I’m gonna get real with you folks, we’ve had way too many of these posts recently. I’ve been reflecting on this topic a lot the past few days. For me personally, I couldn’t care less about my gender identity. But just because that’s true for me, doesn’t make that true for everyone.
The beauty of the fediverse is that if you don’t like the way a particular instance or community is moderated you can simply choose another to hang out on, or create your own.
Blajah has made it pretty clear by now they will ban anyone who argues against the validity of xenogenders, in order to create a safe space for those folks. That’s fair enough imo.
Safe spaces should be respected, and Blajah’s admins/mods do not deserve abuse for creating and maintaining those spaces.
I can completely understand why Blajah users don’t want to have to constantly argue with external users about the validity of their chosen identities. Bans are one way Blajah has decided to manage that problem so that their users can experience lemmy in relative peace and safety. While it is a blunt tool and I have my reservations about preemptive bans, there are not many other options for @[email protected], other than defederation from most instances. That would be a terrible outcome for the fediverse as a whole.
In order to help Blajah to maintain their safe space, I would like to propose, if @[email protected] agrees and community sentiment is positive:
- that we no longer accept posts about this topic in this community; and
- we also remove previous posts on this topic from the community.
That’s all folks, have at 'er.
Edit: thanks for all your feedback and comments. I think it’s clear that the vast majority of people are fed up with this topic coming up repeatedly.
Summarizing the feedback, I’d say most folks would prefer to retain previous posts for the sake of posterity, and to serve as an example of why we don’t want anymore of these posts. I’m happy to take that on board. For those folks saying I’m a PTB for intervening in this way, I’ll just remind you that I haven’t made any arbitrary mod decisions, and I’ve consulted with db0 and the community as a whole before taking any mod actions.
I think the way to move forward with this is to acknowledge that there’s a bunch of queer and straight people who have a problem with xenogenders. Personally, I think that’s a valid perspective and shouldn’t sanctioned on our instance. But for Blajah, they’ve drawn a line in the sand over this and that’s ok too. Our instance won’t be blocking anyone over their opinions on the topic, especially in this community where free discussion is necessary and encouraged. But safe spaces should be respected.
A lot of folks mentioned I should more more specific about the “no more posts about Blajah’s mod policies” rather than making it a sweeping and overly broad statement. I think that’s good feedback. I will amend this to "No more posts in this community about the validity or otherwise of neopronouns, xenogenders, and bans originating from Blajah about gatekeeping or transphobia. This is in recognition of Blajah’s safe space policy. You are of course free to discuss those topics outside of this community.
Note that this decision isn’t about ideological gatekeeping, its about reducing the workload for our own mods and admins in trying to moderate this community, and to avoid iterating over the same old topics again and again.
Blajah isn’t getting a “free pass” over YPTB posts - if you feel they are power tripping over other issues then feel free to make a post here. But if it’s a post questioning the validity of xenogenders or about Blajah bans for gatekeeping then that will no longer be allowed here. Those folks deserve a safe space on Lemmy, even if it’s not a mainstream opinion.
For those folks who feel aggrieved about being accused of “transphobia” or “gatekeeping” over their views on this topic, I completely understand just how hurtful it can be to be unfairly (imo) accused in this way. I’ve been in the same position, and I also found it difficult to deal with. I want those folks to know that our instance does not require you to support xenogenders in order to participate in our instance. However we do require that you use preferred pronouns whenever they are specified. That’s been a longstanding instance policy on dbzer0.
Thank everyone for your feedback.
I’m OK with that but it has to be a bit more targeted specifically to blahaj’s rule about gatekeeping and neopronouns, and I would add everything drag of course.
I wouldn’t delete old posts, just lock them.
Maybe make it a temporary moratorium?
agree. seeing that the trolls the posters here are crying about have been banneed for weeks to months, a temporary moratorium is probably fine. maybe six months but im pulling that number from nowhere.EDIT: I have changed my mind about this. See https://lemmy.cafe/comment/10132150 and the preceding thread.
Why do you need to delete old posts?
Where can users banned by blahaj admins for lurking in other communities report it? Especially because the lahaj admins ban so many people for gatekeeping despite them not gatekeeping.
There’s a theme here of covering up dissent instead of engaging.
