Or a mentally troubled patient. Or a black patient. Or a woman.
If you say so
Yeah. I’ve a friend who kept getting dismissed by the doctors when they came with worries about their heart, because they were diagnosed with generalised anxiety. Apparently if you’re living with anxiety you’re also immune to heart problems!
Doesn’t help that someone close to them died because of late medical intervention, which only happened because the person’s partner insisted that they fake a fainting episode as the medical system had repeatedly dismissed them when previously asking for help with their problem. Everything was fine and dandy until they didn’t pass out, then oops, too late to treat the cancer, have a nice rest of your life.
Can’t even blame individual doctors though, I think it has a lot to do with understaffing and overworking. The people who matter aren’t cared for and thus can’t properly care for the people they are obliged to care for. It all serves the bottom line of the elite because they can pocket more money.
I’ve had almost exclusively military doctors for nearly two decades, and I can tell you they aren’t trying to respect your feelings (not that they’re dicks). If your tests come back with high cholesterol, they aren’t jumping to Lipitor or some shit, they’ll refer you to a nutritionist and tell you to exercise more. They have no problems telling you that your health troubles come from that weight crushing your organs and joints.
And that’s as a person in the military, who has to maintain a certain level if fitness to keep my job.
What harm is the doctor doing to fat people in your opinion?
Isn’t it well-known that doctors frequently dismiss health concerns with “have you tried losing weight?”
When you look at how strongly obesity correlates with everything from back- and knee pains to weakened immune response to sleep issues and cardiovascular disease…
When a severely obese person has any of the above, it’s reasonable, scientifically backed diagnosis/prescription to say “these issues will probably go away by themselves if you lose weight”. This is about treating the cause and not the symptoms: When severely obese people are heavily over-represented among those with a certain disease or problem, you can try treating the symptoms, but should expect that they return rather quickly.
Of course, there are cases where the issues come from something else, but no matter who goes to the doctor with health issues, their first response will be to try to treat the post probable cause.
This isn’t always true though, so obese people end up not receiving the care they should, because their dr couldn’t or wouldn’t see past their weight.
While I have no doubt there are doctors like that, they are the exception.
Every profession has it’s idiots…
First I’m ever hearing about it.
Weight gain can turn a small thing into a bigger thing. A outpatient procedure is more likely to turn inpatient if the patient is over 300lbs.
Because in many cases, the weight is the problem.
Being obese has so many related sicknesses. From having sleeping problems to back pain to knee pain to more serious stuff like cardiac arrests - being fat brings so many health problems.
People love to claim that doctors don’t take fat patients seriously and complain when they tell them to loose weight.
In the Fediverse there are also some Nutjobs who will claim that being morbidly obese isn’t unhealthy and that those doctors just don’t have a clue if they think it is unhealthy
#loose
Fat people can lose weight. Loose people… are more fun I presume.
Look, the doctor just said I needed exercise, but didn’t say it had to be boring.
There is a fat acceptance movement that says you can’t control your wight, and also the only healthy way to eat is to eat whatever you want whenever you want, and if doctors want to weigh their patients or inform them of the health risks of being overweight or not do operations where excess fat would create complications, the only possible explanation for any of that is fatphobia.
That’s not what that is.
Its more just not going out of your way to be an asshole to fat people.
No theres absolutely people who believe that shit. Same as people who believe that Trump has all the answers, Jews are the problem and flat earth. The “fat acceptance”, “body shaming” and “body positivity” movements have legitimate positive roots but have also been co-opted by people who just want their bullshit view to be right.
Take “Healthy at every size” for example. You can have excellent cardiovascular fitness, great bloodwork and your weight isnt the cause of any health maladies but at some point at a certain body fat/muscle ratio (too high or low) is going to start to reduce the probablility of that being the case and people use these edge cases to justify their opinion. Look at Eddie Hall “worlds strongest man” he weighs 355lbs and over 6 foot tall, I havent seen his bloodwork but people will hold him up as an example that you can weigh 350+ but I also bet he doesnt need a scooter to get around wallmart.
There isnt an ideology or behavior on earth that cant be taken to a toxic place.
Judging the body postivity movement (which is about much more than just fat people btw) by the vocal “extemist” people is like judging vegans/vegetarians by the evangelical ones.
If you re-read the comment that you replied to first that there is a community of people who believe absolute bullshit which you deny in your reply to their comment but then admit they do in mine by refering to them as “extremists”
Doctors not taking health complaints of people who are carrying an excess of adipose tissue is a real thing, but so are people who refuse to accept that their weight is the root cause of many of their issues and do body positivity a disservice when they do
I don’t deny that those people exist, its just unfair to paint everyone in the movement as those people.
