It’s not alarmist: A second Trump term really is an extinction-level threat to democracy
www.vox.com
Why a second Trump term is a mortal threat to democracy — though perhaps not the way you think.
  • TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world
    64·
    10 months ago

    I don’t know exactly how bad a second Trump term would be, but I’d really rather not find out. At best it will be embarrassing and absurd, at worst it would be devastating and catastrophic for countless millions, both inside and outside the US.

  • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world
    75·
    10 months ago

    Erdogan once said “democracy is a bus we ride until we reach our destination”. I feel major similar vibes from the GOP.

  • brey1013@lemmy.world
    319·
    10 months ago

    ITT: small, shithole country thinks it’s elections matter even slightly to the rest of the world.

  • conorm@feddit.ukBanned
    457·
    10 months ago

    extinction-level threat to the dregs honestly, it’s a shame there isn’t a politician with a right-wing social policy and a left-wing economic policy, because that is the gold the world needs

  • tehn00bi@lemmy.world
    333·
    10 months ago

    I think he’s a symptom of a much larger disease. The people behind him, the evangelicals, non college educated whites, the climate change deniers, the industrialists who fight every regulation, the behind closed doors racists. These are the democracy extinction harbingers.

    • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
      647·
      10 months ago

      Or it could be regular family people that are sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO. Or the fact that the inflation during this administration has American choosing food or medicine. Or the fact that during this administration housing has become only a dream. Or the facts that the current administration opened the boarder to bring cheap labor to replace us. Yeah great current administration!

      • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
        121·
        10 months ago

        Or it could be regular family people that are sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO.

        I thought republicans didn’t even like NATO, what’s the butthurt about this?

        Or the fact that the inflation during this administration has American choosing food or medicine.

        We had to choose that long before this administration. The primary source of inflation is corporate greed and the top 0.1% demanding more from the rest of us, while paying less themselves, a position they only get away with because of conservatives.

        Or the fact that during this administration housing has become only a dream.

        Because there are no penalties or dis-incentives for corporations not to buy up all the land and houses. Every time we try to impose such rules, it gets shot down by republicans.

        Or the facts that the current administration opened the boarder to bring cheap labor to replace us.

        Border. Also, the implied violence and expulsion against undocumented workers is what enables employers to pay them such a cheap wage and enforce abysmal working conditions on them. The correct solution is to provide an easy path for work visas, and heavily penalize companies for hiring undocumented workers. You’ll never guess who is against doing that though…

        Your comment is peak “stick in bicycle” meme.

        • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
          210·
          10 months ago

          Im not a republican!

          Food prices inflated during the current administration, food was super affordable. What did Biden do to try and control inflation? Nothing could care less.

          Again housing was affordable during the trump administration its not affordable anymore and if the dems win housing will just continue to be un affordable. Its been 4 years and they have done nothing!

          They opened the boarder to replace you open your eyes man. No body does anything out of the kindness of their hearts.

          You voting for this current mess is the bicycle meme lol

          • tehn00bi@lemmy.world
            1·
            10 months ago

            Thank your buddy Putin for throwing the wheat prices off all over the globe. It’s not just the US that has felt inflation. But your head is so far up your ass you can’t recognize that.

          • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            10 months ago

            Im not a republican!

            Press ‘X’ to doubt.

            Food prices inflated during the current administration, food was super affordable. What did Biden do to try and control inflation? Nothing could care less.

            Which grocery company does Biden run where he can decide to reduce the prices?

            Again housing was affordable during the trump administration its not affordable anymore and if the dems win housing will just continue to be un affordable. Its been 4 years and they have done nothing!

            As someone who had to look for housing 3 times during Trump’s administration: no, it wasn’t affordable.

            They opened the boarder to replace you open your eyes man.

            Who is “They”?

            No body does anything out of the kindness of their hearts.

            No shit. Is that why you are voting for the orange fascist?

            • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
              27·
              10 months ago

              Then dont assume right and whats the point of assuming? I correct you and you still doubt it lol ok I see why you want to vote for “Them”.

              Which grocery store does trump own cause he had way better prices.

              But you found a home now its unaffordable 80% increase in the last 4 years. Thanks Biden you the best!

              They are them!

              Im voting for my interest not against it!

              • Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish
                31·
                10 months ago

                Who is “They” again?

                Grocery prices were “good” during the end of the trump admin because grocery purchases were waaaay down during the global pandemic. Are you saying you’d prefer a global pandemic to paying hiked up prices for eggs?

                I actually bought my first home this year, whaddya know.

      • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
        133·
        10 months ago

        sick of seeing their taxes going to countries not even in NATO.

        This misconception needs to be corrected.

        The tax dollars go to America’s milliary industrial complex. It’s their surplus (which is already budgeted and paid for by the American government) that is sent overseas. No tax dollars leave the USA.

        • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
          214·
          10 months ago

          Forgot money grows on trees! Its still spending our tax dollars thats what I said. I got a crazy idea how about putting that into education or infrastructure. The american people are getting taken advantage any way you try and paint it. Israel has free healthcare and education and they are not part of NATO. They can fund their own genocide!

          • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
            7·
            10 months ago

            I don’t disagree, but the Military Industrial Complex is enabled and funded by both the Republicans and the Democrats. Nothing will stop your tax dollars flowing to it.

        • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
          223·
          10 months ago

          Trump was already president and it was the best 4 years for Americans. Everything started to suck when Biden became president and Trump warned us that this would happen. Prices for everything inflated homes are only for huge corps to purchase yeah great great administration. They were better under trump and thats a fact. I’m not looking to make history with a women president I’m looking to make money for my future self and family.

          • jj4211@lemmy.world
            2·
            10 months ago

            The ‘everything started to suck’ came with COVID, not with a presidential administration. To the extent that inflation and everything ultimately got away from us, that started mostly under Trump’s watch, but even then I don’t think I can blame Trump for the bad economy stuff, except maybe the degree to which he escalated trade war with China, but Biden has been happy to continue it. I don’t see Trump or the GOP willing to go against those huge corps for the sake of the common man, generally I see quite the opposite.

            • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
              26·
              10 months ago

              We cant tell the future, Im going by the past and what I experienced during the Trump administration.

          • the_brownie@lemm.eeEnglish
            6·
            10 months ago

            This take is so incredibly bad I’m almost thinking that you’re a troll. “Everything was good under Trump 😊” -> “Everything was bad under Biden 😡” therefore Trump good, Biden bad is probably the most juvenile and pathetic logical fallacy that persists in our shared political thought. I’m not sure if you remember, but there was a little thing called COVID that happened which shocked supply lines, trade, took a huge toll on our collective mental health, and created an economic crisis. Acting like Biden caused that is so ridiculous, I have a hard time believing that even you believe that.

            You could argue that Biden handled the recovery poorly (and I don’t think that’s a bad argument), but then you’d have to compare it with how Trump would have handled such a recovery – something we really don’t know. Given his contempt for the working class it is doubtful it would be any better, and there was plenty of room for it to be actively worse.

            • NastyNative@mander.xyzEnglish
              18·
              10 months ago

              Im going by past experience and the Trump administration was better for the American people. Shit sucks right now and it will continue this way with the current administration.

      • auzy@lemmy.world
        81·
        10 months ago

        Medicine? You mean like those handled by Obamacare which Trump wants to get rid of? From my understanding that was a huge change (here in Australia we have Medicare which is life changing and similar)

        Also, if you’re getting replaced by people from another country (who have a huge disadvantage), I’d argue maybe you need to work on improving yourself.

        That being said, she’s also increasing the minimum wage and taxing the rich more (whilst reducing tax for middle class and poor). So even minimum wage people are hugely better off.

        Trumps bs has caused issues internationally, even here in Australia. I don’t think you realise how much he is fucking things up for normal people worldwide

          • auzy@lemmy.world
            11·
            10 months ago

            If Trump wins, I’d be happy to have political refugees from the US personally

            And it actually affects us too. All Trump’s shitty racism, bigotry, anti vaccine agenda is being reinforced worldwide because he’s an idiot. And he’s showing our absolutely crap political parties what they can get away with (and they’re using him as an example).

            For our military, don’t forget, he’s giving away confidential military secrets too (I have a friend in the military, and he is putting her at risk).

            This is bigger than the US. It doesn’t affect me as much, but i also have friends in the US

            Also I’m fairly sure I could get a job in the US and residency if i wanted

    • Random Dent@lemmy.mlEnglish
      1·
      10 months ago

      I’ve been saying for a while, George W. Bush is the one who took the door off its hinges and sold it, Trump is just the inevitable crackhead who walked in and started living in the kitchen.

    • FatCrab@lemmy.one
      8·
      10 months ago

      If he loses, I think we see the fractures in the republican party really start to cascade even more than they have since the last election. It’ll still be a stewpot of regressive, reactionary, fascist fellating bullshit, but their goose stepping will be out of sync.

      Meanwhile, a collapse of the Republican part opens the door for a likewise restructuring of the Democratic party, which has for decades now been a big tent party for people who aren’t braindead, but is otherwise pretty ideideologically disparate. And before you wah wah wah FPTP, keep in mind that all RCV initiatives in the US have arisen out of Democratic party affiliated groups.

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        33·
        10 months ago

        That didn’t happen last time. Instead, everyone tried to become the new Trump and take up the mantle. They failed because the real Trump was still running, but without him they’ll be able to adapt.

