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- cross-posted to:
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/17672200
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Its not unexpexted and doesn’t matter. I’m stil voting and it will be for whoever is running against Trump.
This was never in doubt, it was said from the beginning. The fear is that someone who refers to themselves as a socialist cannot win in the rust belt swing states. Pro-labor positions in general don’t do well in the midwest, it’s a central area in the fight to dismantle unions.
Not that Hilary won them either though.
Bernie drew in crowds in the reddest of states. And without the DNC dog piling on Biden he was likely to win.
Crowd size is not a sound method for predicting voting results.
The fact is his message resonated regardless of political ideology.
That I agree with. Any certainty he would have won in red states is misplaced though, elections are not that predictable. He might have. He might not have. He certainly wouldn’t have gained support from anti-communist types though, and that line of attack would have been employed heavily by the repubs. They do it anyway even with neolib dems.
I lived in MAGA country in 2016 and when they found out I was a Bernie supporter they told me they liked him, both for his hatred of billionaires and for his steadfast adherence to his principles even if they didn’t agree with him.
I have heard this from every conservative I’ve talked to about that election.
He was the most popular politician in America for YEARS after that election. He’s still more popular than either Biden or Trump.
I think that, if the DNC’s kneecapping of him had not succeeded, someone might have shot him. They just can’t have that shit. Think of how MANY people with how much power he was sticking the finger directly in the eye of.
Him and his fuckin mittens
The fear is that someone who refers to themselves as a socialist cannot win in the rust belt swing states.
Democrats’ fear is that they can.
I don’t think you’ve ever spent much time in the rust belt if you think that region of Trump country wouldn’t have a very negative knee-jerk reaction to just the simple word. They very much like the idea of income inequality, the whole “if I work hard enough, I can be Jeff Bezos too” idea. They do not understand things like systemic advantage, sounds too woke.
And all we have to do to get them to vote for us is to move to the right.
That has a limit, as Joe Manchin found out.
Good going. Let’s argue and divide the Democrats when it needs unity the most.
If you don’t want evidence of fuckery coming out, it’s pretty easy not to engage in fuckery in the first place.
“Oh man this is very inconvenient to the echo chamber. Please move on everyone nothing to see here”
Go back to hexbear 🤣
“Sir I would like to inform you that different echo chambers such as hexbear exist where your comment would be well received”.
jacobin doesn’t want unity; jacobin wants to elect far right republicans.
For accelerationism, right?
😏
For accelerationism, right?
also because most of the terminally online far left agree with the far right. which is why most of them are transphobic and anti-immigrant af.
Removed by mod
Oh, I see. Biden’s adoption of Trump’s immigration policies are why centrists think he’s the most progressive president who ever progressed a progress.
Removed by mod
Biden circumvented 26 environmental laws to build Trump’s wall for him. Centrists weren’t pretending his hands were tied then, since he was doing exactly what centrists want: whatever Republicans want.
Reported as misinformation, but the report doesn’t seem to be aware of “Horseshoe Theory”:
So as long as it’s a theory, it’s not misinformation?
Do you know how theory works?
You have to prove a theory true before you can say it’s a fact.
Saying it’s a fact is misinformation.
Like saying “Biden started the genocide in Palestine”. Might make you feel popular in your echochamber, but reality is at odds with the statement.
Do you know how theory works?
I sure as hell know how gaslighting works.
I get that you’re just happy to pretend that anyone to your left is a Trumpist because it gives you an excuse to dismiss anything you don’t like.
You have to prove a theory true before you can say it’s a fact.
Saying it’s a fact is misinformation.
Ain’t a whole lotta room for “jeepers, it’s totally only a theory” here:
also because most of the terminally online far left agree with the far right. which is why most of them are transphobic and anti-immigrant af.
Which is straight up libeling an entire movement. There is NOTHING that says most leftists are transphobic or anti-immigrant. Not a goddamned thing. That’s not a ThEoRy, it’s a fucking lie.
Like saying “Biden started the genocide in Palestine”.
Which I’ve never said. I’ve said that he supports Netanyahu’s genocide. But hey, you’re not above some libel. You can just call it a theory after the fact.
You should be rejecting it because it’s opinion rather than “information” (mis or not), not because an online theory exists which codifies the opinion. And it probably should have been reported for Trolling in the first place. That’s not a comment intending to do anything but start a fight.
The wiki page specifically says that it’s highly criticized:
Several political scientists, psychologists, and sociologists have criticized the horseshoe theory. […] political scientists do not appear to support this notion, and instances of peer-reviewed research on the subject are scarce. Existing studies and comprehensive reviews often find only limited support and only under certain conditions; they generally contradict the theory’s central premises.
Just because it has a wiki page does not mean it’s a valid theory.
