It’s amazing how I’ve never ever seen a single thread on this metaphor and not seen at least two to three male users get furious and thus prove the metaphor 100% correct. Not once. Every single time. It’s like catnip they can’t resist it.
no, women chose the man (Trump)
That is not in agreement with exit polling, what is your source?
Frankly at first I was angry at those who chose the bear, but after learning the majority of young men are republican I blame them less and less.
It’s amazing how I’ve never seen a single thread negatively generalize half the population and not seen at least two or three people from that half of the population get indignant. It’s almost like people don’t like being stereotyped.
Goofball.
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It’s like it’s some response to being insulted.
If you feel insulted by that then you’re exactly the kind of person it’s talking about.
Okay
If there isn’t a movie yet where a woman meets a strange man in the middle of the woods and he starts acting creepy and she gets scared, then she sees a bear and decides to chance it with the bear… and then the bear runs past her and mauls the creepy guy-
Well there should be.
We need a cocaine bear 2
I am both disappointed and not surprised that half of young men voted for him
Half of everybody voted for him. This is such a ridiculous post, those are barely off the numbers for the whole election. Which is ridiculous, but why single out this group?
“Still deciding which minority is to blame” -The Onion.
Gotta be pissed off at someone, I suppose. Some blame leftists, some blame Latinos, some blame men.
That’s just not true. I’m waiting to see final numbers, but (just like every election) around 1/3 of those eligible bother to vote consistently. And half of them voted for Trump. The undemocratic Electoral College didn’t help, but apathy won him the White House. And it may just cost us our democracy…
I think in this situation it is probably more important to look into why more than half the population chose Trump.
Probably because most voters want someone that reminds them of their dad as the President.
wants to have sex with them?
I mean, it sounds to me like men also chose the bear. Why did they choose the bear, is it because they’re stupid? Probably not, they likely just thought their odds were better with the bear.
Dropping the metaphor, and looking in the cold light of day, those young men saw a better future under Trumpler than Harris. Articles signaled this well before, and nothing was done to address it.
Will their future be better - probably not. Can they be made to think their future is better, that’s a tough one. Remember, you can trick one group of people into thinking they have more rights by stripping the rights of those around them.
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
Well, there’s still 42% who voted for Harris. What’s wrong with them?
Nothing is wrong with them, but I get not wanting to gamble with thos odds.
Especially when, according to the national park service, “when bear encounters do happen, they are most often nonviolent”. So if you had to gamble…
Are you saying that theres >42% chance a bear will be on your side in the wilderness then?
That makes no sense. By all arguments taking “a man” is prolly the far better choice anyways, people are just stupid.
There’s a 100% chance that “the bear” is a fucking bear
Theres at least a decent chance “a random man” is an asset to survival and your odds of success go up instead of down…
There’s no scenario where choosing “the bear” improves your odds of success >_>;
Unless the bear is starving, rabid or you are between it and its cubs, there is a 99% chance that the bear will just leave you alone, and probably run away.
I’m guessing that’s not as high a percentage when it comes to men considering statistics involving rape and murder.
So yeah, I’d say that there are a lot of scenarios where choosing the bear improves your odds of success.
It’s like people think there are hundreds of thousands of bear maulings ever year or something…
You’re changing the hypothetical into something it’s not. “Odds of success” are a weird thing to think about when it’s just a walk in the woods.
The scenario is you are lost in the woods and you either have to choose between a wild bear, or a random man.
Many types of bears won’t run away, they will actively attack you. Some will run, but many will simply tear you limb from limb just cuz.
I haven’t seen a version that says lost in the woods, just alone. Either way though, you can see it as saying they’d take a chance of being mauled over a chance of being raped.
And how would you react to if a TERF posted the same thing but changed it to a trans woman instead of a man?
Still a woman posting about her fear of being raped.
But now you maybe see how fucking awful ot sounds, right? How it makes you sound super bigoted, perhaps?
Google the word hyperbole, you fucking moron. Nobody can be this dumb.
It’s a stupid hyperbole that just says “I’ve never actually seen a bear up close”
It makes women sound stupid and naive, any woman who has actually encountered a bear up close will go “fuck no, a bear will fuck you up”
Bears will literally tear your limbs off just cuz, with little effort. You are nothing more than a ragdoll to them. They have thousands of pounds on you, and they can run twice as fast as you.
No person who actually knows wtf a bear us like would ever choose the bear.
The hyperbole instead just sends a message of “women are stupid” which shouldn’t be true, I would hope the average woman is smart enough to know that while being alone with a man is risky, a fucking bear is still way way worse.
It makes women sound stupid
No. But this your comment makes you sound stupid.
On top of being stupid, you obviously still don’t understand what hyperbole is.