        Although they’ll struggle to draw in voters the way Trump does. People like Trump because he’s an “outsider”. A new outsider can totally emerge to take up the mantle once Trump is not sucking all the oxygen out of the room.

        Or who knows. Maybe once Trump is defeated everything will go back to normal. 👍

    • barsquid@lemmy.world
      31·
      10 months ago

      Oh here campaigning for Repubs all the way to the end, huh? “Both sides are colluding, Dems don’t reverse Repub policies! Therefore give up and allow as many Repub policies as we can.”

      • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
        43·
        10 months ago

        How did you read any of that from my comment?

        I’m just pointing out that fascism doesn’t go away just because Trump is gone.

        • barsquid@lemmy.world
          1·
          10 months ago

          I’ve seen a lot of comments about the Dems deliberately colluding with Repubs to continue deeper into fascism and assumed yours was one of those.

      • aLaStOr_MoOdY47@lemmy.worldBanned from community
        111·
        10 months ago

        So that the US becomes a one party state? Sounds oddly similar to a certain way of ruling that was used by a certain German leader during WWII. And y’all have the nerve to call Trump a fascist. The irony is through the roof.

  • index@sh.itjust.works
    1435·
    10 months ago

    The same two parties have been cycling in power for a decade and you are now voting between a fascist and a genocide supporter. Democracy already doesn’t exist in USA

  • IninewCrow@lemmy.caEnglish
    198·
    10 months ago

    It’s not so alarming what will happen if Trump gets elected

    What’s more alarming for me is how dumb America could be that they are even considering electing someone like him … or to even have a choice between an average politician or a wannabe fascist and everyone is having a hard time deciding on what the sane option is.

    This is a general intelligence test for America … and so far they are failing.

    • cmoney@lemmy.world
      20·
      10 months ago

      One party in particular has gone to great lengths to wreck the education system, looks like we are starting to see the results of those efforts.

    • lectricleopard@lemmy.world
      162·
      10 months ago

      The culture of America is rooted in bigoted populism. You know what the big political issue of the 1850s was? 1870’s? 1920’s? 1960’s?

      It’s the aftermath of the 60s that kept the creeps quiet for awhile, but we’re regressing to the mean now. This is the real America for better or worse. Always has been.

    • index@sh.itjust.works
      637·
      10 months ago

      have a choice between an average politician or a wannabe fascist and everyone is having a hard time deciding on what the sane option is.

      The “average politician” is backing a genocide and israel fascist government, among other evil regimes around the world like saudi arabia or emirates.

      If you consider either a fascist or a genocide supporter a sane option you are doing something much worst than failing an intelligence test, you are evil and in bad faith.

    • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
      1107·
      10 months ago

      To be fair, a lot of people believe that choosing neither somehow would absolve them of any guilt should fascism win.

      • Psaldorn@lemmy.world
        112·
        10 months ago

        They wish to literally embody the “all it takes for evil to prosper…” axiom

      • BeeegScaaawyCripple@lemmy.worldEnglish
        31·
        10 months ago

        don’t forget the christian second coming accelerationist folk who just want to see it all burn because they’re embarrassed they’ve fucked up too many predictions.

      • index@sh.itjust.works
        639·
        10 months ago

        Directly supporting and advocating for fascists and genocide supporters is much worst than not choosing to participate in a staged election that for a century has granted power to the same two parties

        • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          251·
          10 months ago

          Fucking moronic. See if you feel that way when your friends and loved ones are against the wall.

          You have a chance to do something (however small) to prevent that.

          • index@sh.itjust.works
            321·
            10 months ago

            Fucking moronic. See if you feel that way when your friends and loved ones are against the wall.

            How do you think people with relatives in the middle east feel right now?

      • IninewCrow@lemmy.caEnglish
        541·
        10 months ago

        This is what I mean … the choice is either an average politician or an old wing nut orange man … but the choices are so difficult for Americans to decide that many choose neither and never think that they are instead paving the way for the wannabe fascist.

        I can’t believe that the fate of the world hinges on the deranged decisions of a completely confused people. As much as I don’t want to admit that America has so much influence, they do have literal control over much of the world and they do have the largest most powerful military at the moment. So whoever gets to be leader will set the stage for the stability or instability of the world in the next few years. And it’s all riding on ill informed choices of a very ill informed population.

        • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip
          33·
          10 months ago

          It’s absurd how much power the executive has. The president shouldn’t matter that much. They are responsible for implementing laws that are written and passed by congress. That’s pretty much it. Maybe appoint a SCOTUS judge or two. And a bunch of lower court judges. Pending senate approval, of course.

          Instead they are now nearly unilaterally in charge of the strongest military and largest economy the world has ever seen. Or at least they will, if Project 2025 or Agenda 47 is to be followed.

    • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
      92·
      10 months ago

      This is a general intelligence test for America … and so far they are failing.

      It’s not.