The people who want no borders are anti immigration. What a take!
I didn’t know Time was a banned site, I will try to remember this for next time. If it is mentioned in the sidebar I didn’t see it.
Here’s another source that I hope is accepted:
Reluctantly, I gave the piece a fair shake.
It’s garbage. We know that the DNC pushed other more moderate candidates out so that a more moderate candidate, one the average democratic voter and independent thinks they want, could win instead of them all splitting the vote. This was obvious, not some conspiracy theory.
The author of the piece is trying to claim that because one person said they chose a candidate that could beat sanders, that was the ultimate goal. But they wanted to beat sanders because they felt he couldn’t beat trump. They quote one person effectively saying this, but then dishonestly spin it.
The second quote is one person saying that he thinks sanders policies are bad, as if this proves anything.
It’s amazing anyone reads this site without realizing how terrible it is.
When OP is a closet Republican this is no surprise
I wondered what was gonna replace “bot” as the go-to bogus accusation.
We held our noses and voted for him despite everything we knew in 2020. What did that get us? A genocide halfway across the world.
This time around I decided to believe Biden when he says he is a Zionist. He demonstrated it over 30,000 times so far.
I still remember on October 6th when Biden said “fuck all those Palestinians, murder them all.”
It wasn’t because of the actions of a terrorist group that sparked a disproportionate response at all.
c/politics: your source for genocide apologia.
Collective Punishment is a war crime and against international law. So was the blockade and occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. Palestinians aren’t resisting out of nothing and their resistance is legal per international law.
If this is the position most liberals hold, I see no reason why Arab and Muslim Americans should vote for a party that demonizes them anyways.
Now we don’t know if Biden ever said that about Palestinians on October 6th but he did say it about Lebanese in 1982. So I know that he at least believes it and his actions show it.
Begin said he was shocked at how passionately Biden supported Israel’s invasion when Biden “said he would go even further than Israel, adding that he’d forcefully fend off anyone who sought to invade his country, even if that meant killing women or children.” Begin said, “I disassociated myself from these remarks,” adding: “I said to him: No, sir; attention must be paid. According to our values, it is forbidden to hurt women and children, even in war. Sometimes there are casualties among the civilian population as well. But it is forbidden to aspire to this. This is a yardstick of human civilization, not to hurt civilians.” The comments were striking from Begin, who had been notorious as a leader of the Irgun, a militant group that carried out some of the worst acts of ethnic cleansing accompanying the creation of the state of Israel, including the 1948 Deir Yassin massacre.
https://theintercept.com/2021/04/27/biden-israeli-invasion-lebanon/
October 7th wasn’t some great usurpation of settlers. It was another attempt at killing Jews because that’s what Hamas’ mission statement is you fucking idiots.
Not saying Jews aren’t also trying to eradicate Palestinians.
BOTH GROUPS ARE WRONG. STOP SUPPORTING ZIONISTS OR TERRORISTS.
HAMAS CALL TO JIHAD;
“The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews’ usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.” (Article 15)
“Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: ‘Hail to Jihad!’. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah’s victory comes about.” (Article 33)
On the destruction of Israel:
“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.” (Preamble)
What a bunch of BS
Let’s see what the Lemmy far left echo chamber say about this…
If you want an echo chamber, head on over to reddit. There’s tons of power-hungry MAGA mods there with an agenda to push.
No, they want a blue MAGA echo chamber, not a red MAGA echo chamber. And evidently they have never heard of r/Enough_Sanders_Spam.
Did you read the article? Apparently not. The title here is dumb and misleading to the contents. One person’s theory is not “Democrats”.
The entire article reads like some sad right-wing hopium. Dumb as hell.
It doesn’t seem to be completely unfounded, the whole article is that the writer had an impression that this was the case back in 2020, and now two highly placed Dems came out with statements to support that impression.
IDK how many other layers this has though. That said, there seemed to have been a concerted effort to deny Bernie the nomination when all the dropouts happened at the same time, all endorsing Biden who has not been doing that well before.
One who conflates that something like the title happened (opinion), and Ford who says he chose Biden over Bernie.
The title and tone of this article make it seem like there was almost a conspiratorial effort to skew the entire party in one direction against Sanders, which is absurd. If Biden entering the ring suddenly gave people a choice they liked better than Sanders, that’s still not the same thing as the former.
Also, the whole of “DEMOCRATS NOW OPENLY ADMIT…” explicitly implies that an entire group is admitting to some sort of foul play, which is wholely untrue. Because TWO people in the Democratic party said something this author massages into this crap is technically true they won’t get sued for using the plurality, but it’s disingenuous at best, and semantically playing with words to lure readers in.
That’s why I grabbed the actual quotes one comment up. I agree that the headline is a stretch (headlines tend to be), but it’s not nothing either.
