I think support for Israel is based on their sharing three principle values of the west: liberalism, democracy, & capitalism.
Some neu Nazis support Israel too, they want a place to send the Jewish population from their country too.
I’ve met a few fascists in my life and every one of them has referred to Israelis as “the tribe,” and advocated for arming the Palestinians so they could finish what Hitler could not. Their ideology was ugly but also very unsupportive of Israel.
Godwin’s Horseshoe.
No. The real reason is to keep an ally in the very Muslim middle east and because they believe that it’s a prerequisite for the rapture.
At this point, I don’t think anyone involved believes in a loving God, or even a God that will punish sinners. Neither of them would want this.
Oh, they figured their way out of that painted corner a long time ago. All they need is Matthew 5:17 and the Old Testament in order to justify any atrocity.
Whenever they are tired of the whole love thy neighbor/turn the other cheek/cast no judgements side of Jesus, they just bring up Matthew: he didn’t come to DESTROY the OT law he came to FULFILL it!
That’s all it takes to make it OK for them to smite enemies and hate people for their sexuality.
They wouldn’t think a holy war sinful. Not when done for their pick of the almighty litter. On that, the three involved parties agree.
ah, someone who understands why humans do this
good to see these days.
it feels bleak at times
and im sure the oil deposits sweeten the deal too
I mean, I also think American Indians have a right to live and self govern in the Americas, and likewise have a right to defend themselves in that context. They just also don’t have the right to bomb and push out all the white people who were born here too. We actually do have somewhat of a two state solution with some tribes in the US, it’s just very inequal and there’s massive systemic problems obviously. I’m not sure this meme is quite making the point you think it is?
So the Israelis also don’t have a right to commit genocide.
No argument there. It’s just unclear what point the meme is making. I agree with the message they’re clearly TRYING to say.
So you got the message, and you’re just ignoring it?
The meme is saying that Israelis rights to the land dont override the rights of other peoples, like the Palestinians. Its pointing out that many who think Israel are doing nonwrong would not be infavour of native Americans bombing their cities, or even giving up their land.
Ok, now do the right of the US to claim and govern the territories that were taken from them by gunpoint.
Big stick and live here, same way it works basically everywhere. But like I was born here too, both of my parents were born here, two of my grandparents were born here. Why would I NOT have the right to be part of the democratic government of the land of my birth?
Native Americans are not The Chosen People. And it is antisemitic to make the comparison.
Thanks for the laugh.
Native Americans are not The Chosen People.
–Joseph Smith
The Chosen People
Found a supremist.
Technically the Greeks own the Earth, because Zeus has a bigger imaginary dick than Jehovah, Yaweh, Allah, Buddha or Krishna. 🤷
You caught me, the haredi raised Persian Jew who is an antisemite.
Huh?
I don’t understand this comment - are you saying they’re a higher/better people because they’re “The Chosen People”? That they deserve the land? And how is the comparison antisemitic?
Because anything and everything is anti-Semitic
It’s sarcasm
I’m going to say something probably incredibly offensive, but I have the safety of my funny online username so it’s ok.
The people are only “chosen” if you subscribe to their beliefs. If you’re insinuating that Native Americans aren’t “chosen” either, then you’ve forgotten that they actually use a picture of you in the dictionary to define “hypocrite”.
You are allowed to question peoples’ beliefs, but you are certainly NOT allowed to take harmful action against them because they are different.
And to be perfectly clear, I am not commenting on which side of the current conflict is entitled to what. I’m not touching that conversation with a 12ft pole.
You say that, but . . . :
…Throughout the 1800’s, adherents cited the current existence of the “red sons of Israel” (i.e. Native American) as evidence of the authenticity of the The Book of Mormon.
Adherents saw Native Americans as part of God’s chosen people and they believed that preaching to them was part of the gathering of Israel which will precede the millennium. The church’s long history with Native Americans is tied to their beliefs about The Book of Mormon. According to sociologist Marcie Goodman, historically Latter Day Saints held paternalistic beliefs about Native Americans needing help. Outreach to Native Americans became the first mission of Smith’s newly organized Church of Christ, as the purpose of The Book of Mormon was to recover the lost remnant of the ancient children of Israel (e.g. Native Americans).
This is a weird comparison. Native Americans were the victims a of horrific genocide similar to Palestinians now.
I understand it more in a way of “if you think Israel is morally doing the right thing, give native americans back their land.”
It becomes pretty horrible if you believe that Israel is in the wrong, though, which is probably why people don’t think it works
The post is literally a satire towards ones who support Israel, it shouldn’t work any other way
Native Americans should be given back their land just like Palestinians.
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Morality did not suddenly appear with international law and international law does not define morality now. What an ignorant take. ‘Property rights’ are made up by western colonialists to oppress indigenous peoples.
Very good point.