      Most voters aren’t “stupid,” they just live in completely different information universes.

      This has always been the case in America, but I feel like it’s never been so severe, with people basically having their minds sucked into phones by design.

      • kreskin@lemmy.world
        12·
        10 months ago

        Disagree. Americans are too comfortable to do much of anything for themselves. The rise of centrism is basically being OK with whatever, and calling that clever.

      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
        15·
        10 months ago

        My parents have been brainwashed into not believing any news that shows Trump in a bad light. When I show them video of one of his rants, or his dancing, or him giving a microphone a happy ending, they think I’m gullible and am falling for doctored video.

        When people have been trained not to trust legitimate news sources, it’s really, really hard to convince them to come back to reality because, in their eyes, we’re the brainwashed ones.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
          5·
          10 months ago

          Though as an addendum, my mom grew up Republican, but doesn’t know how to use Facebook or anything, and she hates Donald Trump with a burning passion. Its kind of hilarious. She would literally, actually vote for Hitler over him, as his personality is so fundamentally incompatible with her, lol.

          I mention that, as it feels like a test case for someone that hasn’t been conditioned to view him as a superhero or whatever.

        • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
          7·
          10 months ago

          Yep.

          I feel like information hygiene should be a mandatory part of school curriculum now. Like not just a small part, but hammered in.

          It’s too late for our parents I guess, unless either party feels like regulating big tech…

  • Christer Enfors@lemm.eeEnglish
    15·
    10 months ago

    It’s not alarmist: A second Trump term really is an extinction-level threat to democracy

    No, it is not an extinction-level threat to democracy. We have plenty of democracy in the rest of the western world, thank you very much. A second Trump term would be a huge threat to US democracy though. But that’s not what this headline implies. Extinct means gone forever, from everywhere. That’s simply not the case. I’m tired of Americans forgetting that there’s a world outside their borders.

    • leadore@lemmy.world
      3·
      10 months ago

      Why do people make comments only on the headline without reading the article and commenting on that? The article *specifically refers to *“American democracy”. It then goes on to reference other specific democracies for comparison.

      Headlines shorten things and usually aren’t written by the person who wrote the article anyway; they sometimes don’t even reflect the article contents accurately. If you don’t want to read the article, fine, but please don’t make comments based only on the headline.

    • brey1013@lemmy.world
      33·
      10 months ago

      If only democracy was a thing in many, many other countries across the globe.

      Oh well - don’t let us down, America.

  • computerscientistII@lemm.ee
    533·
    10 months ago

    Here, in the German press, I recently heard Trump described as not being the catastrophe itself, he rather is just a symptom of a deep rift going through US society.

    Judging by what he did during his first term: Regarding Germany nothing much happened that was any worse than whatever Obama or grampa Biden did during the adjacent terms. A lot of isolationism happened under Biden. In the term before Trump, a lot of murdering people (including a lot of “collateral damage, aka murderings of civilists”) happened under Obama with his over the top employment of drone warfare.

    I don’t see much of a difference by whoever becomes the next GRÖFAZ POTUS.

  • DoubleChad@lemm.eeEnglish
    414·
    10 months ago

    No one who listens to a wide range of news sources and gets a balanced perspective talks like this. If you agree with this you need to branch out and challenge yourself with different world views, even if it is difficult for you.

    • jj4211@lemmy.world
      91·
      10 months ago

      The thing is with the wide range of news sources, the two sides of ‘Does Trump and his close associates want to undermine democracy or not’ tends to boil down to:

      • Yes, and here’s a long list of concrete quotes and activities directly from Trump and his associates that explicitly declare their intent, including recordings.

      • Nuh-uh, the liberals!

      Trump specifically wants an autocracy and has attracted like-minded folks who would want to advance that concept to their own purposes after Trump dies. The potentially more sane parts of the republican party have decided to ostracize those willing to stand up and object to Trump, notably including Romney and Cheney. Now that he’s stepping down, even Mitch McConnell seems to be corroborating accounts that, privately, he thought Trump needed to go.

      He’s not a nuanced man and he has always been a megalomaniac that has always undermined everything around him if it meant he got a little ahead personally. I don’t understand how anyone can continue to give him the benefit of the doubt.

  • Lovable Sidekick@lemmy.world
    14·
    10 months ago

    The civil servant job thing is an insurance plan disguised as job security. It would enable Trump to fill the bureaucracy with loyal stooges who will keep doing his bidding during the next administration - like his House cronies did when he told them not to pass the bipartisan border security bill so he could use the border as his main campaign issue.

    • andros_rex@lemmy.world
      4·
      10 months ago

      His appointees from the last go round are already still fucking things up. If you’ve tried to interact with the legal system or any regulatory agency, there basically is none. For everything from DHS to FOIA, the government is and has not functioning in many southern states.