Blahaj admins started this whole ordeal in december for banning dissent and losing dozens of users instead of engaging with their community.
PTB
THANK YOU
I’d want the old posts kept for historical reference, but otherwise I’m fine with this.
I have a related question:
Where do the users who get banned from YPTB go, when they eventually get banned from YPTB?
believe it or not, straight to jail.
Double-hell
I think it would be funny if there was a rule that the only way to get banned from YPTB was by coming in and saying “well, it’s the moderators’ community, so they can really do anything they want and you’re wrong for disagreeing with them in any way.” And then that person could get banned with reason “Okey dokey then.”
I don’t think it’s actually a good idea. Freedom to say whatever in YPTB, even if you’re being kind of obnoxious about it, seems important, and imitating bad behavior to make a point is still bad behavior. I just think it would be funny.
Back in the day, Dragon Rider actually got banned from YPTB for starting too much drama, as db0 put it.
Didn’t seem to work.
There is a mod hot allert community…
On fedi there is always a place to go. Start your own community on a obscure server !
That’s how decentralization works… Vote with your feet.
Isolationist communities will lose on the long run anyway.
Hello. I am the new moderator of the mod hot allert community. Things are going to change.
To all the blahaj stans:
The place does have that Zionist vibe tbh
💯
lol that telling you to take it elsewhere is “making you believe absurities”
no one has to believe shit we just have to not be assholes about it
we just have to not be assholes about it
Unfortunately that’s not possible for the people who are whining and complaining about blahaj here. They’re incapable of not being assholes which is why they got banned in the first place.
Blahaj is groupthink land where queers who don’t play the groupthink game are banned
I am genuinely concerned for your well-being and your grasp on reality. Do you even realize what you’re defending? Do you think everyone who points to observable evidence contrary to your comforting preconceived notions is just evil? I’m seriously concerned about your bubble and I am worried about the toll it will take on you and your personal relationships. You demonize me over imploring you to think critically about the information you surround yourself in. You don’t seem to consider that you and your affiliations are fallible, and you’re going to experience a lot of difficulties in life if you carry on assuming that if you do something or you associate with something, then it can’t be wrong. I don’t wish harm on you, but you sure do spit a lot of venom at me for wanting you to be present in reality and to embrace empathy.
The irony is, your comment can be uno reversed right back at you.
No. You can’t just say things that are convenient for you to believe and by doing so make them true. That delusion is the foundation of the row, specifically the notion on blahaj that magic incantations can make fictional creatures real. I’m not a bad person for telling you that Pegasus and Pikachu and Popeye aren’t real and can’t be real, and one would be willfully daft and willfully destructive to defend the dogma that says otherwise.
Squorlples aren’t real, you should stop using that name as you can’t magically make them real. You should instead go by “human”.
You seem to struggle with differentiating between the material and the abstract. If somebody pisses on your leg and tells you it’s raining, it’s actually piss, not rain.
lol that telling you to take it elsewhere is “making you believe absurities”
Yeah, elsewhere, somewhere outside of Blahaj, like maybe dbzer0!
yeah dude :) welcome to the concept of discussion :) i’ve been here the whole time lol
go ahead and talk about trans identities here. get it all out. lol. i literally can’t nor won’t stop you. did you think i was trying to shut you up?
yeah dude :) welcome to the concept of discussion :) i’ve been here the whole time lol
Yep, you sure were standing around the thread where you and your friends harassed a trans user out of the Fediverse for wrongthink. Great discussion!
girl wtf is you talking about XD
girl wtf is you talking about XD
https://lemmy.world/post/26286098
And as I pointed out in that very thread
“Ha ha just kidding” is up there with “Um, despite seven previous comments demonstrating understanding of the argument, suddenly I don’t understand???” for the most common bullshit you trot out.
Fucking predictable.
idk[i know what you linked but am ignoring it for humorous effect] because it proves nothing and is meaningless to your point. but the onus of proving i bullied anyone is on you :/ liar liar pants on fire till you prove iti don’t bully people, it is against my moral code and also the rules of this community
Ah yes, no one has to believe anything in particular but all dissidence will be silenced
user discovers the concept of a safe space
A “safe space” that prioritizes bullshit identities over actual queers
Ah yes, the safe space that famously attacks and harms members of the demographic for whom it specifically says it is safe. It’s also not a safe space if you’re just plugging your ears to reality and pretending unicorns are real; that’s called an echo chamber and a cult.
