The easiest way to increase turnout is running a young charismatic candidate with a progressive campaign, like 08 Obama…
Unfortunately we don’t have that option this election, probably not 2028 if Harris wins this one, so keep your fingers crossed for 2032 when people might be able to vote for a Dem candidate and not just against the Republican candidate.
Until then we’re doing the same dance as the last decade, holding your nose and hoping shit at least stops getting worse. And praying enough other people do the same.
I’m pretty optimistic about Kamala
I don’t know if I would say optimistic myself, but I’m willing to give her a chance.
Same.
Most everyone is. The only ones that aren’t are MAGA and single-issue leftists that weren’t going to vote no matter who is running, but they’re already statistically removed from polling data. So… irrelevant.
You’re not wrong. Running on progressive policies would mobilize a lot of people to get up and vote. I think people just don’t want to hear it right now the only options presented to the public are Harris and Trump. With Trump being the most overtly fascist candidate we’ve seen in quite a while, those who don’t want Trump see Harris, who is running the same campaign as Biden (aka, business as usual) as the only option, because she is the only other option other than Fascism in this race.
Because of that, I think many people see any criticism of Harris or her position as advocating for Trump during this election cycle. Which I absolutely disagree with. I think everyone should absolutely demand more from our representatives. It is on them to galvanize support and get more people to vote, by advocating for legislation that those people want.
I think this mentality that it is the fault of the people for being apathetic, instead of the fault of the politician for not galvanizing more people to vote via popular policies, is misplaced due to the very real fear of the Republican parties policies and lack of influence over the Democratic party.
Instead of politicians aiming for wider public support through progressive policies, we see more democratic backsliding and a continuation of neoliberal policies. Which I think only makes more people apathetic.
Vote Harris. Even with the most pessimistic view, Fascism now is still much worse than Fascism later.
…
So you understand that Harris being more progressive would get more votes and help beat trump…
But because it’s so important to beat trump…
You think no one should publicly comment that Harris being more progressive would get more votes?
Biden isn’t the candidate anymore, there’s a decent chance Harris might listen and give voters what they want Or are you saying you don’t think she ever will?
No, I myself have advocated repeatedly that Harris should be more progressive. That was just my analysis of why some people don’t like to hear it, even if they are voting for her.
Honestly, I don’t think she will part from Biden on anything from what I’ve seen. I think it’s a big mistake when trying to gain as much votes as possible. She should have pivoted on things Biden is unpopular on.
I was extremely enthusiastic for the Harris ticket once Walz was picked, but after the DNC I got disillusioned. Still voting Harris, but I won’t stop advocating for things I feel like she needs to change on in the meantime. Maybe she’ll pivot after election, assuming she wins, but I kinda doubt that. If there are major national protests that force her to change, maybe. I’m not sure public organizing, including unions, is quite there yet.
“They have to do that stuff first to earn my vote! I don’t care if they never had the power to do so!”
-Morons
Except I keep voting and they still don’t care what I think because I’m on the left.
Vote in the primaries.
The only reason I’m a registered Democrat is so I can vote in the primaries in my state. And I do so as often as possible.
Good! You’re pulling things to the left!
So politics means “when you do things right it will feel like you’ve done nothing at all?”
No, it just means there’s more people pulling things to the right. Next you gotta convince people to pull with you.
The absolute top tier play for Leftists now is to show up in DROVES this election, hand Kamala a landslide. And then put up a ton of candidates in the next primary. Show the DNC that you are a force which can win elections, and then put the fear of being primaried in them. That’s dragging things to the left.
Considering every election makes me feel more like an outsider in my own country I think it will be less frustrating just to feel like I lose every election.
Unless you have some tips on breaking Americans of their patriotism.
i’m just here for the yOuUuUuU sUpPoRt GeNoCiDe!!! chuds to get triggered and provide entertainment
inb4 “Genocide Joe” and “Blue MAGA” comments
“They’ve had 4 years to do something!”
Ughh… Learn how it works people. We had 2 conservative “Democrat” (golly gee look how Manchild is not a Democrat anymore literally…) senators deny everything from 2020-2022, then we lost the house to Republicans who’s idea of bipartisanship is to give Democrats the finger all the time from 2022-2024… Sooo what exactly could we do?
