian and Hezbollah promises of refraining from retaliation if a deal was reached.
Instead of building upon Biden’s proposal and pressing Israel to compromise, the Americans simply incorporated Netanyahu’s four impossible conditions as “a bridging proposal.” They attempted to entice Hamas to the table by getting Israel to reduce its veto on which Palestinian detainees it would release in a deal (Hamas presented a list of 300 heavily sentenced individuals, “the VIPs.” Netanyahu vetoed 100 names, including Marwan Barghouti, and insisted on only releasing prisoners with less than 22 years left in their sentence. The Americans lowered this veto to 75 names then 65 in August, per a senior Arab mediator).
As soon as the DNC ended, Biden blamed Hamas again for the failure of the talks, and effectively stopped trying to get a deal, with US officials declaring in September that a ceasefire deal has become unlikely during Biden’s term. Since then, the White House has attempted to re-write history and promote an official narrative blaming Hamas for Netanyahu’s systematic foiling of the talks.
The Biden Administration’s False History of Ceasefire Negotiations
Sorry to make you read more than the first sentence of an article. In fact I suggest you read the whole thing, since I picked out these quotes pretty arbitrarily. I know you won’t though, because you probably think you’re immune to propaganda so long as you only read the “right” news that just happens to be entirely in agreement with both you and the status quo that has allowed a genocide to happen before our eyes.
Thanks, tankie. Trump appreciates your non vote.
tankie looking at Kamala Harris and Donald Trump standing next to each other ‘im seeing double! four liberals!’
In Sweden the far-right tried to play this game. They started chirping about the social democrats being rasist and made a list on like an A4 with names and events. Then the same was done to them, matching the font, their list was taken up a skylift and holding one end they folded it out to the ground in a television program.
In the US, the ‘left’ would just amplify the voice of the far-right.
Good on Swedish voters for being less stupid than we are.
Well, I would not give them that much credit. The majority governing coallition is with the far-right. They were clear before the election they were going to work with the far-right. They have a common platform with the far right which has a large overlap with e.g. Trumps; mass deportation of immigrants (like for reasons like being a victim of a crime), slashing government agencies, extreme restrictions on free speech, and so on. It is just a bit slower here when it comes to reaching their goals.
Based
People who refuse to vote when there is a clearly superior option deserve whatever the greater evil brings forth when they win.
Aka “have the day you voted for”.
People who voted for the lesser evil is still voting for evil
Given that you can act (in this case vote), your hands are more dirty permitting the worse evil to win through inaction.
You don’t get to clean your hands of things when you have the power to act to effect the outcome.
So saying “People voted for evil” is a selective self-benefiting myopia. Vote abstainers are not virtuous, they are a narcissists.
And not voting is the greatest evil.
“I would proudly vote for Hitler if slightly to the right of Hitler was on the ballot”. Good fucking job, you’re voting for Hitler. If you vote for Hitler you also deserve slightly to the right of Hitler.
Exactly
Lol. You sweet summer child.
And people who didn’t vote for the lesser evil could have helped avoid the greater evil, but chose not to.
Even when there isn’t a clearly superior option; there’s no excuse to not vote in the U. S. when the right to vote is such a pivotable portion of your history. We are barely over a half century away; only a mere 60 years. Unconscionable.
Non-voters are beneath Trump supporters in my opinion. They’re the lowest of the low. A complete failure to understand their civic duty that a ton of people died to allow them to have. At least Trump supporters get involved. In the worst, dumbest possible way, but involved nonetheless.
If voting is a right, then surely not voting is also a right. You seem to be confusing it with the word “responsibility.”
Considering I never said that one doesn’t have the right to not vote, I don’t believe I am; but you are correct that I consider it a responsibility.
On the one hand, corporatist party, on the other, literal fascists. Yes, clearly there is no superior option.
You seem to be deriving meaning unstated in my comment.
Then maybe vote for a third party.