Safe space without borders - the safe space that extends everywhere its users can reach.
The fact that we can all see your comments suggests that the safe space has borders.
Not for lack of trying.
You got it backwards, being against blahaj and what it stands for is culture war bullshit.
Sorry I identify as an attack helicopter now because that’s what blahaj prioritizes. Bullshit identities and ideologies that make a mockery of actual queer people. As a safe space!
Can y’all leave the attack helicopter bullshit in 2016 where it belongs.
What’s the difference between a dragon or a dog or a cat or whatever fucking non human entity and an attack helicopter? Thanks for making my point. These people are trolls actively harming queer people with their bullshit and are given a safe space out of “tolerance” while actual queer people are banned for not giving into that bullshit.
I think people should be able to live their lives however they want. I find “identifying” as an animal/vehicle/non-human entity a bit weird, but ultimitely, people should be able to do what they want.
The main problem is that arguments like that are usually used to invalidate people who don’t conform to binary genders. “People identifying as neither male or female? Where does it stop? Why can’t I identify as a a dog or cat?”
I don’t think that they should be considered queer, as animals and stuff have nothing to do with gender.
People can do whatever the hell they want and receive pushback for it. They’re not special and they’re actively harming queer people with their fantasy bullshit.
I think that since they aren’t harming anyone, they shouldn’t get pushback. When they go into the wrong spaces, they should get pushback, but that is dangerously close to gatekeeping
The instance stands for clearly, directly, and repeatedly insisting upon the notion that fictional entities are real, and demonizing and falsely accusing those who point out that fictional entities are fictional. That is the absurdity. What an asinine and self-important thing for you to say that totally tracks with everything we’ve seen so far.
I agree in at least a memorandum or a break on this so everyone, myself included, can outside and breathe from air. Play games they enjoy. Read a good book. Listen to music.
Taking a break from the keyboard helps me when I’m upset about online stuff that doesn’t impact the real world.
Mad love for the user name, btw :)
Thank you!
As a blahaj’r, I would deeply appreciate this.
i started banned by blahaj to resolve this issue i hope you appreciate it
Hey dick why did you remove my post?
you broke rule 1 and failed to resolve it i will restore your post if you resolve the transgression
edit for context this exchange is in reference to a post on [email protected] not banned by blahaj
I agree, this community should be a place to discuss mod abuse, not bellyache over transphobia and hate speech being censored or being banned from it. Such discourse makes this community extremely toxic and unusable to vulnerable groups, it also creates inherent bias here favoring alt-right shitheads.
I think @[email protected] would very much agree with this decision as well.
It’s “bellyaching” over dissent from other queers
Ada is in favor of banning dissent
not bellyache over transphobia and hate speech being censored or being banned from it
Literally the comment you wrote immediately before this one involved you deriding bad faith arguments.
I agree, this community should be a place to discuss mod abuse, not bellyache over transphobia and hate speech being censored or being banned from it. Such discourse makes this community extremely toxic and unusable to vulnerable groups, it also creates inherent bias here favoring alt-right shitheads.
“It’s not mod abuse if I think they had it coming for Wrongthink, and even discussing the possibility should be banned.”
“It’s not mod abuse if I think they had it coming for Wrongthink, and even discussing the possibility should be banned.”
“I’m just going to ignore every point he makes and make up some worthless garbage about banning by disagreement because I can’t address Draconic’s actual points”
“I’m just going to ignore every point he makes and make up some worthless garbage about banning by disagreement because I can’t address Draconic’s actual points”
The issue brought up by these threads is whether moderator action was justified or not; whereas you are saying the very topic is verboten and makes this place “toxic” and “unusable” as you harass marginalized folk who commit the crime of disagreeing with you. The point you’re making is in favor of a topic ban on YPTB. Hence “and even discussing the possibility should be banned.” I’m sorry that you don’t understand what you yourself are advocating for.
