“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them,” Sanders said.
“First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well. While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.”
“Will the big money interests and well-paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn any real lessons from this disastrous campaign?” Sanders asked.
“Will they understand the pain and political alienation that tens of millions of Americans are experiencing? Do they have any ideas as to how we can take on the increasingly powerful Oligarchy which has so much economic and political power? Probably not.”
We don’t deserve Bernie. He’s to pure to be infected by being president. With that said, I’d give my left nut to see Bernie in the oval office
He’s to pure
He’s too* pure
I’ll pitch in my right for a full pair
Deal. Now we just gotta talk to Bernie and present our collective nuts
The Democratic Engagement to Elect Sanders. DEES nuts, we could even call it!
“collective nuts” Ha!
They need to swing for the fences more. Don’t just bring forward the items that might pass, bring up the bills that really matter, again and again, and put that in an ad. I’m probably more politically in-tuned than most voters (clearly) and I only know of ONE vote to raise the minimum wage during Bidens term. It should’ve been a dozen votes and then Dems get to say they were fighting for the working class while the GOP gets paid to show up and say “No” to everything.
They need to swing for the fences more.
“That ain’t my style,” said Casey. “Strike one!” the umpire said.
Yeah I forget who said it but I remember a commentator in 2016 complaining that Democrats seemed afraid to get out their and really be Democrats. But TBH I felt like Kamala was doing that.
That party of the Roosevelt is gone since the Clintons showed up. It’s market-based solutions organization nothing. If you don’t like it, you can forfeit your tax rebate
Are you referring to the upcoming lame duck session? Because Dems have a couple of months to try that, and then it looks like the openly fascist GOP is going to control all three branches of our federal government.
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Well put.
Bait used to be believable.
Very good bait
Had Trump won in 2020, he’d have taken the fall for the Recession and Hyperinflation and it would have caused a 2008 effect. Populist Wave haulted, strangled in it’s crib by Coronachan.
Had Trump won in 2020, he’d be done now and his VP would still be the democracy respecting Pence.
Trump when elected in 2016 had no major plan and mostly left the employees of the state intact, and in 2020 the change was minimal. Now there’s a full blown scheme to control the government
In 2020 they didn’t know how much they could get away with. They’ve seen the limits now.
Winning in 2020 means no January 6th shattering the overton window and leading SCOTUS to some interesting choices about power.
2020-2024 had one Supreme Court Justice to appoint. Now there’s another 2 if not 3
In 2020 it would have been close. Now Democrats will have to regain ground, New Jersey New Hampshire and Minnesota are now Swing States.
2016 Trump had his populist wave weakened by Gary Johnson and Evan McMulin who blocked the popular vote and kept states like Colorado and New Mexico out of his hands. 2016 Trump sucked with Hispanics. That initial wave would have burnt out with the COVID fuckery. Instead Democrats slotted in, took the 4 worst possible years, and are handing it back having effectively both given them another shot in the arm and crippled themselves. There goes the court. This isn’t John Kerry, it’s Carter.
I’ve heard of 2020 hindsight, but this is ridiculous
2020-2024 had one Supreme Court Justice to appoint. Now there’s another 2 if not 3
And you bet your ass they’ll appoint them as young as possible so they’ve got their pocket justices for another 40 or 50 years.
Shut the fuck up Bernie, you’ve spent 8 years corralling the working class into the undemocratic party controlled by the rich. Fuck you, you could have actually tried to start a new party but no, you did your job as a tool of the capitalists to keep people voting against their interests.
oh shut the fuck up, you fucking moron. Do something yourself
Hilarious irony, I’m the one trying to build an alternative, you and Bernie are the problem.
What have you read about Bernie that justifies your outrage against him? Because he’s done none of that.
He called for “revolution” only to keep people voting for the Dems instead of building an alternative.
I agree that I didn’t agree with him towing the line. But you can’t argue that’s he’s been nothing but a source of good at least at the Senate level and inspiring new progressives
Overall bad because of pulling young people in the Dems.
Saying that Bernie is garbage because he didn’t dismantle the two party system seems a bit extreme. He actually has joined third parties but they didn’t take off. He’s also definitely anti-capitalist.
