She will most likely not be a great president, but could be a good one. If Biden wasn’t so poor on the Middle East, he would have been a great one, from a policy perspective.
Were there a normal option available to vote for, she’d be worse. But she’s better than Trump because Trump is just an acceleration of the ongoing trash show, while she is said show going on as planned - she’s the candidate from the folks who planned it, as in “establishment” and “big financial interest”.
Biden never was going to be a great president, lacking a a majority in both houses means you burn up too much political capital to get anything done that doesn’t already have broad bipartisan support. And with how divided politics is today compared to any point in history where we had a great president, there is no such thing as bipartisan today.
Yeah, passing the new deal in the McCarthy era was cake.
… The new deal was passed 10 years before the McCarthy era. FDR was dead before McCarthy even started his red scare.
Do you live in an alternate timeline?
I was being over broad. The first red scare was after WW1 and was a prominent feature of Republican politics from that point onwards. If you look into the resistance to the new deal, it was the same red scare nonsense that McCarthy rode as a wave.
Did the Trump era start in 2016, or did he simply usurp a rising fascist current in American society? I personally think it’s more of the latter than the former. Likewise with McCarthy, but it’s fair that I was corrected.
I’m fine with how Afghanistan went. The military would have dragged it out for another 10 years. I’d much rather have a suboptimal quick withdrawal.
Nobody’s arguing it was short-term better for the US. It abandoned to the wolves all of the people who worked with it in Afghanistan, though. And did that abruptly. Betrayals tend to have long-term consequences. Those who think they’ve seen a few betrayals go well without those, just have blind spots.
Yeah, actually. I agree that Biden handled the Afghanistan situation as well as anyone could. I guess I’d forgotten that with all of the things happening now.
Edit:
Did anyone die? A quick Google search shows yes. That’s horrible. I’ve read several news sources on it but I’m wondering if you’ve found out the facts about that bombing? It’s more digging than I have the time for right now.
And supported labor better.
And supported labor
better.
Maybe she’s just waiting for the election to be over before she disbands AIPAC and cuts ties with natenyahu?
And then personally arrest Trump and abolish the Electoral College while smoking a fat blunt.
she could be a great president if she issues an arms embargo against Israel
So you’re saying you’re still voting for her because you’re not a literal Nazi, right? Right?
Ham sandwich. It’s right there
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are you actually stupid 😭
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Well she doesnt not do Nazi type things…
well we already the “Worst President” < that dump inept man!!! so anything is better! Kamala will be AWESOME!
drumpf!!!
Maybe a club, or a ruben. I don’t know about just plain ham.
What if it came with Dijon mustard?
Lately the American dream has been reduced to someone passing you a jar of grey poupon out of the back seat of their car so I like where you are going with this.
…… go on
By a waiter with a tan suit.
I don’t think Mama Cass would vote for a ham sandwich.
Do people really put the veggies underneath the cheese and the meat? Have I been sandwiching wrong my whole life?
Same with a burger. Your lettuce should be dry (pat it with a paper towel if you must) and put it as the bottom layer. This creates a moisture barrier that stops your bread/bun from turning into a soggy mess.
On a sandwich, the cheese should be on the other side for the same reason. Keep all the wet stuff from turning your bread into slop.
This person sandwiches…
Absolutely correct on all accounts. These are important laws, and many of us have independently arrived at them due to previous errors in sandwich construction.
The video’s reversed, dummy…
Maybe JD Vance turned the camera upside down.
It’s understandable - how else can he get the media to focus on this sandwich problem?
They’re eating the hoagies! They’re eating the patty melts! THEY’RE EATING THE SANDWICHES IN SPRINGFIELD!
Don’t worry, voters will definitely hand both houses to the Republicans in 2026 if she’s elected and they’ll take their orders directly from Trump.
Because that’s what always happens.
I just hope Trump is dead by 2026.
There could always be some other MAGA asshole to fill the void, but the dissolution of Trump’s cult of personality would be a crippling blow.
There’s always an asshole. Newt Gingrich, Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump. And our electoral system and goldfish-memory population will continually put them into power.