You got your answer long ago. You Deserved It, They Deserved it. You and them are indeed gatekeeping other people’s identities and accusing them of being evil for identifying that way. Also for the record calling people out for gatekeeping and hostility is not “harassing minorities” people don’t get a free pass because they’re trans sweetie, if they’re gatekeeping assholes they get called out. Whether they scream bigotry afterwards or not is their choice but when they chose to falsely scream bigotry it says more about them than the person calling them out, and ironically puts them in that bad situation of being harmful since crying wolf about transphobia ends up being more harmful than helpful.
You got your answer long ago. You Deserved It, They Deserved it.
Yes, I know you think they deserved to be harassed by you and your pals, but generally in this comm the question is about moderator action.
You and them are indeed gatekeeping other people’s identities and accusing them of being evil for identifying that way.
Fucking what.
Also for the record calling people out for gatekeeping and hostility is not “harassing minorities” people don’t get a free pass because they’re trans sweetie, if they’re gatekeeping assholes they get called out. Whether they scream bigotry afterwards or not is their choice but when they chose to falsely scream bigotry it says more about them than the person calling them out, and ironically puts them in that bad situation of being harmful since crying wolf about transphobia ends up being more harmful than helpful.
God, that’s some painful fucking irony, to say that with no self-awareness. Bravo.
You’re being obtuse and I hope when things cool down you’re able to see the harm this behavior is causing in this specific circumstance and also more generally. I understand that you probably have good intentions but I think you’re either very misguided, trolling, reacting without thinking through the impact of your behavior, or some combination of these things, and I do feel like the ban was warranted especially considering the fit you’re throwing. I have respect for the involvement you have in sustaining and contributing platform and the effort you clearly put into it, and I have seen you say things I really agreed with, but this is too much for me. This is not how you encourage left unity and safe and sustainable practices that support as many people as possible. I know you know about the paradox of tolerance.
You’re being obtuse and I hope when things cool down you’re able to see the harm this behavior is causing in this specific circumstance and also more generally.
A trans user was just harassed off the Fediverse by these people, man. Is that harm invisible? I’m bitching about people doing that. That’s harmful?
I understand that you probably have good intentions but I think you’re either very misguided, trolling, reacting without thinking through the impact of your behavior, or some combination of these things, and I do feel like the ban was warranted especially considering the fit you’re throwing.
My ban’s not the issue, here. When it was locked the other day, I was content to let that be it. The ban was a minor thing; annoying and shitty, but ultimately not meaning much considering that, as mentioned in the OP, I didn’t even use Blahaj anymore.
If you think my ban was warranted, that’s fine. But “We shouldn’t discuss Blahaj anymore”, as in the comment I was replying to, is not.
I know you know about the paradox of tolerance.
Sure. You tolerate Nazis, they’ll take over and won’t tolerate you.
Where are the Nazis, here?
Because it looks to me an awful lot like infinite purity tests inflicted even on users outside of the Blahaj instance, combined with sustained harassment; neither of which encourage left unity or safe and sustainable practices that support as many people as possible.
Where are the Nazis, here?
Luckily I don’t see many here (Lemmy), and if I do I am prepared to confront them in whatever way is required. Please point me in their direction if you know of any. I hope you’re not calling the people who are upset by this situation Nazis, because I haven’t seen any behavior that would warrant that and it would be very alarming and disappointing if that was happening here in a digital space I have come to feel safer in than most others, and would warrant an evaluation of what I am doing here, and I hope that I haven’t been spending my time reaching out and talking to and just associating with people who hold those beliefs.
A trans user was just harassed off the Fediverse by these people
I saw some of the comments that person was making. If they have to go somewhere else to learn how to respect spaces specifically curated by and for trans people that’s fine with me, I didn’t get the feeling they (or for that matter, you) were willing or able to do so at this point, at least in this specific case in the way that was asked.
And please don’t throw in my face again their (or for that matter, your own) marginalized status, it feels to me like it’s being used as some kind of gotcha or get out of jail free card, and that is disrespectful as much as most anything that I’ve seen* has happened in this thread.
I am hoping that by adding my perspective others might feel supported or safer here, and others yet will hopefully see that horizontal harm is a thing that we have to be aware of and identify and do the work to minimize, internally and externally (referring to both the harm and the work).
I’m bitching about people doing that.