I simply cannot grasp why some people believe voting 3rd party in a presidential election isn’t one of the dumbest possible things you can do in life.
Like, beyond the fact that the 3rd party candidate with the most votes in 2024 got a whopping HALF OF A SINGLE PERCENT of the total votes cast, meaning a 3rd party literally cannot win, there’s still the reality that even if they did win, no 3rd party has A SINGLE MEMBER IN CONGRESS, so if a 3rd party presidential candidate actually won, they wouldn’t be able to do shit, because they’d have literally ZERO allies in Congress.
I’m pretty sure anyone voting 3rd party for president has absolutely no clue how our government works. They have no concept of the reality they live in.
I simply cannot grasp why some people believe voting 3rd party in a presidential election isn’t one of the dumbest possible things you can do in life.
You might want to say that to Michiganders who voted for Stein (and Oliver) because of Gaza and the US presence in the Middle East.
The 2024 Presidential election isn’t the only one in US history: there have been 57 others.
Trump had few allies in Congress before 2016, but now members are the Republican caucus are falling all over themselves to curry favour from him.
I’m pretty sure anyone voting 3rd party for president has absolutely no clue how our government works. They have no concept of the reality they live in.
You are so correct—as members of the herd generally are. I like people who resort to exaggerations, over generalizations, and distortions.
A vote for a third party in presidential is not a vote.
It is a vote, and over 1.5 million Americans (excluding those for RFK) made such votes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election#Results
IMO, progressives (who’s not too bothered by Stein’s cozying up to Russia a bit) from California, most of New England, DC, Maryland, Hawaii, or Washington (state), and yet yammer on about how bad third parties are because they split the Democrat vote, are probably stupid, or at least ignorant, and should give some of the time they spend watching CNN or Vaush to reading election stats.
how bad third parties are because they split the Democrat vote, are probably stupid, or at least ignorant, and should give some of the time they spend watching CNN or Vaush to reading election stats.
Hey, I don’t need to comment because you said it all for me.
Election stats? You ever hear the phrase “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics”
Stats on their own given a poor analysis of an average joe/jane can mislead just as much if not more than a talking head can.
The core fact remains that voting for a third party under a first past the post system is risking permitting the greater evil to win.
Yes, I think it’s from Twain.
I backed my assertions with stats, however poor you think they are as analysis.
What do yo back up your assertions with, other than lame DNC, CNN, and Vaush talking points?
Can we just stop having this discussion? It’s so boring. Both sides misrepresent the other. Tankies are stupid. Also nobody is a tankie. The Biden administration sanctioned a genocide. Every other US president is a war criminal. This discussion never goes anywhere.
So you propose ignoring the propaganda and hope it’ll go away? Doesn’t sound like a very good plan.
You mean the two party system propaganda?
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“both sides are the same” for example. Do you really need me to list all the propaganda they repeat? Just go to .ml or grad and you’ll see. The discussion is not pointless because ignoring them and not responding to their bullshit isn’t gonna work.
Does third party count then? One bar is a bar
Another lemmy.world banger
Using the term “tankie” while defending a party carrying out a modern day holocaust is quite something.
Defending and arguing that the two parties aren’t the same isn’t the same thing. Just check out last week’s news involving trump. Just last week. And then multiply that by 50. Nobody said the democrats are good. Just that the republicans are 10 times worse, that’s all.
When Democrats win next election they will spend the whole election carrying on Trump’s policies and therefore normalizing them. Republicans go farther right, people like you say that’s proof they’re worse and we should back the Democrats, Democrats win and do all the same policies and therefore normalize it, which then allows Republicans to go farther right.
while defending a party carrying out a modern day holocaust
Oof. You should really think twice before posting a comment this dumb. There’s a delete option. Do yourself a favor and use it.
holocaust deniers should not bother replying because they will just get the instant block
There’s two sides to this argument, and one is wrong and the other is right.