Don’t blame “the population”, if everybody had exactly the same starting conditions, they’d end up the same. I’m autistic and generally - from experience with people - think that every popular thing is crap and every popular idea is crap, and the more hated something is, the more wisdom may be in it.
But. The population generally has the same kind of memory as you. There are a lot of traps and distractions, they fall for some, you fall for some others. There’s no need to blame the victim.
Newt, Mitch and the others only have their local GOP cult, they don’t have the national cult that the orange turd does.
Okay, Rush, Hannity, and Alex Jones & The Turds.
There will always be an asshole. That’s the entire reason we even have government in the first place.
It’s the money, not the assholes.
Peter Theil, Leonard Leo and Citizans United need to be stopped. The mega churches would be my next concern, since they breed the moron class that elects the assholes.
But money in politics is still the problem, and media will be superfucked if we remove it, so they won’t talk about it.
They’re working on JD Vance to fill the void.
Maybe if that void is the space between the couch cushions.
That’s not what happened in 2022, at least not quite. Don’t underestimate Trump’s ability to insert himself and mess up whatever easy wins the GOP would otherwise have.
It didn’t happen to FDR.
Yeah but he didn’t integrate the population racially so he got to keep power.
“Objectively” is such a fun way to describe what will always be a divisive position of power. Was any one president considered objectively good?
Grant’s administration was deeply imperfect - corruption ran deep - but he eradicated the first KKK. I feel like that’s an objective good, and anyone who disagrees isn’t worth listening to.
Does doing one good thing translate to being “an objectively good president” though? Broken clock and all that.
A president who performed an objective good, if you like
George S. Washington
george samuel washington was so good
The slaver?
FDR because one can be wrong about objective things
Well, Al Gore was voted president, and he didn’t make any objectionable decisions while George Bush was living in his house and working in his office.
I do wonder what the world would look like if Al Gore had been president.
You can thank Roger Stone for that, if you’d forgotten or if you were too young at the time to care or realize wtf was going on.
I was 15 in 2000…I fell into the latter camp.
He was one of the organizers of the Brooks Brothers Riot, which accomplished its goal of shutting down the Florida recount.
Obviously, since this didn’t happen yet, Trump didn’t know about this when Stone compelled him to run in the reform party that year (when he dropped out in February). The two of them worked together for a long time prior, Stone was a lobbyist for him.
But I’m sure Trump knew about that when Stone became a campaign consultant in 2016. That was also when he got involved with the person selling Hillary’s “derogatory financial info”, as the Mueller investigation revealed.
Didn’t matter tho. Trump commuted his sentence and pardoned him.
After all, the election was coming up. Stone already helped Bush secure a seat in 2000, and dug up dirt that cost Hillary the election. Dirt that wasn’t even really that dirty, just needed good spin.
And of course, he was instrumental in planning J6.
Dude is literally the most treacherous of treasonists. Comic book levels of villainy. No doubt he’s got something queued up to “ensure” a Republican “win” this year. He was primarily responsible for the last two Republican “wins” and really wants that third.
FDR. Fight me about it.
James Garfield.
It would be a very quick debate too. Assuming she’s not vegan like me. But hey if it was me against a vegetarian Vietnamese sandwich 🥪, bring it on bitch! You going down!
Nothing quite like some pickled daikon…
Yup! My favorite ingredient in a sandwich trying to compete for my position.
Thank you for being honest and not trying to pretend you care about Palestinians.
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Is there a candidate that would help protect the Palestinians? Like a legitimate one that has even a remote possibility of winning? Nah? OK I’ll vote for the other things I care about then since that one is out of reach.
I think Kamala will be an objectively great president
That means, not just in comparison to Trump, but actually good in general. The moment you say or endorse that statement, talking about Trump or whether there’s a viable alternative is 100% whataboutism.
I respect you less than OP because you’re now pretending like you care about Palestinians, and it’s just because there’s no alternative that you support Harris. I prefer it when y’all take the mask off, because it’s pointless to argue against something the other side is only pretending to believe or value.
Did you have a seizure or something?
No, why do you ask?