Denying care until an arbitrary amount of weight is lost.
Maybe there’s sound science behind it, such as the procedures not having been tested on larger patients (if that’s the case why don’t they just say), but mostly it just looks like a waiting list hack.
Risk/benefit ratio.
The benefit is X the risk is Y, but the risk increases with excess weight, at some point Y exceeds X. Once the risk exceeds the benefit, it no-longer makes sense to perform the procedure.
From the patient point of view, the likelihood of a bad outcome is above the likelihood of a good outcome. They would be worse off getting the procedure; but likely they are only considering the good outcome and wishing away any bad outcome.
From the doctors point of view, they are considering both outcomes and trying to communicate to the patient that it’s not a good option for them. There is also the opportunity cost to consider, they could be helping someone else that is more likely to have a good outcome.
This. And I suspect what they’re taking about isn’t common except in very specific cases, like transplants.
If there’s a compatible kidney doner available, and it’s a choice between an obese and a non-obese adult, they’re going to give it to the person more likely to survive and make longer use of the donation, and all other things being equal that’s the non-obese person. OP will categorize this as “denying care,” but it’s really a question of saving the person who isn’t likely to die anyway from comorbidities.
Or lgbtq
quality rage bait 👏👏👏
I’m not rage baiting, its a shitpost, in the community for shitposts.
You sound distressed, you should lose some weight.
Also if they’re dentists (suddenly teeth become “bones to smile with”).
You’re going to need a root canal, not because its the best procedure for the job, but because its more expensive.
I had a dentist give me an unnecessary root canal when a filling broke and they didn’t even do it right. I’m still pretty salty about it. I’ll always get a second opinion moving forward.
Sooo what are the consequences of not getting it done right? I had one done recently and I am worried.
Red aggro nailed it. There’s a gap at the gum line between my remaining tooth and the crown, leaving exposed dentin.
Depends on how it “wasn’t done right”. If they didn’t clean it out properly and there’s still decay? Losing that tooth when it hurts again. Gap in the cement for the crown? New crown. And so on.
Do y’all not have separate endodontists that do root canals only? That’s the norm here that dentists refer out for specialty work like oral surgery and root canals.
Yes but you need the referral. The dentist I go to is a chain of sorts and endo travels so like you have to wait for when he’s gonna be in your area. Most people can’t or won’t wait or can’t pay and end up getting other shit done as a stop gap.
We do, but I didn’t even know they existed before this incident. I’ve luckily had few dental issues.
I did notice my dentist’s office is decorated with various posters and such that say “smile” and none of them say “chew”
I can’t blame doctors for letting obesity color their opinion. Look around your doctor’s waiting room. Everyone is fat. Imagine the suffering and illness they see daily due to fat. How can those observations not color their general attitude?
Everyone is fat
Exactly, which points squarely at an environmental cause, not at individual sloth/gluttony or some shit like that.
The conclusion you’re saying doctors arrive at—which I don’t doubt you’re correct about—is actually completely fucking backwards.
The environmental causes are availability of options we crave but are still not forced into, so individual responsibility is absolutely a thing.
I was obese and it sucked but I got down to a healthy weight, and keeping it off kind of still sucks but it doesn’t take a lot of time or money, in fact it’s generally cheaper.
Fast food is constantly highlighted as an impossibly unhealthy reality, the nicer places cost more and take too much time. Except you can choose passable choices in fast food.
If you can freely pick, there are fast food places that offer salads with maybe some grilled chicken, which can be healthy unless you opt to drown it in ranch.
But let’s say you are in a group and they pick a restaurant without an option like salad. Just asking for water instead of a big sugary drink gets you so much closer to healthy. Skip the fries, skip the mayo, get a smaller burger. All these things are cheaper and friendlier to a reasonable caloric budget.
It sucks because it means eating to feeling “ok” while skipping the most awesome foods and rarely getting to feel just utterly full, but that was just life when people had healthier weight.
Similarly on activity. It does suck that work has people sedentary, but our idle pursuits are similar. When I was a kid, TV was stuck on a schedule and video games were only so engaging, so we would get bored and want to do something. Maybe it was walk amongst some trees to see if anytime interesting was around. Maybe do something with a ball. Nowadays we can get endless engagement from streaming, video games, and Internet. So tempting to just be on the couch. We can still choose those more active things, but we don’t want to.
Note all this awesome stuff is still great in moderation. I just went full on gorging at a restaurant a week ago on pretty much whatever I wanted. The thing is this is maybe like once every 2 or 3 weeks, not daily like we really want to.
That’s the trick!
They believe everyone is gluttonous and slothful because they’re misanthropic.
which points squarely at an environmental cause
No, it points to people eating processed food and other shit. Guess what, you can still be healthy if you eat healthy.