I am not talking directly to anyone but you, and here, you are talking to me, please keep that in mind. It’s fine to complain and always good to speak out against harm coming unwarranted or unfairly to others, but I’m talking to you about your behavior.
Please feel free to reach out for further 1:1 discussion, or not if you do not want to. It’s about time we end the the perpetuation of harm in online and physical spaces and in the systems that we live under. Please also feel free to reach out for support with other efforts towards that goal or other similar ones.
Edited to add language to clarify a bit, if others feel like I’m wrong in my assessments and what I’ve said I am open to feedback, I’m not trying to deny anyone’s experience or minimize harm that has come to others. My goal is always to prevent and reduce harm and if I’m not doing that I would hope someone here would call me in.
Luckily I don’t see many here (Lemmy), and if I do I am prepared to confront them in whatever way is required.
In this comparison, where are the Nazis, here?
Where is the threat which, if tolerated, will oppress everyone else?
Please, enlighten me.
And please don’t throw in my face again their (or for that matter, your own) marginalized status, it feels to me like it’s being used as some kind of gotcha or get out of jail free card, and that is disrespectful as much as most anything that has happened in this thread.
Considering that this is all to the drumbeat of “We MUST protect marginalized people!”, it’s kind of fucking relevant.
I am not talking directly to anyone but you, and here, you are talking to me, please keep that in mind. It’s fine to complain and always good to speak out against harm coming unwarranted or unfairly to others, but I’m talking to you about your behavior.
My behavior being complaining something you don’t feel should be complained about, because you feel silence and complicity serves the LGBT community on Lemmy more than airing out the dirty laundry?
Where is the threat which, if tolerated, will oppress everyone else?
The current US admin and other actual Nazis.
where are the Nazis, here?
I told you I don’t see any, here in this thread, and rarely if ever on Lemmy as a whole would I describe the behavior of others as “Nazi” or as you put it “Where is the threat which, if tolerated, will oppress everyone else?”, which is apparently what you think Nazi means?
Please, enlighten me.
Please enlighten me as to where I said there were any here. As I recall that was you, still waiting for that link.
My behavior being complaining something you don’t feel should be complained about
I did not and would not say that.
because you feel silence and complicity serves the LGBT community on Lemmy more than airing out the dirty laundry?
Yeah, that’s clearly consistent with my behavior and what I say here and elsewhere 🙄 fuck off troll
They’re just wanting you to call them a Nazi so it can be screenshotted and posted as proof of something elsewhere.
You seem like the kinda guy who says calling Nazis Nazis devalues the word Nazi.
… because I summarized someone else’s position accurately?
at this point it’s all just going in circles
Doesn’t one of the db0 mod team literally think xenogenders are trolling? He’s probably just going to override you and say those posts are allowed.
I think people should be allowed to complain about any mod, on any community, on any instance.
Otherwise, it shows a pretty clear favoritism.
I don’t come here for fruitless arguments regarding lemmy.ml or blahaj.zone moderation, but that is the cost of open discussion. If people want to fight each other, who are we to prevent them?
That’s just it, though. The blahaj people don’t want to fight about this, that’s literally the entire point of the rule. This is about other people coming into their spaces, starting fights, getting banned for rules that are very clear and then pitching a shit fit about it.
I don’t complain when I get booted from lemmy.ml communities for breaking a clear rule because I went to their place and fucked around. It would literally be a waste of everyone’s time for me to complain about.
The rule about pronouns is pretty cut and dried. You can either respect them, or you can not engage with the people who you think are trolling at all, which to be clear, is incredibly fucking easy to do. No one is forcing these people to make comments like that in those communities. That’s a personal choice.
Once again, if you show up on blahaj and start fucking around with pretty clearly defined rules, only one side is fighting, the other side is just banning them for breaking clear rules. That’s not a fight, that’s enforcing the rules they’ve laid out.
This is about other people coming into their spaces, starting fights, getting banned for rules that are very clear and then pitching a shit fit about it.
I don’t complain when I get booted from lemmy.ml communities for breaking a clear rule because I went to their place and fucked around. It would literally be a waste of everyone’s time for me to complain about.
Once again, if you show up on blahaj and start fucking around with pretty clearly defined rules, only one side is fighting, the other side is just banning them for breaking clear rules. That’s not a fight, that’s enforcing the rules they’ve laid out.