Because your comment is so disconnected from reality that it’s the only thing that makes sense to me. Genuinely concerned for you.
The absolute liberal irony in this is fucking hilarious.
You people are just genuinely lost in hyperreality, aren’t you?
p.s. try sneering harder, you’re totally winning over the working class.
“If I act like a smug asshole, people will want to vote who I like!”
It doesn’t work for Musk, it won’t work for weirdos online who think bad polices are okay when it’s blue.
In what way is anything I said disconnected from reality? What are you confused about?
The fact that you’re asking just leaves me more concerned for you.
I think you replied to the wrong comment. The quote you’re including and answering does not exist here.
They asked because they have no rational response to your completely valid points.
As someone who genuinely doesn’t understand American politics too much, wouldn’t Trump be better for the Middle East? I live in Lebanon right now and most people that I talk to say that Trump would be far better than anyone else for the Middle East, considering what he did in his first term. They’ll also back this up with “he’s a business man, and war is bad for business”, but I don’t entirely buy that considering how profitable war is for the US. Could someone put my in the loop?
Trump is a Zionist so he’d probably start backing Israel with more weapons and escalating the current situation with Iran.
I too hate Hezballah, as most do, but issue is that I also live in the same country where they live. I used to feel bad for Americans that had to do active shooter drills. My school just did a “we’re being bombed” drill.
Trump literally said he’d make sure Gaza stops existing.
Although Russian propaganda loves to portray him as being better for the middle east.
I mean, that’s a good looking sandwich
You and I have very different ideas of what a good sandwich looks like. I’d still vote for it though.
maybe that’s mortadella that’s cut way too thick? I dunno. I’m with you. It looks more like turkey than ham to me. Not my sammich.
A ham sandwich can be eaten. Eating is good. That’s 1 pt ham sandwich, 0 gop. Ham sandwich does more for Americans than gop.
The rich can also be eaten.
I’m gonna need a bigger smoker.
And forest’s worth of hickory wood.
Nah, I’m voting Trump. Especially since Dick Chaney came out in support of her. If the war pigs support her, I’m voting against her, 100%
If it weren’t for the fact that so many others would get hurt as a result, I’d wish you luck with your choice and hope that you get what you ask for.
You absolutely deserve Trump.
Thank you, I’m excited for a great economy and being able to get my savings built up again. :)
Gotta say. It’s pretty refreshing to see someone from .ml being so openly MAGA. If only the rest of the “leftists” trumpers there were so honest about their intentions.
What does .ml have to do with it? It was one of the available instances when I switched over from reddit.
I do wish more people were open about voting Trump, but there was a long period where it literally could cost you your job, so I can see why there’s still some hesitancy. I think that’s going away though.
I don’t believe you for a second. But as long as you continue to believe that people are dumb enough to… that’s all that really matters right?
And who knew people don’t like hiring fascists, right?
No one but the actual brain dead think people voting for trump are fascist.
And even though the Nazi party was a blowback reaction to socialism, does not mean every blowback against socialism is fascistic. If we’re not careful, there could be for sure, but trump voters are not fascists, and trump himself is not fascist.
I’m not a fan of socialism, bud. So I’m not sure where you’re going with that, but you do whatever you need to do to justify voting for a fascist.
lemmy.ml moment
Trump is just as much of a warmongerer as anyone. He nearly started WWIII with Iran by assassinating Soleimani. Dick Cheney just doesn’t like him because of personal reasons.
The only isolationists/doves are third party candidates, as has been the case for well over 20 years.
No he didn’t. We’re far closer to WWlll now than we ever were under Trump. Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Palestine, China is creeping up to attack Taiwan… And now Russia and China are tighter than ever, which is not good for the west.
Dick Chaney doesn’t like him because Dick Chaney makes all his money on War. He was literally one of the masterminds behind our war with Iraq.
Now, Mark Cuban… He doesn’t like Trump for personal reasons, lol.
Trump escalated tensions with both China and Russia, while giving total support to Israel. He bombed Syria, tore up the Iran deal, and attempted coups in Bolivia and Venezuela, while expanding sanctions on Cuba. Biden has merely continued his policies. There is broad bipartisan consensus on military spending and escalation of conflicts, and Trump has no real interest in going against that.
