The vast majority of Israelis say they are not troubled by reports of famine and suffering in Gaza, a new poll released by the Israel Democracy Institute shows.
The survey shows that 79 percent of Jews in Israel were not troubled, or troubled at all, whereas 86 percent of “Arab” respondents were somewhat or very troubled by the reports about the war on Gaza.
The survey was conducted between 27-31 July.
75%+ of Gazans approved of the October 7th attack and want to see Israel wiped out.
I can imagine Israelis would lack sympathy for a people who want to see them dead.
Has Israel considered surrendering and releasing the Palestinian hostages?
amazing you landed on such a nice round number like that. would love to see the methodology of gathering that information while a population is literally being purged in genocide.
They want occupation to end
There is no occupation. Israel is a sovereign nation that won its right to exist in several defensive wars.
You surely love to embarass yourself. So the UN is lying and human right orgs are lying? Where did you get the dumb idea that land sized in war become the winner land? It doesn’t when the winner take land it becomes occupied land and the occupied had the right to take it back
Would this be the same UN that puts KNOWN human rights abusers on the human rights council? The same UN that is dead silent on various commonly known abuses of human rights around the world? THAT UN? Are you SURE you want to cite THEM?
The same UN that the terrorist state of Israel is member of
The same UN that is dead silent on various commonly known abuses of human rights around the world? Which conflicts that are silent on?
Tell that to the people displaced by Israel’s illegal settlements:
Hmmmm why would Gazans support October 7? I wonder what could have happened within the last century to make them sympathetic to such an attack? /s
Sick, fascist country. They need to be occupied, reconstructed, and de-nazified.
You’re sounding mighty Putinish there.
For sure, but we need to start with the US.
Russia said the same exact thing about Ukraine… maybe this is not a wise option in general.
And which genocide was Ukraine committing?
Russia accused them of a genocide in Donbass.
The point is that trying to rebuild countries is usually a very bad idea, especially by force. Germany and Japan after WWII are very rare examples in history.
Congratulations to israel for making the very rare examples list then.
What the brainless users here are suggesting is going to turn Israel into Afghanistan or Iraq, not into Japan or Germany. It’s been proven that country building just leads countries to become more extreme, and that shouldn’t be the goal.
Why would any of us care about any positive future for the israeli state? read the room, bud.
Ah I get now, you’re pro genocide and ethnic cleansing, just not when it conflicts with your ideological narratives. How convenient that you lack the very principles you harp on and on about.
Also make sure to stalk my profile and write a few hundred more comments. That will surely make you less of a troll
Yet showed no evidence. We have thousands of hours of footage for evidence against israel. Stupid comparison.
Lemmy users are against violence and imperialism, except when it aligns with their ideology, and then they become the most bloodthirsty bunch. No morals, no principles, no values. You can’t stomp out extremism with violence. The US tried to do it with Iraq and failed, Russia tried to do with Chechnya and failed, India tried to do it with Pakistan and failed, hell, Israel itself is trying to do that with Hamas and failing. Could it be that you can’t get rid of extremism with tanks and missiles? Could it be that you can’t fight abstract concepts like ideologies physically? The answer is obviously, no, you can’t as history clearly shows.
Honestly, even just being allowed to sink or swim on their own would have prevented this. They’ve grown brutal and callous because the US has shielded them from any consequences of that.
20 years of being attacked by Hamas did that. Before Israel became anyone’s ally, they won multiple wars against multiple Islamic nations at the same time. Every single one of those wars would have ended in a second Holocaust if the Muslims had won.
The second holocaust is happening right now and it’s all thanks to the terrorists who founded israel, violently removing Palestinians from their homes, and setting the blueprint for the entire existence of the cancer known as israel. Palestine is only the beginning in the israelis’ campaign of lebensraum, they have a whole plan of “greater israel” that they’re looking forward to implementing.
imagine being in school and theres a boy thats mean to you, we can call him billy Palestine.
one day Billy Palestine pushes past you at recess and tou fall over and scrape your knee. Billy Palestine probably shouldnt have done that. It was mean.
But you dont push Billy back, no. The nect day at recess you chop his dick and balls off with a rusty mest cleaver and stuff them in his fucking mouth and assrape the shit out of him in fill view of the school before finally cutting off his head and leaving him right there on the playground.
Imagine defending this.
Imagine being in school and a little shitstain named Billy Hamas Palestine keeps throwing rocks at your family. Big rocks. Occasionally, those rocks hit you or a relative and your cousin has already suffered brain damage from it.
You tell the teacher and the teacher tells you to back off and leave Billy Hamas Palestine alone and blames you for his aggression.
After several years of this shitstain throwing rocks at you and your family, you throw a rock back. You land in the principal’s office with him asking why you hate Billy Hamas Palestine.