Settler colonial re(de)colonize colony USA!
Ask for Manhattan back in exchange for returning the blankets and beads
Out of the kindness of my heart I will be donating smallpox blankets to the NYPD even if they don’t return Manhattan
will monkeypox work as a substitute
maybe some quokkapox blankets for good measure
“their ancestors”
The first Jews to move to Palestine were European Jews, they can’t use the “our ancestors” card.
Dude, jews have been living in israel all throughout history. They’ve been forcefully expelled from the country by the various empires which have conquered it but there has always been a jewish presence in the land. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel
The fallacy of this never ending debate is kinda displayed when there’s stories in the bible where God tells the Jews to displace the Canaanites and take their land.
Can we just, not?
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When you say steal land and genocide people, are you referring to the survivors from the Holocaust granted part of the british controlled land called (by the british BTW and not the indigenous people) Palestine? Those folks who we’re then immediately set upon by the arabic folk living in said land?
And there wasn’t a problem until the Europeans came and decided to fuck the place up.
See my reply to someone else, the Jews that moved to Israel after WW2 were Jews of European origin.
“Always” when semitic monotheism didn’t exist before the 6th century BCE? When do you think the world was created?
I don’t understand. They’re talking about Biblical era ancestors
DNA tests show that their ancestors mostly have the same markers found in southern Italian or Sicilian populations.
If a Japanese converts to Judaism, can they claim that their ancestors used to live in Israel? Well, the same logic applies to the European Jews that moved to Israel. They then convinced Jews that are actual descendants of the Levant populations to move to Israel with them, but the first settlers didn’t have Israeli ancestors, or didn’t have more of them than any other Joe Schmo from Southern Italy
Can you provide some sources I can use for explaining that to others?
Check out some history. It’s sort of obvious at its face when these white people claim to be from the middle east.
Judaism is - mostly - not a religion of conversion, that’s why it’s always complicated to separate the religious aspect from the ethnic side when talking about ‘Jews’.
Even if the ancestry is muddled in millennia of mixing with other local populations, I suppose most Jews can still claim that they descend from Israeli ancestors at some point, and it makes sense.
Actually Judaism is a religion of conversion since ancient times and to this day.
Compared to other religions, conversion to Judaism is quite complex and sometimes not allowed at all. The proselyte culture is a lot less developed than for other monotheistic religions.
Yet the Edomites were forcefully converted to Judaism in the 2nd century BCE https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-edomites
It is a religion with converts even if they are pickier about who is converted, and being the oldest of the Abrahamic religions its converts go back millennia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_converts_to_Judaism
with modern converts even stirring debate over their right to “return”: https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2013-02-19/ty-article/.premium/peruvian-converts-denied-aliyah/0000017f-f79e-d887-a7ff-fffea6480000
By this logic anyone can claim their right to seize African land
Or understand that remote ancestry doesn’t necessarily give you a right to some land
Ding ding ding! Right answer!
Although I’ll be the first to admit that what happened to first Nations and indigenous populations during modern colonization is completely unfair and the reservations system is completely broken and it’s recent enough that it’s perfectly fair for them to fight it, but claiming you’re owed a piece of land because your ancestors (allegedly) got kicked out millennias ago? Nah.
At least they have a reservation system.
Native Americans south of the us-mexico border stop being native Americans once they move out of the ejidos (aka communal community and the closest thing to a reservation in Mexico) and the ultra fine gradient that separates a Mexican from a native American is too fine for the American and Canadian systems to handle.
It’s especially galling in my situation because DNA says I’m 75% native American but I didn’t qualify under the American system (Canadians have a similar system) which means I can never access to the healthcare, education, and housing aid due to the simple fact that Americans genocides the people I descend from them out of existence on the American side the border; but left them mostly alone on the Mexican side of the border.
Yeah, I’d be inclined to agree with your last point too. Especially when you consider the Holocaust, and how the Jews were forced to relocate or die. It’s like what do you want them to do in that situation.
It’s like what do you want them to do in that situation.
I want them not to steal the land and genocide the people who are completely unconnected to the holocaust. Zionism was a form of fascism before WW2. It’s always been the plan to rob palestine (apart from when they wanted argentina, etc.).
Are you aware of the history of the state of Israel beyond what affirms a bias? The modern state of Israel was formed after Jews around the world started purchasing land in modern day Israel. 28% of Israel was purchased this way, and that’s most of the land the original waves moved to. Arab states surrounding that 28% had a huge issue with Jews existing in that space considering every one of those nations had genocide the Jews from their borders and even aligned with Hitler during WW2 (including the Palestinians, who allied with Hitler and whose leaders were eventually sent into exile by the British for doing so).