No, I know what it is. Hyperbole when taken too far is just a fancy way to dress up sexism/racism.
The litmus test here is so easy.
Replace “man” with “black man” and repeat the phrase, tell me if it’s still something you’d say out loud amongst friends or not.
Suddenly doesn’t sound so paletteble does it? Maybe sounds kinda racist?
Literally anytime you wanna try and argue if a phrase maybe is problematic, and you wanna try and argue that because the subject is “men” makes it lt count, just change it to “black men” and double check it didn’t suddenly become super fuckin racist sounding.
If it did, it always was sexist.
Either you are one of the best trolls I ever met, or you forgot to take your pills. Don’t bother to reply to this, you are on my block list now.
No, I’m definitely not saying that I know the odds of a bear attack, which is why my quote was “most often” and not “>42%”.
What I am saying is 14.8% of, or roughly 1 out of every 6, women in America has been raped. Worse yet, between the ages of 16-24, they are 3-4 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted. So in general, women have a very real fear of being alone and unguarded around men, many suffering from PTSD from encounters while being left alone with a man.
Knowing that you have a 1 in 6 (or worse depending on age) chance to be raped in your lifetime is… bad odds. So it’s understandable that being alone with a man actually scares them more than a bear, regardless of the statistical odds of a bear attack (which again, are pretty low anyways).
And seeing that 56% of men aged 18-29 voted for a convicted sex offender, probable statutory rapist, “grab 'em by the pussy” enthusiast, who pushed back women’s rights, that means over half the men in that demographic don’t think these are “hills to die on”. So now women have a very real fear, and/or have actually been raped, and all these men are voting like their fears and rights don’t matter… yep, I get choosing the bear.
So yeah, we can argue until we are blue in the face about survival odds, but we would be missing the whole point of the discussion if we did.
Yeah the overwhelming majority of woman interactions with men is non violent.
I’m about to have a violent interaction…
Please don’t hurt a woman for no reason
Only if they voted for trump
Political violence has only led to good things throughout history
Political violence has sometimes led to good things
What if they’re at the receiving end?
Very true, but the overwhelming majority of women interact with men overwhelmingly frequently compared to bears.
Almost as if the whole thing is a light hearted way of drawing attention to a very real fear women live with every day, that stats posted above bear (get it?) witness to.
Plus, if we are being pedantic, it’s not “interactions with men”. It’s “would you, as a woman, feel safer encountering a man or a bear when you are alone in the woods”.
If only it were possible to make points without inventing goofy and easily ridiculed scenarios.
I mean… it is tho innit? But when it comes to topics that people have actual PTSD over, sometimes inventing goofy scenarios makes the hard conversations easier.
So maybe the problem isn’t the goofy scenario, but the fact that people feel the need to ridicule rape and sexual assault fears regardless of how they are presented?
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What’s a “black prison”? Is that like an off-the-books CIA site where they keep people who won’t be found? I’d definitely take the bear, the CIA would probably torture me to get me to tell them how I found their black prison.
If we are talking about odds, I’d rather run into a bear than any human being in the woods regardless of skin color because humans kill humans in an exponentially greater number than bears kill humans.
So sure. I’d rather run into a bear than a black person in the woods. Or a white person. Or a brown person. Or even a blue person. And you do have a small chance running into one of the blue ones in one area that’s bear country.
Oh I thought you were talking about smurfs and not the Fugates and I’m delighted when I see smurfs. It means the drugs are working
This is wrong reasoning though. The only reason why bears kill less humans is because like you say, less bears interact with humans. But if you go with the premise of putting a bear and a human next to each other, then a bear is always more dangerous.
It’s like saying ingesting cyanide kills less people than car accidents. That doesn’t mean ingesting cyanide is less dangerous than driving a car.
I thought we were talking about odds?
Why did you bring up odds if this was about the “right” reasoning?
Any woman who says “the bear” honestly, I have to assume" has never once actually encountered a bear in the woods.
Prolly has had extremely few encounters with anything in the woods.
People hang out on trails all the time, and are alone with another stranger on the trails extremely often, and the extremely vast majority of those interactions are overwhelming positive in all configurations. The vast majority of humans are helpful at worst, for all genders.
People like to help other people out.
Yes, I would vastly prefer to encounter a gun toting right wing MAGA nut on the trail than a fucking bear, thats not even a hard question to answer, its a fucking bear.
Im left wing by a long shot but I still know that even the average right wing MAGA nut is actually prolly still gonna be, on average, helpful and/or friendly, or maybe just cold and indifferent towards me, out in the wilderness.
Hell I’d actually honestly say this scenario is one of the few times I’d choose a MAGA right wing nut over a fellow left leaning fellow.