One day he pulls out a slingshot and kills several of your siblings, your dog, and then celebrates. You snap and grab your own slingshot and pelt him in a hail of rocks because you are FUCKING SICK OF HIM ALWAYS ATTACKING YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. Then the teachers and principal all come rushing out, telling you to stop because you’ll hurt him. They don’t CARE that he’s already killed your dog and siblings.
Eventually you have to say, “To hell with it. I’m taking you down so you won’t be ABLE to harm my family anymore. I’m sick of the teachers and principal enabling your behavior!”
This is where Israel is now. The only way Israel finds peace and avoids being genocided is to make sure those who have declared Israel to be their enemy isn’t capable to launching attacks. The majority of Palestinians supported Hamas and the October 7th attack. They’ve made their bed. Now they can sleep in it.
Israel has made many concessions for peace, even doing so far as giving up land they took in defensive war and every time they did, Hamas, Hebollah,etc declare it a victory and ramp up their attacks.
If Israel wants to take Gaza over entirely, good on em. At least then they can keep Hamas from coming back.
And look at the death numbers. Maybe just maybe uf Israel wasn’t killing Palestinians they wouldn’t grow up hating Israel. I know its hard but it’s in their book I think an eye for an eye.
The death numbers tell a tale of a people who attacked a foe that they had absolutely no chance of beating.
Hamas thought that they could kill Jews, take hostages, then hide behind civilians and cry to the world to stop Israel from retaliating. Israel usually does, but this time, Israel has decided that playing nice with Hamas only gets people killed.
They celebrated as Hamas paraded around corpses and hostages. That celebratory cheer became wails of despair when Israel decided that enough was enough.
Much like a violent teen punk who loves to punch people he thinks won’t fight back on camera, then acts tough, their tune changed real fast when the guy Hamas sucker punched decided to punch back and kept punching.
I imagine a lot of the world hates israel now. Not just Palestinians. Israelis thrive on that, so they can have a nice strong victim complex for the next thousand years.
“Why oh why does everyone hate us!! Its because they are racist antisemites! bohooohoo”
Hatred of Jews goes back centuries. It’s almost a worldwide pastime at this point. The difference is a lot of the antisemites have had to stop being openly hateful towards Jews because of shifting social norms, so they latch onto Israel as a way to vent their hatred in a politically correct manner.
I didnt say jews, I said israelis. Careful with this. Antisemitism gets you banned on lemmy.
Although for whatever reason, anti arab sentiment or support for war crimes doesnt. Huge double standard.
If Israel was run by Muslims, no one would care if they were turning Gaza into a heap of rubble. Just look at how concerned they are about the Druze.
crickets
Exactly.
If Palestinians weren’t constantly attacking Israel, there wouldn’t be an issue. Plenty of Palestinians lived and live in Israel peacefully. You can’t say the opposite.
Oh, just 20 years?? Try since ethnic cleansing since 1948
Agreed, the Muslims have been trying to Genocide the Jews since Israel was founded.
Israel was founded by means of genocide
It was not, but thanks for playing. The Israelis lacked the weapons and manpower to genocide anyone and were surrounded on all sides by Islamic theocracies that would love nothing more than to genocide the largest group of Jews the world had seen since the Romans expelled them from their land.
I kind of doubt that. It wouldn’t have been great, though, and I doubt they’d be above pushing everyone back into the diaspora.
It also was guys like Nasser being dumb, not Israel being blessed by god or whatever your pet theory is.
Edit: If what you’re saying is that Israel could defend itself, you’re right. It’d just have to respect the other nations around and in it, the way they actually did sometimes in the earlier days.
20 years of being attacked by Hamas did that.
Uh-huh. And Israel was being super nice and reasonable to Palestine this whole time, right?
“History begins the last time the other feuding party did something”
Every nation that invaded Israel did so with the express intent to wipe out the Jews. There’s no other reason for them to invade land that wasn’t theirs to begin with, EXCEPT to exterminate the Jews who had moved in.
invade land that wasn’t theirs to begin with, EXCEPT to exterminate the Jews who had moved in.
You have a funny, probably very personally convenient definition of “theirs”. If it was a Jewish place already, how did they move in?
Considering that the land of Israel was historically Jewish until the Romans forced them off the land, it belongs to the Jews because it was theirs.
Unless we have a limit on how far back we’re willing to look when it comes to “It was our land, it was stolen from us!”
Right, so what about the Babylonian Empire, or the bronze age Egyptian expansion into pre-Jewish Canaan? Shouldn’t it all go to Iraq or Egypt by that standard? Except, there were actually countless migrations before that too…
Also, genetically, Palestinians would have more second-temple Jew in them than an Ashkenazi Jew like me.
The U.S. won’t be of much help to them when climate change comes tapping at their back door.
Don’t mistake government-controlled or government-aligned media propaganda with the actual civilian populace.