One says “Both sides do it, so it’s okay that my side does it.”
The other says “Your side does it. A few on my side do it, too. But it doesn’t matter, we should stop both sides from doing it.”
“It happens on both sides! you don’t condemn it on your side, isnt that hypocritical?!”
“I… Actually condemn everyone doing it and I think me and you should look for and support people who don’t support this heinous thing.”
“…”
“So, do you condemn the people on your side doing it as wel-”
“But look at this person who has done it on your side!”
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They’d campaign hard against Lincoln for being a defender of slavery, despite him being the only anti-slavery candidate with a chance of winning in 1860.
They don’t care how many marginalized groups are beat, raped, starved, and murdered, so long as they can jerk themselves off over how pure (or nonexistent) their ballot was.
Here’s the tankie of the time. Liberals would be out defending the slave owners rights for free market ideals and the law . Possibly demanding that more women should be allowed to hold the whip. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_(abolitionist)
John Brown, who was widely celebrated by Republicans in the Union? The ‘Liberals’ you so despise?
I’m not even usaian but I now that republican and democrats were the opposite sides compared to today. Are you deliberately trying to be dishonest or are you just stupid?
Also liberalism is a word usaians have a hard time grasping what it is. it’s a specific ideology not a party. Neoliberal ideas are shared on both heads of the US plutocracy
I’m not even usaian but I now that republican and democrats were the opposite sides compared to today.
Yes, and the Republicans of the time were very much liberals.
Are you deliberately trying to be dishonest or are you just stupid?
Big Dunning-Kruger energy.
Ah I take it as the first one there. Maybe you could have vote harder against slavery? John Brown is a terrorist for you. Not for me.
Maybe you could have vote harder against slavery?
So glad you made sure that shitlib Lincoln wasn’t elected, it would have been truly terrible if someone who wasn’t an unconditional supporter of slavery was in charge of the country.
Let’s not forget the current right winged idiocy claiming he’s a current Republican and the Democrats were racist.
Lately, they have been trying to tell me that North Korea is a democracy.
I mean it is in the name. The DEMOCRATIC People’s Republic of Korea.
Dumb libs can’t even read
I prefer the liberated Korea ,the south is the occupied Korea.
I lived in SK. It’s a racist shit hole. I’ve also been to NK for work and it’s absolutely and even bigger, darker, shit hole.
If you’re willing to share, I would very much appreciate a new post about this.
I can throw something up this weekend.
Thank you.
Wow, a country that experienced harsh Japanese colonial rule from 1910 until being forcibly divided by the US after the second world war, creating a war-torn pariah state facing crushing international economic sanctions, is a shit hole? Color me surprised!
You act like I don’t know that. I also don’t see how that excuses the insane levels of racism towards anyone not from the peninsula they exhibit.
Huh??? Did I say anything about that? Does this racism excuse anything we’ve done to them? Seriously, project much?
What the hell should we do about it, fucking invade them again? Continue blockades that don’t even achieve their stated purpose and just make things worse for their people? Cause that’s gone over so well… the only real interaction with most foreign nations being that of sanctions, acts of war and colonization, arbitrarily imposing their own values, and constantly talking down on them both as a nation and as a people, definitely is going to make them love foreigners.
It’s not an “excuse” brother it’s just material reality, why do I have to be “excusing” anything? Is it too much to treat them like humans worthy of a basic level of respect??
Let’s talk excuses though. It’d really be no fucking wonder if they hate us like you say they do. You would hate foreigners too if they talked about you like that and preyed on your downfall the way western nations do to the DPRK. In fact you’ve shown very clearly that you have the exact same hate which you’re trying to condemn here. Calling their home a “shithole”, your only response to a very brief overview of their history not being one of understanding or empathy but simply to lash out and call them racist, which I can only assume is to imply they deserved it. What’s your excuse??