Holy fucking shit man, both of the recent Blahaj posts were done to users who were not posting in Blahaj. They were posting here, on dbzer0, and for that matter in this very comm.
This community is on lemmy.dbzer0.com
I’m talking about people containing their fights over moderation topics to this community, not going into another community and trying to start fights there.
They should be able to complain about any mod, any community, or any instance here
“Do not confront the people doing bad things” is a very shitty advice.
I think there are far worse and far bigger things for folks to be worried about in real life than getting their fucking panties in a twist because trans people want to be left alone.
If you really think banning people for not being able to respect pronouns is a “bad thing” my dude you gotta get a fuckin grip on reality. Seriously touch some fucking grass and realize there’s actual real life shit that’s actually bad.
“Do not confront the people doing minor bad things, we should let those slide because there are worse things out there” is a slightly shitty advice too though.
Once again, if you think that’s a bad thing: touch fucking grass dude.
I’m going to give you the benefit of a doubt and consider this last reply as not intentionally endorsing doing slightly bad things to people, because that would be bullying and we’re not here to bully people, far as I know.
If you think an instance with barely 9000 users has some control over the world that a handful of them being shitty online (in your opinion) means that you “must confront the bad thing” you’re off your rocker. Trans people are a sliver of the human community and they’re a sliver of the Lemmy community. They have no real power except that of their own instance. Why is that a bad thing? Explain it to me, please. That’s what I mean by “touch grass.” You are ascribing ill intent to people who traditionally have no power in society simply because they finally have a place where they have instituted their own rules.
Do you confront cops for doing bad things? Because I think they actually have power in society maybe you should focus on groups like that instead of pissing away your time on tiny communities who mostly keep to themselves to begin with. Or do you only confront groups you know don’t have power over you, like the trans community? Because you’re too much of a pussy to confront a cop for doing bad things? Easier to pick a fight with someone small?
It’s not about pronouns. It’s that they lose their fucking minds over any kind of pushback at all. They/them/their is gender neutral and does not negate someone’s gender. Neopronouns are a joke in the real world. Species dysphoria? Get fucking mental health help. You’re a human not a cat.
In the real world this kind of fantasy bullshit that blahaj promotes actively harms queer people.
And then in the context of current events - America is right now starting a genocide against us and this is what the community thinks is important? Fucking pronouns?!
Trans people are being genocided. They deserve a safe space to be themselves. You don’t need to bring that Republican nonsense into their communities. Now isn’t the time to be transphobic.
QUEER people are being genocided. I am a queer person. Fuck off.
Equating not taking fantasy nonsense seriously and being actively against it because it is transphobic trolling with the very real existence of trans people and then equating it to “republican” and “tRaNsPhObIc” is fucking rich.
THEY are tRaNsPhObIc. Fantasy identities and neopronouns are not real and are actively harmful to the very real queer community.
Mmmmm, nah. They’re not hurting you, but you’re hurting them. Just ignore them.
Do not confront the people doing bad things
That’s not the rule. The rule is don’t misgender them.
If you can’t use their pronouns or otherwise interact with them without invalidating their identity, then, you aren’t to interact with them.
As I’ve said in other posts I’m happy to use gender neutral pronouns, particularly as a default option, but I’m not doing the neopronoun thing, that’s just silly.
You don’t get to arbitrarily decide how language works.
You don’t get to arbitrarily decide how language works.
Fucking BINGO
Wait, you’re arbitrarily deciding how language works.
The fact that neopronouns are new don’t make them any *morez arbitrary than existing words.
Language evolves and shifts, even when there’s a governing body of formal language like French has.
Ever heard the phrase “to coin a phrase”? It’s literally a phrase that was coined about making up a new phrase being similar to making a new coin in a mint.
Brobdingnagian may be an obscure word, but it’s in dictionaries. It was totally made up by people in response to the writings of Gulliver’s Travels.
Ever get ghosted? Or butt dial someone? Or call someone on a telephone at all? Because the telephone was an invention, named arbitrarily. Someone decided to name the invention that, and it was arbitrary, based in root words from old languages, not even english. Then people just shrugged and went with it.