So, because the Arab states already had designs on the area of Palestine (they were going to annex once the British left), and they couldn’t tolerate Jews existing in the area… The Arab nations attacked. And lost, soundly. And Israel grew much, much larger. Israel seized more land by fighting off a war than anywhere else. That’s what happens when countries lose wars of aggression which they start; they lose territory. That’s what Ukraine is doing to Russia right now and they’d be foolish to ever give it back.
But sometimes they do give some or all land back. Which Israel did. They gave a lot of the land back in exchange for peace.
There’s no perfect entity in the world, and definitely not one in the Middle East. But please, spare us the Boogeyman one sided tales. The Jews fought for Israel so adamantly because they were exterminated from the region long before any fascist rose to power in Germany. They were forced out into diaspora several times, too. It’s all complicated and unfair and it isn’t as simple as Jews = European and don’t belong there.
Palestinians need to bite the bullet. There are generations of people born there now and Arab states are not going to exterminate them again. So a two state solution is what they better seek unless they want to lose it all with their constant aggression. Is it ideal? No. Would it secure an actual state and begin the process of normalization? Maybe. But first they need to purge terrorists from their leadership. And that’s the real stickler considering that shit runs deep in many Arab Nation governments. The two are intertwined just like emergency companies are in the west.
Fair enough. However, i don’t know about Zionism being fascism. It’s simply Israeli nationalism. Sure, there are a few far right Zionists, but they are in the minority.
I suppose most Jews can still claim that they descend from Israeli ancestors at some point, and it makes sense.
Just like christians, muslims, and probably the majority of people on the planet. But most convincingly the palestinians who continuously inhabited that land throughout history.
A unified and stable middle east would be and would have been a global superpower with the ability to influence independent control over major global trade routes and energy supply.
This is why the Israel is and has been imperative to U.S. foreign policy.
Money, guns and oil baaaabbbbyyy. Everything else is propaganda and distractions
Thanks, Dr. Rockzo!
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Yet Jews and Muslims lived in relative peace with each other in Jerusalem for long periods of time. They don’t have to fight. The fighting mostly comes to them. Anyone claiming it’s because the religions must fight is lying or mislead. I don’t know which you are, if that’s what you’re implying.
They did before Europeans took over the area post ww1
Far less inter-secular conflicts there before the WW1 promise of not dividing the region up amongst European empires was broken.
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Peace and harmony ?
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The jewish people have never wholly owned that area. Persians, Arabs, and many other races have also always lived there. It’s literally in the bible.
The bible that has how many version and retellings?
If you’re using the old testament to say they lived there then you cannot ignore the old testament saying other people lived there too.
I think you misunderstand. I’m saying the bible is a shit piece of cobbles together fairy tales, ramblings, sheep herder narrations, and hallucinations that has been rewritten and retold in so many different versions that is serves little to no historical evidence. You might as well be born in 4000 and basing your historical knowledge on winnie the pooh to recount what happened in 2000.
They genocided the Canaanites in all of them.
There is historical/archaeological/genetic evidence.
That was how they stole that land in the first place. By murdering every man, woman, child, and animal in the land.
Genocide of the canaanites is definitely in the Bible but possibly/probably didn’t happen as much as the Bible says. I’m sure there were times when whole cities were put to the sword but a lot of the stories in the Bible seem more like they were made up later as a way of claiming racial purity. It made it so the Hebrews could say “there’s no way we’re mixed with canaanites cuz we killed all the canaanites”
Also remember that the bronze age Jews were not at all special among the tribes of the area, their story about themselves is aggrandizing fiction that all the tribes did, it’s just the Jews’ stories survived and became popular
Also bronze age. Those that left left so long ago, the only right they have to the place is military might and the legal right given based on lobbying and the racism of the law makers in question.
Iron age, the Hebrew age of myth was set during the bronze age and in the immediate period of the bronze age collapse. Moses was bronze age, david was post bronze age collapse, the first diaspora was during the early Iron age, and the second diaspora was during antiquity.
Sorry if im being anal about it but one of the few good things about the old testament is that it tracks the evolution from bronze to iron pretty well, also Cyrus the great works as a solid historical reference point. But yeah there was about 700 years between the end of the bronze age and the end of the first diaspora, and about a thousand years to the second diaspora. For reference the Roman empire still existed seven hundred years ago.
Thanks, I’m not great on biblical history, so corrections and detail are welcome
Oh I aint either, but certain groups and events mentioned work as solid reference points. The Philistines were most like Bronze age Greek settlers set up by the Egyptians to work as a march for example. I just know a lot about the Bronze age collapse and the Bronze age. Also when I say set during its in the same way Red dead 2 is set during the late 1800s, Moses at best is the faint memory of a legendary story that was mythologized similar to King Arthur.
Over 80% of the population of Israel was born in Israel. If you want them to leave then you’re talking about ethnic cleansing, not decolonization.
So you’re saying the people in Gaza have to pull a reverse uno?