Then there’s the extra special people who want to “balance” by voting D president and R representatives… Ffs… That shit died when Gingrich started his “my way or go fuck yourself” brand of politics…
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You are literally the outside foreign influences.
And who the fuck are you?
Discussing American politics online isn’t being a foreign influence. I’m not American, but sure as fuck their politics affects me.
Unfortunately whatever shit goes down in your country affects the rest of the world.
Nobody would’ve given a fuck about USA if it was as relevant as Romania or Denmark.
I mean, where you sign up says something about you, right?
Yarr.
You’re not wrong.
Lol I can understand the confusion, but I really am an American in America. I came over from the reddit exodus last year and lemmy.world couldn’t handle all the new people for a time so I swapped over to a smaller instance that happens to be from the Netherlands.
I hope you don’t mind me squatting here feddit.nl :P
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Where’s your proof? This is the dumbest shit posted here today.
Why you even speaking up? Where you from?
You came into a comment chain which didn’t involve you and offered no proof of your own. Stop being like you are.
If you didn’t believe me before what would it matter if I told you I’m from NY and specifically long island? I could tell you I hate the L.I.E with every fiber of my being, that housing prices for glorified shacks that look like they burned down twice are going for 300k, and that the ocean parkway is a decent way to get around shit traffic on sunrise highway. I don’t know how a random person on the Internet is supposed to prove that is true though.
You could also just check my comment history, I’ve mentioned where I’m from a number of times. It’s one of the reasons I don’t delete my history, so if anyone questions “who I am” they can just check it. Just be warned, there’s a bunch of stupid comments, exasperation, and self loathing there lol
Not that it matters, but at least I didn’t downvote you. I understand the skepticism
You not from NY, you think anything other a parking spot going for 300, like stop playing
Why are you like this
I can’t help anymore than I already have. I’m not posting personal information to prove anything. I really don’t know why you’re so dead set on being convinced I’m not from the US.
If I was trying to influence people by being deceptive don’t you think I’d avoid having a foreign instance? I’d have like America.Patriot.Eagle or some nonsense lol
I’m from Suffolk county so…:
Edit: I had to come back to this because it just hit me, if you were able to tell that most prices really are wayyyyy higher than 300k are you from NY too? That would be absolutely wild out of all the people on here we’d end up having this discussion as “neighbors!” Small world and all that shit lol
Bah, the only way to suss out a true New Yorker is to check their preferred Pizza joint.
My kitchen! Lol
My grandma taught me how to make a fried pizza years ago and now that’s all I want to make when I want pizza lol
We welcome all. You can get your standard issue clogs and bitterballen at check in ;)
Hell yeah! Thanks for the welcome!
People don’t vote because politicians don’t materially benefit them. When politicians provide significant support to regular ass people in way that materially benefit them you will see more voters turn out, not when you whine to them about them not voting. If politicians wanted this to occur, our state reps and their staffers would be in our work places, talking to people, giving them reasons to be involved with the political party apparatus, and providing material aid to the poorest and least represented among us with their own hands. We have bad voter turn out because shitty, myopic politics breeds political disinvestment. This post has it pretty much exactly backwards.
Anecdotally, I have friends from MA who don’t give one fuck about politics. Haven’t voted in years despite me telling them, messaging them with voter registration status, and locations, giving them every resource they need to make it as easy as possible. None of it mattered. Two of these friends in the last year have told me they want to vote for Governor Healy because they intend to use the free community college program, unprompted. Went out of their way to tell me. Another friend told me they like their state rep because they showed up at a union rally for their union and my friend realized from talking to the politician personally that the rep was a socialist who just happened to have a D next to their name.
“You” in this context, is reffering to over 200,000,000 individuals.
Okay but voting is a group project and everyone I’m partnered with is ignorant and short-sighted.
School really did prepare us for real life in the end
Thems sure done did
None were left behind.
God, I hate fighting people just to get them to vote in a way that makes mathematic and strategic sense.
I have a really hard time staying cool and collected when I discuss politics with people who hold right-wing positions. As a result, I never do volunteer work for political campaigns, because it seems like the only positions available are phone-banking and door-knocking. It’s frustrating; I want to help, but I feel strongly that I’d do more harm than good, doing either of those things.