Mind you, I tend to not have the capacity for neopronouns that aren’t fairly standardized. Once it’s something uncommon, I’m too old to remember it without a lot of effort that I’m rarely going to make for a stranger. I’ll just not talk to them rather than deal with it, but it’s still my problem, not theirs.
But arguing that it isn’t valid because it’s arbitrary is just silly.
Nobody has ever demanded I say those things the way Blahaj does.
Malarkey.
Nobody is chasing people around trying to make them say things.
The only time they’re demanding you use their pronouns is when you’re talking to them. And if you aren’t, then maybe the problem isn’t their pronouns, since there’s a lovely block function if you don’t want to just walk away.
You know that’s an option, right? To just walk away. It’s even easy to do. Easier than trying to argue about how language works when you don’t really understand it yourself. Easier than making a false claim.
Also, you are aware that blahaj is an instance, right? It doesn’t have some monolithic spiritual entity that makes demands. It’s not an individual person. So, trying to claim “blahaj” demanded anything is just silly.
If you can’t use their pronouns or otherwise interact with them without invalidating their identity, then, you aren’t to interact with them.
Who was I interacting with, Ada? :)
happy to chip in. it was right here that you verbally invalidated someone’s identity and expressed clear intent to invalidate other identities in the future. edit i misunderstood and Pug wanted the most recent occurrence. see below for details and that occurence.
content warning
Was that what I was banned for? Because it seems to me that I was banned just the other day, not 2 months ago.
Thank you for also confirming that acknowledging reality is against your moral code.
ah! it was not clear you meant the most recent instance. still happy to chip in! i t was right here that you verbally invalidated someone’s identity and expressed clear intent to invalidate other identities in the future.
Sounds like a Truman Show glass house, considering the federation.
Well, whatever, it’s your playground.
Dbzero is not their space and they don’t get to police other people’s conceptions of them.
Blahaj admins started this whole ordeal in december for banning dissent and losing dozens of users instead of engaging with their community.
I thought the people saying neopronouns are trolling, when it was already against the rules, started the drama.
I don’t come here for fruitless arguments
Well I did. And I want all of them.
Fruit salad for all!
- Leave the threads up, probably locked. Don’t erase history.
- I wouldn’t start on wholesale topic bans just yet. This should be an absolute last resort and this will probably do more harm than good.
- Possibly create some extra categories for titles so users can filter it out if they don’t want to hear about it. Instance name of the potential PTB? Not sure.
My suggestion for this topic right now is to get everyone together that needs to and talk/scream/yell about it in private. I think everything has been said publicly at this point and the reading comprehension has gone down the toilet. The amount of misunderstandings, blanket downvotes, pettiness, bad assumptions, baiting and finger pointing is getting ridiculous. Have your damn say and find a conclusion, even if said conclusion is ‘fuck you’ from each person.
For shit like this in the future? If it comes to it, it is far better to lock first, talk to the person, and then unlock it. We can tell each other all day to be an adult, but it isn’t that simple. There will always be some big event that floods the community at some point or another. This community practically begs for it. It will eventually be filed into PTB history.
I’m completely in favor of this.
Frankly, most of what I see on this comm is BPR and YDI, and most people could probably benefit from taking their bans and touching grass. But having some posts be YDI makes the PTB’s more exciting so maybe i’m wrong.
Maybe we should make some penalty for earning a YDI or BPR, so that people who receive them aren’t encouraged to re-hash the same conflicts over and over? I’m honestly not sure. Part of the problem is that the same people cross-post the same conflict on similar comms, which makes it feel as if the same issue is being litigated repeatedly.
But complaining about receiving a ban from a protective community with strict conduct policies is certainly not the intent of this community, i don’t think.
But complaining about receiving a ban from a protective community with strict conduct policies is certainly not the intent of this community, i don’t think.
Is that all it takes to be immune from PTB status? Being a ‘protective’ community, but only towards the ‘right’ people who think in the ‘right’ way?
Boy you sure are pissed you got blocked before getting to say a slur.
Boy you sure are pissed you got blocked before getting to say a slur.
what
Maybe it is? Don’t non-binary people have a right to moderate their own space as they like?
If they have a rule against gatekeeping gender identities and pronouns in their own instance, don’t they have a right to remove offenders from their servers?
You’re all over this topic today, maybe just take a second and listen to what the community is saying. You’ve more than said your piece.
