Honestly call or email the Democratic party offices and voice that you one hundred percent agree with Sanders.
Things are going to get vicious for sure.
The Republicans are doing zero for the working class other than lying to them and giving their money yo billionaires.
Dems supported unions where Trump impugned them
Dems forgave student loans, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems pushed to end noncompetes for the average worker, Republicans went to court to stop it
Dems passed the CHIPS act to bring good paying jobs to multiple communities
Dems passed an infrastructure bill while Trump had 100 infrastructure weeks that accomplished nothing
Trump said he’d fire workers rather than pay them overtime
Harris promised to investigate price gouging, Trump is supported by the oligarchy
Etc, etc
Joe and the train crash is real union support. Please.
Which indicates that policy is secondary to messaging. On every substantive policy metric, Democrats are better than Republicans. People even say they prefer Democratic policies over Republicans’ when polled, by wide margins. So it must be the messenger and the way the message is being conveyed that is losing elections. That’s not to say that policies don’t matter, they absolutely do, but if you’ve got great policies and shit messaging, then you’re not going to win voters over, no matter how much better you are.
The democrats don’t try to appeal to those without higher education. Republicans are great at presenting information in easy to digest bites.
Nonsense. They try nonstop to appeal to Republicans.
You’re like the ultimate contrarian in every comment. It’s kinda weird. I don’t get it. What’s your endgame?
I suppose it looks that way when you already get everything you want from the party.
I forgot which comedian did this bit during their standup but their point was that progressives/liberals/leftists suck at messaging or sloganeering. Their goals are noble but there are no catchy slogans to go with it.
Just think about it. “They’re killing the babies!” is way more catchy and effective than “Access to abortion should be available to everyone. Even if you want to have a child, some complications or health issues may require you to abort the pregnancy as early as you can.” Yeah that’s not reaching everyone, is it? And you can’t scream it like “They’re killing the babies!”
And that’s just an example of policy that was chosen by few states’, which they also voted for GOP, giving them power to ban abortion on federal level. (In case you are wondering which states: Arizona, Missouri, Montana, Nevada)
If you can’t communicate how you can give the people what they want, how do you even counter “Democrats hate America!” or stuff like that?
My body, my choice has been the message since forever.
And that works great as a protest slogan where people are already aware of how it works. But not a great slogan when you want to reach to people who are ignorant about what it entails.
All of those things you posted sound good, but if you look at the details and execution, it’s either a pathetically laughable attempt or something they should have done 3 years ago.
Prosecute companies for wage theft.
Start splitting up monopolies at the beginning of your presidency or vice presidency, not at the end.
Don’t destroy the train union and then pretend that you’re pro-union because you went to one picket line. And as I recall, it was Joe who went.
When you push for non-competes or you push for student loan forgiveness, and the Republicans find legal ways to stop your efforts, find other legal ways to continue your efforts. If you just shrug your shoulders and say we tried, but we couldn’t make your lives better, of course nobody is going to think that you meant a word you said.
The Democrat said 4 years to deliver, or at least to show that they tried very hard to deliver, and they chose to do neither of those. Which is sad.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past. When we don’t get an answer, we just shrug our shoulders. It’s more of the same from Washington politicians. Democrats in Washington certainly represent somebody, but that somebody isn’t you and me.
And if Harris is telling us what she wants to do in the future, we’re immediately going to ask why she and Joe didn’t already do it in the past.
I’m very much on the “Dems fucked this up train” but you’re getting really close to this, which is also true. Because maybe the answer there is "You saw him up on that debate stage right? Or “You know I’m VP, not P right now, right?”
Uh… We all know Trump is bad you’re not proving anything here. However, policies aside, Harris’s campaign sucked ass. If you don’t understand or refuse to accept that then there’s no conversation to be had here.
Edit: I was responding to an argument that doesn’t exist nvm.
Are you trying to make a point? Because you’re not saying anything
I’m not defending Harris’ overall campaign, but I am taking some issue with Bernie claiming that the Democrats have abandoned working class voters.
