I’m mostly sailing the high seas, using the tv as a giant monitor for the always-on laptop connected to it. I’m afraid of the 1984-esque “You must connect to the internet to continue using this TV” that might come after some time.
should I unplug my smart _______ from the internet?
fill in the blank, it should always be yes.
Is your loss of privacy worth it to you?
I have a box that connects to the internet for video things. The TV has and will never connect.
Has never and will never connect
Or didn’t it did?
Yesn’t!
Why do you assume you’re being less monitored on your laptop?
I mean, don’t get me wrong, you probably should. I am logged out of all services on my TVs. If you don’t use the built-in apps then why would you be online at all.
It’s just… people that get in the (correct) mindset that smart TVs mostly run spyware can be too kind on the alternatives.
OP’s topic isn’t about being monitored. They just don’t want an update pushed onto their tv that disables it from operating the way they want it to operate
The way they want it to operate is not monitoring them, presumably. You just added one extra step for the same thing.
I mean, if it’s not for that reason then connect it to the Internet and have fun, who cares. Just give them all your data and hope for the best.
Everyone else on this page is interpreting it differently than you are
OK, so… how? How is everyone else interpreting the desire of keeping your TV offline if not for privacy? What other reason could there be?
So that it won’t push updates that make the tv worse, like slower startup times for example
OK, but that’s not what the OP said. OP is concerned that keeping the TV offline may trigger a mandatory connection check down the line (not a thing that I know of, at least outside of very specific ad-based cheap models, to answer their question).
The only other thing being brought up in their post are that they play back pirated content primarily. That and the reference to 1984 make me think privacy more than “mostly made up minor technical inconvenience related to firmware updates”.
Either way, if the TV works fine and they are exclusively using an external device for playback there should be no downside to keeping the thing offline indefinitely.
OP just posted a clarification comment. You were right, i was wrong
The way they want it to operate is not monitoring them, presumably.
Or pushing ads on the device idle screen, or inserted into other things you are trying to watch. (pre-rolls on HDMI sources…)
What the hell kind of TVs you have, guys? I mean, home screen ads sure. You don’t need to see them much if you’re always on the one external source, but sure.
But what kind of TVs do you have inserting pre-roll ads on external sources? The one example of that I can think of off the top of my head was this one weird concept of a TV you’d get pretty much for no money and was primarily funded by acting as an ad service in your house, which was a crappy business model and that’s probably nobody else is doing it.
Man, I wish people would get better at dealing with these types of issues well instead of making up new ones to get mad about. Getting your TV usage milked for data is a very real issue. And yeah, the enshittification of smart TV UX with targeted ads is as well. And it’s hard to sidestep because a lot of it is also baked into the media sources you’re paying for on the side, so even if you watch them elsewhere you get a lot of the same crap.
Is that genuinely not bad enough of a problem to solve to go into weird edge cases like HDMI pre-roll ads, self-destruct firmware updates or mandatory connection prompts? It is in my book.
You may think it’s crazy talk, but the concept has already been patented.
I don’t think it’s “crazy”, I just gave you an example of something similar that actually exists.
I think it’s a bad business model, which is why I only gave you an example.
As opposed to the real stuff you should care about, which not only exists, but is widespread and nearly unavoidable. You don’t need to dig through patents in ragebait articles to be concerned about this for real reasons.
Why do you assume you’re being less monitored on your laptop?
Maybe because I can run Debian, Arch, or even custom Yocto or buildroot distros on general purpose computation hardware, instead of being locked into a walled garden purposely built to increase shareholder value?
Sure, you can. But the point is it’s only more private IF you do that AND you’re not also using services on your laptop that report the same info like, say, Youtube or Netflix.
If you’re only using a laptop with Arch to play back offline videos then by all means, carry on, you’re good. But there’s a bunch of people out there worrying about Smart TV spyware and plugging in a Chromecast dongle instead or streaming from their subscription apps from a laptop, which doesn’t really achieve anything. I guess it may cut Samsung or LG out of the loop, if you have a particular grudge with them specifically, but that’s about it.
I guess it may cut off Samsung or LG out of the loop, if you have a particular grudge with them specifically, but that’s about it.
That’s what people are trying to avoid, the unnecessary data collection by the TVs themselves. I don’t think anyone is saying watching netflix on a laptop is more private than on a tv, and even then, using a browser with uBO can still block some tracking on streaming sites vs using their apps on a tv.
Maaaaaybe? Like, it probably helps mitigate some ingest of data from trackers (because on a web app running on your browser they are probably mining MORE stuff than on your TV by default, depending on your setup), but they still know everything you watched and what you did in the app plus anything adblocking isn’t successfully targeting.
