Fuck man, how did we get here?
I know how we go here but this timeline seems so quick.
Conservative wanted revenge or whatever it is.
Buy a gun. Train.
Get connected with others. Make sure they get armed. Train with them.
Ya dude. It’s easy to say. Military has been training everyday for quite a long time with fully automatics
Asymmetrical urban warfare is death for all. The last few decades have shown us this.
I keep seeing this advice but honestly I’d rather spend years in a El Salavadorean prison wrongly convicted with the hope of being freed than die immediately in a hail of bullets, or be rightfully imprisoned for life for killing a cop.
I mean, if by “years” you mean less than a year, killed, and buried in a mass grave in El Salvador than sure.
This is in comparison to getting in a firefight with the police? I’m sorry, but yes, I’d rather take my chances. Shooting at the police is, even if the odds are close, more likely to get you killed.
You’d change your mind on this while you go through torture
You don’t come out alive from those prisons and it’s gonna hurt more than bullets
The official stance is that nobody will ever get out of that prison alive. Literally. It’s one very specific prison, and it’s reduced El Salvador’s violent crime rate to damn near zero because of how fucked up that prison is, and how little due process you’ll receive if you even just get caught having gang tattoos. They don’t need to connect you to any specific crime.
You’ll share the cell with like 40 other dudes, and you all share one communal water barrel and one communal shit pit. The food is specifically designed to not be nutritious enough to sustain any muscle mass. You’ll wish for death in there, but you can’t even commit suicide by another inmate. Even suicide by guard is hard to pull off.
I’d honestly take the bullet over CECOT.
You can imagine being freed from a concentration camp but can’t imagine successful community defense.
Cops don’t want to die in a hail of bullets either. There are more of us than them.
It’s purely a numbers thing. You shoot at a cop and you die. You go in a concentration camp and you might die. Even if it’s very likely, just personally speaking, I’d take that over certain death.
The important part is to not be the only person with the gun around. Personal defence won’t do much but community defense might.
But seriously. Nobody is coming back from El Salvador. If ICE comes for you you might as well take one with you.
I really don’t think we’re clearly thinking this through. I know my next door neighbor, but if the guy three doors down has a circle of cops outside a) I might not even know depending on the amount of noise, b) I’m not going to go shooting cops in the back if I just see them.
And when does this start? Have you shot a cop yet? Are you planning shooting cops today? Tomorrow? Next month? In 6 months?
I dont buy it.
I don’t think anyone is coming out of El Salvador. And I think if I did there is an excellent chance if I did survive it, I will wish I had been killed instead. I don’t think they have women’s prisons down there and if they did I would 100% be sent to the men’s. I used to learn about the Holocaust and wonder “why didn’t the Jews fight back?” And the truth is that some of them did, but most did not they didn’t have access to guns and they just hoped they would get through it.
When school kids are learning about the American Holocaust I don’t want to be one of the victims that kids wonder “why didn’t the trans Americans fight back?”
ICE needs to be resisted at every level. By Congress, by the states, by cities, and by individuals. I only have discretion over myself. I don’t want to shoot anybody, but I don’t want to die in a mass grave in Cuba or El Salvador either.
Will it work? Probably not. Am I talking tough on the internet? I hope I never find out the answer to that. But I know that if Americans decide to stop ICE as a group we could, even if Congress and the courts and so on are compromised.
The concept that “if jews had guns” the holocaust wouldn’t have happened was deliberate inflammatory rhetoric and propaganda from the NRA and US right wing talk radio (Rush Limbaugh et al) and is not based in fact or truth, and only arose in the 1990s as a last ditch attempt to prevent (American) gun control laws.
Intellectually and philosophically the problem with the argument is that you are imagining an entirely fictional past (Jews having guns in the Weimar Republic) and claiming that the imagined fantasy past proves that the real history and present would have successfully been altered. It would be as logical to claim that if Jews had dynamite, or chainsaws, or wore plate armor, or carried a magical talisman, or memorized a specific poem they could have prevented the holocaust. All of which, including guns, is extremely improbable at best.