That’s the cause I think they were referring to.
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For the moment, anyway, it’s possible to eat good-ish if you educate yourself andfamiliarize yourself with your local area’s businesses.
Of course it’s “possible;” anything is “possible.” What matters is, why is it apparently harder to do in the US than in other places?
Something is different on the societal level that changes the average outcomes. Disregarding that because you’re bent on blaming individuals for perceived moral failings is missing the point.
So then the question becomes, why is processed food and other shit so pervasive in the average American diet? That’s what an environmental factor is.
Refusing to think about the problem in terms of systems because you’ve got a hard-on for blaming individuals is absolutely missing the point.
Eating health is a responsibility of an individual.
Trying to blame the omnious evil system instead of the responsibility of each individual is absolutely missing the point.
Then why are Americans so much worse at it, on average, than people in e.g. France or Japan. You can’t just say “hurt durr Americans are just irresponsible;” that’s a bullshit cop-out and you know it.
I’m trying to have a conversation about what it would take to actually solving the problem here; if you just want to feel morally superior you can go ahead and fuck off.
Oh, and by the way: even if the problem really were that Americans were more irresponsible on average compared to people from other countries, there would have to be a systemic reason why and that’s the thing that would be relevant to talk about! Your thought-terminating cliche is completely fucking worthless.
You can’t just say “hurt durr Americans are just irresponsible;”
Actually, I can. That’s why americans are more obese and have more credit card debt - it all boils down to irresponsibility.
I’m trying to have a conversation about what it would take to actually solving the problem here
Solving the problem would be rather simple, subsidize healthy food so a cucumber doesn’t cost 6$. Make mandatory cooking classes in school so kids know how to cook, at least to some extent. The magical word is “education”.
even if the problem really were that Americans were more irresponsible on average compared to people from other countries
There is no “if”. They are.
there would have to be a systemic reason why
No. It boils down to people eating shitty food and not knowing/having no interest in knowing how to cook.
Like, we can argue all day about american processed food being full of additives and sugar and high fructose corn sirup etc, which is certainly the case, but at the end of the day, the people who eat it know that this is the case, so they are irresponsible, and if they don’t, it once again boils down to education.
You are 100% correct that we as a society have a problem with this
That’s why the individual has to take extra care to eat right and excersise. Their doctor needs to emphasize this as much as possible.
VCan we fix out society? I don’t know, I sure hope so. But in the meantime people are responsible for their own health.
Yeah but your doctor cant prescribe you burning down capitalism, they can prescribe you lower your caloric intake.
Yeah but your doctor cant prescribe you burning down capitalism
Unless…
“Actually officer I have a prescription”
Look around your doctor’s waiting room. Everyone is fat.
Lots of people are old and age correlates with weight gain. But the volleyball player who blew out her ACL isn’t fat. Neither is the chemo patient who is back for a final round.
How can those observations not color their general attitude?
Doctor: “Feels like everyone I see is either sick or injured”
Nurse: “Try spending less time in the ER”
I’m not sure your second point works, or maybe I just don’t understand it. It’s not like the doctor is making judgements that people are fat outside a hospital- they’re doing their job. You’ve got a car and it’s starter goes out every year, last time being a year ago. Your car wont start. Whats the first assumption?
It’s not ableist or bias to assume that the most common issue is the most likely issue. They see a ton of people whos problems are irrefutably due to their weight. It’s not the doctors job to make judgement calls on whether that person is wholly responsible for their situation, it’s their job to doagnose the problem and help take steps to fix it. The problem being their weight, the steps include: burn down capitalism and replace it with a system that doesnt incentivise companies to use the cheapest least healthy ingredients, or tell the patient unless they lose weight they’re going to die. One of these is completely pointless to tell the patient, the other gives them an unfair opportunity to potentially save themselves.
They see a ton of people whos problems are irrefutably due to their weight.
Weight is a symptom not a cause. Metabolism, age, injury, psychology - these are causes.
burn down capitalism and replace it with a system that doesnt incentivise companies to use the cheapest least healthy ingredients, or tell the patient unless they lose weight they’re going to die.
Everyone dies. And big people have existed far longer than the advent of processed sugar. But asking people to adopt unhealthy eating habits in pursuit of a tiny waistline isn’t healthy.
Too often I see people conflating “Looking healthy” with “looking pretty”, absent any of the trade offs necessary to maintain appearances.
Weight can cause plenty of issues, it’s both a symptom and a cause.
Medical care for obesity is currently in most cases like telling someone with a broken starter that they need to run their car more instead of replacing the starter.