I just don’t know that I have a sliding scale on this. Once your data is out there it’s out there. People will be buying and selling it. There is such a thing as partial mitigation, but ultimately I do stand by the point that a lot of people fixate on some vectors that are less subtle and still have massive holes, sometimes in setups built specifically to replace the more conspicuous snoopers.
I’m all for keeping your TV offline or logged out, but that’s in the context of either not using streaming apps or having them tightly controlled wherever else you use them. Otherwise I may prefer to have them leak my viewing habits from a TV that only ever uses streaming apps than having access to my PC where I do a bunch of other stuff and log in to a bunch of services that may be subject to tracking.
I’m not being contrarian, either. I genuinely think this is a nontrivial issue and you’d need some heavy duty monitoring to get a good sense of what is going on between different configs.
I’ll also say I’m not surprised smart TVs have an increasingly terrible reputation on this, though. Most of what my Pihole ends up blocking is smart TVs calling home. It’s kinda nuts how frequent and persistent they are about it.
And hey, tell the guys up the thread about the data collection thing, apparently some didn’t get the memo.
Otherwise I may prefer to have them leak my viewing habits from a TV that only ever uses streaming apps than having access to my PC where I do a bunch of other stuff and log in to a bunch of services that may be subject to tracking.
That’s the sliding scale you’re talking about. Threat modeling isn’t black and white, it depends on what the person’s risk profile is. Yours is not wanting to expose your laptop. Others don’t want their tv monitoring their activity, and would prefer to transfer the risk to their laptop and browser where they have more control of the medium their streaming site goes through and they can cut off the tv manufacturer.
If you didn’t have a sliding scale, you’d be a hermit with no internet access at all.
Yeah, for sure. No argument from me there. As long as you’re aware of what’s going on and your scale is set that way on purpose I have no issue with that at all.
Again, I’m making a point about ignorance. People who hear about TVs being a massive cesspool of spyware (accurate) and just move the cesspool around to other similarly compromised devices because they’re reacting to the meme and don’t understand what the risk is supposed to be.
If you know what you’re leaking I have no issue with you choosing which leaks to live with, man. I just want to clarify to people who may not know that making a plug out of the bottom of their boat is not gonna keep them from leaking.
Yes
Yes. I connected mine, checked for updates, then factory reset it and did not enter any network login.
This only works on certain brands I’m afraid…
Is there a ful list anywhere of brands and models that lock non-network features behind a network connection requirement?
I’ve heard people complaining about some that don’t let you select HDMI input without first connecting to the internet and “activating” the TV, but the model is usually not specified in those complaints.
So I know for sure is avoid Roku like the plague! You cannot use it as a TV at all without a connection and creating an account.
Why did you connect it at all? Was there specific functionality they detailed in patch notes or something that you felt you were missing out on?
Eh, I’ve always been paranoid about firmware patches and the like. Also, curiosity got the better of me; I had to see what the crap smart features were like.
You do make a very good point though!
I definitely understand the instinct to always be up-to-date with the newest. But then digital storefront “updates” started removing features and even content! Runaway capitalism ruins everything…
Well, the program is that the computer in my TV is a potential security issue. That said, there’s no way of knowing if I can trust updates to patch problems or create new ones, so… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well if it’s not connected to the network then it shouldn’t be a problem, right?
Well, yes, but actually no. At least in theory. Since it has a Wi-Fi antenna, a bad actor could connect wirelessly to it.
Likely to happen? I having the foggiest idea but I doubt it. Yeah, I’m paranoid. But I’m part of the generation that grew up with the invention of the internet. So can you really blame me?
Edit: I did have a neighbor once that would learn how to wirelessly hack into anything in my apartment that had a signal to do shit like stream porn to my TV or obnoxious music to my soundbar, junk like that just to piss me off. Then one day I discovered that he had managed to spoof my Spotify credentials and was accessing my account. How did I kno? he started adding his own favorites to my account! That same day I totally logged everything out of my Spotify, but I also went through and did my best to learn how to absolutely lock down everything that even had so much as a Bluetooth antenna…
Second edit: DO NOT install YouTube on a fucking Xbox. Like ever! Anybody who successfully connects to the same Wi-Fi network immediately gets access to stream whatever YouTube content they want to your Xbox and the stupid app will take over the screen so you get kicked out of your game and now whatever crap someone wanted to stream to your Xboxes playing on your TV. And worse last I checked there was no way at all to disable this.
I’m going to be the voice of dissent here: nah.
It’s on me. I came on pretty strong.
Yes.
This is why I’m holding on to my “dumb” TV for as long as I can. Being able to pick and choose what streaming device I use is great, and if I have to build my own someday, that’s just fine.