I like Bernie, and he makes some good points about the lack of any bill put forth to raise the minimum wage. But I think his overall characterization is quite a bit off base, especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
I’ll listen to any counterpoint with an open mind but you have to make one
Oh yeah my bad there. I’ve seen enough “there was no problem with Harris’s campaign” takes that I kinda default to that.
To respond to the actual point you made, let’s first forget about any comparisons to Republicans because that’s just not the point here. After that I wanna establish that Biden’s administration is, by all means, an exception. He ran on an explicitly left-wing platform that Bernie had a role in creating, and despite still being a corporate democrat did things that actually helped the working class. Compared to his campaign Harris ran on “nothing will fundamentally change” and straight up said she didn’t have anything in mind that she’d do differently from Biden regarding the economy. That rejection of change, which shaped her campaign as a whole (the economy is just the most egregious example), is abandoning a working class who desperately needs change. Add in how Harris explicitly tried to court Republicans and we have reason to believe the DNC intended to shift to the right rather than the left, again abandoning the working class.
All fair points. My intended point was that take some exception to Bernie’s blanket statement that the Dems abandoned the working class voters. Though I agree they haven’t focused enough there, nor message it correctly.
Biden definititely ran and led on a more progressively left platform after Bernie and AOC collaborated with them in 2020. I think it’s clear Harris was going to continue that, but I don’t think it was properly messaged
especially when compared to what the Republicans are offering working-class voters. Which is basically nothing
Nothing? They’ll be taking away what working class has now. That’s worse than offering nothing.
I almost feel like someone maybe confused comment threads because it’s not directly related to your main comment.
Pelosi’s attitude is a big reason why
She believes voters work for her and need to do what she wants or she scolds them, afterwards they’ll listen.
Bernie believes the best way to get elected is to show voters you’ll help them.
One method is very effective, it’s just foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations pay a lot of money to make sure candidates like that never make it out of a primary.
If an elected official put the average voter first, where does that leave the wealthy?
Not first? Completely unacceptable, Thurston get my mink we’re leaving.
One method is very effective, it’s just foreign governments, billionaires, and corporations pay a lot of money to make sure candidates like that never make it out of a primary.
Slight disagreement. They pay a lot of money so candidates like that don’t make it into a primary.
Bernie is one of the few remaining politicians in our country who are in politics as a service vs a career. I wouldn’t be surprised if after every time he gets elected he consoles himself, “this’ll be the last time you need to run, this is the cycle where we’ll fix American politics and you can go back to your dream of opening an ice cream shop.”
Quick Quiz: How many bills has Bernie written and got passed during his career?
You’re just gloating that your wing of the party has blocked progressive legislation.
I’ll not even list the progressive bills Biden has signed, because you should know them. You know Bernie and Biden are friends. If Bernie wanted Joe’s support on a bill, it was certainly obtainable. But, you have to have a bill first.
I’ll not even list the progressive bills Biden has signed, because you should know them.
I know all the bills centrists love to call progressive. I also know what progressive legislation got very publicly killed. Including the minimum wage increase amendment that Sanders introduced. Good work on that. I’m sure the thumbs down you’re all so happy with will continue to show progressives who’s boss.
Ted Kennedy brought a minimum wage package to the floor every year of his terms. Sometimes he’d win. Sometimes he’d lose. But, either way it didn’t stop him. It’s nothing unusal.
Ted Kennedy is dead. And the portion of the party that seems interested in representing workers seems to have died with him.
Matter of fact, it was Biden who raised the minimum wage of all federal employees by executive order. Rising tide and all that.
It was Harris who promised to take the issue of raising the minimum wage for everyone. We all know what happened. Guess it wasn’t so important
Yet, Bernie blaming democrats for not considering working Americans is commonly accepted by some.
Note: you can always depend on simple facts being downvoted on Lemmy.
How many amendments?
Who made a whole chunk of the population realize, they actually want healthcare for all?