Would you trust Netanyahu’s allies to put out fair, representative journalism about what is important to the general population?
Dehumanization of the enemy is part of what enables genocidal actions.
Very smerprising indeed.
Smerprising?
I’m supposed to be pronouncing the word “surprising” weird as a marker of sarcasm, but yeah this probably doesn’t make as much sense as I think it does.
PS: Non-native speaker here.
Oh, I get it! I thought it was a pun at first; thank you for clarifying!
I’m picking up what you’re putting down, don’t worry.
Guess we can be anti semites
What in the actual fuck? Hell no.
I feel like people like this have always been antisemitic and they’re just waiting for an excuse or justification to go mask off. Gross.
No, don’t be a bigot. Hating them for being Jews is wrong. Hating them for committing atrocities on Palestine is normal.
Yeah, genocide and bigotry is a universal human issue. If the people who experienced the Holocaust in living memory doing this doesn’t get that point across, I don’t know what will.
They’re not the same people!
The only thing that connects this bunch of modern Nazis and those whose suffered in the Holocaust is having the same religion (and, up to a level, race) and personal trauma doesn’t get transmitted via “sharing religion” or “sharing race” - there is no such thing as a Jewish Hive Mind.
So no, these assholes didn’t learn anything about how it feels to be a victim of a Genocide because they were never victims of a Genocide, almost none of their parents were victims of a Genocide and in the overwhelming majority of cases not even their grandparents were victims of a Genocide: only a small fraction of Israelis are descendants of Holocaust survivors and of those very few are first generation direct descendants.
One thing is to suffer something or those close to you suffering something - with all the emotional impact it has - and a whole different thing is intellectually knowing people you feel as part of your “tribe” having suffered it: you don’t learn empathy with the victims of something from intellectually knowing some whole unrelated people of your “tribe” were victims of it.
You’ve never heard of intergenerational trauma?
And, there’s literally no shortage of Holocaust survivors in the country. Like, sure, most modern Israelis aren’t, but there’s a definite connection.
Intergenerational trauma literally requires people to be descendants of those who suffered the trauma, and is not in any way form or shape about trauma being transmitted through race or religion and it works less the further away from the generation that suffered the trauma one is, all of which I covered in my post.
As for the rest, in 2023 there were 110,100 Holocaust Survivors in Israel, whist the population in total is about 9.5 million people, making Holocaust Survivors in Israel 1.1% of the population, so that leaves 98.9% of the Israel population who never suffered direct trauma from the Holocaust.
Even if one tries to account for direct descendants living in Israel (a very hard to estimate number), it would still be pretty hard for them to exceed the number of Israelis against what’s going on in Gaza which is about 2 million.
Or coming at it from another side, most present day Israelis come from Russia or are descendants of those who came from Russia (a large fraction are Orthodox Jews, who have very large families), most of which was not impacted by the Holocaust.
Holocaust survivors and their descendants are a minority in Israel so I don’t think they can be relied upon to make the broader people of Israel empathise with the plight of Genocide victims, especially if indeed as I have heard, Holocaust Survivors in Israel are seen as weak.
So, start with that 1.1%, add on all the ones dead of old age, and then multiply by the number of kids and grandkids the average one has. That’s a low estimate, because cultural transmission of the anxiety is pretty strong here - great grandchildren and close friends should arguably be counted as well.
The Shephardis and various other diasporas wouldn’t have been as much affected, although the fear of violence coming their way was heavily used to drive emigration to Israel back in the early days. The Ashkenazi population, however, is lousy with experience.
I think what’s really going on is that going through trauma doesn’t necessarily teach empathy. It can, or it can teach nothing (like Henry Kissinger said about his own survivorship), or it can straight-up make you mean. In Israel the dominant lesson that’s been taken out of it is that everyone’s always against the Jews no matter what, which conveniently removes any responsibility to look in the mirror.
Well, the thing is that the “anxiety” isn’t something that would make a person being against Genociding others as it’s all about self-protection and it might even make genocidal violence more likely: it’s far easier to spread the Fear that “they are against us” and convince people about how “we have to get them before they get us” in a climate of high anxiety (which seems to be something policians of all colors have for decades continuously cultivated in Israel and even amongst the Jewish Communities abroad), which makes extreme mass violence against the “others” deemed “the enemy” under the cover of “self-defence” be more likely rather than less likely.
The thing that would make being against Genocide more likely is Empathy with the hurt of the victims, and not all of those who went through the trauma of the Holocaust will have come out of it with that (for example, trauma also can create Sociopaths, the very opposite of people with high empathy with the suffering of others), plus empathy is a lot harder to transmit to both friends and descendants than anxiety, plus one of the things Racism does is close down empathy towards specific “others” based on their ethnicity (hence the relentless “they are <insert evil thing>” prejudiced messaging against Palestinians and Arabs in Israel, as well as the “human animals” and “vermin” dehumnization of Palestinians, all of which is obvious propaganda to breed Racism).