Leftists: Maybe we shouldn’t fund genocide and perhaps the average worker should be able to afford to put food on their table
Liberals: HOW DARE YOU PROMOTE YOUR RADICAL TANKIE AGENDA, DONT YOU KNOW THE GDP AND STOCK MARKET ARE GOING UP WHICH MEANS THE ECONOMY IS GOOD SO STOP COMPLAINING. IN FACT THE POLITICANS DONT EVEN NEED TO GIVE YOU ANYTHING BECAUSE THEY DESERVE YOUR VOTE, NEVER BLAME THE SYSTEM, NEVER ASK FOR CHANGE AND NEVER THINK ABOUT WHO PULLS THE STRINGS
Straw men are so easy, aren’t they?
I mean this is literally a strawman post so
I mean the meme itself is a strawmen too
Ah but you see its making fun of people with wrongthink™.
Not especially. Many groups of people, conservatives and leftists and “centrists” alike, love to suggest the parties are equal. I’ve heard it in real life. I’ve heard it online. All over reddit when I was still on it and lemmy even now.
Though I wouldn’t especially attribute the logic to tankies, so in that way, perhaps
Ofc it’s a straw man! It’s at least so vague and free from annotation that the only way it works at all is for the reader to apply there own.
Prominent leftists I know argue that democrats dont deliver meaningful change but they still encourage people to vote. they say dems go harder against progressives than they do against republicans. And I agree with them.
Not voting does nothing. It doesn’t deliver meaningful change. It doesn’t help. Doesn’t fix.
There’s a lot to lose by not voting. It’s a privilege to vote and run for office, and as a Republic, it’s people’s civic duty to use it.
If you don’t like it, running for election yourself, organizing, unionizing, those are the strongest methods to realistically to fight back. Revolution rarely comes as long as people are moderately comfortable — and that’s the only other option.
For presidential, there’s only 2 options. But if you go down to local level, third parties can be viable.
Only just over 60% of democracies go back to democracy after being authoritarian, and I have never been one to play with gambling the odds
god tier politics challenge: ask a blue dem to name the last time the Ds did something the opposite to what the Rs have done, and was actually good for the average American
(Not proposed, mind you, but did)
That was entirely based on my interactions with liberals, yes I was acturally called a Tankie for caring about basic human dignity
Go outside and interact with actual people.
Usually when talking to people irl I get called woke
Can we just rename this instance from politicalmemes to tankierants
It’s crazy the amount of people that think the evil voters are at fault and not the political party that made a wedge issue out of fucking genocide of all things.
So you’re saying it’s not any fascist’s fault for voting for a fascist, because they were manipulated?
I think they are referring to the protest non voters because of the Palestine Israeli conflict.
Oh, well that’s okay. Nobody has a moral obligation to resist fascism. Calling people evil for letting a neo-nazi wannabe dictator take control of the government is absurd
/s
Your totally right. It’s OK to support genocide because the “good” party (that builds the infrastructure for facism, and doesn’t fight against it) is such a better option. I mean, how can people not be supportive of that?
/s
You killed 10 Gazas by letting trump win.
In opposing 1 genocide you chose 10 more, and threw away any hope to resist them.
So many dying kids curse you right now.
I didn’t “let” Trump win, I voted against him. The Democrats handed the election to him because they valued genocide and money more than they valued fighting fascism. The Democrats openly bombed the shit out of kids world-wide. Do you think they were happy with you when Biden was bombing them? or do you think they cursed as they were dying?
They didn’t hand shit.
Nobody should have voted FOR Harris.
Everyone should have voted AGAINST Trump.
It’s childish to even have this discussion.
If the dems had literally run Mitt Romney I would have voted for him gladly.
Becauae, unlike you, I don’t want MORE genocide, and Trump is nothing if not openly pro-genocide.
Are you happy you didn’t “support genocide”? Did it make the world a better place?
I am indeed happy that I didn’t “support genocide”. But no, it didn’t make the world a better place. Are you happy that you supported genocide? Did that make the world a better place?