This talking point, as well as a living wage, appeared and stayed relevant because of him. Also student loan forgiveness.
All Dem candidates have to incorporate those goals now, to be worth considering by the population. The Reps have other talking points, like racism, that cater to their base, so they don’t have to follow this trend.
I don’t know where this came from. Healthcare has been an issue since Nixon, and if you want to name a champion of it and minimum wage, without doubt it would be Ted Kennedy who produced many bills on both issues.
Three. Is that a good metric?
Two were to rename post offices.
But even some of his detractors concede that his impact cannot simply be measured in the number of bills passed. Whereas the vast majority of lawmakers have chosen to play the inside game—crafting compromises, extracting concessions, and leaning on leadership—to score legislative victories, Sanders, in the back end of his career, discovered that he could leverage power from the outside, using public spectacle, media ubiquity, and grassroots pressure campaigns to move the legislative debates in ways that he never was able to earlier in his career.
“He has really accomplished very little legislatively,” said former Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), a consistent Sanders skeptic. “He has accomplished a lot in terms of ideology. And that’s an important role, to be the guy out there speaking.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-bernie-sanders-really-got-done-in-his-29-years-in-congress/
The fact is that in 2026 Bernie will have 20 years in the Senate, and he’ll be 89 when he finishes his term. He also has been very unproductive. But, you’ll still cut him slack, but Biden is too old.
If you are trying to come for Bernie Sanders as if he doesn’t have a personal history and career steeped in working to help people in this country, you are fucking up.
But, don’t ask the question Right?
You can ask whatever questions you want. It’s a free country for at least another couple months.
Acting like it meaningfully dilutes the work he’s done is kind of bullshit though.
Therein lies the question. What has he actually done? His job is a Senator, not cultural icon who people fall in love with.
And you are free to not love him. I’m neither obligated nor motivated to change your opinion. He’s got a wikipedia page. If you consider none of those things accomplishments that’s your right. It definitely does not boil down to a single metric of “how many bills has he passed” though.
Even though you are mostly a troll, I won’t block you because your bullshit is interesting from time to time (same reason I haven’t blocked you up to now) but I won’t reply on this topic again. Good day to you.
Met Bernie a long time ago. Was just a kid, but he seemed nice. The guy is 83, and there are legions standing in line to give him a pass. It’s hypocritical to renounce Biden as being old but saying it’s ok for Bernie, especially comparing their body of real accomplishments.
Pelosi’s response kinda proves that the DNC is just the other side of the shit coin running the funhouse arcade game of American democracy
The Pelosi interview is honestly batshit insane. She doesn’t see the election as a rejection of the party, thinks the Democrats are doing well, Kamala Harris did everything right, Sanders is wrong, and then she made some backhanded comments about how Biden should have dropped out earlier. I know some of that is spin she that she has to say, but it’s still deeply out of touch.
Honestly, fuck Pelosi. Completely out of touch. I wish we could ride ourselves of these dinosaurs.
Now this is
podracingpolitics!
Kamala Harris did everything right
She presented her message of ‘vote for me to keep things the same’ flawlessly. Unfortunately, people who live paycheck to paycheck don’t want things to stay the same.
They’re looking forward to wishing they were able to live paycheck to paycheck…
Lord knows you’re looking forward to watching people suffer just so you can lecture harder.
Scolding voters into voting for someone who represents no deviation from an untenable status quo has failed, very publicly, twice. It doesn’t matter how bad the opponent is. This strategy is shit. Stop using it. Learn, damn you all. Learn.
I voted for Harris.
Me too and I wasn’t saying that I’m looking forward to it…I’m saying the economics are going to be horrible and we’re going to long to these times back.
While that is why will likely happen, most voters aren’t knowledgeable enough to recognize it. They don’t know what tariffs are or how it’ll effect us, for example. They trust the media to tell them the truth, which is horribly misguided.
Yeah, if Trump pulls the stuff he said he’d pull (Tariffs and mass deportations), then the supply of goods inside the country will fall drastically, resulting in stronger inflation. Which will then result in consumption of anything nonessential to collapse. This will lead to increasing unemployment.