To be fair, you’re looking at either getting shot at, going to jail for assault of a nazi, or at best, suffer a heart attack from the sheer blood pressure one gets dealing with those insufferable people. I think not volunteering is probably for the best, haha.
How about putting up signs?
Reminder: you can find instructions to check your voter registration here, as well as voting resources for your state.
That site is busted. I’m registered but it tells me it has no record after sending me into a loop of putting in my info. Republicans probably pushed fascist updates to it.
vote.gov is busted?
Or your state’s registration website?
Which is why Reps are the ones constantly vying for various “voter security” measures (voter suppression).
Vote like your life depends on it. Because it does.
Stop wasting your vote with the duopoly; voting out of fear should not be the norm.
Do not give in to the fearmongering that the establishment and the politicians push on the people every four years.
Our long-term goal should be to continue to build up grassroots movements for the working class; this won’t happen in a day.
Hey vote and you can accomplish alllll this wonderful stuff, all the stuff you want.
You: wHy dO yOu WaNt mE tO vOtE iN fEaR.
Voting for the status quo for many decades did not improve the lives of workers.
In fact, we are involved in multiple wars, and our economy is not doing so well again.
our economy is not doing so well again.
Uhh
Man… this makes me miss being in high school.
Do you notice you misportray again? You vote for change. Sure it might be a little change until the Dems are sure they can keep winning, but that’s how change starts. Like, see the original post again.
Carter wanted to change things. And he got voted the fuck out.
So Clinton learned to go to the center, and he won.
Gore wanted to change things and ran on environmentalism. And bam he lost the election.
So Obama learned to not say anything. He ran on vague hope. But he did the ACA. And what was his thanks? To lose the House of Reps, then again lose the house of reps, and then to lose both the house of reps and the senate.
Clinton said she’d have a map room to fight climate change. And bam she lost the election.
So Biden learned to stfu about environmentalism. And he won. But Biden did green energy anyway. And what was his thanks? Polls said he was going to lose.
So Kamala also learned to stfu about environmentalism and pretty much anything progressive.
That’s what the situation is. The Dems go to the center because everytime they look left they loose. How do you make things progress? By giving Dems consistent and overwhelming victories.
Such an astute point! Well said!
Hey vote and you can accomplish alllll this wonderful stuff, all the stuff you want
Voting is a necessary but not sufficient condition for accomplishing things. For example, I voted for Obama to get some kind of single payer and that didn’t happen.
Plus there’s things I want that no amount of voting will accomplish, like the dissolution of nation-states.
What Dems need is consistent and overwhelming victories. Want single payer? Then you need more house reps and senators so Manchin types can’t water it down. Thus the message in the original post.
Unfortunately I can’t vote in other districts or states so I’m at the whims of whatever everyone else does.
Like I said in another post: Voting is a group project and everyone in my group is ignorant and short-sighted. I hold no hope for ever getting the sort of overwhelming victories we need.
If it will take forty years of solid Democratic majorities to unfuck this country then it will never be unfucked.
This is the point where I point to the original post.
The original post is very Pollyanna and ignores systemic and demographic problems that will never allow that level of domination.
I’ve been voting for 25 years and these things haven’t happened, and I don’t think they will ever happen.
It’s a tad simplistic but it’s on point because the left never shows up or votes 3rd party. If they showed up, it would be a big change.
Our long-term goal should be to continue to build up grassroots movements for the working class; this won’t happen in a day.
Cool, now which is easier to build movements under, a fascist regime, or a moderate milquetoast capitalist regime?
Will throwing your vote away in protest of ‘the duopoly’ do anything, in this election, to change that or meaningfully contribute to a grassroots movement for the working class?
We have a thousand tools at our disposal. Voting is one - an important one. Tools should not be misused, but each one used in its own unique way to maximize its effect on your goals.
We are currently in a fascist regime; both parties are heavily lobbied by corporations that dictate policy.
People continue to struggle more and more under both parties, while they play political theater to continue to divide us.
Voting outside the two-party system will help establish that people do have standards when voting.
Voting is one - an important one.
Yes, and a good percentage of the populace decides to stay in and not reward the duopoly with their vote.