Are you happy that you supported genocide?
The fact that you think people who supported Democrats supported genocide is infantile and shows that you are arguing in bad faith.
Funnily enough your moral high grounding resulted in school lunch programs being discontinued. So good job now we have a genocide AND more hungry kids domestically
So glad the current guys got in! How’s that going for ya btw? That genocide stop? No? It’s accelerating? So glad more children can die so you can still confidently hold your nose in the air.
I hate the current guy even more. It seriously bothers me that the dems lost to him because they thought genocide was more important then you and me. I really wish they would have ran a proper platform, so we didnt have to vote for democracy and genocide at the same time, and still lose.
Keep blaming everyone but them and maybe we can have the same circus next election too. We all just have to come together and accept genocide, apathy and status quo like maybe three or four more times.
It seriously bothers me that the dems lost to him because they thought genocide was more important then you and me. I really wish they would have ran a proper platform, so we didnt have to vote for democracy and genocide at the same time, and still lose.
We will remember the devil’s bargain we were forced to answer, so will the rest of the world.
This is a watershed moment in world history.
next election too
next election? there won’t be an election next time, democracy is dead and you killed it.
good job on the protest vote, now that you have defeated the “status quo” gaza will be a luxurious hotel with golf courses instead, so much better, right?
do us a favor and go back to your tankie echo chambers / your right wing troll friends, depending on what you actually are
No, the Democrats killed it when they handed our democracy over to a facist on a silver platter. Rememer that they did this because they valued genocide and corporate donations more than they cared about beating trump.
“It’s all your fault for not doing what I wanted.”
Buddy, I’d be careful throwing those stones when your argument boils down to “It’s all your fault for not voting how I wanted.”
“It’s all your fault for not voting how I wanted.”
Well, that would have kept an actual fucking fascist out of office, sooooooooo…
Keep blaming everyone but them
I’m going to keep blaming stupid Americans because that’s where the fault primarily lies.
Oh no, a political party didn’t run a picture perfect campaign against a felon rapist’s racist fascist campaign. Guess that means we have to let the felon rapist win.
Do you know how many less fucks I give about 2 countries on the other side of the planet continuing an everlasting religious conflict compared to creeping fascism in my own fucking country?
American voters couldn’t see the forest for the trees, because they’re stupid. So now we sit squarely in the stupidest timeline.
Oh no, a political party didn’t run a picture perfect campaign against a felon rapist’s racist fascist campaign.
Oh no, a political party *threw a presidential campaign rather than win and risk acknowledging the humanity of Palestinians.
FTFY
Repeat after me: Israel is committing a genocide.
Yeah, fucking duh! I’m not arguing that brain child.
Yes they are.
As is Russia, half a dozen countries, and oh we stopped funding the who and usaid.
So we’re now aiding multiple genocides.
MISSION fucking ACCOMPLISHED.
I wish I read this earlier, but it feels refreshing to read even if I’m a few hours late.
Wait, you mean the thing that we told the Dems would happen, happened? Crazy, who could have seen that coming? It’s almost like we wanted them to be a party of decency, so we could tell people to vote for them without having to defend the killing of children.
Maybe next time, the Dems should put up a candidate people want to vote for, instead of shaming people for being against Genocide.
Wait, you mean the thing that we told the Dems would happen, happened?
Yes, you successfully ushered in fascism, just like you threatened to do. Give yourself a pat on the back.
It was not a threat, it was a warning. If you keep putting up bad candidates and bad policies, people aren’t going to want to vote for you. I voted against fascism. The Democrats told me to sit down and shut up so that they could assist in ushering in fascism. Get mad at them, not me.
The Democrats told me to sit down and shut up so that they could assist in ushering in fascism.
Are you on meth?
It was not a threat, it was a warning.