He actually has joined third parties but they didn’t take off.
Absolute bullshit. He had the ear of the country in recent years, and could have told everyone to support a third party. Instead he funneled them into the undemocratic party.
He’s a socialdemocrat, which is still capitalism but with welfare.
Depends on what definition you use, classically a social Democrat is someone who believes in using democratic means to gradually and peacefully transition from capitalism to socialism. The definition you are using is actually closer to a social liberal but even that isn’t quite right, welfare does not imply a mixed market economy on its own, welfare can exist in a pure laissez fair market economy. Social liberalism is in favor a mixed market economy which is a further step left from simply a regulated market economy with welfare. In a mixed market economy key industries are publicized and owned and operated by the government for the public benefit while allowing for the possibility of private competition as well as an open market economy in other industries and areas.
That’s fair, you’re right. I was pulling my comment from memory of him fighting against de-regulation of corporations, which I consider to be an anti-capitalist stance. But I shouldn’t have conflated the two.
While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.
Goddamn this hits the exact thing that Democrats really need to learn.
There’s a ton of emotion in this nation. Given:
- The opioid crisis where the people responsible are in perpetual litigation.
- The wars we fought that costed us deaths of young people who had lives ahead of them, and scarred millions more. All so that a few rich asshats could profit.
- The corruption of large companies as they swindle the working class, only to watch legislators continue to profit off of insider trading.
And that’s just to name a few. There’s a ton of emotion in this nation. And Trump, for better or worse, taps into that emotion. The cut and dry democrats, they keep telling us, “The system will work, this time” and you have a public that just screams “well how soon is now then?”
Democrats cannot just keep tapping on the system as it currently stands when the system so obviously doesn’t deliver. There are hungry democrats looking for change to the system to form a more better system that will serve them, and the party just keeps dressing the bones of the long gone bird from days long pass.
Sanders fucking sinks the nail in a single stroke of the hammer on this. And Republicans are using that emotion, that pent up distrust of the system as it is, to move people in their direction. The entire point of this living government is to have a government, to have a system, that matches the people who are alive and having to deal with it. Sanders sees that and cut and dry Democrats keep going “but Trump will ruin the system that doesn’t work for you!!”
Goddamn, one day, they will learn. Democrats will pick up on what Sanders is saying one day. But holy shit, they are going to clearly take an incredibly long and winding road to get there. I don’t agree with where Republicans want to take us. I don’t agree with how Republicans want to get there. But goddamn, we’ve got to hand it to them that they’re actively pointing out the exact same thing the Sanders is pointing out. “Status Quo ain’t going to fucking work anymore.” The sooner the traditional Democrats learn that, the faster they can come back to being relevant.
The single best thing the Dems can do now is take a chapter out of the Republican playbook and obstruct everything, full tilt, no good barred. Inject themselves into everything, all committees, panels, investigations, reviews, etc, and block. See how much Trump can accomplish when the shoe’s on the other foot.
Tbh, unless Wasserman-Schultz and the other imbecilic DNC royalty step down or are made to fuck all the way off somehow, I don’t think the Democratic Party is going to recover from this. And in that case, frankly, they shouldn’t recover. This result is absolutely, unambiguously damning.
Again with this talk about strategy as if any of it is going to matter in 3 months when they start executing people
I mean… I don’t think you’re wrong, but I also think it’s useful to make contingency plans for cases OTHER than the most likely worst-case scenario.
Goddamn, one day, they will learn. Democrats will pick up on what Sanders is saying one day.
In the next government, we’re not having elections thanks to Harris botching it for everyone. The RBG of presidential candidates. Thinking you know best until it’s too late and now we need to plan for the fact you made things worse.
The RBG of presidential candidates.
If holding on too long is RBG’s legacy, then wouldn’t Biden be the RBG of presidential candidates? He held on until after the primaries before dropping out.
Fair enough, point taken.
I don’t buy this. In Nebraska there was an election between an independent union leader and a career politician. The union leader lost.
The consensus seems to be that people that voted democrat in 2020 voted republican this time because they experienced inflation under Biden that think it was his fault.
don’t worry, we’ll replay that record again in a year while they blame biden again
In Nebraska
Uh, that’s your answer. It’s not a magic incantation to win regardless of the odds, but in a presidential election that’s by default 50/50?