And so is the case here. I asked another commenter when they expected to start killing cops, and how many they expect to kill. No reply. I’m not telling you or recommending you do it, I just find it interesting that everyone telling me to kill cops on sight isn’t doing it themselves.
You pivot to “we need to stop ICE” but I don’t want to lose the focus of this discussion which was suggesting that I open fire on police officers on sight as a solution to this political problem.
It’s OK to not want to harm another person. Another thing that may be more important is to prepare yourself to handle some intense questioning along with threats of winding up in a place like that (if you think your chances are better in there). I’m not judging you but don’t be a rat
Some things are worse than death and can be sustained without any form of honesty or due process right here in the United States
Death is far from the worst thing that can happen to someone. We all must walk with the reaper some day. I would much rather die on my feet than live on my knees. CECOT is not living, it is Hell. I would infanetly prefer to go to Valhalla than CECOT.
What if I told you it won’t be very many years, and it’ll also be the rest of your life?
So there’s a dock at your door today and you peep through the window and you see four cops, you just start blasting? I don’t buy it.
Isn’t this EXACTLY what that orange windbag was saying other countries do to the US? It’s always projection with these assholes.
This is getting out of hand
England 2.0
In a sane country people would be ripping the piping from their walls to use as weapons against a regime like this. Instead most people just don’t notice or don’t care. I actually don’t see a future for my country anymore…
I haven’t seen a future for this country for a while now
I was hopeful that after 2020 we had learned our lesson but I was gravely mistaken…
Sadly we have to watch this dumpster fire go on while either planning to pick up the pieces once it’s over or you make a run for the border in hopes of saving yourself
So that’s how he’s going to make Mexico pay for a border wall!
I’m not gonna let myself be bullied out of my home by God’s biggest losers. I’m in a blue state so I’ll be okay for now. I’m also armed so I’ll be okay if or when shit hits the fan. I dont blame people who do leave but for me that’s just not in the cards.
I’m torn between wanting to stay and restore our country, and making sure my kids aren’t growing up in a place with a hamstrung education system, poor medical care, and a society increasingly steeped in hatred.
We’re trying to make sure we can keep our options open for them.
I don’t live in a blue state sadly, I can’t trust myself with a weapon because I know what would happen if I had one. So for me, I have to consider leaving everything behind just to be safe
And that’s perfectly okay. I envy you in a way. I’m too stubborn to give in to these fucking geeks and it could very well be my downfall in the coming years. I also have friends and family who can’t or don’t want to leave so if they’re staying then I’m staying. I also love my home city of Chicago too much to just abandon it lol.
2020 was the socially constructed preparation for this.
To be fair, organizing is tough and the United States is fucking big.
That said yeah more people should be mad.
is this an option against the militarised police?
No. It is not weapons that will be effective, but tactics. I think the closest analogue would be the IRA, or any insurgency against the US in the middle east for more recent examples.
I hear this all over Lemmy. So which improvised weapons have you crafted to oppose this regime? It’s like you expect the rest of us to do it. Give your nutsack a tug and lead on.
So what are you doing as an American?
You expect the rest of the world to act for you, while you sit back and disparage people talking about a solution.
It seems that I must repeat this to non-Americans until the heat-death of the universe:
To attempt to overthrow a government by force that has, at its disposal, swathes of 5th generation multirole fighter aircraft, drones with Hellfire missiles, and an army of sycophants more than willing to gun down their brother and sister citizens is a fool’s errand for suicidal rubes.
Wildcat Strikes are de wei.
It seems Americas love fascism on their shores and refuse to fight it.
You are not fighting the military, you are fighting a few thousand rich old fucks with names and addresses.
I’m not asking for shit, 'cause I know none of you can do a damn thing.
Yeah because I’m not in your country, you are, and your inaction is allowing innocent people to suffer.
Look, I’m not going to take up arms against the government. Not going to happen.
You want people to invade state houses? What’s the goal here?
My Senators haven’t done shit to slow the administration down and I have a feeling they will pay for it. Bennet wants to be Governor but we can primary him. Hickenlooper is just as feckless as ever and I’ll try to primary him again too.