I love my fellow liberals but I also have to acknowledge the vast majority of us are city slickers, many many of which prolly couldnt even start a fire if their life depended on it (cuz its just not a thing that matters in the city)
Meanwhile the odds the random selected MAGA right wing gun nut prolly shows up with hunting equipment and knows how to do shit like make a lean to and skin a rabbit.
If I got to pick between the two, I’d choose the gun nut cuz Id rather risk surviving with a gun nut than dying with a fellow city slicker, love yeah all but like, we aint fuckin surviving in the woods long, thats just a fact lol.
Edit:
If you seriously think this sort of statement is okay to make, I dare you to replace “man” with “black man” and go post it to prove how it’s totally not a bigoted statement
Cuz any argument you try and make about “man” in this statement should hold water even if you change it to “black man” without suddenly sounding super fuckin racist.
Don’t get me wrong, in your situation, where you are man alone in the wilderness, meeting another person is really not so terrifying of a concept. Bears aren’t likely to attack and maul you tbh, but neither is the “gun nut” in your hypothetical.
This isn’t what women are talking about when they say “I’d choose the bear”. They are actually referencing a genuine fear many of them have being alone around men. Reportedly 14.8%, or roughly 1 out of every 6, women in America has been raped. And between the ages of 16-24, they are 3-4 times more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted. Meaning these fears are at their peak during formative years.
We could argue till we are blue in the face over which is more likely to attack, a bear or stranger in the woods, but it would be completely missing the point of the discussion.
Many women have genuine fears and/or PTSD regarding being alone with men, and so when asked what they would feel safer encountering alone in the woods, they choose the bear. Even if you believe their choice is the “wrong one”, please try to understand what they are trying to communicate by making it.
They are actually referencing a genuine fear many of them have being alone around men.
It still makes you sound stupid, tbh, when you admit you haven’t a clue how much more threatening a fucking bear is.
A man, no matter how scary, isn’t going to tear your fucking arms off with one hand lol
It demonstrates a degree of naivety that you truly have never actually seen a bear in person.
It just makes the person sound stupid.
At least pick an animal that is less of an instant threat. Like a cougar.
A bear will literally reduce you to multiple pieces without a second thought, and with barely any effort. It’s a bear
To be honest, being so unable to grasp the point being made makes you sound… stupid tbh. But I don’t actually think you are stupid, so I assume you are just really dug in deep with how much “choose the bear” annoys you (maybe because you are offended on behalf of men, or on behalf of bears?).
So you want to call it stupid instead of just being willing to acknowledge “choosing the bear” is a polite way of saying “men assault women at such a high rate that women are genuinely terrified to be alone with them.” And honestly, it demonstrates a degree of naivety that you have never truly experienced the constant threat of sexual assault for you to consistently think this was ever about bears.
Any woman who says “the bear” honestly, I have to assume" has never once actually encountered a bear in the woods.
i have to assume you never were a woman… is that correct assumption, smartass?
Yet the majority of violent interactions women experience come from men
Yeah because women don’t interact with several bears on a daily basis you jack ass
You’re sure doing your part to make sure women want to interact with you. I bet you’ve convinced most of them that throwing a fit and calling people names when you don’t get your way makes you the best guy.
“the overwhelming majority of these m&ms are not poisonous.”
mmm sounds delicious
You do, of course, realise that argument was originally concocted to oppose immigration?
no, I made it up because it’s an easy analogy. but my argument is still different on two fronts.
first, the claim is absolute when it should be comparative. documented immigrants commit less crime than citizens. undocumented immigrants even less than them.
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
men on the other hand commit crime in ridiculously higher rates than women, and even disregarding that, men commit more serious crimes than women. technically more than bears too.
second, my argument isn’t about opposing men, so it’s not even comparable to the opposing immigration argument. it’s about the fact that men pose a real threat and maybe it’s appropriate to take action to address that rather than get defensive about it.
No, you did not make it up. This article is from 2016. This one is from 2014.
It was a veil for bigotry when Trump said it, it’s a veil for bigotry now. Doing the “FBI crime stats stats but for men” is not the argument you think it is.
I didn’t say I invented it. I said I made it up. it’s not that wild of an analogy to be impossible to come up with it independently. i was thinking of grains and then remembered an old reddit post about putting skittles in an m&ms bowl.
wow they probably stole that too, since it’s such a crazy original idea that no two people can think of it.
again, “FBI crime stats but for men” is not a good critique because again, it’s not comparable to black people. unless you think the police unfairly favor immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants. women do get more lenient sentences but that wasn’t my argument.
if you have any evidence that women commit as many and as serious crimes as men please share. or if you think men are historically oppressed and financially disadvantaged as context to their crime stats, I’d like to hear that.
pointing at vague similarities to other arguments when they are nothing like each other won’t cut it.