If the problem was that democrats did not support the working class enough then why didn’t the union leader win? This isn’t magic or rocket science. Many people thought democrats were responsible for the high inflation because they don’t know macro economics.
If the problem was that democrats did not support the working class enough then why didn’t the union leader win?
He had the albatross of a poor up-ballot candidate around his neck. Same reason most Democrats lost: The party didn’t get people to go out and vote because they didn’t appeal to workers, which hurt every candidate that wasn’t Republican.
Voters are literally saying it was because of inflation during Biden presidency.
Democrats lost because they planned to tax the billionaire class so the billionaires funded the campaign against them.
Except Democrats outspent Republicans by a large margin. This wasn’t an election lost from a lack of donations.
Donations are on the books. Things like Elon Musk buying votes are not on the books. The billionaire class did not want Harris to tax them.
I think what’s missing is the anger. Trump can tap into anger. Bernie could also. The independent didn’t have the base of anger that the GOP did
Anger definitely motivated some but I know many moderates that were convinced democrats were responsible for the inflation.
But they were right! Dems did contribute to inflation (not as much as Trump but still)…Student loan forgiveness not explicitly tied to higher taxes on rich and corps, cutting back on subsidies to defense, oil, and corn syrup, while also not breaking up monopolies which create an environment of price gouging gave merit to the “democrats give out free cash and devalue it all”
Democrats did cause inflation. They did it by not clipping the wings of our oligarchs when supplying aid.
Biden kept his promise “nothing will fundamentally change” and the American electorate unimpeachably rejected it.
The main thing with Sanders campaign was it didn’t feel like a “democrats” vs “republicans”
It was us vs the billionaires
But the DNC could never bear to alienate their biggest donors.
Biden was calling out price gouging throughout his whole presidency.
Harris lost this election because she said she was going to tax the billionaires and so they funded the campaign against her.
For you to throw her under the bus after the billionaires campaigned against her is just going to ensure no future politicians will challenge the billionaire class again.
Harris had more billionaire donors than Trump and she out-raised him almost by $700 million. Of course there was plenty of dark money floating around and Musk dropped a ton of money into Pennsylvania, but don’t act as if Biden and Harris were working class darlings. Calling out price gouging is all good and well, and realistically, there’s only so much the president can do legally to combat inflation, but he did have the bully pulpit and a little bit of lip service to price gouging was not enough obviously. He could’ve been out there daily essentially doxing these companies and their ceos putting the fear of God in them.
Populism is a dirty word to the establishment, but both Trump and Bernie are populists. In fact, the first part of their message is essentially the same: America is going to shit, the Economy is terrible, and you’re getting fucked. The difference, of course, is that Trump points the finger at immigrants and others as the reason why this happening, while Bernie points the finger at the Oligarchs. The true power of populism is the threat of using the majority against the minority. It’s why it can lead to violence and mob rule.
People want someone to pay for the pain they are feeling, Trump is doing that, although of course it’s completely misguided and fucked up. The Democrats are not willing to do that. At some point, they’re going to need a Teddy Roosevelt like figure who comes along and essentially says to them, “hey listen I know it’s crazy, but if we don’t do something about the wealth inequality and the ruling class, we’re all gonna get our heads chopped off.”
It’s not a magic incantation to win regardless of the odds
Sorry, I guess I should have said this twice. You don’t win Nebraska just by touching up the progressive message a little. Propaganda still exists, party loyalty still exists, racism still exists. But he did a hell of a lot better than any slow and steady liberal candidate would do. And in races that aren’t in deep red states, doing better is enough to win.
Why are you still here? The election is over, you got what you wanted. Just fucking leave.
The consensus seems to be that people that voted democrat in 2020 voted republican this time because they experienced inflation under Biden that think it was his fault.
What consensus is saying this? Outside of Latino men and first time voters shifting to Trump, most analysis (so far) is that the Democrats lost around 10-15 million votes from 2020, compared to Trump losing only 2 million. If all the Dems/Undecideds moved to Trump, he would have not lost voters.