If eating too much compared to energy usage is unhealthy then there’s already something wrong with the patient that’s causing them to eat too much or expend too little energy. Telling them to lose weight might be the only thing within a provider’s abilities to do, but it’s equivalent to telling someone with a broken starter to leave the engine running.
It is abelist and biased to pass judgement on ones patients for having symptoms of physical, mental, social, or environmental ailments. When a symptom is already socially stigmatized a provider has a responsibility to care for the social impacts of that stigmatization as well, at the bare minimum in one’s own dealings with the patient.
Your first two paragraphs i agree with 100%. Your final paragraph i feel is accurate but id want to really mull over that before I really form an opinion. Obv in an ideal world it’s pretty easy to assign blame, but our legal and cultural issues are so fucked that topics like that really have to be analyzed in depth under the lens of how that would actually effect reality.
analyzed in depth under the lens of how that would actually effect reality
You are implying you imagine some moral hazard where their provider minimizes the risk of the conditions the patient has, and as a result the patient stops seeking treatment. What you’re talking about in reality is shame. “Should a patient feel shame talking to their provider”?, and the answer to that is resoundingly “no”. Shame is a powerful demotivator, it’s function is to stop a person from doing something that threatens their relationships with others or the society they depend on. Trying to motivate someone with shame is counter-productive. All shame in a patient care setting can do is demotivate the patient from seeking care.
Nah, the moral hazard is from the doctors side. What can a doctor get away with without risking them losing their job or putting themselves in a dangerous position.
Sorry, “moral hazard” is a term-of-art (something that doesn’t mean what it says on its face but is used in some particular way in some fields or professions). In this case by “moral hazard” I meant the idea that if you reduce the harm of some course of action there’s a chance that people will engage in it more because it’s less harmful now. It usually is applied to risky-yet-beneficial behaviours like injury from sports or from outdoor pursuits. It’s ridiculous in that context (I don’t think we should make things worse just so they don’t get better) and doubly or triply ridiculous when the risky behaviour isn’t beneficial or also isn’t effectively voluntary.
Lots of people are old and age correlates with weight gain.
Only in the US and countries with similar shitty feeding habits.
Only in the US
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/obesity-and-overweight
Not actually true.
That didn’t address any link with age.
shoutout to my current PCP for actually listening to my symptoms and (most importantly) when they started/worsened and treating them and/or the cause while also reminding me I still need to keep working on my weight
gonna miss her when I move towns :[
Doctors will be the first AI replacement
Not even close.
Probably the last one to be honest.
Last one is AI programmers
no, but they might use it soon.
More like as soon as they leave medical school in my experience.
Have you tried not being fat?
reminder: shitpost
I’ve not not tried it
I can’t believe it took me 45 years to try that but man am I happy I did. Well, I’m almost there. None of my clothes fit anymore though.
What part of the Hippocratic Oath does this refer to? If anything, the Oath specifies “us[ing] those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgment”.
This is a joke, in a community for jokes.
I’m consistently 20-30 kilo above what was considered ideal weight for my height. It took 10 different visits to 10 different doctors to find my life-altering disease that was caused by basically a slow acting infection. 9 of them attributed my very real and severe symptoms to “well, what do you want from me, you’re a fatty fat fat and until you fix this you will be bad and miserable and actually deserve it, and did I mentioned you’re fat?”. All of them were as smug as you are right now, all of them presumably thought that they’re helping.
Now that that shit is fixed, I’m still the same weight, but weirdly enough, no symptoms and I am feeling good. Almost like my body type has nothing to do with anything.
And that’s what the meme is referring to.I heard Dr Mike saying the other day that as a doctor he admits prescription drugs suck. End of the day, they have serious risks vs benefit. But the one thing known to give you the benefit of drugs without the risk is lowering your weight. Like across the board it improves so many things. I don’t envy doctors who know what the answer is but are told they’re assholes for trying to help
Obesity is a disease, so it should be treated as such. It’s not more of a personal failure then getting lung cancer from smoking.
Yet tobacco companies are shamed and taxed, while the sellers of addictive junk foods and sugary waters are thrivingcand marketing for children.
And at the end, people are dying, and taxpayers are paying the cost for capitalist greed.
Nobody blames the patient for getting lung cancer, they blame the patient for smoking for years knowing the risks.
Same thing with obesity related heart issues. You aren’t being blamed for the heart issues, you are being blamed for eating yourself into obesity.
There’s a saying: “it’s not your fault, but you are the only person who can solve it”.
Only you can reduce your calories, only you can stop smoking and only you can quit alcohol. That’s shitty that you have to, and in an ideal world it wouldn’t be like this, but it is.
it’s 100% true, I am treated as less than human because high BMI.