This is newsworthy at least.
What’s the revelation? Did anyone think there weren’t establishment/conservative Democrats who supported Biden because they didn’t want Bernie to win? That’s both not anything that was ever in question and not even anything nefarious.
I think the insinuation is that Biden wasn’t picked by the Dem establishment because he would be great at the general, but because he would be great at foiling Bernie in the primary. The whole thing is that the Dem establishment’s priorities are such that they would rather lose to Trump than Bernie.
The whole thing is that the Dem establishment’s priorities are such that they would rather lose to Trump than Bernie.
Centrists got their second choice in 2016.
We are literally all arguing over if Biden needs to go or not and you call it an echo chamber? The left is as fractured as it has always been. It’s like herding cats. That’s one thing I like about it. The range of ideas.
It’s the right that matches in lockstep behind their great leader no matter what. I’ll read some right-leaning article somewhere, and the next day, most of the right is regurgitating the same damn thing. Like the whole comparing trans people transitioning to lobotomies from the 50s? I can link you the exact article that shit all came from, because I’ve read it. They don’t have any original thoughts of their own.
Because like most other politicians many of the “democrats” are slaves to their billionaire masters too
Former congressman Harold Ford, former chair of the Democratic Leadership Council and banking executive, made a similar point on Fox. “I was an elite that supported you in 2020,” Ford said. “And said that we should do everything we possibly could do to advantage you against Bernie Sanders, because I thought Bernie Sanders’ politics were detrimental to the party and to the country.”
From Harold Ford’s Wiki
In April 2021, Ford joined Fox News as a political contributor.[7] He frequently appears on Special Report as a panel member and was named a co-host of The Five in January 2022.
Hey great going democratic party leadership, you’ve always looked like incompetent morons, now you look like corrupt incompetent morons!
SHOULD HAVE BEEN BERNIE. YOU STOLE OUR FUTURE TO PRESERVE YOUR PRESENT PROFITS.
SHOULD HAVE BEEN BERNIE. YOU STOLE OUR FUTURE TO PRESERVE YOUR PRESENT PROFITS.
I’m not sure we should be so pessimistic yet. They blocked a candidate but did nothing to kill it’s popularity. As long as we don’t succumb to Fascism within the next four years, there’s still a massive base of voters that would vote for a socialist in the '28 primary, and the left democrats will have had 12 years since Bernie’s first campaign to build up the infrastructure for it by that point.
They blocked a candidate but did nothing to kill it’s popularity
Nothing? I can think of a few laws that are killing minorities rn, and let’s not get stared on the police…
“Fox News pundit now openly admits wanting to YET AGAIN fool people into helping billionaires get gigantic GOP tax cuts like in 2016 which was Bernie’s worst nightmare”.
2016: PROFITS WERE INCREASED GREATLY
SHOULD HAVE BEEN BERNIE.
We should have had more people wanting to vote Bernie. Absolutely. Too bad you didn’t work hard enough on that.
TO PRESERVE YOUR PRESENT PROFITS.
Biden raised the minimum corporate tax from 0% to 15%, and skillfully did it with the votes of 2 senators who are now independents.
2020: PROFITS WERE NOT PRESERVED.
Too bad you didn’t work hard enough on that.
Certainly not as hard as the party worked to shut out progressives for you.
for you.
For me as a huge Bernie Sanders supporter since before he was even a senator? LMFAO.
the party worked to shut out progressives
Will you stop with the nonsense? Who the fuck is “the party” and exactly how the fuck do they “shut out” people like me? You NEVER hear Bernie Sanders saying this shit – because he’s not an idiot.
Left: It sure is a huge problem that there’s such a bipartisan effort in Washington to be corporate trash
Lemmy: YEAH FUCK THE DEMOCRATS
Left: I think we should get involved, maybe we could do campaign finance reform or get rid of FPTP or strengthen the progressive wing of the Democrats, or idk, fuckin something, this is horrible
Lemmy: LET’S LET THE FASCIST WIN
Everything in all caps is what centrists see when they encounter anything not in all caps.
I must have missed your extensive explanation about how the Democrats are good, or we must not let the fascist win. Want to give me the cliffs notes version? Or just link me to it? I’d be happy to hear.
Why? You’ll just do what you always do and assume that anything other than “Biden is perfect and young and I fucking love how he’s supporting genocide! Gosh, I can’t wait until the last Palestinian is dead!” means “I WANT TRUMP TO WIN BECAUSE I’M A BOT!”
Dude
What makes you this way
I can go back in my history and find, not that long ago, me saying Biden is old as fuck and it’s a problem, a post from a while ago where I’m comparing the Biden State Dept to Nazis because of their support for the genocide, all kinds of stuff that is perfectly reasonable.