And what about queer people who don’t play the pronoun police power tripping game? We should just go fuck ourselves I guess
No, you should find a community that’s a better fit for you
Oh, the irony.
Social Media has destroyed people’s sense of nuance and irony.
Maybe it is? Don’t non-binary people have a right to moderate their own space as they like?
Is there a group out there that doesn’t have the right to moderate their own space ‘as they like’?
If they have a rule against gatekeeping gender identities and pronouns in their own instance, don’t they have a right to remove offenders from their servers?
“They have the right” and “It is always the correct call” are two entirely different concepts.
You’re all over this topic today, maybe just take a second and listen to what the community is saying. You’ve more than said your piece.
Yeah, well maybe I’m fucking pissed that I just watched a user get harassed out of the Fediverse because Blahaj wants to play harassment games on other people’s instances, and that I’m the one who had to fucking bring it up to be discussed. Maybe I don’t like the idea that if I stayed quiet this all would’ve been swept under the rug.
Jesus
I haven’t a clue what event you’re referring to even though I feel as though I’ve encountered nothing but your comments today. If your goal is to discuss a specific abuse then you’ve done a piss poor job of it.
I’d recommend reaching out to @[email protected] if you think there’s been that severe of an abuse that’s happened, and the community mod hasn’t addressed it well enough.
Honestly, though, it just seems like you have an axe to grind and you’re taking it out on everyone else. Either settle it with the admins or cool off a bit, you’re souring the space for everyone by flaming out like this.
I haven’t a clue what event you’re referring to even though I feel as though I’ve encountered nothing but your comments today.
I’ve summarized the events in this thread alone at least twice.
My opinions on xenogender aside, the fact that Blahaj defenders, in this very comm, harassed a trans user into leaving the Fediverse has me fuming, and rightfully so in my opinion. And they play it off as “[The harassed user] deserved it.” even now. That is pretty core to the anger I feel right now.
Uh, considering recent events, where Blahaj defenders dogpiled a trans person on another instance for disagreeing with them, you sure about that
Most of my comments have been refutations to specific arguments put forth in the context of those events.
Do you have something more specific than your (purely objective) recounting of what happened? A link to it?
At the moment, I’m not sure I’d trust you if you told me the sky was blue
https://lemmy.world/post/26286098
It’s one of the most recent threads on this comm.
What user was it?
Don’t non-binary people have a right to moderate their own space as they like?
Sure, though it seems as if their right extends to not being satirized in other communities for being power-tripping bastards. Don’t they have a right to not be criticized for stifling any discussion and banning people based on vibes and posting history, using thought-terminating cliches in place of arguments? Well, it seems they do.
I stopped visiting this instance because the transphobic screeds became too much for me. Someone who doesn’t ‘get’ half of young trans people but just feels being nice to people exploring themselves or ignoring them if they’re too much is easier.
Removed by mod
I kinda feel you on this.
I only turned-up in the fediverse because my phone, the Voyager app and Lemmy looks suspiciously like how my phone, the Apollo app and… some other aggregator site I used to visit looked. (Robbit, or something. Can’t remember all the details)
Anyway, having a browse, looking around. Happy happy. Saw /196 and checked it out - I knew the “content” and “the rule” from the other place. Just like old.
Got to understand the difference between community and instance. Had a look around Blahaj… eye-opening. I felt the place out and discovered that it was, in fact, what it appeared to be. Doubly eye-opening.
If Blahaj was a pub, run by Ada, and I was the doorman I wouldn’t even let me in; let alone drink at the bar.
So I wound my neck in.
Plenty of other instances to go bump my gums on - if I’m so inclined.
Just let it slide, folks… their place, their rules.
P.S. The sum of human time wasted on these few words, again and again, reheated and reserved, again and again. I mean, really? We’re at the peak of technological advancement and saturation whilst possibly on the cusp of a dystopian cataclysm and we are all - me included - wasting our time churning over the same old nonsense.
Well, I’m livin’ in a foreign country but I’m bound to cross the line
Beauty walks a razor’s edge, someday I’ll make it mine
If I could only turn back the clock to when God and her were born
Come in, she said, I’ll give ya
Shelter from the storm
- Bob Dylan