What was the Red vs Blue turnout in Nebraska in 2020 vs 2024, I bet that would go a long way to explain why the union leader lost.
Agreed. That “consensus” is another bs talking point to cover up that they yet again alienated their own voters to appease their masters.
because they experienced inflation under Biden that think it was his fault.
yeah, that’s problem all around the world, people are too dumb to understand how two years of covid and ongoing war in europe affects our lives and demand that someone just takes care of it.
so in a year we will get populist pro-russian billionaire prime minister who will just start dropping more inflation money around and tells people “see? i will take care of you!” (while stealing some of these money for himself, of course)
And Harris was too stupid to just come out and say that she’d do that. Not Trump though. See that huge sign behind him at rallies? “Trump will fix it”.
The dem strategy should have been to bombast like Trump, but more. Make America greatER. Would have really taken the wind or of his sails, IMO.
yeah, i don’t think that trying to out-idiot an idiot is valid strategy, especially if you don’t aim at stupid voters.
First of all, it is hard to beat career politicians. They have a track record, experience. Second, you’re in Nebraska. Third, and most importantly, the goal is not for a single person to win, but to build a strong organization that will make people’s lives better, and that would over time get more people to vote, because they would understand that it matters.
In other words, big corporate Democrats are mediocre at best, and often much worse than that, so of course people stay home. But if you think they’re the wave of the future, hey, do whatever you like.
First of all, it is hard to beat career politicians.
This counters what Bernie said.
Second, you’re in Nebraska.
I’m not in Nebraska. Just giving one of many examples of politicians that support the working class losing because of the billionaire class.
Third, and most importantly, the goal is not for a single person to win, but to build a strong organization that will make people’s lives better, and that would over time get more people to vote, because they would understand that it matters.
Scapegoating the democrats that tried to tax the billionaire class prevents this from happening.
But if you think they’re the wave of the future, hey, do whatever you like.
I don’t think they’re the wave of the future. I think the billionaire class countered Harris because they didn’t want to be taxed like she laid out in her plans and now people are trying to scapegoat them, ensuring it will be less likely that the next person will try it again. Just like the billionaire class wants.
We need to MAGA up the liberals. They think liberals were insufferable before, we about had enough of this establishment bullshit.
Ngl, Neoliberal Populism sounds bad.
Authoritarian Left sounds bad too, but it would nice if they executed the rule of law instead of making excuses to remain politically neutral.
It’s sucks so bad. So fucking bad.
No
I don’t know about MAGA, but the Democratic party definitely needs to go hard into the same kind of obstructionism that the Republicans have been doing. No validation of insane policies, no negotiating with terrorists.
And when everyone accuses the Democrats of not cooperating, they need to just stay quiet and stay the course. For the next four years, the legislature is closed.
No. Don’t stay quiet. Blame the Republicans!
I saw on one of the newscasts on election night that the overturning of Chevron deference is going to come back to kneecap the whole GOP agenda because they’ll have to pass all their (de)regulatory changes through Congress which will be, as you say, closed.
Republicans can be evil and Democrats work with them an compromise on killing half of them.
Democrats consider maybe paying postal workers and Republicans stop it and cry how it’s unconstitutional to have people paid for their labor.
If the Democrats got a spine and told Republicans “Just shut up, you complained about breaking segregation.” And get things done, we’d be a fucking utopia.
I’m pretty sure that’s what we were trying to do back in 2016, but it was her turn.
Check reddit and .world and you’ll see the people doing that.
Nah, I’m good. Been punk rock long enough to know it’s just gonna be the thing to hate. Just planning in my head how the subversion works this time. I just hope they tear it ALL down this time and stop f’ing around.
Yeah dude so punk rock man!
Jesus fucking Christ we are all doomed
Sanders is the OG
“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them,” Sanders said in a statement Wednesday. “First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well. While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.”
Dems 100% sold them out and assumed they’d still vote D as long as a handful of issues were different.
The worse the Republicans got, the worse Dems got. Because they could get away with it and it increased donations.
The thing is it just energizes republicans and depresses Dem turnout.
If the goal is winning elections is a terrible strategy.
If you only care about money and the election is just a grift to you tho, it’s a win/win. The result of the election doesn’t really matter.