YOU are the one using absurd strawmen here, because I’m not saying exactly what you want to hear.
Why would you even open a conversation if you’re going to react to “please show me what you believe” with hostility and absurd strawmen. Just don’t talk to me.
hostility and absurd strawmen
Says the guy who posted absurd strawmen in all caps and doesn’t want anyone to say boo over it.
Like I say, if that’s not what you think, I’d be happy to hear. If not, I’m not sure why you are talking to me.
When I saw your all-caps straw construction, I called it out for what it was.
My opinion doesn’t matter to you and never has, so pretending to give a shit now after months of bullshit assumptions and accusations isn’t convincing. Now call me a trumper or whatever it is you lot say now that you can’t accuse everyone who deviates from neoliberal orthodoxy of being a bot.
This is the democracy we are told that needs to be saved by Re-Electing Biden.
Every gambler knows
That the secret to surviving
Is knowing what to throw away
Knowing what to keep
'Cause every hand’s a winner
And every hand’s a loser
And the best that you can hope for
Is to die in your sleepThere’s nothing antidemocratic in people organizing to oppose the candidate they don’t like. That’s just regular democracy.
Wouldn’t it be nice to vote for something?
Of course the corporate democratic side of the house wouldn’t want Bernie. He was a threat to the status quo and they couldn’t have that. Shifting money back to the middle class from the ultra rich? But it’s the ultra rich that keep bank rolling them. How could they possibly go against that? Instead they discredited an honest, good guy who actually espouses the values out of their good book.
I just wish they could get on message and get in lock step about a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. It’s the only reason the right is successful at this point. Yep, their policies are garbage, but look at them rally around their trash fire and start dancing to the drums.
Yeah, how is this a shock to people? If they can’t have their own neoliberals in office, they would absolutely prefer to lose to another neoliberal than win with a progressive.
America desperately needs preferential voting.
Yeah and you push Clinton and look how 2016 ended up. And now we’re not just in hell, but living on the precipice of straight up fascism. Thanks guys.
With Democrats like that who needs Republicans?
Somebody with a real dick for the dems to suck
I can make farting noises with my armpits.
If you think any one of them ain’t on the same team, you are a sucker. They may believe they are and think they’re telling the truth. Doesn’t matter. They’re capitalist. Every thing they do is theft from you and everyone else. Doesn’t matter. If you don’t think otherwise enough to at least figure out the truth, then you are as delirious as every one of them. It don’t matter. Result is always collective suicide irrespective of who does whatever they think they are doing or who wins that whack-a-troll.
Excellent Marxist analysis.
ah jacobin; the gateway pundit of the online left.
Is RealClearPolitics unreliable too?
i mean harold ford jr is a conservative fox news pundit.
He’s a Democrat, of course he’s conservative. It doesn’t make his statement about helping Biden any less true.
Is Adam Smith a conservative news pundit too?
He’s a Democrat, of course he’s conservative.
and yet one of the most pro labor, pro worker, pro union presidents we’ve had in a long time is a democrat right now.
Railroad Union buster Biden?
You confused the terms above with pro Genocide.
Oh how far the bar has fallen for you to even think that’s true. And it very well might be.
I’ve said this over and over again, (…) Joe Biden was not picked in 2020 because he was the only person that could beat Trump. He was picked because he was the only person that could beat Bernie Sanders, rightly or wrongly. … That conclusion was made, okay? “Oh my gosh, coming out of Nevada, Bernie Sanders is going to be the nominee!” And people, just like they are now, said, “Ahhh, I don’t think that’s going to work,” so they were looking for an alternative.
- Adam SmithI was an elite that supported (Biden) in 2020, (…) And said that we should do everything we possibly could do to advantage (Biden) against Bernie Sanders, because I thought Bernie Sanders’ politics were detrimental to the party and to the country.
- Harold FordThis seems to be the gist of the article.
And the party.
We didn’t need them to admit it, and Bernie endorsed Biden just the other day. It wouldn’t surprise me if Biden were being pushed out the exact same way for being “too progressive.” The fact that the left wing of the DNC has been supporting him suggests this is the case.
That’s odd because the only reason there’s leverage to remove Biden is because the party thought he wasn’t progressive enough in terms of Gaza.
Removing him because of his terrible debate is only politically feasible for Democrats because he has been losing in head-to-head polls since almost exactly October 7th.
I think AOC and Sanders are probably thinking of something else. My hunch, is they assume Republicans will challenge the existence of any Democrat on the ballot not named Joe Biden for some sort of rules violation, the decision will go to the Supreme Court, and the court will decide on returning 45 to the White House.
I think they just know that they’re not the voices that could ever convince Joe Biden’s ego to stand down, and if he holds on they’d be the ones to suffer most for rebellion.
I think the word you are looking for here is “cowards”