Trump talks out of both sides of his mouth to allow everyone to project whatever they want onto him, whether they’re isolationist or the most bloodthirsty of nationalists, and liberals paint everyone who disagrees with their interventionist positions with the same brush, which helps him do it. I wrote a post dissecting his language here. If you actually look at his record and his actions, he’s happy enough to go along with what the military-industrial complex wants. Here is a video that goes into more details about specifics.
Dick Cheney is obviously a horrible monster who deserves the worst, and it reflects very poorly on Harris to accept his endorsement, but just because she sucks doesn’t mean Trump doesn’t.
He was firm with Russia and China, but neither of them moved to attack. I don’t care how mad the two are, as long as it keeps war from breaking out.
I do agree that there’s a bipartisan consensus on military spending, but I think it’s between the Rinos and the DNC. Not that I think Trump will significantly defund our military, but I do think, with those he’s built up around him this time, he’ll be less likely to get into these proxy war situations, end the ones we’re in now, and hopefully we won’t see anymore US-backed coups.
The issue is, all of that will 100% keep happening under Harris. There’s a reason Dick Chaney didn’t endorse Trump, and it’s because he knows he’s not going to get as much sweet war money from the trump administration being in charge. He knows he’ll get that with Kamala.
All of that will 100% keep happening under Trump as well. There is nothing whatsoever that would indicate otherwise. You’re just going off of vibes.
I don’t care how mad the two are, as long as it keeps war from breaking out.
That’s self-contradictory. Worsening relations make conflict more likely. Trump is the one that set us on this trajectory in the first place. The idea of China or Russia being our enemies was laughable before him.
The reality is that neither part of the establishment actually wants war with Russia or China. They’re sitting comfortable at the top and have no reason to throw the world into chaos and jeopardize their comfortable positions. What they want is to rally people up into supporting the possibility of war in order to justify military spending, which they profit from. The risk of war comes from two things: first, someone overplays their hand, and second, that the people who are being rallied up to support war actually find themselves in position to follow through. Part of the reason that some people on the right, such as Tucker Carlson, oppose involvement in the war in Ukraine is because they actually want a full-scale war with China and want to close the other front to make way for it.
I don’t see how you can look at all the coups and bombings and rising tensions and unconditional support for Israel under Trump before and seriously think that he won’t do more coups and such if elected again. It’s just cope.
I am braindead
Ok got it
I see you have trouble reading, I’m sorry about that, I wish you luck with that
Deciding who you vote for purely based on who else supports them is a terrible idea.
It’s not purely that, there are a lot of reasons I won’t vote for Kamala. That was just a huge one.
I really don’t care. Trump is a thousand times worse in every way imaginable.
I disagree. :)
I figured.
I disagree. If literal nazis are behind you, i want nothing to do with you.
Sure that’s fair if there are millions of Nazis, but now it’s a single one.
It’s especially stupid considering Trump’s followers.
Holy shit you’re actually braindead or something. I dislike Harris but I’d be dead before I voted for Trump.
Same, but opposite.
And that’s cool…
As long as when people want her to align more closely with the Dem voting base, you don’t yell at them for questioning the only option and imply they’re trying to help trump.
That bullshit only depresses Dem turnout and actually helps trump.
It’s just completely nonsensical to hear all the “moderates” claim they’d vote for anyone not trump, then go feral when someone points out banning fracking would hand the Dems Pennsylvania which trump needs to win the election.
There are multiple issues like that where if Kamala moved to the left she’d lock this election down.
If you truly only care about beating trump, your time online would be more productive trying to pull the party left than trying to pull tens of millions of voters to the right…
With the obvious benefit of getting those popular policies on top of beating trump.
If it’s not been posted already…
https://theintercept.com/2024/09/10/polls-arms-embargo-israel-weapons-gaza/
Banning sales of arms to Israel would not only attract a huge proportion of otherwise reluctant leftists, but might even steal votes from Trump as a small but not insignificant number of voters have been fooled by his ‘started no wars’ con. The idea that doing so would lose some key demographic is clearly not supported by the data.