There was never really that much risk of Dems losing voters to the Repubs (at least as long as Trump was the R candidate). The real damage came from Dems losing enthusiasm.
You mean to say that Dick Cheney’s endorsement didn’t excite the base?
This. I just had a very long argument with someone else that completely and utterly failed to grasp this simple concept. Trump ran as the most conservative conservative ever and his base loved him for it. Harris ran as the most conservative liberal ever and her base gritted their teeth and grudgingly trudged to the polls. And then the DNC is shocked and flabbergasted that they didn’t get a better turnout.
Centrists will never understand that when you run to the right, the right doesn’t buy it and the left believes you.
The thing that has driven me crazy for so long is this is the situation in America.
There are 70M Americans that will vote Republican and nothing will ever change their minds
There are 70M Americans that will vote Democrat and nothing will ever change their minds
There are a couple million independent undecided voters that everyone goes after
Then there are 100M+ people that sit out the election and no one seems to try to understand what would make them vote. It’s so crazy that we have just decided that there are red states and blue states and that’s how it is. A party that could retain some of either party while activating half the people that sit out would be a force to reckon with.
As the Democratic Party has tried to find some way to win again they have gone after which group? The handful of independents and the 70M republicans that aren’t going to vote for them ever. And the people sitting it out probably aren’t looking for them to shift right, if so they would be republicans.
and now the ratchet effect will kick in again:
“See? The people WANT the republicans. That’s why they keep electing republicans. Therefore, if we want to be competitive, we must become more like republicans.”
To be fair, they should’ve voted Dem, but instead sat out against their own best interest.
The electorate is incredibly fucking stupid.
The strategy made sense to anyone with half a brain. It seems I overestimated the median American, though.
You’re right. Lot of people sat out because of inflation, which was driven by corporate greed, which of course a Republican is not going to address. The electorate needs a fucking education. Prices have stopped climbing aggressively. They’re not going to go back down. Wage growth is the next step, which is another thing a Republican will not address. Americans cutting off their nose to spite their face.
Dems had 3 years and change to address insane profiteering and price gouging that started with COVID “supply chain issues” which was wrapped under the guise of inflation and record profits. Where’s that bill again?
Kamala made 1 mention of a plan to scrutinize this issue and then backed down because of some potential backlash.
There’s education and there’s gaslighting. Your point is the latter.
Democrats have definitely become the elitist party. They parade their rich celebrity friends around to inspire your vote. Can it become more ridiculous?
They parade their rich celebrity friends around to inspire your vote. Can it become more ridiculous?
Yes. They thought Dick Cheney would do the trick.
Do you by chance mean Liz Cheney?
No, I mean every centrist’s Senpai, DICK Cheney. They were so fucking happy when they got the endorsement of their favorite living war criminal not named Netanyahu.
Oh, lol. I honestly thought he was dead.
I’m relatively centrist in that I hold positions from both the left and the right, but I’m also anti-authoritarian and anti-war. I can’t stand Dick Cheney.
And you’re saying “billionaire” Donald Trump up on stage with the wealthiest man in the world is somehow more in-touch?
Jesus Christ, get real you guys.
Obviously voters seem to think he’s more in-touch
Intelligence is a bell curve, after all.
Just wait until Ted Cruz switches parties and runs as a dem for President in 2028
Don’t you mean Trump? The literal billionaire who represents the richest man in the world? Weird
Yea but with the republicans you already sorta expect it. Harris pivoted from a really sensible campaign that honestly I think would’ve won, to “look at all these rich people, celebrities and even right-wing warmongers who support me!” - and while I get the point - a dirtbag like Cheney supporting Harris is a sign of how fucked up Trump REALLY is - the message might not have been as clear to everyone.
Like I give a fuck about whatever Bernie says at a time like this. Shut up and stop acting like you know what’s best for us, this is some fine Monday morning QB that’s completely unhelpful. Come at me Bernie bros.
?? What ??
Who do you want to listen to? The dem strategists that failed miserably?
Rings a bit hollow. Biden stood up for unions, did not interfere with strikes, and always sided with the worker.
The other party… celebrating layoffs, cutting the fat, blocking unions.