The problem with this take is that you cannot conversely punish the duopoly by withholding your vote, regardless of whether or not you think they “earned” it. Even if you don’t vote, one of them still gets in. The problem is, the people who are going to vote for the significantly worse of the two options are very motivated to vote, and they will do so.
Yeah. Somehow they think that if they don’t vote- no one gets elected. They don’t understand that a decision will be made without their input.
Or they do, and that’s the entire point.
Lord.
The Lord won’t help us on this one; we need to be the ones to fight for what we demand.
The civil rights movements happened because people were fed up with the status quo.
How is giving your vote to whoever becomes the largest by not voting winning anything? You can do all the other things you mentioned and still make a conscious choice to do the least harm by not voting a demagogue in. It’s just one of the many steps you can take as a person wishing to influence the world around you.
Just like eating no meat or less meat. Will it fix everything wrong with farming? No. Does that mean you should just start buying more meat and not eat it, letting it rot in your fridge instead? Also no! No one cares if you did that and it accomplishes nothing except make the problem much worse, which is exactly what not voting gets you.
Again, the duopoly is the staus quo, it will not help fix the systematic problems our society faces.
Then get involved in a 3rd party that works against the republican fascists and coordinates with Democrats for ballot access like WFP.
Whining about “the duopoly” and not voting will just move things further right.
There is the right to cast a vote, also a right to protest.
Please don’t confuse the two and protest by not voting.
Voting and protesting: to create a better society, people need to be willing to demand more than what the status quo can provide.
Heads up. “Left of Shill Stein” is what most know to be called democrats.
The presidential election year before the Voting Rights Act of 1965 saw relatively high voter turnout. 61.4%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout_in_United_States_presidential_elections
People voted in the Democratic Party candidate by a wide margin. 61.1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_United_States_presidential_election
If we protest, but then don’t vote, nothing will change. So voting in records numbers is the answer. Specifically, in our present case, voting for the party that wants to improve things incrementally over fascists.
I see the duopoly as the fascists, though…
Please provide examples to justify your claim. I’d like to know more. I’ll give you your first one since it’s everywhere in the headlines nowadays - weapons to Israel.
Believing in lies doesn’t make them true. The Republicans are fascists who believe immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country and that the genes of people of color predispose them to be criminals. Just because Republicans believe it doesn’t make it true.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/10/07/trump-immigrants-crime-00182702
Maybe the real fascists were the friends we made along the way
We are currently in a fascist regime; both parties are heavily lobbied by corporations that dictate policy.
That’s not fascism.
People continue to struggle more and more under both parties, while they play political theater to continue to divide us.
100% people need to engage more. And in national elections quit voting for 3rd parties. Showing solidarity with and not dividing themselves from the rest of the left. Till our voting system is reformed and 3rd party presidential candidates are no longer a mathematical impossibility. With the only message being sent, that you’re safe to ignore.
Voting outside the two-party system will help establish that people do have standards when voting.
That’s literally the exact opposite of what it does.
Yes, and a good percentage of the populace decides to stay in and not reward the duopoly with their vote.
Then they get the lack of change they’ve committed to.
Why is it that any time these pseudo-intellectual “leftists” pop up to spew their bullshit, they’re knocked back by like… 5-10 people that absolutely school them and in the end, all they can respond is-
“Nuh-uhh!”
And then rinse and repeat the following day. What do they think they’re accomplishing? I mean, it’s especially very telling that they’re downvoted into the dark ages on a platform that supposedly leans heavily in their direction.
This says a lot in my opinion. In that there may be hope for lemmy once the election is over and these vapid people eventually collapse in on themselves like a dying star.
THEY ALWAYS COME BACK. But it will be quieter for a year or two. If they’re sincere, and some are. They’re suffering form the same mental weakness/illness that the MAGATS are. They want to believe they are righteous, correct, and in possession of special knowledge or insight. That they believe those that disagree with them can’t comprehend.
If they’re not sincere. Well they’re still like the MAGATS. Malicious, spiteful, and crab mentally. Either hypocritically, simply anti-west like most ML you see. Or benefiting disproportionately on the backs of labor. And know the best way to keep labor down. Is to divide it against itself. Kind of like ML governments do as well.