But the Democratic strategists are not idiots. They must know this. So one of two things is the case; the polling is wrong, or the Democrats have absolutely no desire to move leftward on this and are willing to risk a Trump win to hold out on their position.
We can rule out the first because if the Democrats had better poll data they’d share it. Nothing to lose by doing so.
So we’re left with the second.
Odd then that the online vitriol is delivered not to the Democrats for cynically risking a Trump victory, but to leftists for being opposed to genocide.
The idea that doing so would lose some key demographic is clearly not supported by the data.
They wouldn’t lose significant voters, theyd lose a bunch of donations…
It doesn’t cost a billion plus to beat donald trump, but the more money there is, the bigger everyone’s slice is and the bigger the bonuses for personally bringing more money is.
The DNC isn’t being run to get Dems in office, it’s a fucking grift where sometimes we do get a Dem in office.
Just never one who’s political policy matches Dem voters.
Look at current DNC leadership, it’s not people that know how to win elections, it’s just whoever can bring in the most donations.
The result is ridiculously expensive and incompetent campaigns. The solution is clearing house at the DNC.
It doesn’t cost a billion plus to beat donald trump,
…
The DNC isn’t being run to get Dems in office, it’s a fucking grift where sometimes we do get a Dem in office.
True. And a cushy consulting job, or a few thousand in bonuses seems like an understandable inventive, if a misanthropic one.
But for those who do the footwork supporting such a system, I just cannot see why. What have the Democrats done to deserve such blind obedience? Is being not-Trump just that impressive these days?
Is being not-Trump just that impressive these days?
Today? Yes. Come inauguration day? Absolutely fucking not. If Kamala wins I’ll talk shit, write letters, donate to causes, protest, and cause trouble from the first day she’s in office until the end of primary season 4 years from now. Then I’m back on the train.
Unless we can get rid of FPTP. Then I’m talking shit every day all fucking day long while happily voting for a candidate who agrees with me most instead of the one I disagree with the least.
If Kamala wins I’ll talk shit, write letters, donate to causes, protest, and cause trouble from the first day she’s in office until the end of primary season 4 years from now
Why?
Most people in America want to end sales of arms to Israel, don’t want to be complicit in genocide.
And Harris is abusing her power by ignoring that to satisfy a few wealthy donors by threatening you all with Trump if you don’t let her do what she wants.
The only way to stop abuse of power is to stand up to it. If you let her (or her replacements) just frighten you into submission with bogeymen you might as well give up any hope of progress.
Sorry, I thought you were here asking a reasonable question with my other reply. If I had known you were like this I wouldn’t have bothered. Is that why you replied with a single word then edited it instead of spewing your tripe initially?
If “Israel should finish the job” Trump tickles your butthole, just say so.
Sorry, I thought you were here asking a reasonable question with my other reply. If I had known you were like this I wouldn’t have bothered.
Yep. So when you thought I was going to play the part of the meek little student at their teacher’s knee you were happy to respond, but as soon as it was clear I might actually disagree… Instantly I must be a Trump supporter, because literally the only option you can think of that isn’t agreeing with you entirely is ‘Trump’.
It’s pathetic.
Edit: this started out as a single word question. The diatribe came after my reply.
It’s a reasonable question. Because I don’t think she’ll go far enough. And if she goes further than I think she will, I’ll push her to go further left than that. I’m not nearly as far left as a lot of folks on Lemmy. I probably fall into Social Democrat on a good day. But that puts me further left than most US politics and pretty much all the politics in my home state.
I’m a pragmatist when it comes to elections. She’s good enough to where I don’t think she’ll sponsor hunting parties for LGBTQ+ folks but I don’t think she’ll be trying very fucking hard to get universal healthcare or working with states to try to get rid of FPTP.
Unless your question is why I won’t do it after primary season. That’s because we don’t fight in front of the kids. I’m going to support the furthest left feasible candidate because, again, pragmatic. I’ll shut my fucking mouth, back the least fascist, and start trying to affect change again the second I can without shitting on that candidate during election season. Plus I like to take a break between election day and inauguration day because it’s all so mentally exhausting and I’ll be drinking more than usual for the holidays.