They one poisonous m&m in the factory is better than this chainsaw will to your face off, but at least you were safe from potentially being poisoned
hwut
Are you OK?
Idk, women also do dumb violent shit, guess everyone should avoid everybody? Since some humans, regardless of their background, are toxic?
Life is risk. Not taking any risk is choosing not to live. It’s relatively easy to figure out who’s a shithead, of course you should be wary of people, but everyone has to filter out other shitty people constantly, it’s not suddenly some new thing because Trumpers exist.
oh my god this is all lives matter all over again
Ok 42% of men voted for your rights. Most violent crime, SA, and murder is done by men. Potentially in the near future you can’t escape a marriage without a “good” reason and you can’t abort a forced pregnancy.
Bears. Potentially murder and maul you. Majority of bear to human interactions are non violent and happens numerically wise less than Bears. You interact with men more than Bears. By a million times. The interactions with a male could be worse. Than just killed or hurt severally. Which is the only thing you get from a bear.Yes not all men but most men don’t support your rights and crimes are mostly men. Bear impacts are better outcomes than a bad man impacts
I’ve HEARD a lot of women talk about how they’d rather be with a bear. I haven’t actually SEEN any leaving society to go live in the woods with a bear. Nor have I seen many of the men supporting them cut off their testicles and dress as bears.
Now, that leaves me in a pickle. Should I conclude a lot of women are hypocrites and a lot of men are just white knighting, since none of them are actually putting their money where their mouth is? Should I begin questioning if all women talk out of their ass and only take their input to be true if they provide signed statements, ideally notarized?
Nah. Probably not. I’m gonna choose to believe #notAllWomen lie. Just, like, the ones talking about bears.
Overwhelming majority of women interactions with men is not alone in the forest - and that was the setting of this exercise.
Of course I’d rather see a man in crowded office space than a bear, stranded alone in a forest however, math changes.
a whole 7% polled. truly representative/s
Well of it is randomly selected, then i think it is?
and the other 93% are chopped liver because they dont register. kayo, pectate
It’s just saying that 7% of the total people they surveyed fall into the group “men 18-29”. Without knowing how many people were actually polled and how they were selected we cannot say anything about the statistical validity of the sample.
gotta be more than 7% of the population at 18-29.
According to wikipedia, 15-24 age group is about 13% of the population. 18-29 is a slightly older and wider range, so could be 14%. Then obviously only half of those are men, so we end up at 7%. That’s totally plausible
i still think such numbers are underestimates since the amount of people that actively avoid being counted are steadfast about it
Check the statistics for white women :)
Yeah, i think i’m swearing off white women too. It would be tough because i’m white as fuck but i’m considering it.
Fuck.
plot twist they actually choose Trump
Or discourse like that could be why young men are choosing the right.
They’re so wrong to do so in such a vindictive way.
… but that doesn’t mean they’re not doing it. People are petty, including men.
I’m honestly not sure it’s even vindictive. Maybe in some cases, it’s a big complicated issue.
We get such different news in the age of algorithms, they may not even see it as vindictive. I think it’s easy to pull back from a group that paints your identity as a villain, and I think that’s likely some of it.
True. The stereotype is jilted incels but that’s probably not always the case.
They are choosing it because Theo Von / Shane Gillis / Tony Hinchcilff / Dana White / Joe Rogan / UFC / Russian propaganda / random MAGA streamers.
I think it’s too complex to attribute to one thing, I think you’re right that the alt right social media pipeline is real and an issue.
I’m just saying I understand not identifying with a group who trash an identity a person belongs to. They just disengage. Nobody likes being put into a box that paints them as a villain.
Just my opinion of course, the left (as a social group) can examine the current discourse and try to adjust, maybe like framing it as a class struggle or a liberty struggle, or continue being divisive and risk being overridden.
Trump learned how to win friends and influence people from Carnegie. People just want to feel heard, doesn’t matter what you say back to them. It’s essentially slight-of-hand, but for feelings and emotions.
All those other guys know a cashcow when they see one.
All of whom thrive on stuff like man vs bear discourse
If no woman will consent to a guy like that, he’ll just vote for the candidate who promises to abolish consent
Wait… didn’t he win with 57%?
Meaning women were more likely to vote Trump than men?
The cohort age 18-29 as a whole were under the national average. But men aged 18-29 we’re just barely under the national average
while women were massively under the nation average.edit although true it can’t be inferred from this graph alone
That statistic makes sense when considering less of the liberal and/or left turned out while the right held their numbers. Guess the right is more effective at getting their youth to participate in the system while the left in this age range are more disenfranchised every generation.
That seems bang on average for the entire country. If anything that suggests to me that men in that age group are less susceptible to trumps influence since other age ranges of men were in the 60s and 70s