My Representative has been vocal about the administration and has been pointing affected constituents to various resources to help them. Not much else they can do in the House right now.
The goal is overthrowing fascism, or at the least crippling it into inaction. Taking out leadership achieves that.
Do not delude yourself that you’re going to win this at the polls, there will be no fair election to win. Trump has free rein to do as he pleases.
Well, this would be a noble start: Guerilla Shotgun
I suppose one could start hoarding glass bottles and gasoline/styrofoam gel.
I’ve done neither of those things, but I have read Mila 18 a bunch of times, so I guess there’s that. Oh, and I do have at least one board with a nail sticking out of it somewhere behind the shed.
Why improvise? I can walk into a store and leave with a rifle and armor piercing rounds
So which improvised weapons have you crafted to oppose this regime?
I’d say but I don’t want a visit from the alphabet boys
Sane take. Keep your head low and wait.
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I think the “smartest” thing the administration is doing is not giving us local targets in our cities. Much as I hate the local police, they aren’t complicit by default until it happens here. Once there are clearer local targets, you’ll see far more action.
~people aren’t doing anything~
literally millions of Americans organizing nationwide protests and resistance events, uniting with friends and co-workers to strategize, with larger and larger turnouts with each passing week…
🤔🤔🤔
Which is not nothing but there’s a point there.
Oooh are they holding signs?
First you organize millions across the country in protests. This is no small feat. Once you see you have the numbers, you organize a strike.
People would know this if they attended. It’s discussed often.
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Be the example then.
To attempt to overthrow a government by force that has, at its disposal, 5th generation multirole fighter aircraft, drones with Hellfire missiles, and an army of sycophants more than willing to gun down their brother and sister citizens is a fool’s errand for suicidal rubes.
Wildcat Strikes are de wei.
The military is not protecting them in their homes, on the way to their car, at a public event.
Lone wolf attacks on key Republican figures are the way.
When people rise up without a clear plan or shared vision, they often end up reinforcing the very system they’re trying to challenge. That’s because the people in power already control the tools that shape our thinking—like the media, schools, and pop culture.
If we want real change, we need more than just passion. We need a shared understanding of what kind of world we’re trying to build. Otherwise, we risk repeating the same mistakes and rebuilding the same broken system in a different costume.
Capitalist ideas have had centuries to take root and evolve. They’ve got a head start and powerful platforms to keep spreading—TV, textbooks, social media, movies, everything. To challenge that, we need a complete shift in how we think about power, community, and freedom.
So here’s the big question: Is this shift happening? Can we see it in the protests, mutual aid networks, labor strikes, and grassroots organizing across the country?
If we believe it’s possible, then now’s the time to act—together, intentionally, and with clarity. Let’s build a new vision of society—one not handed down by the powerful, but created by us. Start by asking: What do you really want the future to look like? And who’s with you in building it?
An entirely spontaneous movement will end up reproducing the dominant ideology in a given society, because the dominant class has the means at its disposal to propagate and reproduce the dominant ideology.
So a revolutionary movement must know in advance what its revolutionary theory is; it must be united around a particular vision of society, a particular theory of revolutionary change, or it will simply reproduce the society that it is acting against.
Ideas that support capitalism have been around much longer than alternative ones, are more refined, and have way more tools to spread themselves—like the media, schools, and culture. A drastic change in structural thought is necessary.
Where is the evidence that this change in structural thought is actually occurring in the United States? How is this present in the dissent that has manifested thus far?
It’s baseball season boiiii. Also American idol 34 is starting too. And Kendrick Lamar dropped a new banger! The new iPhone came out not long ago too. Mcdonalds mcrib is back!!! I just rewatched Modern Family for the second time even though it’s 100% unrelatable to any honest living person that didn’t fuck lives over to become upper middle class!
How does this not anger the domestic prison industrial complex?
It’s not actually that powerful. Private prisons are all at the state level, and only some states.
They are opportunistic, not monopolistic, and the political pushback reversed the trend toward privatisation in most of the country.
Private prisons are a stain on our national character, they need to be shut down. but we have bigger shit to worry about right now.