But the Democratic strategists are not idiots. They must know this.
They always move to the middle in every election chasing “independent” votes that they never get. I see no evidence from history that they “arent idiots”.
This is absolutely correct. I’m sure the 40% of voters who want to keep sending weapons to Israel aren’t even Harris voters. So clearly the Democratic party is only doing it for the love of genocide and it seems obvious that after they finish the genocide in Gaza and Lebanon they’ll shift their focus to genocide of Palestinians and other arabs living in America. This is completely unacceptable to me which is why I voted for Trump.
I thought about voting for a third party but I live in a swing state and want to minimize the chances of Koncentration Kamp Kamala from getting elected so I directly supported Trump rather than indirectly.
A lot of my relatives died in concentration camps. Why the hell are you trivializing them?
I live in a swing state and want to minimize the chances of Koncentration Kamp Kamala from getting elected so I directly supported Trump rather than indirectly.
I could no more vote Trump ‘tactically’ than I could Harris. I think one ought vote according to one’s concience. The whole notion of tactical voting makes a mockery of democracy, if no one could be persuaded to vote tactically there’d be significantly less ‘electioneering’. More like the Nordic model, with way more parties catering to a broader range of political views.
You only have to look at the current Democrat campaign, they barely need a policy at all, they’re running almost entirely on being not-Trump.
Ignores all the policy announcements Kamala made, complains that there aren’t any policies.
But yes, actually, being not Trump is an excellent reason to vote for Kamala, because there are only two possible outcomes of this election, and one of them is a wannabe dictator, KKK-supporting, idiot putin stooge, racist, hate-filled, selfish, duplicitous, personally disloyal, insurrectionist, unamerican, country betraying, diaper-wearing emotional crybaby thrower of money at the already super-rich, and frankly I’m tired of people pretending that he doesn’t desperately need keeping out of the White House.
there are only two possible outcomes of this election
And there’s the problem with all these responses in a nutshell. Shortsightedness.
Yes, there’s only two possible outcomes to this election, and yes Kamala is the better candidate by miles. But your voting actions don’t only affect this election, they affect all future elections. They’re the background against which all political strategy is determined.
If you just bend over every time you’re threatened with four years of some fuckwit in office, then you’ve committed to a political system where your opinion on policy ceases to be relevant. All that’s required for a complete autocracy is for one party to be a unbearable fascist and then the other party doesn’t even have to consider what the electorate actually think because they’re the not-fascists, and that’s all that’s needed.
And this isn’t even slippery-slope. It’s happening right now. The not-fascists are actually complicit in war crimes and are still getting your vote . How much worse will it be in four year’s time after they’ve had it proven to work? Why would they ever listen to the electorate on anything ever again?
Yes, there are just two outcomes. If Trump wins, the Democrats will again move to the right to occupy what passes for the centre ground in American politics. Kamala is one of the most pro worker candidates they’ve had in my lifetime. If they lose against the most incompetently bad president the country had in my lifetime with the most left candidate they’ve had in decades, they will pivot back to the “centre”.
So if they loose because leftists don’t like their policies enough to vote for them, they’ll pivot right? What would be the logic behind such a decision?
There’s thousands of leftist votes available, all they have to do to access them is produce a more left-wing agenda (like, say, not being complicit in war crimes).
But you’re suggesting in response to this loss (as a result of not denouncing war crimes) they’ll not, you know, denounce war crimes next time, but rather shift even more into the ground that’s in direct competition with their only opponent and try to win die hard Republicans who’d vote a Big Mac into government if it wore a MAGA cap?
Can you explain what you think their rationale would be for such a move?
“Koncentration Kamp Kamala”
Listen to yourself. You’re beyond delusional. Seek help.
Sooooo… because you can’t be bothered to understand how things work. You voted for someone that suggests that Israel “finish the job.”
That sure showed those pesky libs!
You’re about as bad-faith as it gets. You’re MAGA, through and through. Drop the act that it has anything to do with genocide.