Reading comments like this is unbelievably frustrating, because you’re so close to being right, but you refuse to take that next tiny step, which makes you dangerously wrong.
Yes, both parties are lobbied out the ass, it’s bad and it’s wrong, but which party at least tries to mitigate the harm? Yes, there’s unproductive political theater that divides, but which party at least tries to talk about real issues that matter to everyday voters?
Your approach is akin to burning down the house instead of doing the hard work of fixing the roof. You will never get the outcome you imagine by voting for a third party, unless you do the hard work of improving our overall system, from inside the system. You play the game with the team you have, not the team you want.
Cool, now which is easier to build movements under, a fascist regime, or a moderate milquetoast capitalist regime?
Let’s be real here, the kind of person ranting on the internet about “ThE DuOpOlY” is not actually interested in building anything at all. They just like to stomp their feet, and shout “no fair!” over and over again like the petculant children they are, while the grownups are busy trying to prevent the country from descending into fascism.
Not the same person, but I carry similar sentiments. I helped form the second largest tech union in North America. What are you doing to support the working working class and build alternatives to capital? Tossing support at the nearest person in fear doesn’t prevent fascism.
To use your example, here are the options:
- today we can definitely get a Union that covers some tech workers but not all of them.
Or
- today we can try to get a Union for all tech workers, but it’s a long shot. And if we lose, the consequences are that we don’t get another union vote for 4 years and during that time, the tech companies get to run rampant with negative propaganda about unions, making the challenge even harder next time.
Which would you choose, second largest tech union guy?
False dichotomy. The stakes of the second version are the same for the first regardless of union size. There never has been and never will be a guaranteed union campaign until we overthrow capitalism.
Voting against the fascist candidate abso-fucking-lutely prevents fascism. This is an extremely simple concept that one would imagine the founder of the second-largest tech union in North America should be able to wrap their mind around.
I think my point has been missed. The fact that there’s an openly fascist candidate running for president means that fascism is already here and in power.
They’re not in power. But you’re helping them get back in power. If people like you decided to get behind the non-fascist, it would be a non-issue, hence the post.
I can name some of them. You probably recognize them.
- Mike Johnson
- Marjorie Greene
- Mitch McConnell
- Jacob Frey
- Leonard Leo
Nowhere did I say I wasn’t voting. Voting is the least effective method of change that exists, but it’s still a method. I will still be participating because it can lead to minor changes. If you think that defeating fascism can be done by voting once every 4 years however, you will be played.
4 month old account
Posts nothing but praise for Third Parties/Jill Stein (a known spoiler vote and Russian asset)
Found the Hidden Trump Supporter guys
Nice try.
I know you would rather I vote for Trump than Dr. Jill Stein, but I do not support the duopoly.
A vote for Stein is supporting Trump.
That’s her purpose. She’s nothing but a tool of the right wing. Democrats are left of Jill Stein.
Edit: , -> ;
It seems many of you want third party voters to vote for Trump, but we do not support or vote for the duopoly.
Democrats are left of Jill Stein.
Your political views are skewed; I would double check the records:
Jill Steins platform is nonsense. She has done nothing to accomplish any of it, only shows up for presidential elections, and one of her people literally said that their goal was to try and get Harris to lose battleground states for a Trump win as they know Jill Stein won’t.
Said at a Jill Stein event as part of a speech.
Jill Stein is a tool of the republican party and nothing more.
I suggest you find a third party that isn’t completely garbage.
No one here believes you.
Very long way to tell us how straight and white and not in immediate danger you are.
Wrong assumtions on all parts.
Nice try though, racing to the bottom with victimhood so as to disregard others that do not bow down to your ideals.
I’m going to bet they’re not wrong. You clearly have nothing to lose by throwing away your vote. Meanwhile, others need to vote for their lives and the lives of our loved ones while YOU….
You get to sit and pretend that none of it matters unless you get your way.
That’s entitlement. And entitlement usually only come from a single source.
If that’s true, then you’re in the same boat as us, only you’re holding the gun to your own head instead of having it held by someone else, and talking about what a principled stand pulling the trigger is going to be.
This imaginary gun is being held by the duopoly against the populace every four years, just so that the status quo can continue.