“I’m warning you, I’m going to support fascism if you don’t change your platform (after which, of course, I will find some other policy to make this identical demand on)”
There’s no point, the Russians just needed to give them an excuse to throw temper tantrums, they didn’t even have to push that hard.
Of course I’m russian. It couldn’t possible be that I am against the murder of the innocent, or against rapists, or against open corruption, or against torture and imprisonment. I can only point out the obvious failings of the party with terrible approval ratings because I’m a foreign agent.
But I didn’t support fascism. I voted against it. And I told the Democrats that it was unpopular and they didn’t care.
And yes, genocide is one out of a hundred other policies that I don’t support the Democrats because of. Maybe bombing kids, or bankrupting people with hospital bills, or imprisoning people for life for minor crimes, or deporting immigrants, or supporting rapists isn’t a big deal to you, but it is for me.
But I didn’t support fascism. I voted against it.
Is that “I don’t understand math” or “I’m refusing to engage in introspection of any sort because I only want the world around me to be at fault”?
Welcome to reality, and adulthood, where, more often than not, you are working to mitigate shitty situations to get the least destructive outcome possible.
Americans failed to do so, because they chose to squabble over a party not being perfect while a felon rapist and his enabling party of fascists took complete control.
Maybe next time (if there is one) we can cry again about the party that’s provably better for average Americans while we descend further into fascism. That’ll make things better.
…chose to squabble over a party not being perfect…
Looking at the party for the last few years, I see: Choosing a rapist, child-killing, genocide supporter as the candidate. Gaslighting everyone on the cognitive abilities of said candidate. Continuously screwing over the working class. Gaslighting everyone on the state of the economy. Bailing out their rich friends, while telling the poor and homeless that they need to suck it up. Propping up the fascist that beat them as their opponent. Bombing innocent people. Saying that they would be harder on immigrants than the fascist. Helping build a stupid border wall. Increasing funding to violent assholes that attack the working class. Picking unpopular candidates and running on right-wing values.
I feel like that is a far cry from “not being perfect”
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You brain-dead college kid protesters don’t know what “gEnOciDe” is.
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If you ever actually went to Gaza, you’d almost immediately be murdered, enslaved, or imprisoned by the Hamas terrorists you’ve been brainwashed in to believing are the “good guys”.
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Biden was clearly the better choice for Gaza no matter how much copium you huff or how much you wish it wasn’t true.
Anyhow, enjoy watching the Trump Casino/Resort Gaza being built atop the bones of dead Palestinian kids, chump, because it’s what you supported. “Trump Gaza, number one!”
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So glad that you held the country, and especially vulnerable populations like LGBTQ+, neurodivergent, immigrants, and disabled people, not to mention the Palestinian and Ukrainian people, hostage while demanding that Dems do things that have zero historical evidence of them agreeing to. I can’t speak for all of us but, I bet the others are also glad that you were able to keep your moral high-ground and didn’t feel at all betrayed and upset about it. /s
I always find it fascinating that people get mad at those that couldn’t stomach genocide, rather than getting mad at the people with the power, the money and the platform who chose genocide and money over fighting fascism. We kept telling the Democrats that their position was unpopular, they told us to sit down and shut up. Maybe the Democrats should play seriously next time.
Maybe the Democrats should play seriously next time.
So glad you taught those Dems a lesson, I’m sure the elite in the DNC are going to be very harmed by this, and not the numerous marginalized groups on the ground.
And if they don’t learn their lesson, of course, you can just murder some more minorities next time! That will really show them!
Leftist here who voted for Kamala and is also a minority:
So glad you taught those Dems a lesson, I’m sure the elite in the DNC are going to be very harmed by this, and not the numerous marginalized groups on the ground.
You recognize that how you’re describing the situation is eerily close to the definition of collective punishment, right? “Don’t argue with the people in charge who have been screwing us over for the entirety of our lives and who are actively doing a genocide because at least they’re not gonna hurt us as bad”. That’s not an argument for keeping those people in power. Stop defending the people who are willfully causing the deaths of children halfway across the world because at least less people will die here. Stop trading Palestinian lives for American ones.