She presented her message of ‘vote for me to keep things the same’ flawlessly. Unfortunately, people who live paycheck to paycheck don’t want things to stay the same.
Nope. Her plan was “I am going to lower taxes on the middle class and provide additional help n these specific ways”. But she presented that plan in a very flawed way.
That you were not aware of her actual message is partly your fault and partly her fault.
No, it’s her fault.
It’s not… I was aware of her 82 page economic plan. How come you weren’t aware of it? It’s your fault that you weren’t aware of her economic plan while people like me were aware of it. If I did you then you could have done it.
Informing the electorate of the plans is the job of the candidate.
Harris did inform us of her 82 page economic plan. I wouldn’t have known about her plan otherwise. You just were not paying attention. That is primarily your fault. Although it is partly the media’s fault also.
If a candidate’s campaign doesn’t work, it’s always the candidate’s fault.
Pelosi needs to fade away into the sunset
I mean they lost what 10mil votes? I’m with sanders they need to fix their shit. Get real. They’re going to run Harris again with slightly more left wing policies, Republicans will point out she’s an insincere flip flop and destroy her again. But it will be the DNC not the Republicans that setup the loss.
I frankly think that while Bernie should be right, he’s not. His strategy would have also failed, though I’d rather that have been the attempt.
Simple fact of the matter is that out of 10 major countries with elections this year, all the incumbents lost. Didn’t matter whether they were left or right or whatever, they lost. Democrats were doomed by being the incumbents at a time when just so many are unhappy with how things currently are, and people are eager to change everything for a shot. Between having the pandemic become endemic everywhere, economies struggling to digest the massive COVID stimulus, supply chains still off due to both recovering from shutdowns and war, and just the overall situation in Ukraine and Gaza, there’s a lot for people to want a change of course, and they don’t know specifically how this all could get fixed.
Even if they went all-in on more leftist policies, most voters won’t see beyond the ‘D’ and know ‘D’ is what we had today, therefore ‘R’ must be attached to the answer. A critical mass of the electorate either can not or will not critically consider the respective platforms and instead just decide based on ‘keep the same’ or ‘change course’.
Meanwhile, in political circles, everyone is talking like the specifics and strategies made this huge difference or that huge difference and what it means, when the fact is likely that this result was pretty much a given no matter what.
I hadn’t thought about it in those terms, but this makes a lot of sense. Especially in a 2-party system the election is inevitably going to be a vibe check on the status quo as much as it is a specific election focusing on specific candidates and policies. I’d like to look more closely at the margins to get a feel for whether the Republicans could have run a ham sandwich and still been successful as opposed to the specific appeal of Trumpism.
Not that that changes how rough the next 4 years are going to get for a lot of people.
Cunt… the American unfriendly version.
Pelosi is Democrat leadership. She is responsible for the supreme court running rampant, kamala, and the war on drugs still being a thing. She deserves to be hung as a traitor to the republic. Furious. We are furious at her. I’m angry at my dog for pissing on the couch. I’m furious at Pelosi.
You do know Pelosi stepped down from her leadership position almost exactly 2 years ago, right?
And she’s no longer making decisions for the party, right? …right?!
Certainly not making public statements or anything.
…so what did we just read in the article?
Oh buddy. It’s sarcasm. It’s in the headline.
You mean her formal position as speaker of the house?
What an amazingly condescending tone to turn on your mod flag for. And to be so wrong!
Speaker of the House is different from Minority Leader.
She was removed as Speaker when the House fell to Republican control.
She voluntarily stepped down as minority leader almost exactly 2 years ago, replaced by Hakeem Jeffries.
She’s no longer a leader of the party other than in terms of seniority. Hasn’t been for 2 years.
Calm down with the paragraph breaks
We’re talking about leadership within the democratic party
Not leadership positions in congress
She has no leadership in the party without an official leadership position in the House.