So sure, maybe they could be better. But to say they abandoned the American worker, thats a bit of a stretch.
Love Bern, but right now he’s playing Monday morning QB.
My guy, Biden blocked a railroad workers strike because it endangered corporate interests, and he didn’t give them a key piece they were asking for: paid sick leave.
Not trying to be rude, the media cycle buried that result.
The unions got the sick leave, after the media reported the strike ended without it.
It was accomplished a couple weeks later, if I recall correctly.
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
optics matter and he failed to secure that.
I agree, optics matter to the public and media.
The media has sane washed an insane old person, while negatively spinning or outright ignoring any Biden accomplishment.
The fact is, in this system, we’re trying to convince a small group of undecided folks in a few swing states to get involved and make a choice.
The majority of the public is too tired and busy to bother to review the facts, and happy to watch an opinion of the matter - whether it’s true or not.
If it fits into their world-view there’s no need to challenge it.
No, that undecided group does not exist, this election clearly demonstrated that. Trump results are nearly identical to 2020. What exists are people who are not engaged or disalusioned. They also are poor and going to vote is a meaningful event that takes energy that they don’t have.
Yeah, you’re acting in bad faith here too.
The numbers of votes clearly show over 24 million people sat out 2024 vs 2020.
Undecided doesn’t mean they’ll make a decision on voting day.
I know of several people who willingly sat out because the state they’re in was always decided and they didn’t feel it would matter.
4, not the 7 they wanted or deserved. he doesn’t get any credit for this. he broke the strike weakening their position.
That’s how contract negotiations work dumbass
😂 hard to negotiate with a gun to your head via the government.
I’m partially agreeing, I want to point out that they did get 7 days allotted.
Not all 7 of those are from sick time, so you’ve got a point.
I find it a reach to say the administration gets no credit when it’s definitely been assigned to them on multiple fronts for the effort.
Congress was involved here too. Do you think our president should be a despot?
Were you directly involved in negotiations?
The people who were directly involved, gave the Biden administration credit for an assist.
Dig deeper the people who gave credit were the same members who didn’t support the strike in the first place. iirc.
I blame everyone involved who voted to break the strike. don’t try to assert for me things I havent asserted.
So you don’t acknowledge when you’re wrong, and will continue to move goalposts. You’re taking a defensive posture.
It’s becoming clear now.
You’re a bad faith actor.
You’re of course welcome to continue believing that. Thats of course your prerogative. But I’m just going to point to the results since they speak for themselves.
Harris is missing 20million votes. You were warned and decided that arguing with me about the lesser evil ‘optimal voting strategy’ than realizing the danger harris was putting you in was a good idea. 👍 Good job. Now go convince those 20million other individuals since you’ve failed here.
You know what they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. (I know you struggle with analogies, you’re the 🐴)
Seems that the “big money interests” would be at odds with helping the working class.
Bernie Sanders is talking that shit.
At this point I’d be in favor of him just starting a podcast and enjoying retirement. The left has to go around the DNC to effectively deliver their message, it’s foolish to think otherwise.
The dnc should all fall on their sword politically and admit that it would been better today had they given being their blessing and support when it would have mattered.
Then give Bernie power in the dnc to craft the future of the party. Find a new direction while there’s still time
He’s 83. It’s best for him to leverage his celebrity than to really hunker down with an administrative role. If Trump can find true believers best believe the good guys can.
It’s cute to read all of these comments attempting to strategize without realizing that it’s all moot in a P2025 world.
We are fucked. It’s too late to discuss realigning for “the next election,” because there will never be a (fair) one ever again.
You are demoralized, i get it
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Almost like he could have saved this whole scenario in 2016. Fuckin DNC kiss the ring Hillary bullshit.
Why isn’t he running for president? Or he just never won the primaries?
Snubbed by Dnc royalty wanting to play it safe.
Because the dnc would rather lose running center right to right wing policies than be actually progressive.
In related news:
In June 2016, a class action lawsuit was filed against the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and former DNC Chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz for violating the DNC Charter by rigging the Democratic presidential primaries for Hillary Clinton against Bernie Sanders. Even former Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid admitted in July 2016, “I knew—everybody knew—that this was not a fair deal.”