I’ve fixed a couple extras and have them stored. If you find a “dead” TV, shine a flashlight into the screen and see if you see the picture. If so, then there’s probably just a problem with the backlighting, which is why TVs get trashed most often. Order up a set of backlight strips, find a youtube vid on taking that model apart, and put new strips in. Takes about 30 minutes and baby, you got yourself a TV.
I have 4 tv’s , all dumb. One in the bedroom , one in the living room and two on ice. I’ve got a stack of dvd / blue ray players and a region free DVD player with a 3k+ dvd collection and an antenna I made myself. Fuck all that smart TV bullshit. I’ll fix them all if I have too, the info is all available on YT like you say and the parts are cheap.
I’ve had 4 or 5 opportunities to get free OLED (or what ever trash is out now) tv’s for free and I turn them all down. People that aren’t the least bit paranoid about all these connected devices bug me out. Facebook freaks and Amazombies
My next tv is probably going to be a dumb tv. You can search for commercial business tvs online and find dumb tvs for displays and digital signage. Same screen, just no smarts, plays a network stream, off a usb, or hdmi input. Nothing else.
I still have a 720p dumb TV and I’m not getting rid of it. But my eyesight is terrible so 720p, 1080p, 4k don’t really make much difference to me.
I’ve got 20/10 vision and the difference is so negligible as to not really matter after 1080. Especially because all the smoothing and image effects new TVs have are so horrendously bad that they make me feel sick.
I still run an 8 year old LG TV that stopped getting updates 4 years ago and doesn’t even attempt to connect to the internet. It’s great because it just turns on and works.
You should’ve never connected it in the first place. Never even set up any functions that a piece of hardware prompts you to. Most of those are enforced only because the company behind them gains something from you having them set up. Unless you actually need something that depends on that function, disable the function.
Lol, my favourite thing about my smart TV is that the wifi was already broken when I bought it
Who makes your tv?
You can do quite a bit of tweaks to mitigate the phone home stuff and ads with projectivy and ADB TV.
i like controlling the TV with the various IP methods, so i just blocked it from being able to reach WAN and vice versa
Unequivocally yes. The less surveillance, the better.
I feel I must clarify. I value my privacy, and my money. I prefer to disconnect it from the internet immediately, but if the vendor put a piece of code that measures offline time and then disables critical HDMI input functionality - it is a different story entirely.
What if after X months of offline functionality - I have to connect it again because of “You must connect to the internet to continue using this TV”
What if being offline for a very long duration of time - means that when connecting it again - the firmware update bricks my TV?
I know the instabilities that occurr when updating after a very long time of being offline.
I’m unsure about my specific model - but it is an LG WebOS OLED 48"
If they disable stuff, call the manufacturer and tell them you have moved in a family member with sensitive medical equipment that needs to have no wifi in the area. Will they give you a code to disable internet or do you need to sue them for reckless endangerment?
Never threaten legal action to a callcenter. If they take it seriously (or just don’t want to talk to you) they’ll hang up immediately and demand all further communication goes through lawyers.
I think we all know the answer to this.
Actually, I’ve seen reports where CS gives them a code. Maybe it’s bullshit, maybe not.
What if being offline for a very long duration of time - means that when connecting it again - the firmware update bricks my TV?
We don’t see many updates that outright brick your product (yet). What we do see is updates that just happen to make your product run much slower than it used to. There’s always excuses why it is necessary, but in the end those updates tend to lead to sales of new devices.
Keeping the device fully offline is a defense against such an update.
Myself, I don’t see any reason for my TV to ever be online, so I take some comfort that it will not receive such an update.
No one is obligated to have internet, and there are actually people who don’t have it. The TV isn’t sold as an “online only” product, they cannot block you from using something that works offline because you’re offline.
Yes.
As someone in a similar situation, entertainment PC connected, I’ve never connected my smart TV to the internet. There is no need.
Yes.
Get a dumb TV, I’ve had great luck with the Specter brand, and hook up a set top box for your smart functionality.
Smart TVs spyon you, report on you, eat bandwidth even when off, and become out dated quickly.
I also bought a Sceptre “dumb TV” within the last year or so and highly recommend it. I had been recommending it over and over, but recently I found that the model I bought was no longer offered. I hope Sceptre didn’t abandon them.
TVs don’t seem to be a core business for them, I get the impression that they are a monitor focused business. Of course it’s not hard to upgrade a monitor to a TV so why not?
They do list all their products on their website so maybe check there?
Sceptre was more of a TV company in the past, but over the last decade or so have definitely moved more into the monitor business. I have actually owned 5 different Sceptre TVs over the last 20 years, but back in the day it was because they were some of the least expensive LCD televisions on the market.
TIL. I first encountered Sceptre during lockdown when I needed better monitors than I was sent home with. I’ve been impressed and have bought two more since then for other devices. And about two years ago I bought one of their dumb TVs, and it’s worked flawlessly.