Your statistic is wrong 80% of the Jewish population were born there. Jews are 73% of the population at 7.2 million which means 1.44 million weren’t born there. It isn’t about leaving or kicking people out. It is about the Israeli government was founded on false pretenses, ethnic cleansing and genocide. They owe reparations to the people who lived their before. The nation shouldn’t be Israel and shouldn’t be an ethno-state (all ethno-states are bad) it should have been Palestinian and every one should live their peacefully like they have before
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1500s until around 1947. The people of different religions lived decently peacefully amongst themselves despite all the people trying to rule them it wasn’t until the zionists wanted the region to be Israel rather than Palestinian that all this ethno cleansing and genocide began. There was riots against the government or other nations ruling them but wasn’t civil unrest. The bloodshed over the last 80 years or so is because Zionists want to create an ethno-state called Israel.
Don’t I deserve to seize my childhood home, or the one I sold last week? no anti-semitic replies please.
Lol I thought this was a Mormon meme at first
Urim and thummim pilled
Linus Torvalds - ban Israel developers from linux
Oh, shit, the Mossad would absolutely do that, huh
Israel isn’t knee deep in an information war against the US and Europe, is it? The ban didn’t happen because of the war against Ukraine. It happened because of the ongoing cyber war against democracy.
Israel doesn’t currently have sanctions pending against them that the Finnish government has a vested interest to enforce.
They should, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t believe Linus’ decision is rooted in politics - they’d have to vet each contribution anyway.
Israel isn’t knee deep in an information war against the US and Europe, is it?
Um, isn’t it? If anything, they are worse than Russia on this count.
Absolutely not. Russia’s propaganda efforts are unparalleled. They directly or indirectly fund many authoritarian movements across the globe and systematically spam social media with false information.
Dude, be fuqin real.
Oh snap! Gottem!!!
In addition to the first Israeli migrants being Europeans, they displaced the actual indigenous population that was native to the land. The Muslim and Christian populations are mostly descendents from ancient Israelis that converted.
Israel is basically just the US, which is why they’re such strong allies. They have the same roots.
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We’re talking about the first migrants to Israel. Indigenous Jewish people didn’t migrate to Israel, did they?
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The region has been a site of religious, not ethnic, conflict. Jews that converted to Islam were able to stay in the Caliphate, the idea that all ethnic Jews were expelled is a myth. There was a lot of emigration, but the truth is that many of the Muslim Palestinians today are descendants of ancient Jewish people.
Claiming that Palestinians are just invaders that stole Jewish land is bad history.
they displaced the actual indigenous population that was native to the land.
They also sterilized a bunch of Ethiopian and Mizrahi Jews, on the grounds that these non-European ethinic cohorts were having too many kids.
Incidentally, Israel government has been grappling with a big childlessness crisis which threatens to tank their Jewish population.
One big reason for the genocide in Gaza (which has been in effect since 2006, but recently hit a fevered pitch) is that - despite their best efforts - the Israeli government has failed to neuter the Palestinian population growth rate.
So much of Israeli policy boils down to white nationalist eugenics.
Source (on the first bit in particular)? I mean, that’s easy to believe, given the behaviour of other European colonists in other places, but also not the kind of thing I’d want to claim without references.
The things to look up are Beta Israel (a lost tribe who were discovered in Ethiopia) and Operation Solomon (how they wound up in Israel). From there, you might find some answers from Israeli sources or elsewhere. I’ve similarly heard this assertion/rumour that the women of Beta Israel were sterilised after their incredible discovery and rescue, but haven’t seen authoritative sources for either side. Still, this should be an interesting rabbit hole to go down.
According to a fact check article, Israel investigated themselves by such methods as not interviewing any of the victims, after which Israel found that Israel had done nothing wrong: https://thedispatch.com/article/assessing-claims-that-ethiopian-immigrants-to-israel-received-birth-control-shots-without-consent/ If they didn’t want to look suspicious as hell, then they sure failed.
Your article was from 2012. In 2013 the Israeli Ministry of Health ordered gynaecologists to stop the Depo Provera treatments if the patients did not understand what treatment they were getting. This also gets touched on in the fact check.
What the fact check doesn’t mention is that the minister of health at that time was apparently a white supremacist: < Last year, the Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who also holds the health portfolio, warned that illegal immigrants from Africa “threaten our existence as a Jewish and democratic state”. > https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-gave-birth-control-to-ethiopian-jews-without-their-consent-8468800.html
Because of the testimonies, because of Netanyahu and because Israel refuses a thorough independent investigation, I suspect that this forced sterilization campaign really happened.
Someone last time this came up linked to a report, I think from Hareetz, into an Israeli government investigation that did indeed find that Beta Israeli women Were sterilised without consent en mass.
Don’t have a link handy, but that should be enough to dig it up.