The only thing separating her from any other person in Congress is seniority. She’s #5 in congress behind 2 Republicans and 2 Democrats:
Hal Rogers - R - Kentucky - Dean of the House
Chris Smith - R - New Jersey
Steny Hoyer - D - Maryland
Marcy Kaptur - D - OhioI can’t speak for you, but I know I never heard of Marcy Kaptur before today. Steny Hoyer, definitely.
She has no leadership in the party without an official leadership position in the House.
She has donors and money and client patron relationships with people in power, including the current democratic party leadership in your formulation
I can’t speak for you, but I know I never heard of Marcy Kaptur before today.
Yes that’s correct
If you start hanging people trying to run the government no good people will want to be in the government.
it is a feedback loop for national bloodshed.
No Nancy. You and your DNC are wrong and that is why you lost the presidency, senate, and house.
Fake party.
Pelosi is wrong. But she is not the owner of the DNC. The DNC is controlled by delegates elected by primary voters. The DNC is not a person or monolithic entity.
I am not postmateDumbass and can’t speak for them, but Nacy Pelosi serves as a superdelegate, meaning she wasn’t elected to her position in the DNC. Blaming the voters for her presence there is wrong (however, blaming the voters for electing other selfish, poor-performing delegates would be fair game to me). I would guess their frustration is with the system which created this problem. If the people aren’t being heard year after year the group should be replaced by something that actually fucking works.
This is working just fine. Look at the contributions they got.
Nacy Pelosi serves as a superdelegate, meaning she wasn’t elected to her position in the DNC.
You know who is also a superdelegate? BERNIE SANDERS. Being a superdelegate does not make someone “the DNC” nor make you a member of the DNC executive committee.
I would guess their frustration is with the system which created this problem. If the people aren’t being heard year after year the group should be replaced by something that actually fucking works.
I’m frustrated too. But if you don’t know how the system works you can’t change it. Instead of railing against an invisible boogyman, focus on individual politicians and the media message.
And focus on simple and ideas concepts.
Wealth inequality <-- not nearly enough focus
Identity politics <-- way too much focus.
The DNC is controlled by delegates elected by primary voters.
I’m afraid thats not entirely true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
Also, party leadership constantly changes the rules to suit the election cycle. They are a private entity and can run primaries however they want. In the DNC vs Sanders case, they successfully argued that they can elect canddates in a smoke filled back room if they so chose, and had no legal duty to fairness or in representing the will of the voters whatsoever.
I’m afraid thats not entirely true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate
It is entirely true. No superdelegate can vote in the initial primary vote.
They are a private entity and can run primaries however they want.
Subject to the DNC charter. They are bound by the DNC charter in the same way that the government is bound by the Constitution.
they successfully argued that they can elect canddates in a smoke filled back room if they so chose
They argued they could change the DNC charter, which it technically true. The USA how the power to change its Constituion, but it is still bound by it.
It is entirely true. No superdelegate can vote in the initial primary vote.
they change that rule as needed every election.
Nope. Superdelegates were created in the 1980’s. After 2016 it was changed so that they cannot vote in any first round (making them powerless). Nothing has changed since then. This rule will likely still be in effect for the rest of your life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdelegate https://www.thoughtco.com/what-are-superdelegates-3367439
the rules were changed in 2016 and then again in 2020, and I’d argue 2024 as well They eliminated new hampshire from the primary process altogether in 2024 for that election, which to me sounds like a on the fly rule change, and a complete denial of those citizens vote in the election process. https://apnews.com/article/new-hampshire-democratic-primary-explained-1935530652e371fa3bffdad209ebea82
They also made a bunch of changes before 2016. The party can and does change its nominating process anytime it wants to, and DNC lawyers argued in Sanders vs DNC that they are under no obligation to follow any rules. They can select wheover they want, in a back room if they wanted to. They won that case. They dont even need to follow the rules they state they are following.
So do we call it a rule if it doesnt even need to be followed? its more of a guideline as long as its convenient, isnt it?
DNC lawyers argued in Sanders vs DNC that they are under no obligation to follow any rules.