We utilize them before people are sent to cecot so they’re still happy…
This will also trigger a break down in law … it’s basically capital punishment … break the law and you’re out.
So to many people who see the writing on the wall … if you’re going to be punished severely, why not do as much as possible while you can before you’re ejected … or ride the lawbreaking for as long as you can until you get caught because you’re screwed anyway
America is going down in flames
You don’t even have to break the law.
I was thinking of those poor young men and women who are already at the bottom of society and have no chance. I’m Indigenous Canadian so I know what it feels like to be at the bottom of the pile and I’ve lived with and know many young men and women who faced a life of prosecution. At one point you lose hope and give up and realize that no matter what you do, you’re going to get punished. Most people have a survival instinct that kicks in and says hang on and keep hoping for something. But I’ve also seen people lose hope and then just go out in a blaze of glory and kill and destroy as much as they can on their way out.
This is why capital punishment of any kind doesn’t work … once you take away people’s hope, then they become reckless and give up on following any social norms or laws.
Capital punishment can’t work because once you know you have a death sentence on you, what else can they do to you? Kill you twice?
I guess we already filled up all of the for profit prisons in The Land of the Free.
He *IS" a convicted, homegrown, American criminal himself! Literally.
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Sure, the dems deserve it just like a woman deserves what she gets for wearing that revealing dress in that bar, right? Because that’s what you are doing. Blaming the victims.
Instead of blaming the Republican party and people who didn’t vote, you make fun of the only people who tried to stop them. Which tells us all exactly the type of person you are.
Someone who would rather make fun of “THE DEMS” instead of Trump and the Republican party. You’re the problem, not “the dems”.
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Please build that wall so you stay where you are
Does anyone else feel so un-motivated at work ever since Trump became president? I can’t sleep sometimes with the anxiety. I don’t even want to try to be anything in this American society anymore if it means a criminal can be President. What’s the point? Bad always wins. Good always suffers.
My depression has depression at this point.
2020 i woke up every morning expecting to see a mushroom cloud over the nearest city. Every. Single. Morning.
Be expensive as hell
And of course we will never see these people again. This is so blatently illegal its fucking mind blowing.
47 doesn’t GaF. He’s already ignoring UNANIMOUS scotus rulings. The law has failed. Nobody in power is willing to enforce anything.
Where and when do we meet to stop this bullshit?
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on April 19th there will be protests nationwide in every city.
I plan to be at the one where I live, with as many people as I can get to come with me. attending is the bare minimum i can do, but until we collectively get up enough courage for large scale civil disobedience, simple protests are a starting point to get you connected with local allies and movements.
attending is the bare minimum i can do, but until we collectively get up enough courage for large scale civil disobedience, simple protests are a starting point to get you connected with local allies and movements.
Simple protesting are not a starting point. Using protests to agitate and sell your community on more radical action is a starting point. I’m not saying you’re like that, but many people think that protesting is enough or the most they can do, or that they just need to “put pressure on their representatives” or win the midterms. Those people are, in fact, not even at the starting line. The idea of “this isn’t enough, but it’s a good start” is dangerous because it invites inaction with the assumption that action that is “enough” will happen eventually. It won’t; you need to make it happen. Many, if not most, in this nascent resistance movement don’t understand the urgency of the situation or the scale of action necessary to fix it and will have to be dragged by people like you to effective resistance.
If you’re wondering why I keep saying you and not we, it’s because I’m armchair strategizing/agitating from the other side of the world.
Join your local indivisible group.
On voting day months ago.
Everywhere, continuously. https://www.fiftyfifty.one/ is a good start. Find your local org, meet the people, make connections.
SRA might be an option if you think future direct action might be necessary.
I was looking at states guard and wondering if blue states should be bolstering up their organized armed militias. State guard, as opposed to national guard, cannot be called upon by the federal government and are solely under the direction of the state governors.
One big downside, is many of the state guardsman are members of the national guard as well, as being in the state guard does not preclude you from the national military. There seems to be a lot of training from the national guard to the state guard.
Just meeting won’t stop it. Spread within your community the idea of a general strike. Given Americans’ poor showing so far it will be necessary.