Fact that you call it imaginary continues to spell out for us your position of privilege.
You are no ally of the oppressed. You are an appropriator of our language to buy your own feelings of moral superiority.
Again, just spelling out how white and not in danger you are, just now you’re lying about it because you think just going “nah bro” hides how above it all you’re talking as if you know you’ll be fine anyways.
Political tribalism is working really well to keep dividing us.
You have already made up your mind that everyone who does not follow your ideals must have much more privilege than yourself.
No, you just behave in a way that gives yours away because you’re the exact kind of privileged twit who unironically named themself “LeftOfJillStein” like that signals anything other than that you’re a purity tester who can afford to let everyone else die while they wait for their messiah before taking any action towards even harm mitigation.
Again, you made up your mind to have a competition of racing to the bottom, so you can continue to dismiss and ignore others.
I am for fighting for a better society for the future, and that starts by growing grassroots movements and continuing to help our local communities.
I see the Green Party as a stepping stone that will help us much more in the long term, tacking our systematic problems.
Exactly what grass roots steps are the greens taking aside from appearing out of thin air every four years to spoil elections to the Republicans?
I didn’t just make up my mind, you chose to behave in a way that made you obvious.
The green party’s goal is a trump win.
Sawant’s speech, introducing Jill Stein. Emphasis mine:
We are not in a position to win the White House, but we do have a real opportunity to win something historic, we could deny Kamala Harris the state of Michigan. And the polls show that most likely Harris cannot win the election without Michigan.”
That’s who you want to vote for?
The person trying to give Trump a win?
Just be honest with yourself and vote for Trump then. Or, you know, place a vote for Harris and not have republican fascism win.
Especially considering Jill Stein is a tool of the right wing. Democrats are left of Jill Stein.
^ THIS… is what MAGA wants you to believe. ^
Fuck your gun control. If you’d stop trying to disarm the proletariat you’d have all the other things.
This might surprise you, but we don’t want gun control.
We want to send our kids to school with out worrying that some whackjob is gonna loose 200 round of military grade firepower into their classroom.
We want to to be able to stand in line for pizza without it being a life threatening event.
We want fast food workers to be able to run out of French fries without getting fired upon.
We want to be able to sleep in our own beds, in our own homes without worrying that our neighbors will mix up houses, come in, and shoot us thinking we are an intruder.
Thats what we fucking want, and if you can find a way to get all that without enacting very slight inconveniences to the sale and ownership of firearms in the US, then you need to speak up. Otherwise you need to fucking shut up.
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This thread is a shitshow.
American democracy ends in a month if things go poorly. It’s done, over, gone. A Mein Kampf reader will no longer have any restraints, no adults at the table to say “no, that’s wrong” if he wins again.
DEMOCRACY. WILL. BE. OVER.
Bitch, whine, fuck you bringing this up in thread last 30 days, I live here. So do my fucking friends and family. I don’t want to see them or I put in camps to be “deported” for having the wrong skin color, lover, gender, or religion/lack thereof.
Fuck you, vote.
*assuming you live where your vote matters
Me voting or not voting for the Democrats here in California doesn’t effect the election one bit
I still did it because they ditched the shitty old guy who said he wasn’t going to run again, but I’m not pretending I’ve actually done anything in doing so
No. There are plenty of down ticket races even if your vote for the presidential candidate doesn’t matter, it might very well make the difference between a good School Board candidate in your school district or a right wing book banning bible pushing nut job
It might be the difference between a normal city council or a far-right Nazi take over of your city council.
Just. Fucking. Vote.
There are plenty of down ticket races
No shit Sherlock? Post says “if you want to avoid trump” so I’m commenting on that race
But thanks for the condescension, it’s always cute
Vote for supporters of ranked choice voting
Americans: … what’s that? … (Fox news blaring in the background) … are you sure?
Fox is one of the greatest atrocities to ever hit the airwaves. I do wonder how much of our recent national damage is directly attributable to it. Not a majority, most likely. But a non-negligible chunk.
Obligatory: I FUCKING HATE PROPAGANDISTS!
Fox “news” primetime is literally the two minutes hate from 1984. There is just a rotating Goldstein of the month.
If you see a Fox News viewer in public, when the TV flips on you can see them drool