We have one enemy right now and it’s the billionaires who are actively and maliciously trying to keep us fighting against each other so that they can r*pe and decimate the working class. Shut the fuck up about who voted last election and for whom and actually gear up behind candidates that actually want to solve problems. The dem establishment does not give a shit about the working class. How many fucking articles have to come out basically spelling out for you that they are abandoning the working class? They’re courting corporate interest too. Get off the sinking ship and hold your fucking public servants accountable for their actions for once.
We have one enemy right now and it’s the billionaires
Go ahead and let me know which option in the 2024 election was best for billionaires.
I’ll wait.
Hint: It’s the one all the billionaires gave money to.
Shut the fuck up about who voted last election
No. It matters.
The dem establishment does not give a shit about the working class.
Their voting history literally proves you wrong.
You recognize that how you’re describing the situation is eerily close to the definition of collective punishment, right?
“Collective punishment is when you recognize that actions have consequences for everyone in society”
Yikes.
Stop trading Palestinian lives for American ones.
Oh cool, how many Palestinian lives did preferring the fascist save?
Oh, no Palestinians were saved?
In fact, more Palestinians are going to die now?
Stop trading American and Palestinian lives for your own ego.
Shut the fuck up about who voted last election and for whom and actually gear up behind candidates that actually want to solve problems.
Don’t worry, any time there’s a candidate who might end up with a chance of preventing fascism, I’m sure you’ll find a reason to asspat everyone who sabotages that candidate.
I’m sure that if you just encourage this self-destructive behavior and praise the ‘bravery’ of those who engage in purity-test insanity at the cost of the lives of people like us more, it’ll make the next anti-fascist coalition that much more likely to succeed. Less support for an anti-fascist coalition is better, right?
The dem establishment does not give a shit about the working class.
Okay. Cool. Would you like to remind me what the pro-working class options were in 2024?
We were offered a punch in the face or a .50 cal through the head, and you’re sitting here defending people who opted for the .50 cal because a punch in the face is bad. No shit a punch in the face is bad. But anyone who can’t see the difference between the two, or a reason to support one over the other when it comes down to the wire, is the exact kind of purity-obsessed ghoul who would’ve opposed supporting the USSR and USA against Nazi Germany during WW2. “Good job on sending Poles to the death camps, you really showed those Just-As-Bad Allied tyrants that you’ll never work with Bad People™!”
I always find it fascinating that people get mad at those that couldn’t stomach genocide
Hey kid, know what’s worse than genocide on the other side of the planet?
Fascism at home!!!
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk. Maybe you fucking learned something.
Palestine wedge issue
I always find it fascinating that people get mad at those that couldn’t stomach genocide, rather than getting mad at the people with the power, the money and the platform who chose genocide and money over fighting fascism.
Do you get mad at a mountain lion for killing an elk? Or ivy for strangling a tree? It’s just what they do. Same with the corrupt elite and bourgeoisie. They’re corrupt and feed their own selfish desires because they are fundamentally broken, antisocial people. When one claims to be an ally but refuses to act like one in the most important and meaningful ways, it feels like betrayal and that hits differently than known malignancies acting malicious.
Maybe next time
yeah sure there’s gonna be a next time… keep hoping, buddy
Well, I’m not sure if theres gonna be a next time or not. I assume Trump is gonna fight his damndest to make sure there isn’t another vote. If there is another vote, I assume it’s gonna be Trump, and a highly unpopular Democrat because they still can’t be bothered to give a shit about fighting fascism.
because they still can’t be bothered to give a shit about fighting fascism.
Lol. They ran a campaign repeatedly explaining the dangers of another Trump presidency to the American people. But Americans were too concerned about a conflict on the other side of the planet to care about fascism at home.
The other comments are right. Your brain is broken.