Nope. The argued they could change their own charter. It’s like the Constitution. The USA can change its own constitution but it sill has the right to follow it.
[From the transcript: “The court would have to basically tell the party that it couldn’t change [the neutrality rule], even though it’s a discretionary rule that it didn’t need to adopt to begin with.” - DNC attorney Bruce Spiva]
Dude your own link contradicts what you said. My quote proved it.
Clearly this loss lies solely on the shoulders of black and Latino voters, as well as the evil Bernie Bros and the progressives.
We just need to go further to the right next election while continuing to raise record dark pac money contributions. Then we can win!
voting machines should not been trusted.
that is the real.
a paper reciept for recount is an easy way to validate these machines. I’m skeptical of fully digital systems as those are harder to validate.
A paper receipt is also a good way to be able to buy someone’s ballot or force them to vote a certain way under threat of violence.
yeah exactly. ohio (who just elected a shitheel used car salesman to Senate) shows you the printout when you vote, but you can’t take it with you
edit: i am in favor of this, basically, though I do not like the outcomes in Ohio the last 8 years or so. the state is fucked
BlueQ.
voting machines should not been trusted.
statement? question? wild random bullshit?
lol. Don’t fuck with Bernie.
Unfortunately his whole political career has been the democrats telling him he’s wrong as they continually shoot themselves in their collective dick.
I, for one, will be writing in his name, voting third party or not at all until they give me a genuinely progressive candidate. Until then, fuck them, and fuck this country.
One of the biggest things about being a leftist is being right about stuff before it’s considered polite.
It’s like being Cassandra, the Greek seer who can see the future but is cursed to forever be not believed.
Unfortunately his whole political career has been the democrats telling him he’s wrong
Nope. Neither Biden nor Harris never once told Bernie he is “wrong”.
Now, imagine this sentiment among thousands of people, across multiple states. That’s how you lose an election.
These people are all whooshing hard on what you said. They can’t even imagine non-scold comments anymore.
It’s okay. We’re all frustrated.
Lmao buddy. Ignoring the people to the left is how you literally just lost an election
That is exactly what they just said.
Sorry, but losing strategies deserve to lose. Im tired of voting for someone because they’re slightly less bought and paid for.
The best reason to vote for Harris was because she was going to raise taxes on billionaires and corporations like Biden did also. Why would you NOT do that?
If two partys are not representing my interests at all, the winning strategy is to make my vote about punishing the one that didnt represent my interests when it was in power. This way it will have to adapt to recognize my interests when it needs my vote to get back to power.
By just always voting whatever party claims to be the less evil for me, all i do is create a race to the bottom of evil, as i make sure that my vote does not need to be fought for.
What is needed is a socialist organization of voters who together have enough voting power to make our break a Democratic representatives career.
progressives are already 8% of voters. We can make or break elections now.
And progressive policies are supported by supermajorities of both democrat and republican voters…. Oh well
Having the numbers isn’t enough, there needs to be organization. A group of 8% of the electorate that votes in lockstep could affect policy pretty fundamentally, more than any amount of money could.
What is needed is a socialist organization of voters who together have enough voting power to make our break a Democratic representatives career.
Yes. But it can be any group of voters. Could be a ‘tea party on the left’.
Aren’t organization and group synonymous?
And of course, this is assuming that Trump isn’t going to establish himself as a dictator. Of course, the thing is Trump is too old to be dictator. And the people around him don’t seem to be the most competent, either. So I sort of don’t know what’s going to happen. In any case, I’m glad that I don’t live in the US, thought authoritarianism is advancing globally.
If Trump is going to establish himself as a dictator, then this kind of group is even more important. Lots of socialist groups have toppled totalitarian leaders, and when they haven’t, it’s usually because of western countries like the US helping the dictator. Of course, it might have to run underground a bit more, but solidarity between various organizations will be extremely important in the upcoming 4 years.
Well, you’re right, but then the group’s tactics would need to be fundamentally different.
Sanders is right, and people are right to be.