Mind you, plenty of Holocaust Survivors do have that Empathy and even fight to stop the violence (and even get called anti-semites for it, as the Press did to a Jewish Holocaust Survivor in the UK some years ago because in a Conference For Palestine he compared some of the actions of the government of Israel to those of the Nazis), and I suspect that due to that experience they’re a lot more likely than the average person to be deeply against such extreme violence as a Genocide, it’s just that I don’t think they add up to enough people compared to the population of Israel as a whole, the transmission of the kind of emotional relation to others that makes one be against it down the generations and laterally to people like friends is nowhere as strong as the transmission of the fear and anxiety which can be easilly weaponized to make the violence more likely and what politicians in Israel have from the very start been doing is cultivating the transmission of anxiety and fear, not of empathy.
IN SUMMARY: Holocaust Survivors in Israel were always a small minority and their experience has been very purposefully weaponized by local politicians to spread amongst the majority the irrational fear and anxiety that make Israelis more likely to commit extreme violence against others whilst genuinelly believing it to be “self-defense”, whilst the positive things like “empathy with the pain of victims” had their transmission suppressed or at the very least only spread naturally (and against relentless society-wide Racist messaging meant to reduce empathy) at a rate which is much slower than the rate of spread of fear and anxiety, hence the impact of the existence and presence of Holocaust Survivors on Israeli society probably made this Genocide more likely, not less likely (and I suspect it’s the very opposite of what most Holocaust Survivors would’ve wanted).
PS: Judging by things like Holocaust Survivors who too openly and strongly critize the actions of the government of Israel being called anti-semites, it seems logical to think that the Israeli politicians activelly try to suppress the transmission of empathy, making it even slower than the natural rate of transmission would be.
Zionists are using Jews as human shields. Condemning the Zionist entity and their genocide is NOT antisemitism no matter how many times they claim it is.
Yeah, the problem isn’t just with Netanyahu or his gov. You have an entire society thats mostly corrupt.
Yes, poll after poll has shown this. Israelis by and large are behind the genocide. They’re okay with it they approve of it and they like it. They’re not being forced to murder an entire people. They’re gleeful about it.
Gaza genocide denials are new holocaust denials.
not even sure if it’s denial at this point, looks like the Israelis are well aware it’s happening and don’t care.
Most of y’all weren’t bothered by the reports of all the bombing, pillaging and starvation the US caused my country, but that’s in the past right? The ancient past known as 1984 but Americans will just say “that want me”
It wasn’t just your country!
The US is responsible for a shit ton of suffering. It is kind of our thing.
I live with that guilt every day. I hate imperialism to no end, and I hate that I fund it with my taxes.
Sounds like 4/5 of Israeli are accessories to war crimes charges.
Yes they’re demons. We know.
Don’t call fascists demons. They’re people. Any people can go fascist when the circumstances are right. This “fascists are demons, not reasonable people like us” attitude breeds complacency and an unwillingness to look directly at what fascism is and how it arises and functions, and that’s part of the reason fascism has come back to bite us hard.
No, soulless ghouls with a lack of empathy and compassion for others are not people.
I feel like you missed the point of their comment.
I didn’t.
Even though i agree with them i commented in anger and frustration.
Happens 🤷♂️Yup. The other day, I made an angry comment about an environmental issue. Somebody replied with a sarcastic “congrats, you solved it”. Solving it wasn’t what I was trying to do. I was just venting.
We all need to do that sometimes.
Rephrase the question, “Do you fear the consequences of facing trials after the war, similar to how the nazi enablers did?”
The chances of that happening are pretty much nil. Not as long as the US keeps supporting them and even if they stop supporting tjem, Israel has nukes.
The only way it could happen is if there was a push for accountability from the population of Israel but polls like this shows that’s not gonna happen either as the population supports this.
Answer: No, the Nazis did not face consequences after the war and neither will we. The Nuremburg trials were a circus and few if any were held to account.
That fear depends on a real threat of someone holding them accountable and being able to bring them to trial. Which country or countries would be willing and able to do this? The Nazis were unafraid until defeat started to loom as a real prospect.
One reason, maybe not the only one, could be that they’re being told it’s all lies or in any case untrustworthy reports, or hugely exaggerated. I’ve seen many examples of this.
The Palestinians in occupied territory figured it out already. Not that hard.
Also other polls have shown almost half Jewish Israelis support full extermination Palestinians. And more than 82% support ethnically cleansing them.
Also other polls have shown almost half Jewish Israelis support full extermination Palestinians. And more than 82% support ethnically cleansing them.
Source please?
Israel is a extremely racist nation and Palestinians are just “human animals” and even “vermin” to most Israelis.
No, they probably even enjoy those reports.
